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Unity 3 Vs. UDK

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mangopork, May 28, 2010.

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  1. GeneralGrant

    GeneralGrant

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    Yeah, but Unity does run slow as S***.

    And plus, I don't really care for graphics. I would much rather play DOOM then some high-graphics stuff with a S***ty story.
     
  2. gamenut30111

    gamenut30111

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    Sorry if i am bumping up a dead thread guys :)

    Dude, have you tried making a full game with Unity, that isnt easy at all, with udk all you have to do is import some models and terrain, make sure the premade scripts are working correctly, and then your done. Unity is more difficult, but gives you variety, you can make whatever type of game you want, I myself am making a rts game, and i am a 1 man team. UDK is, in my opinion, more of a supped up modding tool, you can make your own scripts, but really, you go to udk for one thing, a Shooter. Also, when i opened up UDK, i got about a 10 fps on their own project, while in unity, i have gotten 90+ fps on most of my projects, no contest, Unity.
     
  3. gamenut30111

    gamenut30111

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    Im in, i want to see these "Limits" that you speak of :)
     
  4. Tudor_n

    Tudor_n

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    Jeez, the starting of yet another miss-informed (both ways) fan boy thread. Can't someone just lock one of the 6 or so identical threads (and the one's that will spawn again) and direct people towards the one that's left active ?

    Talk about poor instancing skills. :D
     
  5. GeneralGrant

    GeneralGrant

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    I'm not fan boy. I'm just saying, UDK requires a top-end computer. This will limit the amount of people willing to buy your game.
     
  6. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    @Mr.Sweet I don't think image below would look that different if it was brought to Unreal or Crytek.
     
  7. hmacyt

    hmacyt

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    Just take a look at Mirrors edge if you want to see how well the UDK can handle stuff like that.
     
  8. WinningGuy

    WinningGuy

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    What someone says that they have pushed Unity to its limits graphically, I think they should also make sure to mention what their target specs are for running the game.
     
  9. JiffOrange

    JiffOrange

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    Yup, that game is off the scale on the PC! Photo-realistic if you have the hardware to render it well! It's all in the materials editor, it's hard to master but once you do the quality benefits to your game are well 'Epic' (Sorry couldn't resist :) ). Here are some material shader WIP's using unreal:



    Cheers,

    Jiff
     
  10. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    I am sorry but your statements make almost no sense. I don't see anything in those screenshots that can't be done with Unity and a CAPABLE artists and programmers. You are aware of the fact that most big titles (AAA) made with Unreal usually have a big team of very talented artist right?

    I always cringe when somebody says you can't do this or that with Unity. Ultimately, the engine is more than capable but it seems as AAA quality artists need to start cranking out the "wow" stuff that so many here on the forums whine about.

    What I say is this... not so hasty... more great artists will pick up Unity and before you know it most of us wish we could create such cool stuff in/with Unity as well.


    Thomas P.
     
  11. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Those of you that need proof unity is capable of greatness:
    http://world.needforspeed.com/

    Although they have a source code license, it is still unity!
     
  12. WinningGuy

    WinningGuy

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    Just to add to your point...

    Big teams also often have dedicated shader programmers. It's an art all by itself.

    If you have a team of very talented artists and a team of programmers that can produce shaders possessing properties that the artists request, then you can end up with some amazing images.

    Personally, when someone says that one engine could do something that another can't, they really need to add a myriad of specific qualifiers. (target platform specs, polys per second, types of shaders, particle effects, etc...)
     
  13. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

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    This is a great rumor, but untrue... AFAIK they only use Unity as a front end for NFSW but not for the game itself.

    As for the screenshots posted of Unreal Tournament I have to agree with Thomas... the real "AAA" beauty behind those images is the amazing talent of the artists working on those levels. There's nothing specific in those shots that is that spectacular technology-wise besides great modeling and normal maps, nice lightmaps, lens flares, and fog.... nothing that Unity doesn't offer. Is UT3 a more mature engine than Unity? No doubt, but great talent is a huge part of the equation.

