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Relief Terrain Pack (RTP) v3 on AssetStore

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by tomaszek, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. GerySoelkner

    GerySoelkner

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Posts:
    7
    Hi Tom!

    The tutorial was written by me :) Glad you like it!

    Thanks for your answer on my last post. The parallax problem is solved by using 8 Layers. But i still have a problem when i try to paint a texture onto the terrain manually. I chose one of the 8 textures (shaders are compiled).
    Are there any other suggestions how to solve this problem?

    Here's a screenshot:
    $MfWtZdp.png
     
  2. gian-reto-alig

    gian-reto-alig

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Posts:
    756
    Becoming, you are now officially my hero (besides Tom, hes awesome anyway ;) ...

    It turns out my specular textures were just much too bright. I'm not 100% sure why they did work fine with RTP2, but not with RTP3, I can only guess Tom changed somehow the way spec values are calculated.

    And as if that would not be awesome enough.... seems my Minimap problem was also caused by the too high specularity... it looks more normal now.


    Thanks a lot

    Gian-Reto
     
  3. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    hmm, i have seen this before and it was easy to fix but i'm not sure if i remember correctly... i think you have something wrong in the LODManager. I assume you are using 8 layers in 1 pass, add pass should be deactivated then as otherwise rtp would expect to have 12 layers (if i am correct :/ ), so check if add pass is disabled... maybe post a screen of your LODManager if that does not solve the problem.
     
  4. Becoming

    Becoming

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    686
    Very glad to hear :) There was some control over the specular color on the individual layer settings with RTP2 if i remember correctly. You probably turned the specularity down and now you are more or less forced to do it the correct way and really setup the texture right in the first place. It may seem strange but its actually a lot better this way. Textures will be easier to reuse over many projects/scenes too.
     
  5. GerySoelkner

    GerySoelkner

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Posts:
    7
    Servus Becoming.

    Thanks for your answer! As i checked the LODManager settings i spotted my failure.... I forgot to check "add Pass"... shame on me :-(

    Many Thanks
     
  6. GerySoelkner

    GerySoelkner

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Posts:
    7
    Hi Goblox.

    For texture heightmaps/normals i suggest Crazybump. Its a tool to bake normals,displacement maps, AO. Its easy to handle with just a couple of settings.

    Greets Gery
     
  7. tomaszek

    tomaszek

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Posts:
    3,349
    Gian-Reto,

    I'm glad specularity problem has gone. I must admit that active users on the thread mean pure gold just because they in many cases help you much quicker than me (as I'm trying to deal with so many technical issues behind the scenes anyway).

    About your heightblend problem. Yes - pitch black as I gave you solution to remove "stability" code completely while I forgot it has normalization code inside - ouch...

    It's often the case that out of some user "complaining" RTP is pushed much further in terms of quality. I took another closer look at heightblend gradual change (for smoother blend edges at distance which looks much better). And suddenly I realised that the code was pretty bad because of linear interpolation between distance range while compression values were very unlinear. This caused nasty artifacts that bothered me for some time but I coudln't figure out where they came from. Now things should work rock solid.

    Unfortunately changes I made in RTP resolving this are more than a few lines of code to be replaced, so - it will be available when RTP3.1 is ready.

    This moment I can show you difference between modes in RTP3.1. For far distance I do ^2 compression which looks fine - not too blurry while we don't have artifacts from tiny pixels that came from hard blended elements (for example a small stone popping over sand).

    Close distance - ^4 compression:
    [​IMG]

    Close distance - ^8 compression (additional multiplication step):
    [​IMG]

    Close distance - ^16 compression (double multiplication step):
    [​IMG]

    Close distance - ^16 compression (double multiplication step) with fake AO applied:
    [​IMG]

    You have to remember that contrast of your height textures is very important factor. In case of first screenshot you'd tell - hey man I can hardly see any heightblend there - and this is because snow texture I tested this and rocks texture have small conrast (they are mostly grey w/o strong contrasting grayscale from white to black). So - harder edges can be achieved when you strech the contrast of textures. For example for your tarmac - use dark heightmap while for small rocks use much brighter heightmap with stronger contrast on elements that you'd like to popup hardly.

