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Unity Starter Kits, what do you want?!

Discussion in 'Editor & General Support' started by willgoldstone, May 18, 2017.

  1. jwvanderbeck

    jwvanderbeck

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    One thing I wanted to add here - Full game User Interfaces.

    I've been dealign with this recently for my own project and their is surprisingly little good information out there on building a proper real world game user interface. Sure there is a ton of stuff on individual windows or widgets, but that isn't a game. A real game is typically going to have multiple windows, with state and data being passed around and tracked, animations for opening and closing etc. And this gets even more complicated in "UI heavy" games like say tycoons, builders, etc.

    This would be a great topic for a starter kit, or a bonus from a starter ket for some type of UI heavy game like mentioned above.
     
    AbhishekRaj, Stardog and Gametyme like this.
  2. SoftwareGeezers

    SoftwareGeezers

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    An important plot point also is that the start kits should use best practice, so object pooling instead of GC heavy object creation and destruction. I also hope that Unity Future will have an object-pooling system by default because it's a must and everyone having to write their own is a bit of a waste. ;)
     
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  3. Peter77

    Peter77

    QA Jesus

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    Showcasing how someone could implement a big game world that the player can freely traverse, populated with lots of things (buildings, roads, trees, grass, etc), such as GTA 5 for example.

    It doesn't have to be that interactive. It should merely prove that Unity can be used for open-world games with seamless content streaming that doesn't cause hiccups in the game.

    I'd be interested to see what UT's best practices on this is. Many Unity games (Unity Awards winning games included) I played on my Xbox One fail at streaming in additional content without freezing the game.

    This is a very important feature to not ruin the game experience. Coming up with such Starter Kit would also allow Unity to improve any areas that don't fully support seamless open-world-streaming that yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  4. rapidrunner

    rapidrunner

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    Great idea to add kits, but they should go hand in hand with some good tutorials.

    As today; I lost count of the tutorials made for the most common game genre; while others are totally absent. Take the space sim genre...it was dead, then new games came out and now everyone loves them (even better, if procedurally generated); although you find virtually no tutorial for this genre, because it require a lots of efforts.

    But IF you make a kit; and add an awesome tutorial like a multi series; then you would kill 2 birds with one stone :) Put a 100-200 dollars price tag on the kit+ tutorial, even in that way it would be cheap, if you can make a solid base to build upon and make a great space sim game.
     
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  5. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    But what a spacesim kit would really had that is on the scope of their simple project? The only difficult part is the whole terrain system for planet to space transition ... Else it's just a transform through space ...
     
    Alverik likes this.
  6. QI

    QI

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    Starter kit ?
    Uhh,
    I never hear it before.
    May I ask where is it and how could I get it ?
     
  7. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    That's what's this thread is about, starter kit not complete kit
     
  8. lawsochi

    lawsochi

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    Oh yes we want Starter Kits...
    FPS+ open world (not big, 10х10 km. ;)), with the woods and meadows, mountain river and lake, with a rain and the sun, and AI, the simplest, stand, run, shoot...
    it... same it is so simple, the truth?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  9. John3D

    John3D

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    Feedback submitted. When are these Starter Kits going to be available? Thanks!
     
  10. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hi everyone, huge thanks for all of your contributions to this topic. We have assessed this and been speaking to teams also and are moving into production the next couple of weeks, aiming to release several by late september - possibly delivering some of them earlier than that one at a time on Asset store, look to this thread or the blog for more info on this soon.
     
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  11. Vampyr_Engel

    Vampyr_Engel

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    Yeah I would also like to see a starter tutorial on space simulation games especially planetary A.I which could enter and exit vehicles and where you could command the the a. i to attack a base on a spherical planet and also mining asteroids in space and mining planets., so Collector , Peon, Scavenger A.I could do the mining even the player could dig out holes underground for a base and you could fly space fighters and capital ships it would be good to have a tutorial to see how games like this are done and it doesn't all have to be applied to Science Fiction Space Games only

    Imagine a Dungeon Keeper style game in a Solar System like Earth or even Warcraft
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  12. Geoffc

    Geoffc

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    It would be good to have some starter kits out of the box for unity and it may be a good idea to investigate the possibility of arranging a licensing agreement with the developers already offering them in the asset store than writing new ones.