    With regards to Mirrors Edge, they used Beast for the stylized lighting in that game which is exactly what Unity 3 has.... again, the talent of the artists pulled that look off, not some magical button in UT3.
     
  14. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    Yes indeed. That's why I mentioned "programmers" next to "artist" as most artists aren't familiar with shader programming. Programming shaders is an artform in itself and quite tricky but help dramatically with the "looks" the artists want to achieve.

    I wish most "whining" people here and on other forums would use the time they waste on crying to make games and try to get better at the "art" thing. It's up to the community to proof that "Unity" can do AAA quality stuff.

    Thomas P.
     
  15. WinningGuy

    WinningGuy

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    You just saved me a load of cash.

    I was going to license UT3 just for that button!
     
  16. showoff

    showoff

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    I have to agree with everything Thomas is saying because I have seen some amazing looking stuff done with unity and from that screen shot unity wasn’t push to its limit but I would have to assume the artist was push to his/her limit. I for one am sick of seeing people saying unity isn’t capable of AAA quality and I’ve seen a lot of awesome stuff done with this engine and I think for the price it is well capable of doing AAA quality work.
     
  17. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

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    We actually have this button in Unity 3!!! Pre-order Now! ;)

    (where's my marketing hat?)
     
  18. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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    Oh, sorry :oops: .
     
  19. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

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    No biggie, I thought they were using Unity at first too ;)
     
  20. GeneralGrant

    GeneralGrant

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    NFSW sounds a lot like NSFW. I spent a whole lot of time trying to find this "NSFW" game.
     
  21. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

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    And came across some great sites no doubt...

    I knew that acronym looked familiar ;)
     
  22. gamenut30111

    gamenut30111

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    Code (csharp):
    1.  
    2. var unity : int;
    3. var udk : int;
    4. var amountofdevelopers : int;
    5. var variety : int;
    6. var shooter : boolean;
    7.  
    8. function Start () {
    9.  if(shooter){
    10.   if(amountofdevelopers > 1){
    11.    unity = unity + 3;
    12.    udk = udk + 2;
    13.   }
    14.   else{
    15.    udk = udk + 1;
    16.   }
    17.   //adding for udk speed.
    18.   udk = udk + 1;
    19.   //adding for unity speed.
    20.   unity = unity + 2;
    21.   //adding for udk ease to use.
    22.   udk = udk - 1;
    23.   //adding for unity ease to use.
    24.   unity = unity + 1;
    25.   //adding for premade scripts.
    26.   unity = unity + 1;
    27.   udk = udk + 3;
    28.   if(unity > udk){
    29.    Debug.Log("UDK Sucks, Unity Wins");
    30.   }
    31.   else{
    32.    Debug.Log("ehh, udk is ok i guess");
    33.   }
    34.  }
    35.  else{
    36.   Debug.Log("wow, looks like udk is only good for one thing");
    37.  }
    38. }
    39.  
    And there you go :), i got bored.
     
  23. melmonkey

    melmonkey

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    Regarding UDK's speed...

    Here is a story. When I worked for Midway, we published Unreal Tournament 3, and had access to the UE3 source from the beginning. When we started using UE3 for all our projects internally, management had a very strong desire for our sports titles and fighting titles to run at 60 fps.

    The Epic guys told us that the engine was designed for 30 fps, and if we wanted 60 fps, we were on our own.

    Now eventually we got the 60 fps, at the cost of removing or re-writing entire sub-systems of the engine. We even went so far as to remove the Novadex/PhysX physics engine, and put in Havok instead.

    So, unless Epic has done some major re-working of the engine for the UDK, it isn't designed to run above 30 fps.
     
  24. MrSweet

    MrSweet

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    Hello Thomas

    We are a team of artists and developers and our group turnover is 450million so plenty of resource, i'm not some child sat in his bedroom having a whine, we use all these engines and like i said UNITY day in day out and are getting some very nice results from it, and work very hard with passion on this stuff.