    Speaking about better AO - I was trying this today spending a few hours, unfortunately sometimes I need to say "stop". Solution was to complex and at the end not THAT convincing to put it into shader... Idea was to take normalmaps into account - I wanted implement solution that would check normal vector difference between blending layers to derive amount of AO there, but the problem is we've got too many permutations possible. In case of 4 layers we need to make at least 6 tests and mask them depending on coverage. I made this and it more or less worked, but wasn't THAT good to bother. But in case of 8 layers mode where I have to blend more layers number of tests to mask would increase insanely, so I skip the idea until I'll figure out something better.

    And remember that in RTP you've got dedicated tool (Window/Relief Tools/4 to 1...) that can bake specular alpha channel into a texture quickly (in Photoshop you have to click a few times more when you know how to do it).

    ATB, Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  8. gian-reto-alig

    gian-reto-alig

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Posts:
    756
    Tom, this really looks good. I am eagerly awaiting RTP 3.1 then and I will check my Texture Height maps to see how the contrast distribution is. Most probably the tarmac height texture needs tweaking, as I had to use the Extrude reduction on it to remove ugly artefacts anyway. I will the try to kind of "shift the contrast range down" to a darker scale for the tarmac.

    As much as I am really interested to see what AO Solution you can come up with in the future, I really like your "fake AO". In the image there it gives the image a slightly "comic", "outlines" like look... which is a very good thing in my book! As you give the option to tweak the "fake AO" effect a bit in RTP3, I'm pretty sure this gives Users like me the possibility to find just the right look for the Layer borders that matches their texture art style. Which might just be "semi-realistic" with outlines, in which case the last image looks just in place!

    Any ETA for RTP 3.1? I don't want to be impatient ;)


    Cheers

    Gian-Reto
     
  9. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    Hey Gian-Reto,

    Another very important tip i can give you for the best possible results with heightblending: Don't use the layer extrude reduction, especially not agressively. What it basically does is to brighten your heightmap and therefor you loose a lot of controll when you want other layers to be higher than the reduced one. Always change your heightmap instead. I am pretty sure you can achive the effect you want also with the current version of RTP.

    Here is a little illustration of the heightblending form the sideview, it should make clear why the contrast of the heightmaps is so important for sharp blending:

    $heightblend.jpg

    If you use layer extrude reduction it will move the layer towards the top and therefor you wont have much room for heightblending anymore. The layer extrudereduction is still usefull for debugging your heightmaps, it can help to findout how you have to change your heightmaps... after its done you should bring it all back to zero and turn it of in the LODManager because it uses some resources(very little i think but still, optimisation is always important).

    If you have further questions, just ask :)

    All the best,
    Peter
     
  10. topofsteel

    topofsteel

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Posts:
    870
    How can I turn off/disable perlin normal map? I'm trying to fine tune my global normal map and it's difficult to see with the perlin map.

    With a global normal map/perlin map, my directional light only illuminates the terrain at all through 180 degrees. This seems to be the case for both froward and deferred lighting, all 3 shadow settings of POM and the PM LOD. I applied the self shadowing script to the light just to see, it didn't have an effect. Thanks.
     
  11. Becoming

    Becoming

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    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    Dial down the "Perlin nomal" slider on the individual layers...

    I had no problems with normal maps, so my assumption would be that your global nomal map is using the wrong channels or one channel need to be inverted... probably the green channel as this is the one that is inverted in many programs...

    The selfshadowing script needs only to be applied to your dirrectional light when you are using POM with selfshadows and you are using deferred rendering.
     
  12. SOULSSAGA

    SOULSSAGA

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Posts:
    69
    HI ! Mister Tomas stobierski. How do you do . Happy Today ?

    Customer Order number: OR301341043 Here Speaking ...

    FIRST OF ALL : CONGRATULATIONS FOR THE MANY ACHIEVEMENTS YOU GOT IN THIS RELIEF TERRAIN V3 .
    Iv been working with your V2 Shader for the pass Months, With a Secondary Studio that have bought it.

    But i Decided to buy it for my own production personal usage.
    Also to Influence more properly This development Not Just as a Studio

    Would be for me particularly optimal to Have Cubemaps Feeding the Shader Reflection / Diffusion / Speculator.
    Even if i had to Waste one more or two drawcalls. No Problem with that ...