    Will the Unity team offer ongoing updates for these kit assets as Unity versions change or will it be just for the version of unity it was originally developed for?
     
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  13. Mince_AT_FC

    Mince_AT_FC

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    Unity Smashes Unreal Now!
    Love the way can add scripts to objects and Runs amazing on Mobile.



    -Mince@FoldingCircles-
     
  14. Fobok

    Fobok

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    I had the same thought. A space sim (my favourite genre) would make a great easy starter project. Now I'm getting into it... AI alone has me totally intimidated. And making the HUD function with targetting and a 3D radar... a kit would have been very nice.
     
  15. Xaon

    Xaon

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    Hi! I have two suggestions. And sorry for a chaos in the post.

    TL;DR;
    The best thing in Unity is it's just soo flexible. The worst thing in Unity it's just soo flexible.

    But first a lengthy backstory. Off topic, so skip it if you don't have time.

    What I see many starting indie devs don't want to jump into Unity for two reasons. First is lack of tutorials (good and oficial ones) about 3D modelling and texturing workflows (with shader tutorial on top of that) for actual artists. Friend of mine said that they switched from Untiy because they couldn't find artists that could work with Unity. If you can create tutorials showing how to create Adam Demo quality assets and scene _for artists_ and _without coder or spending time on undestandings how to code_ (writting shaders - different thing). There are great graphical features that no one knows how to use. For some the only source are 2 years old blog posts and - lets be honest - only Unity Nerds read them. There is a need to bluntly put some tutorials for artists and animators in Project section on https://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials .
    And also - many artists feel bad in comunities dominated by coders. Espetially juniors who are almost religious about their ability to code. It's just how it is.

    Second is that many starting indie dev see indie as a trampoline to get experience and get into AAA. So they want to learn something they assume could be worth in big titles. And this is most prominent for artists choosing in which engine they test their 3D textured and bone animated models. ReCore was a good step. I think that we need more of that but a little differenc this time.
    The systematic problem of and for Unity is that it's competition is older and started as AAA engines in the first place. That means other engine have veterans that worked on budged big enough to work themselfes through every bit and byte of those technologies while working on 50 to 200 people teams, on 2-4 year development cycle So they really know what they are doing. And those veterans educate youngters that need to learn fast. But those veterans don't know Unity and have no time and interest to learn the Unity.

    The solution - back to the actual topic.

    First - focus on standardization. There are many good frameworks on asset store but if you want to create a game that requires 2 or three of them you'll most likely end with 3 incompatibile object pooling solutions, 3 camera system, 3 inventory, 3 multiplayer, 3 input managers plus the features you actually care about. Some of those features has to be standarized (like object pooling, input, save systems) and somebody has to go and pitch to asset creators to use standarized solutions.

    Second - From my point of view, endless runner game kit, and any other of similar complexity, is useless. It's too simple to be worth doing. It's a tutorial grade project. Go out to big publishers, go to their CTOs and ask them what kind of frameworks would be worth creating (because - they will be the one who will hire people and they want to be sure that there are enough people that can work together, and if there are jobs in a tech, there will be interest in learning the tech). Again it's about standardization. What we need is Unity equivalent of Unreals Game Framework that almost any Unity developer will or at least should know in 2 or 3 years. Standard Assets was a good step forward and I think we need more of that. This time something that allows multiple save slots, recreating world state from save file without impacting level designers workflow in the process, runtime rebindable input, spawning player character in any arbitrary position at start with the option to change character to spawn - the "put player character prefab on scene" workflow is just bad.