    Maybe i worded that post wrong, the main difference between Unity and the main engines (for a production point of view ) is down to the tools available for creating content, simple tasks in say Unreal 3 would take months of work to create using Unity, that is the main issue, regards what the engine is capable of.. if you think a $1000 software can match the same complexity of software that costs £500k please read the below links to get an overview of what these offer -

    http://www.unrealtechnology.com/features.php?ref=rendering
    http://www.crytek.com/technology/cryengine-3/specifications/

    Take lighting, it would take months and months of work to create the same work that takes a few days in Unreal or Crysis, the main reason we are interested in Beast, it look very interesting and we are testing it's features.

    Here are a few images again from UNITY and one from Crysis, i think for the money it produces some great content.

    Can i see what you have managed to produce from Unity? out of interest.

    Regards

    A






     
  25. Filto

    Filto

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    And I am sick of people saying what Unity can do without showing something to back their claims up. Where is this awesomeness you are talking about?

    As far as i am concerened we don't know if Unity is capable of producing AAA quality because no one has done it (and there might be a reason for this)

    The only thing we know at this moment for sure is that Unity is capable of NOT producing AAA quality :)

    Maybe with Unity 3 things will change, who knows.

    I would consider being part of a team with this mission (pure showoff demo). It is a hard and tedious task doing this by yourself and I lost interest in this ambition when I realised creating shaders was such a huge hurdle for me.

    By the way that last image looks very nice Mr Sweet. Love to see more of that project. Its great to get opinions from people like you who know what you are talking about and are not biased towards any engine. It counts for alot.

    Please get back with feedback about Beast once you have had the time to evaluate it
     
  26. MrSweet

    MrSweet

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    ^^ love your work, shame you're not in the UK as you could do some stuff for us

    A
     
  27. Filto

    Filto

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    Thanks alot. Always nice to hear
     
  28. Deleted User

    Deleted User

    Guest

    That's the plan of my zombie FPS ;)
     
  29. showoff

    showoff

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    Okay Filto you want to see what unity can do checkout the links below. Some of the work people have posted is unfinished but still it shows how fare you can push unity and I’m sure unity can be push even further with the right knowledge and skills.

    http://www.interstellarmarines.com/

    http://www.rexona.com.br/xrace/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd7Gvxcyl8Y
    http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=68076

    http://janbubenik.blogspot.com/
    http://blurst.com/blush/
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=44317&start=0&sid=65ada717940b71b23cc95b31e7059d7b

    I think this version of unity wasnt 2.6 but a older version
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=10486
    http://www.stephenrebeiro.com/Tram.html
    http://www.stephenrebeiro.com/web_es1.html
    http://www.stephenrebeiro.com/web_es2.html
    http://www.stephenrebeiro.com/Spyder.html
    http://www.stephenrebeiro.com/Site/gamesWIP.html
    http://www.stephenrebeiro.com/Site/Games.html

    Project Double Zero
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTyrAyxBweQ
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=27271&highlight=project+double+zero

    http://www.superfunk.com/unity/[/url]
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=8747&highlight=bathroom
    http://maxandthemagicmarker.com/demo/

    The screen shot speaks for itself
    http://unity3d.com/unity/coming-soon/unity-3

    http://www.robertoandreoli.org/gall_cgvideogames/pagine/ArchAll.htm
    http://vrwalking.g0dsoft.com/studioapartment.htm
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=33210&highlight=apartment
    http://www.hyperviz.com/showroom/lightrooms/
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=43733&highlight=crysis+test
    http://www.roxxor.ch/kroenlein04.html
    http://www.rockandroald.net/
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=31041&highlight=levels
    http://apps.facebook.com/axewings/?auth_token=4efc8782373820a830602ca55b0eb9f2
    http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=31387&highlight=2009+casket+aesthete


    And there are many more links like this just search the forums and you will find this stuff but thats all I could find in 15mins time.
     
  30. GeneralGrant

    GeneralGrant

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    omfg

    bookmarked.
     
  31. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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  32. Filto

    Filto

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    Thanks showoff great collection! Been following Unity almost daily for 1,5 year so I've seen most of these already though. Many of the games are very cool. Especially like Max and the magic marker.

    We were talking about the graphics though and regardless how well executed artisticly some of them are techniqually they are at best barely current gen and definately nothing that calls for using the term awesome.