    The Project im Working is AAA+ Out of Unity And Needs Proper Environment Surround Bleeding into All The Terrains Shaders

    This by the means of Cubemaps / Wich is something that is very Standard in unity...
    And seriously your Shader Should Support them...
    So im Still in complete bewilderment how not ..



    So Point by point I would like some answers And my Questions for you are:

    1)
    So Am i Missing Something ?
    Why there is no Support for Cubemaps in your Shaders ?
    Can you explain me Why You didnt add it technically please ?

    2)
    Is it possible for me to Add manually Support for Cubemaps ?
    How do i edit the Code in order to allow it ?
    ( Even if it Becomes way too much Expensive ... Is a Requirement for my project here. )

    3)
    About SkyShop / Jove / Overall IBL / Backed Cubemaps Support ...
    How can i Integrate for example IBL Based / Cubemaps Environments To reflect properly And therefore bleed With your Terrain ?

    4)
    If you canot make support for Skyshop "ibls"... And of its reaaly out of your Conventions to "Try it" ...
    Can you please make for next updates :​
    - At Least make Support for Common CubeMaps to feed And interact with Reflection / Specularity / Diffusion of terrains ?
    - I mean - not Skyshop "ibl hdr" but AT LEAST Support Simple Cube Maps ?
    - Is that So Difficult ?​

    5)
    That Skyshop Cubemap Interaction In Reflection / Specularity / Difusion Bleeding isnt Reaaly Possible Still right now at v3.0
    Am i Right ?
    So What do you think in V3 "I can Do" In Codewise to make it on my own ? What should i tweek in the code to achieve it ?

    6)
    You said somewhere back in our many "happy talks" that, you could actually Study and allow skyshop to feed Relief terrain / Specular / reflection / Diffusion With Blending those ...
    - ( But WOuld Cust you Some Drawcalls, And as the Slots of features were completely full in your Relief Terrain Package - You would not going that way / Cause your customers want "Performance" with "all possible features" / So in order to not afect that motto , you would forget reflections from Ibl powered "for now" ...​

    - I understand. But How Much Exactly in terms of performance would that cust ? To Add Cubemap reflections ?
    - Can you Explain-me technically and show-me Visual proves, or even make a webplayer for us to see ?

    - And SkyShop ? How much heavy would really become a SKYSHOP interaction with your Project ?
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/184304-Marmoset-Skyshop-Image-Based-Lighting-amp-Tools-RELEASED

    Now that you are alot more richier than sometime ago / when we last talked / and with alot more time im sure ...
    Can you study "Please" That interaction for us "your customers" ..?
    Thank you .

    7)
    OK ! So Lets imagine we canot Do Have IBL in your Product At all... Not Touching in your code ...
    What are the Solutions You say WE CUSTOMERS must get in order to Overcome This limits in your product ?
    - Ok. Dont Need to Answer to that ... I Know the Answer already..

    Iv Gone Study and found Out a Series of Packages / Here About to be released in UnityStore ...

    Candela SSRR, Advanced Screen Space Ray Traced Reflections for Unity Available very soon.
    From Livenda Developers.http://www.livenda.com/

    Is a Development That can give me exactly the features i need For this SOULS AAA+ Project ..
    - Without Even Touch Your code ! Miraculousy ... At least for me, Those are :

    - Candela SSRR http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/208316-Candela-SSRR-Advanced-Screen-Space-Reflections-for-Unity
    Wich i hope it will give the exactly Proper AAA reflections / That your Shaders need / Not Even Touchng in your Code at all but with a Simple SSRR Screen Space reflection Tweek.

    - Candela GI (coming soon)
    Wich i hope will give me the proper ( Near far enviroment Props Gi Color blending ) in Your Relief Terrain Package.

    - Candela IBL (coming soon)
    Here i lost hopes that your Relief terain Pack will ever be "phisical lighting based" Any time ... Soo / but is has they say / As long as we live Hope Is the last to die...​
    - Of course there is Praying ... But i dont Think i will Resource to "Just that" right now ...