    In the end - as far as small players can afford it, they will follow big names.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
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  16. neoshaman

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    I agree with everything above!
     
  17. Developah

    Developah

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    Unity needs a ton of things really. It's a bare bones game engine, honestly.
     
    KyleStank likes this.
  18. Alverik

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    I hope they really make one focusing on a complex character controller, the current examples are rather lacking, and a solid character controller (properly tied to animations) is one of the hardest, or most annoying things to make, which can usually get out of hand quite easily...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  19. Reanimate_L

    Reanimate_L

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    @willgoldstone regarding the FPS kit, can we get a proper sample on rendering the first person object in unity, ie the gun doesn't clip with environment mesh, receive/cast shadow, image effect support?

    Too much? :D
     
  20. Ausjoey

    Ausjoey

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    Gave my feedback, love the idea! :D
    Thanks for all the resources you've provided already!
     
  21. DDaddySupreme

    DDaddySupreme

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    Isn't this sort of already a thing with the example projects? They aren't complete games, but they'e got a lot of working parts that you can learn from.

    Also, I'm concerned about you guys releasing mostly complete games because of the whole asset flip thing. I love Unity as a software, but you guys really don't have the best reputation, and I don't want that to get worse.
     
  22. Rockwall33

    Rockwall33

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    I filled out the survey, I hope it works out!!! :D

    Cheers!
    NuclearRasberry
     
  23. RajMehra

    RajMehra

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    hi, i m from India , i wish to buy/rent Unity3d.. please Guide me
     
  24. neoshaman

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  25. Vaulcul

    Vaulcul

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    So... Not sure if this was an idea that was already thrown out there... But, I think the starter kits that I've seen are decent... But, I was thinking that instead of locking the person getting the starter kit into specific assets, give them the ability to pick the assets that they'd like out of a pre-picked list of asset authors along the lines of the type of starter kit that is desired/selected.

    This way, Unity isn't showing favoritism to just one asset developer, it may help a few of those developers that have really high quality assets that aren't well known get a bit of exposure, and it allows the end user to do their own research on what they want.

    I thought of this, as the starter kit that I saw for the 2D games included Corgi. I have no issue with Corgi, but other platformer toolkits such as Platformer Pro get the short end of the stick when this is done.

    Anyhow, that's my two cents on the matter.
     
  26. Alverik

    Alverik

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    Ummm... You are mistaking Starter Packs with Accelerator Packs. You get Accelerator packs when you buy an Unity plan/subscription. As you know, they are made of assorted paid assets. Starter packs on the other hand are barebones projects you can use to kickstart your game (since they are meant to have all the important basic functionality for a certain game genre already built-in). A good example of this can be found in Unreal. When you are about to create a project you'll be shown all the starter project types available (shooter, racing, platforming, etc). These can help you start or prototype a project quickly since you don't need to worry about redoing the basic mechanics every time. This last bit is one of the things that make them different from regular examples or tutorials, which are many times not easy to modify or reuse...
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  27. Vaulcul

    Vaulcul

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    @Alverik : Oops... I was totally misunderstanding this (though I still stand by my thoughts on the accelerator packs). Thank you for clarifying, though I have to say, there is a similarity to what they are trying to accomplish with both. I would imagine that the starter packs would de-value (if not only slightly) the accelerator packs, due to what they are attempting to accomplish with them. If pulled off correctly, I would imagine that the starter packs would force many asset store devs to re-work their assets to meet the standards set by the starter packs.

    That being the case... I can agree with the comments @Xaon made earlier, especially about standardization.
     
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  28. CPTHologram

    CPTHologram

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    Unity Starter Kits .........How about Unity doesn't add more crap until they learn how to keep up with the content they put out. Try updating the tutorials when you update your engine. There are tutorials out there on unity3d.com/learn that are for version 4. I love that you come out with new stuff all the time but you are doing a major injustice/disservice to the individuals that try to learn from scratch using the tools you provide. So I don't want to see any starter kits till you fix the tutorials you already have and test them to be 2017 compliant. Just my opinion.
     
