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Runtime Revolution - Anyone using?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TheLorax, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. TheLorax

    TheLorax

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  2. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    That looks interesting. I wonder how it compares to RealBasic? I've been thinking about picking up RB for some "general purpose" coding. One thing I noticed, while searching the Revolution forums, was that it had little or no joystick or DirectX support.
     
  3. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    It is no game programming language nor has it any real support for it.
    Without buying an extra module you can not do anything graphics related actually.

    I've been doing some nice stuff with the trial of it lately.
    It is quite an interesting thing for applications as the code is "self explaining" due to the fact that it is very near to "normal english"
     
  4. DaveyJJ

    DaveyJJ

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    I've been a quiet fan of RunRev since it came out.

    I even had the pleasure of having a long breakfast meeting with Kevin, it's CEO, back at a WWDC I attended when I was living in the Bay area (2000 methinks?).

    Consider it a very modernized and souped up version if HyperCard, in some sense. Modern UI for the IDE, ability to do all the fun DB and normal programming stuff you could want, and as dreamora said, the huge thing it has going for it is it's basis in the XTalk group of languages meaning programming/scripting uses a very natural and easy to understand almost English-like syntax.

    It's superbly suited to people like myself who have the general knowledge and understanding of what HAS to be done in a program, but don't have the time needed to fully learn a whole new (computer) language like C or Objective-C because of the disconnect between code (%d) and natural language.

    And it doesn't lack power at all.

    The downside to many here is that, again as pointed out, there is no real effort to support any type of gaming functionality. It would be a superb engine and IDE for beginning game developers if it had all (hell, ANY) of the basics that say TGB or GameMaker (coming soon to Mac) had built in, but it doesn't, sadly.

    But for basic development and clear language, it's a nice treat and powerful enough for many things, certainly. Grab the demo and give it a try.

    PS. Also, I dislike their "update" fees for the program. It's like Realbasic who only license it to you for a set period, and it then becomes expensive to upgrade.
     
  5. Bones3D

    Bones3D

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    HyperCard... now that's a trip down memory lane!

    Back in the day, if you had a copy of ResEdit and HyperCard, you could pull off some pretty neat tricks well outside of what HyperCard could do by itself. Although it probably wasn't legal by copyright standards, I used to hack apart 3rd party stacks, strip out all the XCMDs and XFNCs and then reverse engineer them for use in my own stacks.

    The game "Myst" is a perfect example of just how far you could push the envelope.

    Good times though... good times.
     
  6. Yann

    Yann

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    Yes... and such a pitty that we have to learn so strange languages to master Unity's power. Building a complex scene with Unity is incredibly fast and easy - but when it comes to scripting, I always find myself asking why they didn't implement something like RealBasic, HyperCard or AppleScript. None of the arguments I read on the Unity forums has ever convinced me that this isn't a lack, and that it wouldn't be a real plus for a future version.
     
  7. podperson

    podperson

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    I loved HyperCard back in the day, but I can't love RunRev. Aside from being very unstable, like HyperCard it produces very non-native UIs with all kinds of annoying defects (text incorrectly centered in controls, bad default fonts, etc.). Every six months or so they release a new verson, I download it, play with it for about fifteen minutes, and delete it.

    RealBasic, for all its faults, is a much better tool for creating small utility programs. Like RunRev it's not suitable for game development.

    If you want something good, fast, cross-platform, and cheap, there's BlitzMax. It's also designed for 2d game development (and 3d ... one day).

    I'm not a fan of RB's new subscription system but the license is unlimited, you just stop getting free updates. I tend to let it lapse and pay again when they announce a feature I might care about.
     
  8. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    3D is already possible (MiniB3D, IrrlichtB3D, ...)

    But the main difference to RunRev is that it is "just another programming language", not something that resembles normal languages, which often is much easier to use for "non pros"

    With BM you just have to keep in mind that you get what you pay for (100 USD once, no recurring costs, no royality): Its nice etc, but don't expect it to evolve within a usefull timeframe. Its done by a single person, most likely in the spare time from the progress it has seen in its 2.5 years since release.
    And compilation for the other OS means that you must own those OS to run BM on and compile it there. No compilation for other platforms from a single platform (this includes no universal binary as well)

    I use it to develop my tools as it is cross platform and pretty easy to use. As I deeped hartly dislike C++ there are not many alternatives for me, java would be the only one thats within an acceptable price - gain range (Eiffel, RealBasic etc are just freaking expensive for a stupid programming language, especially with the renewal fees)
     
  9. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    I've got a question that is semi-related to this topic: I need to develop some applications that combine video in a window (from a video capture card), joystick input and serial communication through a USB port (simple ASCII commands). I was going to do this with Adobe Director (since I've used Director before) but the cost of all the Xtra's I'll need is kind of pricey for this little app.

    Runtime Revolution won't do it. RealBasic would do it, but isn't cheap especially if I decide I want to make the app cross platform. What about BlitzMax or something else? I'd prefer using something that is either similar in syntax/structure to Unity Javascript or as easy to learn.

    Suggestions?
     
  10. Yann

    Yann

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    Bigkahuna, have you checked PureBasic ? 79 euros for the 4 versions : Mac OSX, Windows, Linux... and even Amiga :)

    PureBasic already has a huge collection of libraries (incl. serial port) and is known to produce extremely fast executables. It is supported by a very responsive team of developpers and active community, more and more involved in game programming. The present version (4.20) already implements a streamlined - though very interesting and cleverly implemented - version of Ogre3D under Windows. No need of any wrapper : it's useable right out of the box, with excellent documentation so that you never feel lost, even in your very first projects.