    And The Real Question Here for you :

    How is possible to Integrate such a SSRR Sistem as Candella Into Relief terrain ??
    Can you Achieve a Implementation or Supplementation of it in your Product System ?​

    8 )
    Terrains need Amplified GIGANTIC Mega Textures / on Splats to look Well.​
    And that means that "We Your Customers" Reaaly Need out of your Package to be Compatible with :​

    AMPLIFY TEXTURE.
    - The One and Only MEGATEXTURES Plugin for Unity:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/19...xture-Massive-Virtual-Texturing-for-Unity-Pro

    - SO How Is it Possible to Integrate Amplify Mega Textures Wit Relief terrain Pack ?

    9)
    WE REAALY NEED INTERACTION OF RELIEF TERRAIN SHADER METHODS WITH SHADERFORGE !
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/191595-Shader-Forge-A-visual-node-based-shader-editor
    How far From it become a reality Are we ?​



    I THINK THATS"JUST" IT FOR NOW !

    There will be more Customer product Support / Features Needs ...
    I will trow at you if i find some latter ...

    Good Luck with your Answers !
    Good Luck with your Development.

    Congratulations For the may Milestones Achievments
    Good luck / And efforts for next ones...​


    PS: DEBUG TIME !

    PHP:
    Assets/ReliefPack/Editor/ReliefTerrain/GeometryVsTerrainBlendEditor.cs(143,38): warning CS0618: `UnityEditor.Undo.RegisterUndo(UnityEngine.Object, string)' is obsolete: `Use Undo.RecordObject instead

    Assets/ReliefPack/Editor/ReliefTerrain/ReliefTerrainEditor.cs(912,54): warning CS0618: `UnityEditor.Undo.RegisterUndo(UnityEngine.Object, string)' 
    is obsolete: `Use Undo.RecordObject instead'
    This happens In Latest unity 4.3.0f4 You got this to Fix:​


    BEST REGARDS.

    THE SOULS SAGA STUDIO / TEAM ADMIN
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  13. larsbertram1

    larsbertram1

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Posts:
    3,543
    hey soulssage,

    you are really annoying!
    so please stop spamming this thread and have a look into compelementary lighting instead.

    lars
     
  14. Quen

    Quen

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Posts:
    21
    I really stopped ready soul's post at around half...

    Man, you knew the product from your studio, so you knew the features and what you were buying. If you don't like it: don't buy it!

    Tom is doing a great job fixing stuff and getting 3.1 ready to go. I do not know the history of the cubemap discussion, but your tone is going really the wrong way here. Tom is pushing his product in a way he thinks is the best for the product. If he listens to your needs, you are a lucky guy. But it is not his job to do what you tell him. So if he does not implement a feature you want: deal with it! Do it yourself or pay a developer to do so.

    Please choose your words a little more careful and you will be heared. Writing things like: "PS: DEBUG TIME !" and throwing an error message behind is just so rude.

    Greetings,
    Quen
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  15. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Posts:
    1,751
    The problem isn't his tone, i think his posts just need more nested levels is all!
     
  16. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Posts:
    1,751
    1) you're posting on a public forum, it's for everyone to read, if you don't want other people reading this, contact the author directly by email.
    2) You're actually not doing him a favor but (barely i assume) getting into ok licensing, this is an editor extention which means you need 1 license per programmer (and not 1 per studio), so unless the license they bought was specifically for you at that studio, you weren't allowed to use it untill you bought your own license
     
  17. SOULSSAGA

    SOULSSAGA

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Posts:
    69
    LOL THAT WAS ILLARIOUS ...

    Thanks so much for making me laugh...

    Also you got some "rights" there ...

    So i Hided the "toned" part with a very dim grey ... So just the developer can read : )

    GOOD Developers AS TOMAS are usto this ( and even worst ) "Grey Matters" ..
    But of course by private message...

    But i decided to just Fuzz a litle bit and say a big: "HI ! HELLO ! You got here "again" the worst customer in the world !"

    *giggles*

    Hows it sounds the tone now ?

    BEST REGARDS RONAN !

    SOULS
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  18. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Posts:
    1,751
    It actually sounds a lot better but i'm confused, what exactly do you want? (i mean a terrain is usually not going to "reflect" anything)
    Do you want to generate cubemaps OF the terrain (to display them on other objects) or do you want the shader to display a cubermap? The former is unrelated to RTP ( there are plugins that generates cubemaps of anything), the later is really a niche situation, pretty much no terrain reflects the environment
     
  19. SOULSSAGA

    SOULSSAGA

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Posts:
    69
    Every Terrain refects And integrates Phisically With the Enviroment !