    CharmingTroll likes this.
  29. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Hey Xaon thanks for this, I agree with a majority of what you're saying and it's stuff we talk about a lot. We're finding ways to satisfy a lot of the issues you outline here, but it's been a long road. I do take very much to heart your point about standardisation and I agree with you and will continue to work on stuff like this internally.
     
    behram likes this.
  30. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    We update and check out projects for each release.. but thanks for your opinion :D
     
  31. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Correct, Starter Kits and Accelerator packs are unrelated.

    Accelerator packs - sales bundle of asset store products for Unity Plus.
    Starter Kits - Unity projects to help you start making a game.
     
  32. Rockwall33

    Rockwall33

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    @willgoldstone out of curiosity, what starter kits are planned (if it's alright me asking)? Is it to early too tell? Or best that no information is given ATM?

    Cheers!!!
    NuclearRasberry
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  33. Moonjump

    Moonjump

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    I can see Starter Kits as being useful for beginners so that can mod a game before taking on the task of starting something from scratch.

    My current game has taken far too long, so when it is finally finished, I would like to test ideas in different genres, and having these as a head start would be brilliant.

    Hopefully each kit will have a level of complexity that suits the genre. It would be nice to see a few quick kits such as match-3 to start, then quick ones interspersed with more complex ones such as 4X.
     
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  34. Supergeek

    Supergeek

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    Yeah, it would be nice to have a current status posted somewhere. Would be nice to know what's coming up. Perhaps edit the first post to keep an updated roadmap.
     
  35. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    We are just wrapping the first one, a Tower Defence starter kit, we will push that to asset store and publish some learn articles when it's ready, expect several more to follow over the coming 6 months.
     
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  36. Rockwall33

    Rockwall33

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  37. CarterG81

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    One of the starter games should include a huge open world which is greater than Unity's floating point precision.

    That is a common problem for people in any game with a large world.

    I never considered this idea because it's usually the opposite - AAA soul crushing jobs causing ppl to run away to the Indie haven where they can finally achieve their dreams.

    To want to do it backwards is so strange to me. Wanting to leave the wonderful world of indie to get a soul crushing AAA job...wth?!
     
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  38. Tigersong

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    Just thought of this while I was scrolling through the thread: how 'bout a kit for making hacking games like Else.Heart.Break or Hacknet?
     
  39. Moonjump

    Moonjump

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    AAA is seen as the top of the pyramid, and so working there must be the peak of a career. It must be the dream job looking from the outside, it certainly was for me before I started working in the industry. I've worked in games companies large and small, and have generally found the smaller studios better places to work, but it depends much more on the individual company.

    Unity seemed to start chasing AAA development much more with 5, to the detriment of mobile. I hope some of the starter kits are mobile friendly (and really hope that experience makes them change their mind on depreciating the performance friendly legacy particle system, and giving more consideration in developing more mobile suitable stuff).
     
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  40. Baste

    Baste

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    From the PC/Console side, it seems like Unity's focusing on mobile. All of the new cool services that are supposed to make Pro valuable to people are designed for the mobile-space. Analytics is clearly targeted towards the f2p mobile market with the focus on funnels and session lengths and whatnot. The Adds/IAP stuff is for those things. The first game Unity shipped themselves is a mobile f2p experiment.

    The pragmatic view is that they're trying to be a multi-platform engine that targets everything from low-end mobiles to the ps4, and this means that no matter where you're on the scale, they're going to be making a ton of features you won't care about.
     
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  41. Moonjump

    Moonjump

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    Yes many of the services do seem aimed at mobile, but the newer engine features are powerful and require a lot of power, so are better suited to PC/Console, and are dropping the older low performance options.
     
