Misogyny as Satire

I was going to post this in the game design forum, but I thought it might be safer to post here.

I had an idea for a game in which I would just cut loose and pull out all the stops on over-the-top characters/caricatures. It was going to be called "Bruce Broman and the Zombie Apocalypse".

Gameplay and mechanics aside, my plan was to make the main character (Bruce) a ridiculously chauvinistic "man's man". He drinks beer, drives a loud, gas-guzzling car, objectifies women and beats zombies with club. The end goal, of course, is to explore far enough into the city to find the last, large-breasted blonde to repopulate the earth.

Now, as I have a pile of work on my plate, I have no real intention of actually making this game at the moment, but I thought the premise would make for interesting discussion.

Is the character awful and reprehensible? Of course, but that's the point. It's meant to be satire. It's not meant to condone, but rather poke fun of these crazy stereotypes, and expose them for what they are. Laughable.

What do you think? Would you support something like that, or would you be horribly offended by it's very concept?

 

I like satire in all its forms. If it upsets some humorless human appearing artifact..well chuck 'em if they can't take some folks.

 

I wouldn't be interesting in playing it, nor would I think its funny or clever. Its not going to enlighten any chauvinists or expose some issue, so I don't think it would be effective as satirical point-making (if that's what you were going for). You'd have to have some reasonable characters that establish you are in fact making fun of it, or else chauvinists might just think its really great. I think you'd do more good by simply making a not sexist game, rather than making an overtly sexist one.

 

So do nothing, or make a game that directly combats sexism in a serious way? You must be fun at parties.

I would like to point out that there are several forms of entertainment that do exactly this (most commonly, television shows), but I suspect you don't watch comedy.

 

See note about humorless humans. I also can't stand PC. And so what if some misogynist enjoys it. One woman's misogynist is another man's man. Same with the reverse of the misopenists (or whatever man bashers are called.) So what if someone takes the joke seriously. With good writing it could break you up laughing. They key would be the writing and caricatures.

 

Were you asking what people thought so you could attack the first person who didn't think it was a good idea? I wasn't trying to put you down, I just don't think this idea would be effective at what you say you're wanting to do. Clearly you think otherwise. That's fine! I thought you started the thread because you were curious about other opinions on it.

 

I wasn't meaning to attack you. Obviously, I'm a cynical and satirical person myself.

My point was that there are several television shows that already do exactly this (albeit, not often about sexism). For instance, Southpark, or The Colbert Report. They take the simple stupidity of everyday life that people don't otherwise think about, and they exaggerate it to make it obvious just how ridiculous it is.

Again, I apologize, I didn't mean to offend you.

 

Nothing wrong with using stereotypes to make fun of life. Who cares if you make any dent in sexist attitudes. That shouldn't even be on your list of goals for the game. Make a game that fun and entertaining, and let society make what they will from it.

Offending people is a pretty solid marketing strategy. First I heard of GTA was a front page newspaper headline along the lines of "Catholic church slams new video game". The article included a brief description if the game. You can't buy that sort of exposure.

 

That's true. Perhaps it could work. Though, I think a show like South Park is more effective at being funny than, for instance, helping to stop gay bashing or something like that, but if there was some data showing otherwise I'd change my mind. I do agree with what @BoredMormon said. I think its controversy could help it get noticed, and I certainly don't think a game like that will reinforce sexism, in the same way it wouldn't dispel it. But if dispelling sexist attitudes is your primary goal, I still think you'd be better off doing something else.

 

This is true. A game aimed at dispelling sexism would be better if starting with sexist characters, and forcing them to change heir attitudes to survive. Or watching them suffer as their attitudes don't adjust. You need to show difference attitudes and let them contrast. And you need to show how these attitudes influence the world around us.

Definitely not a weekend hobby project.

 

Of course. And changing the way people think certainly wasn't my intention when I came up with the idea. It was simply to make a goofy, over-the-top game that bloated these stereotypes to comical levels.

 

You've certainly proven that some people will be offended by it.

 

Make the NPC enemies as hive minded social justice warriors and amp up their rhetoric to parody levels for an all around bash up.

 

http://www.desura.com/games/holy-avatar-vs-maidens-of-the-dead

It's like rule 34 applied to games: if you can imagine it, there is a game of it.

And no, Holy Avatar wasn't received particularly well nor did it bring society into an era of new-found enlightenment.