    Still on Windows, you can also have full access to the whole DarkBasic game engine without leaving PureBasic, with a wrapper supported and sold by the DarkBasic team. This way, you have instant access to DX9 shaders, etc. You can even edit these shaders with realtime preview by using Dark Shader, a 25 euros DarkBasic companion app...

    But best of all (tada !) : the next version of PureBasic (4.30, already in beta and soon to be released) will offer full Ogre3D 1.4.9 support on both Mac OSX and Windows (and maybe also Linux, but I'm not 100% sure). It will also have multi-joystick support, etc.

    Here's the link to their site : http://www.purebasic.com/index.php3

    Personally, I think PureBasic 4.30 will encounter a large success, especially in the Mac community where there has been surprinsigly no comparable solution up to now - except maybe for BlitzMax + Irrlicht wrapper, but this wrapper is developped by an individual, its most recent version hasn't been compiled for the Mac, and the only available doc sources are the translated Irrlicht tutorials and a forum.

    In comparison, PureBasic has one of the best documentations I've ever seen. You can grab it in PDF here, to see in particular how easy it is to build and manage 3D scenes with PureBasic : http://www.purebasic.com/documentation/PureBasic.pdf

    I'm a big fan of Unity's scene builder and materials customization tools, but I sincerely hope that this predictable success of PureBasic + Ogre3D will give some good ideas to Unity developpers in terms of scripting simplicity (for example by preferring Basic to Boo) and documentation clarity... :wink:
     
  11. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    Thanks Yann, I'll take a look at PB.
     
  12. Yann

    Yann

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    They did it : PureBasic 4.3 is available for registered users as a working beta for Mac and PC, compatible with the most recent version of Ogre3d (1.6). After a few adjustments, I have been able to compile most of the example files on my Mac, and my first subjective impression is that they run really fast. Of course those are very simple scenes, so I will investigate further and post the results.

    See the annoucements and comments here :


    http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?t=34163

    http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?t=34360
     
  13. bakno

    bakno

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    Hello

    I just found this thread.

    At baKno we use Runtime Revolution for our 2D games. We could not have done a better choice.

    I can tell you many good things about RR, but in a few words the best is flexibility and fast coding.

    Andres
     
  14. DaveyJJ

    DaveyJJ

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    If it had some built in physics (even basic like collisions and gravity) and some other game-specific function I'd use it for my 2D stuff too.
     
  15. bakno

    bakno

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    Hey Davey

    Not really, but it is fairly easy to implement.

    Think of RR as a media-centric development tool.

    Andres
     
  16. taumel

    taumel

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    I throw in my vote for BlitzMax if it doesn't have to run in the browser, then i would vote for Flash. It's fun to use BlitzMax. The IDE is horrible but i like the language, it's possibilities, it's open modular design, the hw acceleration, the wonderful generous licence, the weird community and it also comes with an Amiga history.
     
  17. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    Too bad you need to work with action script to play with flash :p
     
  18. taumel

    taumel

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    Yes indeed, the same story as with Unity.

    This was an official "i would like to see ruby inside unity" hint. :O)
     
  19. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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  20. taumel

    taumel

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    Before i read yours... :O)
     

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  21. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    Uh. Eh? Real funky looking, but you lost me somewhere between the beginning and end of your post :p
     
  22. GamesByJerry

    GamesByJerry

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    I may be a little late to the party but figured my addition to the thread may help others who stumble upon it.

    In as few words as possible: "Don't use revolution to create games"

    They don't use openGL for the graphics, which is really really hard to understand when they release revolution on mac, windows and linux. I could never get my head around the reason they created separate graphics engines for each OS release. Audio is just too depressing to get into, it's pathetic, worse than HyperCard's and that's how old now?

    Sorry for the ramblings. For those that want to know why you should listen to this forum post I can point you in the direction of a game done in revolution: http://www.gladiatortrials2.com

    While I am trying to be modest :oops:, I do believe that currently it is the height of games development in revolution. I had to wrestle with so many issues to get this game done, and while I am extremely proud of it, I don't look back on some of those moments with any satisfaction.

    Wrap it up: If you have a desire to do 2d games choose something other than revolution. If you have a desire to do 3d games... well so far I'm head over heels with Unity :D
     
  23. podperson

    podperson

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    Personally, I'd say don't use RunRev for *anything* except working with legacy HyperCard stacks. It is incapable of producing decent user interfaces (e.g. instead of actually producing native buttons it simply displays graphs of native buttons with text in the wrong font and size incorrectly positioned with them).
     
  24. mindlube

    mindlube

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    I meant to reply to this a while back. Runrev is interesting but not worthwhile for Game Development IMHO. I used it a while [edit- a few years] back for a business application that had literally dozens of screens (the hypercard stack metaphor really helped for that). I also wrote a C language external library for some of the business logic. An interesting tool for rapidly creating UIs and deploying to Mac+Win. I certainly liked it a lot better than RealBasic!
     
  25. lynn

    lynn

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    I have seen many good examples of UIs built with Runtime Revolution. There were many improvements though from RR 2.5.x -> RR 3.X, including a complete rewrite of the Linux version.

    RR does not provide an out of the box, all 3D experience though. But its really quote good for database front ends, business applications, anything dealing with Quicktime, etc. Ive seen one adventure game called Alida that sold very well in retail around the world.