The End Game game....

The trouble here is really allowing for the systems in game. Sure the interactions in a roleplay setting are essentially limitless. But in practice most games have heavy combat systems, and very limited chat systems. Its hard to come to a diplomatic solution when the game barely implements chat. And you can forget about diplomacy at all if any of the agents involved are AI controlled.

Implementing a system that allows real roleplay is challenging. How would you build something that allows you to sneak in and steal the kings left shoe, then tie it to a pole and use it as a truce banner indicating your agents were in his bedroom while he slept? And that's just a minor roleplay that players have thrown at me.

Without a human GM, or at least all of the agents being human, building a system to accommodate this level of roleplay is very, very difficult. And even when every entity is human, its still not an easy task.

 

Actually, I have played a number of text games that focus on role play, some require role play and have never had a problem. In SWG, role play was very deep and meaningful, outside of the mechanics.

Most games, yes. That is the point. As long as we are comparing "most games" we will get no where. lol

 

Well nobody can match the amazing imagination of a role player! Text is amply enough to describe everything.

I was designing from a "system" perspective, ie I'm only talking about interaction supported and baked into the system instead of the imagination! For example typical RPG have a fighting system to mediate combat. You don't need combat to enact fighting through imagination, so a game without fighting you can still "pretend". So it's all about the system participating in the wild imagination of the role player!

Of course you can't implement all system player can come out with their imagination, so the system select and support some type that are considered backbone, in most RPG it's the fighting system and world simulation and a distant third a dialog/affinity system. This system would put story arc, relation, character and conflict in front center.

Not EDIT: NINJA'd by @BoredMormon

 

I might have to do some more digging on SWG.

But my general experience has been that the more visual fidelity you add to games, the less flexibility you can give to players. Pen and paper games tend to allow all sorts of improvised rules that can be made up as you go to support the story. I don't remember a session where we didn't make up something on the fly to deal with what the players wanted to do.

The same holds true to a large extent for text based video games.

As soon as you start to move to more modern video games, things get more rigid. Making up rules on the fly tends to be much more expensive. And while I'd love to see one of these games, I just can't conceive of a game design that will work.

Valid point.

 

Basically
- player's economy crafting (all items were from crafting) with extensive jobs system you can mix and match (had specific missions), less focus on combat possible
- non instanced housing (with extensive decoration) and player driven government system
- World simulation with RT space battle (own a ship + interior decoration), monster ecology with taming, sandbox exploration, high investment complexity (grind) which mean relying on other player and specializing, but also emergent mentorship.
- pvp of course, unbalance in an interesting way, jedi was month long (mystery driven) progression, could only be beaten by bounty hunter which could be hired by player, which mean if someone saw you with a light saber they would mostly call a bounty hunter.

The gold standard of Role playing MMO, it's a known model they did experience and isn't just speculation. Now revive with SWGemu by fan, haven't check the evolution.

Spoiler: Some video giving context

The player's perspective and why it was good:
short video

long video

The mismanagement story
Long video

the rebirth SWGemu

I wonder what SWG people think of game like ARK evolved? Craft base survival seems to have a lot of (classless) roleplay and craft based player economy ...

 

You should check out Divinity: Original Sin 2. I know they semi-recently added a framework for running tabletop PnP games within the game.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/05/09/divinity-original-sin-2-gm-mode-preview/

 

Trust me, while the discussion here does not all apply to our game, we are putting in plenty of mechanics, including combat and other systems that will drive combat. Without that, the game is just a chatroom, which is not a bad thing for role players, but we also want a framework for our stage.

I have spent a lot of time asking role players what they want in a game and again, as I said above, they want mechanics but they want them out of the way when they do not need them.

 

Yes, very true. Which is why you add things that allow role players to easily convey their messages.

Only if the making stuff up on the fly requires rigid mechanics.

 

Yes, very true. And it was a great game for role playing even with modern (at the time) graphics, progression/grinding mechanics, etc., because the designers gave us stuff like a reason for the conflict (lore, of course Star Wars), plenty of ways to express our role play through simple mechanics, lots of choices, and they integrated community and social aspects into the game. The social stuff is what brought so many support characters into the game. And if you look at Bartles taxonomy, you know that social players attract others.

Unfortunately, the SWGemu has not yet become the place the original game was. I am not sure why, maybe server wiping? We have visited it a number of times but it is full of people just grinding. It is not attracting really a lot of role players. Possibly someone will open a server for role players but I do not think they have yet. My experience on SWG was on a role play server so that is the experience I want again. Sometimes, it is impossible to go back though.

As for balance, sometimes that is okay. The problem with the Jedi was the grind...and the fact that everyone wanted to be a jedi. That kind of balance is dull.