Actually, khanstruct, there are so many examples of games that more or less match your description, both played straight and for laughs, that I wonder this discussion if not ignorance isn't just flamebait.

 

It just seems like a celebration of what already exists. There is no "risk" or any challenge to the status quo, so it's not really satire. Satire generally has some ironic twist or clever commentary about society. Your idea just seems like more of what's already out there.

How about a RACIST game where you are a stereotypical "racist white cop" and you only shoot minorities in the back. "Satire", or just really douche-y...?

Read up on the concept of "punching up, not down":

 

Actually, reading the reviews of that game, it seems the concept and humor was very well received. Its negative rating seems to come from the fact that it was buggy and crashed a lot. (So you may want to hold off on your cries of ignorance and flamebait.)

Also, I already said that it wasn't my intention to "bring society into an era of new-found enlightenment. The point would be to have fun, rather than spend your day tiptoeing around whether or not you'll hurt someone's feelings.

 

Nameless Feminist A finds your idea incredibly offensive and will hate you forever if you go through with it. Nameless Feminist B feels that doing anything differently is incredible offensive and will hate you forever if you don't go through with it.

Pick a side

Also don't forget there's no pleasing some people.

Female protagonist with large breasts? --> Objectifying women
Female protagonist with small-medium breasts? --> masculinizing women

Fun fact, both of those quotes were said by the same feminist.

I'm pretty sure the police department already patented that training simulation.

On the other hand, I did have a game idea I'm too scared to make because I don't think my skin can stop a bullet. I had the idea for a game in which you play in a state & city with a very high rate of police brutality (like all of the executions you hear about in the news these days), and you are a vigilante sniper on the roof who has to shoot cops before they kill innocent civilians.

 

There you have it. The key is the success of a game is not measured by its subject but by its execution.

 

How about this stereotype? The perfect Stepford wife/girlfriend..she does whatever the guy wants, is sweet, compliant, emotional, and good. Her boyfriend/husband is stoic, condescending, superior and doesn't think his wife/girlfriend should work.

Oh wait, that really isn't funny is it?

 

Dangerous discussion, but... Reminds me of the case of "Y: The Last Man". Background for those not in the know: The concept of that comic ("graphic novel") is that the entire male population on Earth, safe one man and his male monkey, are wiped out. One commentator - don't remember who - after noting various reactions, summed it up with something along the lines of:

Imagine the opposite story: 3 billion men and one woman. That's obviously going to turn into a misogynist story of one woman as a victim of the 3 billion men. But since the story is about 3 billion women and one man, every single one of those 3 billion women are unavoidably victims of the male author.

 

I've been playing Duke Nukem since 1996 ... I would play it if the humor is good and I would not be offended. It has to be better than DNF's humor, though.

 

It's just... if you are going for satire... ok, you've stated your starting point now where is the satire? How can you "up" this so it is actually funny?

Here's a couple ideas that would actually be satire:

A monster runs for president. He hates all humans and vows that he will kill every last one of them. Americans hear his speeches and keep mis-interpreting them to be metaphors about the economy, immigration, independent states rights, etc. No matter how horrible he is, everyone loves him and thinks he will be a great president.... He wins by a landslide.

A grizzled toughguy hero tries to right wrongs and save puppies. Mean ol' femnesists keep shrieking how evil he is. He helps them and they think he is attacking. He saves puppies and they accuse him of animal abuse. He is really a sweet guy just looking for love, but everyone is so prejudiced they think he is a war monger. The humor of the game is he keeps doing good but everyone still thinks he is bad.

Misogynists finally get their way and murder every last woman on Earth. Now they are gay.

 

So Duke Nukem?

The big problem is parody tends to flop in games. It's the usual issues with comedy where it's easy for the joke to be a dead horse. Comedy needs pacing, the thing game designers have zero control of.

So Half-life 2?

 

It might be able to sell to reactionaries ie the gamer gates guy and MRAs and the femanazis might get upset over it. Or it might just fly under the radar. But apart from the blonde to repopulate the earth it sounds like evil dead and that sounds like a fun idea, although all the evil dead games were pretty bad (but if rocksteady did an evil dead game it would kickass)

 

What exactly is satirical about the idea? If it's a satire of gender stereotypes, then it could do a lot more to mock them.