    You can do really cool things with Unity no doubt about it and it has lots and lots of advantages compared to other engines but lets be humble and reasonable here. Unity is not the best tool in every aspect and UDK can deliver far more awesomeness in the graphics department (atleast with the tools available).

    I'm not saying you are not looking at things objectivly but I have met time and time again at this forum people that meet critism against Unity as if someone insulted their closest friend.

    I have a collegue that reacts the same way when you say anything bad about Apple becuase as far as he is concerened Apple is flawless.

    Softwarecompany crushes are abit silly and is of gain to noone. Unity can improve and its nothing wrong to point out the areas where they lack.

    :roll:
     
  33. JRavey

    JRavey

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    Measuring potential is always difficult, in particular measuring a game engine's potential is extremely difficult because performance is heavily influenced by the client developers' skills as well as the engine developers' skills. What we can know is that Unreal has a proven track record of high production quality games, something Unity currently lacks. This doesn't prove that they cannot be done, just that they have not yet been done.

    Much of this is a result of the client base, established studios with funding frequently hire experienced developers to make games based on Unreal technology while Unity is still fairly young. If Relic were to make a Warhammer RTS in Unity, it would crush anything coming from the Indie/Amateur section of the community. This is not meant as a disparaging remark on the Indie/Amateur members (which includes myself), but is an acknowledgement of the power of large budgets supporting experienced teams. As we can learn from Hellgate: London, large teams and budgets don't guarantee success or quality, but they are good to have if you can manage them.

    Before I digress too far, we need to separate what we know and what we believe. I happen to believe that Unity is capable of large scale games with high production quality, but we won't see its real potential for such projects until a major studio or publisher becomes involved in such a project.
     
  34. MrSweet

    MrSweet

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    But they won't because Unreal has a hold on the market as does Maya and PRman, they'll be more interested in the Unreal 4 engine than what Unity can offer.

    I have V3 Unity open right now testing Beast, lets just say the Unreal light-mapping is far far far faster at this stage and more complex, but it's a great addition to Unity and the guys have done an awesome job to slip this into Unity for FREE.

    A
     
  35. showoff

    showoff

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    @ Filto
    O you’re not insulting me if anything you’re insulting the people that have created that AWESOME work with unity. The point I was trying to make Filto is that unity is well capable of produce AAA quality but with the right skill set and knowledge. Anyone can take UDK and make a game and it would look just as crappy or just as good as the next game but without the right skill and knowledge and or team I’m sure your game will look just like the next crappy game. And the majority of all of the links I posted are browser base games which I believe aren’t graphically set as high as udk standalone. I also don’t believe anyone said unity was the best tool there is in the world. Personally I have used udk and I prefer cryengine over udk.
    Yea and the apple thing is hilarious I hate apple product. Check out the iphone video you gotta love it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg
    Okay back to the subject
    O yea and if you can show the forums users a multiplatform browser base game engine other than unity that has a flexible toolset and can produce beautiful work then maybe I’ll give in. :)
    Now don’t get me wrong there are many other browser base game engines out there that does some nice high end graphics such as shiva3d, torque, quest3d, dxstudio, virtools, and the list goes on. But for the price tag (free/pro) of unity you get your money’s worth if you use the tool wisely.
    And to address this crush you’re talking about, what sorry I don’t have one. I’ve use multiple game engines and personally unity is one of my many tools I use but it is one of my tools that’s at the top of my list of tools. You are also correct in that unity does have its flaws but what software app doesn’t. I’ve yet to see an application create for any OS or OS itself that was flawless.
     
  36. Bael

    Bael

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    Above 30 fps on consoles, where that's pretty normal outside of fighting games. Most console games target 30 fps, and the engines are pushed until they're right at that point anyhow.. it has nothing to do with UE3 being slow.
     
  37. Filto

    Filto

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    Oh damn I'm back at this again. Just read what I said one more time showoff. The only claim I actually did make is that UDK is more powerful and has better tools than Unity when it comes to graphics (for instance a shadereditor) and in earlier posts that nothing has been done in Unity that comes up to AAA standard in graphics so nobody knows if it can. Maybe it will crawl when you throw that much at it?