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  42. CarterG81

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    Really? I always figured the peak of a career would be to own your own indie studio or even better transcend from indie to AAA l8ke Cdprojekt Red (Witcher series).

    Going indie with a successful game is IMO the high point of a developer's career. Working for a AAA would be the lower point, unless you are lead or owner obviously, as THAT would be the highest point. Full creative control AND infinite resources? DROOL!

    Yea, coming from the outside definitely.

    This is the consensus I hear. I rarely hear ppl boasting about how great it is to work at AAA. I hear some "It is good. I like it." But the "This is great. So awesome!" is reserved for post-success indies. Before success, I mostly hear about depression & stress, followed by relief.

    Unfortunately I am on the opposite team. I always despised Unity focusing so much on mobile. After Unity 4.6, and especially 5.6, I was giddy. "FINALLY!" I thought. Focus on PC & 2D - two neglected areas. Mobile 3D has always had that spotlight. I came back to Unity thanks to the change away from mobile.
     
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  43. CarterG81

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    Here is what I've gleaned from Unity's history, and why I believe it is accurate to say their focus used to be mobile but is now a high end PC engine, with services always being their #1 focus (even above the engine itself).

    It took endless years for Unity to finally support 2D, which shows their early decisions were pretty much trash. Even their early mobile games were heavily 2D, but never any native support. Arguably it wasnt until Unity 4 or 5 that they could even compete on the PC with 2D or 3D.

    Until the EA guy got involved & one of the original unity owners left, they were all over the place. I loved the change. So did apparently everyone, as it gets more popular & the engine more powerful by the day. There are bigger changes with Unity 4 to 5 than all of 1-4, IMO. Meaningful changes & actually useful features.

    It always felt like they were chasing 3D even when they couldnt compete. However in mobile 3D they were dominating, as well as with alot of 2D too.

    Sometime after mobile success began, they switched over to focus very heavily on being a service company. Being so focused on services, they will always have alot going on there. Read some job reviews of Unity. They employ ALOT of ppl, and I would not be surprised if most are for service side, not the engine side. Unity might even make most or all of their money this way.

    For their engine, the last few years, with the change in leadership, they finally are doing what they need: focusing on the engine. 3D & 2D for the PC. But to focus on high end 3D, they have to stop focus on mobile so much. I believe alot of their past 3D work was focused on mobile. That is why it wasnt until Unity 4-5 that they started to compete with other PC/Console engines.

    Back when, Unity was a horrible engine, unless you used it for mobile (and even then I dont really get why most used it). It has changed ALOT in the last few years. From trash to treasure, for PC developers. I never would have touched it before Unity 4.6 if I knew better back then, just before Unity 3 released.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  44. waynebaby

    waynebaby

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    need permission for mrtp16
     
  45. AgustinCordero

    AgustinCordero

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    Please Spanish forum!! :D

    Make your dreams reality -Unity-!!
     
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  46. Alverik

    Alverik

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    Well, I don't mind the forums that much (native Spanish speaker here). What would be nice to start with is to have the Unity Editor itself support more languages. I've met a few people who don't feel comfortable starting on Unity simply because they don't know English.

    End of out of topic comments.
     
  47. Zenithin

    Zenithin

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    Something Properly using AssetBundles . I am currently really picking my hairs finding good working examples of Unity Asset Bundles which load more than a texture.
     
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  48. boxhallowed

    boxhallowed

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    Wrong place for this. Misunderstood topic.
     
  49. CarterG81

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    Good call.

    If it's of any interest, here's how I make use of them. (Spoiler hidden since this is a bit off topic).

    I have two types of AssetBundles (although I would have 3 if my multiplayer game allowed for a headless server).

    I have one for everything except prefabs (art, animations, colliders, etc.) and I have one for only prefabs. Since preparing AssetBundles doesn't actually load them into memory, I prepare all AssetBundles at the start of the app. (If I have 3, it would be "Prefabs", "Server-Required Assets" which is anything a headless server needs to do logic, and "Client-Requried Assets" which would be art, rendering, etc).