If the purpose is indeed "to have fun, rather than spend your day tiptoeing around whether or not you'll hurt someone's feelings," then is the game a satire of people who care about hurting others' feelings? Or who care about gender stereotypes? If that's the case, I think it's a pretty regressive message.

If you don't perceive yourself as having a 'message' at all, then the game idea is a parody and not a satire. But the execution of that parody should expose characteristics of its subject in a fresh or unfamiliar way, which the idea currently doesn't. Few are going to play this game and think "ha, I never realized that the manly men and busty sex objects are exaggerated caricatures in the games I play!" because it's pretty obvious already, you know?

 

As I see it, the premise of a game is generally what defines the market for it. The game play - how good or bad it is - is what defines how successful the game is.

The story outlined above seems clearly aimed at the majority of young men. This audience won't find the premise of searching for one appealing woman in a world of zombies ridiculous, because the subtext is about their own condition of searching for a mate. The whole hero (or anti-hero) saving the beautiful woman from monsters is a hugely successful trope, because in a basic way it mirrors the reality of a person's quest for a mate.

The satire (or parody) element in your concept comes from the exaggeration of realities of masculinity, femininity, and the zombies represent an exaggeration of the unsuitable mates and rivals who are obstacles in the mating search.

I'm not sure where the strong misogyny implied by the title is supposed to come from. I think your statement about misogyny - being construed as you wanting to have misogyny - is what's drawing the negative comments. The premise as I see it is basically the same as "The Omega Man," a '70s movie about a biological zombie apocalypse and the lone surviving alpha male who eventually finds (spoiler!) a mate. It's just that you've got a more cartoonish, exaggerated, video game-y version.

 

Additionally...South Park. Do I have to go into any greater detail?

 

Writing and caricatures. BTW..great impression you have going on of a social justice warrior in this thread that would be useful for the NPC enemies in his satirical game

 

^^^^^^ Duke Nukem basically, yeah
Also, I wonder if you can actually go that far overboard to be regarded as satire, as a certain amount of what you have written about the stereotypization (is that a word?) of gender roles and sexualization of one or both genders is alread ypresent in... well, most modern media, I'd say

 

Correction, turns out they did buy that sort of exposure from a clever publicist.

 

Since that was the point of the post, glad you caught on.

 

Yeah. I am good at getting the gist of a gestalt

 

@Jither don't worry about the danger involved. Because of the mentality of the people involved, there is no 'safe' way to discuss such a thing. Given only two possible choices, A or B, you will be ridiculed for either choice... and by the same person. Though it would be best not to elaborate on a public forum no matter how related it is to the topic because that would get it closed within the hour

I like that they have continuity in newer episodes. It allows them to use an offensive joke more than once, draw horrible conclusions between horrible events and provide interactions between characters under the context of the aforementioned horrible events.

Like... Bill Cosby's moment on the couch with Taylor Swift during the holiday special.

 

You could make the character a feminist. You wouldn't
even need to make up anything to make it absurd. The movement has reached a stage, where it's indifferentiable
from satire.

 

As are men who fear feminists. That would be fantastic satire. Really, does Unity always have to fall this far at the end of any conversation about women? I hope Hippo closes this thread. I actually wonder if it was created because we hadn't had enough "we hate women" threads in a while.

 

In order to pull of a satire, you have to use the content to clearly highlight the absurdity and errors of a misogynist viewpoint. It's not enough to simply put a reprehensible character on screen. You also have to use that caricature to unambiguously mock and ridicule the point of view that it represents. Failing that, you are just producing a parody, of Duke-Nukem. And that's been done before.

If you have a mechanic in the game for drinking beer, you should have the character get progressively fatter and less attractive the more beer he drinks. Have his gut expand out into a beer belly, and have other characters begin looking at him with disgust when they first see him. That would be satirical.

 

You've overstepped the line by bringing in your own views ie mocking feminism. Feminists are women who want equality, so I ask that you don't bring personal opinion into this. I also ask that people stay on topic, as per the original post without dragging this into something S***ty. I'll be enforcing that. Thanks.

Haven't noticed this topic before the report. The OP was fine however (despite the misleading title) so it's understandable topics like this fall through.

The original premise of a primitive man is pretty much OK though providing it's not dragged into a man vs woman argument, which I'll nuke people for

The OP wasn't misogyny per se, but I do not think anything good will come of this thread.