    Actually / with Masks Intensities / some parts Are more reflecting more than others ...

    But RTPv3 it needs Cubemaps / Specular / reflection / Difuse color blending for emulation of Correct Bounce backs / that Are more phisically based.

    On Overall .. if you are with doubts ...

    Better Look at what SKYSHOP developer / monkeyScience / And on why so countless hours developing this amazing Terrain Shader

    Heres a ScreenShot of it :

    [​IMG]

    And here Some Results :

    [​IMG]


    The Fact Is that RIGHT NOW : We have to chose betwen USING SKYSHOP TERRAIN SHADER / OR RTP.

    - Therefore we CANOT use IBL / or even Light probes ( Unity DeFault Method ) For Global Local Better Lightning.

    - Even if this Feature Of Phisical Based Atributes in RTP / or at least as SkyShop Integration is "too dificult"

    THAT IS THE FACT ABOUT / HOW DIFICULT APLY PHISICAL BASED LIGHTNING ON RTP
    / And The reality Also About Putting Phisical Properties Of SkyShop IN RTP ...

    BUT THE MAIN FACT IS THAT TO MATCH PROBE LIGHTNING WE DONT REAALY ACTUALLY NEED ALL THAT

    - If Skyshop / or JOVE / Or Other Sistem / even Unity Does the "LOCAL OR GLOBAL LIHT PROBES"

    - - WE JUST NEED Of rtp THE CUBEMAP SUPPORT - For Difusion Emission Within the TERRAIN_ReflColor

    - - This Integration with Light Probes AT LEAST could be Integrating with A Simple CUBEMAP SLOT On Reflection and Specular.

    - - - And that Far away from a Full IBL Solution / Adding CUBEMAPS to feed Screenref in Specular Reflection is Something EASY to do.

    - - - - AND THAT DOES the Partial Integration of CUBEMAPS to AffectTERRAIN LIGHTNING CHANGES.
    Localy And Globally By Zones.

    ---

    Now This is All Theory RIGHT ?

    BUT TECHNICALLY! Basicaly WHY THERE IS NEED OF AT LEAST CUBEMAP REFLECTION ?
    Asap for now ..
    As well Physical based Lightning in a terrain ? Latter ? ...

    Well Because exactly is on terrains On the severall tipes of rocks And materials .
    IN TERAINS Is Were There is the Biggest concentration of Different reflectivity / Specular Properties..

    You Can find all this Properties In the Chart bellow in a Terrain / So Physical Based lightning is a Most in Terrain development...


    [​IMG]


    Of course there are SSRRS and GI Solutions now outhere etc etc ...
    like http://www.livenda.com/ and other Screen Based solutions

    But im talking about this product Needs Comparing to Others.

    And if you think on Skylightning / The Shaderw parameters SHOULD REACT To Enviroment changes.
    In Reflection / Specular / Difusion And Light Probes.
    Physically Specially. With Diffuse Blending
    If not At least just in reflection Specular.

    ---

    AGAIN NOTHING OF THIS IS NEW ... SkyShop guys Already did it.

    If you think How the Terrain material Layers SHOULD React in Diferent Times of Day

    You will see why Those Properties in the Chart Above, are so needed to be Destributed tru the Terrain on a Mask Base
    ----------

    Currently Only Skyshop Terrain Shader does that properly...
    But Of course we still miss All the others RTPv3 Features...

    Wich Puts RTPv3 In Conflict with IBL / Light Probes / Shading Solutions ...
    That Obvious we all need for the degree of Quality This Can give us ...

    And betwen choosing in using IBL / Light Probes Skyshop or JOve Sistems ... OR RTP ?
    As customer Should you reaaly have to chose ?

    Should RTPv3 be in conflict with Current Lightning Solutions ?

    ----

    Answer is NO. For me One of the first things that should be fixed in this development / is to make it compatible with current BAKED DYNAMIC LIGHTNING SOLUTIONS :

    - As SKYSHOP / As Candella / As Jove / as DynamicGI

    Of course - I am talking about were the future of this development SHOULD HEAD .

