Thread Creep: Off topic: etc... what does it mean, why is it bad?

Particularly at mods, but anyone, if you know and understand this stuff, please, let me know. What does this off-topic etc stuff mean, and why is it so bad as to warrant closing threads, deleting posts etc. when a forum is clearly a social place... meaning it's only natural a topic gets explored from many angles.

A forum's not a courtroom or class definition, it's a living space, with people sharing, caring and otherwise. So I don't, at all, understand why it's considered bad form for a conversation to wander as they all do in real life. Kind of like the "discovery" process of a legal process. Or are forums : Question > Answer only structures?

Please keep in mind, in my time on the internet, ( a long time, I'm old ) this forum is the one I've been most active in. ie. I don't have a lot of forum experience. I've read a LOT of them, for different software and interests etc, but never been active in one until now; and it might be argued I'm not all that active in here. I don't know the metrics.

 

Depends a lot on the forum rules etc.

But by going off topic you can:

1) Not answer the question.

2) Make it harder to find answers.

You can of course make general threads, especially in gossip, but talking about whether or not nazi's were all genocidal in a thread, about say, how to rotate a gameObject, isn't helpful.

 

It's really quite simple. Somebody posts a question and expects an answer. Now somebody shows up and posts an answer to that question. That would be the way you expect it to be right? Well let's assume people start posting totally irrelevant replies to that question... it will quickly turn into a total mess as everybody makes a lot of "noise" without being helpful or "on topic". So how did all those noise makers help the original poster? They didn't.

Let's take it one step further... now after 10 people posted totally irrelevant stuff in the thread, somebody with an answer shows up! Great! But perhaps by now the original author of the post has grown weary and tired of people posting irrelevant stuff in his thread and doesn't even bother checking back and he missed the answer to his question (in an extreme case).

Lastly, there may be others who had the same question and they do a "Search" on the forum. Now those guys have to wade through a bunch of "talk" that has nothing to do with the question. Going "Off-Topic" has various bad side effects as you can see. To the benefit of all it would be a good idea to stay as much on topic as you can (not always 100% possible obviously).

We don't close threads because people go off topic. We close threads when the off-topic talk becomes a problem (people are fighting verbally, insult each other etc). A forum is a social space as you stated - therefore there has to be rules (even though they aren't written here). There are rules/laws in your every day life - a forum is no different.


Thomas

 

The gossip forum is the only place which is "social". The rest of the forum is strictly business for most of us. It will annoy the panties off someone if people treat it like facebook. A lot of people do this for a living. It is their day job.

If you walk into a cafe and start hanging out with the chef when he's got a lot of bacon to cook, he is going to be very unhappy with you. The gossip forum seems quite social and a hang out area.

It is ok to make a quip in a post in response to someone's findings but make sure your posts always contain constructive things that benefit the thread, an observation perhaps or a question that might help the author get an answer.

Not necessarily... It is also a WORK SPACE.

If you want to play social, please play in the gossip forum. Each forum has a specific purpose, like this thread in the gossip forum.

You're really welcome to have fun and talk about cool things, but don't put it in the wrong forum. I think it is frankly bizarre you think that forums are a social/sharing/caring place. It is such a broad generalization.

Forums all have a specific purpose, some for fun, some for shaders, some for iOS issues and so on... I suggest you post where you feel the topic belongs. I am not exactly addressing the thread author, but explaining to anyone my stance, when typing this.

I appreciate the fact that mods clean stuff up - especially in the work forums where answers are needed for results in unity. Good answers and good results means more sales for unity and its good business for customers and unity themselves.

Finally, you will get a number of posts which seem off-topic but its merely people trying to self-govern themselves. A certain amount of gentle peer pressure is healthy for the forum. Mods can quickly get swamped without the support of the general population showing a desire to keep things orderly.

It will depend on the sub-forum but people exploring offtopic issues in a thread which has clearly asked how to get a certain shader working, is just childish and ruins the efforts of the author to get an answer. Depends on your definition of "off topic". My definition is talking about someone else or a different issue

 

Based on this, I assume both the word "forum" and "thread" are then either the wrong words to use for this instance of a forum and its threads or the meaning of the words has changed sufficiently via the process of internet adaptation and word meaning creep for me to be completely wrong. (won't be the first or last time)

Because what you're saying is this:

Unity's forum is for the Answers to Questions. Only. That the purpose and intent of the forum is that a thread be initiated ONLY by a question, and that the only appropriate responses are attempts at Answers. Which means it's NOT a forum. By what I know the word forum to mean.

In this construct, Unity.Answers is actually more flexible because it has a space for comments. From your response, comments seem inappropriate in the forum.

Yet you go onto make a comment... on "rules/laws in life... forum no different."... well, yeah, nah. Nope. No. That's impossible to use as an analogy for any international public forum space. Which this is, or I thought so. When you don't write down the rules, only enforce them. It's not "one world order, one world law, one world tyranny" where I live, so your analogy fails, I hope.