    I also said that Unity has other advantages so you asking me to show an engine that has both the advantages of Unity (price, multiplatforn, flexibilty aso) and the powerful graphics of UDK is kinda pointless isn't it. If I knew of such an engine I wouldn't be a Unityuser would I but using that fantastic engine that has it all instead.

    But I am a Unityuser so clearly I like it, doesn't mean I'm gonna praise everthing about it and I doubt the Unity team is insulted just because I say that their tool isn't perfect in all aspects. They know they are not gods even though i'm sure some user here would disagree ;)

    On a sidenot that video was hilarious :D
     
  38. Alric

    Alric

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    I hope somebody wins the argument soon so I can know how to make AAA games :twisted:
     
  39. defmech

    defmech

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    I'm not going to make any absolute statements about the capabilities of one engine or another. Unreal was my favorite tech before I found Unity. It's still what I'd fall back to or choose instead if the project needs called for it. However, a few months back, someone posted some images comparing the rendering quality of UDK vs. Unity 2.6.1 using source material from one of the Eat3D training packages. I was very surprised to see just how similar both were. In a double-blind test, I imagine the average gamer wouldn't be able to tell which was which. I wish I could find that thread. If anyone remembers and can dig it up, I think it would be a good contribution to this one.

    All that said, I'm glad to be one of the people who has little to no interest in the AAA rat race :)
     
  40. Filto

    Filto

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    Yeah that was me :)
     
  41. defmech

    defmech

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    Ha! What a coincidence! Do you remember what thread it was? For the life of me, I can't find it. I'm curious and want to look at them again. What were your impressions after doing the comparison? I'm also curious to see another comparison done after version 3 comes out. The benefits of deferred rendering and a nice integrated lightmapper are going to even the bar when comparing identical scene setups.
     
  42. antenna-tree

    antenna-tree

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  43. showoff

    showoff

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  44. llde_chris

    llde_chris

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    I have seen gorgeous things in Unity, but we couldn't conveniently scale them to full levels because of the lack of occlusion culling in 2.6 among other things.

    Looking forward to that and deferred in 3.0, and seeing how our stuff looks there.
     
  45. Filto

    Filto

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    If was pretty straight forward actually. Some detailshaders I couldn't mimic if a remember correctly and the the normalmap looked abit worse in Unity thats it.

    And its alright showoff. I'm used to people disagreeing with me here. My conclusion should of course be that its me and not them but I'm stubborn ;)

    Yep I got the beta of that shader editor to. Wonder what happened with it cause it was nice. My guess is that the shaders were quite inefficient cause when I looked every shader even the simplest produced a massive amount of code and therefor development stopped.
     
  46. showoff

    showoff

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    no he is still developing it and i believe those shaders was referencing the code/shader nodes whatever u want to call it in the editor.
     
  47. Filto

    Filto

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    that is brilliant news! thought the project was dead
     
  48. ColossalDuck

    ColossalDuck

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  49. MrSweet

    MrSweet

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    Filto - are you using the V3 Beta?
     
  50. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    I just saw it now on youtube. Pretty slick!!! Was it done in UDK? If it's an indie game I'm pretty amazed!

    MIRROR's EDGE:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFZIm-Qsrsg

    Lets strip that game down on its technical aspects:

    -global illumination.
    -soft shadows self shadowing
    -normal mapping
    -depth of field
    -motion blur
    -image filters
    -great 3d models and textures
    -antialiasing
    -procedural animation

    I might be forgetting something, but I think those are the overall graphic features that make that game's graphics so good.
    You find these features in UDK obviously, but they are all in Unity 3 as well, right? (I'm not 100% so if i'm wrong someone let me know).

    I haven't found so far any graphic feature in Unity that takes months to achieve, everything is right there, easy to use. (I hope I don't prove me wrong)

    Don't get me wrong, though, my goal isn't senseless cheering for Unity, just felt like laying out my argument on why Unity shouldn't have anything to envy UDK.
     
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