    ----

    But if you talk about NOW / RTPv3.0 Current STATUS.


    To Have compatibility with Light Probes We just need to implement Simple Cubemaps Support.

    AND HOW TO DO THIS ?

    We just need to Change The Reflection colors A B Here / blending or replacing it with a Text Cube in Worldrefl Rgb

    // reflection //
    TERRAIN_ReflColorA ("Reflection color A (Emissive RGB)", Color) = (0.5,0.5,0.5,0)
    TERRAIN_ReflColorB (" Reflection color B (Diffuse RGBA)", Color) = (0.0,0.5,0.9,0.3)

    TERRAIN_ReflDistortion (" Reflection distortion", Range(0, 0.2)) = 0.1
    TERRAIN_ReflectionRotSpeed (" Reflection rotation speed", Range(0, 2)) = 0.3
    TERRAIN_FresnelPow (" Fresnel pow", Range(0.25,16)) = 2
    TERRAIN_FresnelOffset (" Fresnel offset", Range(0,0.9)) = 0.25
    // range (0..2) - 0-1 -> 0 .. detail_texture.a (GlossDry), 1-2 -> detail_texture.a .. 1
    TERRAIN_LayerReflection0123 (" Layer reflection (XYZW - 0123)", Vector) = (1,1,1,1)​

    And instead of having those slots sampling the Emissive Rgb "colors" To read the EMISSIVE DIFUSE from a ScreenRef map

    Using a Simple code as this to make TERRAIN_ReflColorA TERRAIN_ReflColorB To read the
    o.Emission = texCUBE (_Cube, IN.worldRefl).rgb;

    As below in a simple shader is :

    Shader "Example/WorldRefl" {
    Properties {
    _MainTex ("Texture", 2D) = "white" {}
    _Cube ("Cubemap", CUBE) = "" {}
    }
    SubShader {
    Tags { "RenderType" = "Opaque" }
    CGPROGRAM
    #pragma surface surf Lambert
    struct Input {
    float2 uv_MainTex;
    float3 worldRefl;
    };
    sampler2D _MainTex;
    samplerCUBE _Cube;
    void surf (Input IN, inout SurfaceOutput o) {
    o.Albedo = tex2D (_MainTex, IN.uv_MainTex).rgb * 0.5;
    o.Emission = texCUBE (_Cube, IN.worldRefl).rgb;
    }
    ENDCG
    }
    Fallback "Diffuse"
    }

    That is Simple CubeMap reflection - No Phisical based Shading Interaction ...
    BUT ALREADY DOES THE TRICK of implementing CUBEMAPS.

    This IS So simple to do in RTP. That I reaaly Dont understand why in 5 months Asking for this / havent still be improved ..

    Now this is More than possible Expecialy with the New UBBERSHADERS in unity 4.3
    Were you can even have a Checkbox and chose if want CubeMap or Simple Color in WorldRef Support...

    - UBBERSHADERS IN UNITY 4.3 Are also a Big Method to Allow Compiling "Just the features" For this Shader That The user needs

    Using #pragma multi_compile shader variants And using MaterialPropertyDrawers with do [MaterialToggle(FANCY_ON)] before a float shader property, SO SHADER FEATURES display it as a checkbox;

    So Shader Compilation is Easier and overall this big Giant code of RTPv3 Does not Spend So many resources ( just the ones we need )
    - And therefore we can add to it MORE FEATURES on user demand THIS is Anothersomething Extremely NEEDED...


    SOUS STUDIO ADMIN / THE SOULSSHINE ONLINE PRODUCTION TEAM

    PS: FOR WHOS WOUNDERING WHAT IM TRYING TO DO TERRAINWISE ...
    With all this Requirements ( and alot more from all other kind of Terrain lightning extensions ) ...
    ...bellow Some 3D TERRAIN SHOTS in my Production that Im ( slowly ) porting to Unity

    You can bet i reaaly need more MultiExtension features out of unity than today is ....
    So i have to stretch some Common limits here ...

    - Thats why i picked on the few money i have and payed for a Most Evolved extension as RTP to fit its Expectations as product.