    I load in the AssetBundles to containers in a custom class.

    Code (csharp):
    1. //Asset Bundle Sets - Lists of Bundles via assetType: ArtAssets, Prefabs, Etc.
    2. public class AssetBundleSet
    3. {
    4.     public List<AssetBundle> assetBundles = new List<AssetBundle>();
    5.     public List<AssetBundle> prefabBundles = new List<AssetBundle>();
    6. }
    7.  
    8. public void ReadyGlobalPlayerAssets()
    9. {
    10.     allGlobal_AssetBundleSet.assetBundles.Add(LoadAssetBundleManifest("global_player_assets"));
    11.     allGlobal_AssetBundleSet.prefabBundles.Add(LoadAssetBundleManifest("global_player_prefabs"));
    12. }
    I also store AssetBundleSets based on if they're Global (used everywhere in the game, like Player or GUI), or if they're Local (Only used in specific levels, locations, areas, rarer use of GUI, etc. You get the picture.). Global ones are loaded at the start of the game, and never removed from memory. Local objects are constantly loaded/unloaded. I never unload any AssetBundles - there is no reason to. I load all AssetBundles at the start & then later just load/unload their prefabs into Memory.

    When loading a Level/Location, I precache all of the Prefabs in an AssetBundle. This will automatically load into memory all their dependencies (textures, animations, collider meshes, etc.)

    So I use Methods to Load & Unload prefabs (from AssetBundles) into memory. In this way, I can stream assets based on where the player is in the world. If they're in a Swamp level, it loads the Swamp Prefabs. If they leave, it unloads the Swamp Prefabs & then loads in the new level's prefabs. This way my game doesn't lag (it's best practice to load everything at the start, before play, to avoid performance lag) but my game also doesn't require insane amounts of memory.


    Code (csharp):
    1. public static void LoadToMemory_PrefabsFromBundle(AssetBundle theBundle, ref Dictionary<string, GameObject> prefabsInMemory)
    2.     {
    3.         ///WARNING - For this example, I deleted a lot of error checking code, like making sure it's not already loaded, Debug errors, etc.
    4.         GameObject[] allPrefabs = theBundle.LoadAllAssets<GameObject>();
    5.         foreach (GameObject prefab in allPrefabs)
    6.         {
    7.                 prefabsInMemory.Add(prefab.name, prefab);
    8.         }
    9.     }
    And to unload, just call

    Code (csharp):
    1. //Unload all Location Based Assets from Memor
    2. MasterWorld.Location_PrefabMemorySet.ClearMemoryContainers();
    I never have to load or unload any textures to memory - I deal exclusively with just Prefabs. AssetBundles & Unity handle everything else. (Deleting all the prefabs, will unload all the textures from memory too.)

    Anyway, what this means is that eventually I just call something as something as:

    Code (csharp):
    1. allLocations[locationName].LoadAssetsToMemory();
    2. //or
    3. allLocations[locationName].DestroyInstantiatedLocation();
    4. allLocations[locationName].ReadyLocation();

    The reason I don't just have one AssetBundle & search for Prefabs, is because of name conflicts, Unity not being able to differentiate between a Prefab & other objects like a .dae file, etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
    Alverik and Zenithin like this.
  50. Zanelli1983

    Zanelli1983

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2017
    Posts:
    2
    Having Problems Importing Particle Pack Some Errors in Clear on Play Appears
    Hello there.

    I'm having problems finishing my installing this asset, when i have to import it this errors or this warning appears.

    -"File 'LowMan' has rig import warnings. See Import Messages in Rig Import Tab for more details."

    -"Shader warning in 'Standard (Specular setup)': Output value 'o' is not completely initialized at UnityStandardShadow.cginc(118) (on d3d11)"

    Need help as soon as possible.

    Thanks have a nice day.