The forum is still at least partially international, I'd hope, and still at least permissive and understanding of cultural independence and diversity. Particularly considering the enormous number of people using it where English appears to be a second or third language.

But then again, you do spend time explaining about optimising, via your culling and closing, the forum for search. This is odd for a number of reasons. The lighter of which is because from what I'm seeing of a lot of responses, those that can search don't, those that can't search or don't know what to search for are admonished for not doing so.

But more seriously, wasn't the entire purpose of Unity.Answers to provide what you've described in terms of an easily searchable database of questions and answers? If both the forum and Unity.Answers serve the same purpose, with the same construct, how do I choose when to go where?

And again, on a lighter note, we may all become dependent on the forum after tomorrow...

 

Dictionary definition:

It clearly states a forum, and the actual definition of it can very well be a court of law. It can also be a medium for discussion about *specific* things.

This place has a lot of forums, each one is dedicated to a specific purpose. So depending on your needs, you can opt for the specific forum you want. Gossip forum seems to fit your ideas, the others have specific roles. I hope that helps.

 

It is not as strict as that, and normally it comes down to common sence. Though I do grant sometimes it can be hard to figure out exactly what it is.

But take the scripting forum. It about scripting issues only, and it's only about unity scripting. (Unity forums -> Unity -> Scripting).

You wouldn't post a collab in there because there is a better place for that already, collab.

Within that 'forum' the OP wil start a post with a specific topic.

e.g.

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/89638-Rotate-an-object.

So, now it's:

Unity Forums -> Unity -> Scripting -> Rotate an Object.

Generally if you can say something that's relevant to that then your on topic and all is good (as long as you follow other rules of course). And if not, then no.

Even within human conversation the same rules apply, you just need to learn how to recognize them. Imagine the following:

----

I assume this http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/89465-Accessing-scripts-between-GameObjects may be the cause of some issue, so I will 'briefly' go over it:

1) It is a rant, far too long and could much better be delivered with a calmer head. Not saying this is easy to do, but that's what we all should be aiming for.

2) It goes off topic, remember this is about accessing scripts between game objects. You cover:

• (Perceived) Poor documentation
• Unities marketing.
• Other products marketing and documentation.
• Earlier rants you've had about this issue.
• Your difficulty in learning C#
• Unity potentially losing developers due to the above.
• The Communities response.
• Questions aimed at unity3D staff.
• Questions/statements about perceived superiority.
• etc.

Now if you directly answered the question and had maybe one or two of those things in it it would be okay, but taken together it is simply unsuitable.

This is not to say you don't have valid points, but you should

1. Calm down a little.
2. Break down the issues to their core.
3. Post a single well structured post in the relevant forum.

 

Firstly, no, this post was not my cause for my concerns about forums and topics and closings etc. I've been reading the thread on Mono's fate etc, that got closed, that's my cause for concern. Thanks for trying to think for me, tho.

To your above points about me "going off topic"... wrong... they're all carefully constructed so that anyone, including the original poster, when they come across this problem in Unity, PERSIST, despite roadblocks, frustrations, irritations, etc... until they find the answer, and further I attempt to sympathise with the reader searching for the answer...

No, I don't solve the problem, which is what I'd hoped to see in the post, but without solving the problem, they do, all points, hopefully, inspire the reader to continue searching for the answer with some awareness that there may not be an easy path to that answer.

Because, as has been made clear a multitude of times, there is no one perfect example, reference, tutorial or instance of educational resource that can get all New Unity User coming across this hump straight over it, for all of them, quickly.

Got it?

Ok, now, where you go WAY off topic, by your own definition:

You've managed to be pious, self righteous and preachy about a state of mind, that depending on the readers view point, could be religious, mythical, psychiatric, pseudo intellectual, whatever... without providing any evidence of the validity or otherwise of this approach to anything. Least of all the topic at hand.

 

I am not sure you are discussing or arguing for argument's sake. I shall shortly build a time machine and consult plato. If that isn't offtopic enough then nothing will be. Goodbye, hello and thank you for all the fish.

 

I'm asking about the also be's... and conditions around them. Obviously. Yes, we've most of us, got dictionary's built in to the computers we use. Inherently the question is framed to the frame work of the question and where it is in the forum's, obviously... it's about the rules HERE imposed by whomever. Ideally I'd like "why" answered as well, but not holding my breath for that.

and yes, the fish were good. thankyou.

 

You appear to have an issue with a fairly standard rule in forums, and in communication in general. I'm merely trying to understand why this is, and provide an example of where a poster, in this case yourself, has breached forum norms by, among other things, going off-topic.

The mono thread had outlived it's usefulness, there was a newer, more up to date thread to continue discussion in.

 

Trying to think for me, again? Don't do that. You'll hurt yourself.

 

This is called trolling, it is also in breach of netiquette.

 

really?

See the following, again:

I'd consider this both trolling and a failed attempt at a passive aggressive personal attack. Which I've chosen to make light of, rather than "cry to mumma".

"netiquette." I'm still laughing. That's a funny one.