    *ENJOY THE SOULS PRODUCTION TERRAIN DEVELOPMENT SCENERYS*


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  20. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

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    Jun 29, 2012
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    1,751
    You're mixing things, you're mixing cubemap REFLECTIONS with IBL, IBL is usefull on a terrain, a simple cubemap (which doesn't do lighting but only reflection) is not.
     
  21. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    SoulSaga, actually this conversation should just stop there, its ok to ask your money back but its not ok to post in that way.

    Also i have to say, while skyshop is a good product its just a bit overrated for terrains, baked lighting(that includes IBL) is better than the realtime IBL and even monkeyscience states that himself on his forum thread. This is also the reason i suggested to Tom to implement custom lightmapping instead of going after this IBL hype. His product supports IBL already, just bake it into the colormap or use a lightmap and this way you can get far better results than the skyshop shader. Another thing i dont get is the huge number of features you expect, no engine out there does all the things you mention at once. You want mega textures with RTP? Use multiterrains, RTP is great with them and you can optimise the scene at the same time. You probably also want some hot icecream but i cant help you with that.

    You should really stop whining and start to learn the tools you use. The time would be better invested.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  22. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

    Joined:
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    I just purchased 8 more copies of RTP, however i don't know why but i can't seem to find optimized netcode, realtime raytracing and farm scale distributed rendering, can i get those in the next version for tommorow?
    please! thanks!
     
  23. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

    Joined:
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    But what you want IS NOT cubemaps, you want lighting based on the cubemap which has nothing to do with simple cubemaps (which is just using them for reflection) so what you want is actually very large unlike cubemaps, it's like recoding skyshop into RTP, just as hard as the reverse.
     
  24. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    ROFL!! Hey i got 16 copies and still run out of coffee all the time! Nah seriously, we should leave the development of RTP to Tom, after all he made the best terrain shader already, and he is still working on improvements.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  25. SOULSSAGA

    SOULSSAGA

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Posts:
    69
    COME ON ... CUBEMAPS Slots ... Such a simple THING. That This Product doesnt have !

    You henchmen guys are Over reacting and have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

    ALL I want IS Technical Answers FROM THE DEVELOPER.

    Out of my 9 Questions Before
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/20...n-AssetStore?p=1422304&viewfull=1#post1422304

    / And some help with Porting the Code ...

    Mind your Business everyone.

    Best regards.

    SOULS



    OFCOURSE / Just Simple cubemaps reflection Works ..
    Even with Skyshop generated Cubemaps Skies.

    No need For expensive stuffs as IBL Phisical lightning To emulate better the environment bleed proper effect.
    As its just to adjust The overall Terrains to local or Global Lightning Probes.

    Its INCREDIBLE... The "Atonishing" autor of this shader Overlook such simple thing

    lol..

    REGARDS PEOPLE
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  26. topofsteel

    topofsteel

    Joined:
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    Posts:
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    The perlin problem I was having is related to the new .meta system in U4.3. The layer slider did nothing, even removed the RTP script, the perlin noise remained. I had the same mesh's in a different scene, different material (not using RTP). That meta system may cause a lot of problems for people.

    The normal map on the other hand was exported from World Machine, thoughts?

    Posts like that are a symptom of a lot bigger problem than cubemaps!
     

    Attached Files:

  27. blueivy

    blueivy

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    Mar 4, 2013
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    The marmoset picture you posted is done with the help of physically based shaders. Something that can be added on top of this asset I assume. He didn't "overlook" ibl because that's not what this asset was made for.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  28. lazygunn

    lazygunn

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    Wow, mind blown. I think I know who this guy is but yeah, i wouldnt get any more involved with this. Btw after you have bought the asset i'm available on a per license basis to add a cubemap slot to your copy of the shader, my rates are good
     
  29. tomaszek

    tomaszek

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    As usual I can not really get the typical SOULSSAGA wording. Too much, too emotional, too offensive.

    If I ever misleaded customer with information I put on the AssetStore page or on my forum thread or in my pdf documentation - such customer would be perfectly right asking for refund, but I've never stated features that are not present. So - I've never and nowhere inform anybody that I intend to put cubemaps sampling in RTP (no matter if they would act as reflection maps or as diffused IBL lighting source). So - complaining about missing features is funny. RTP has sourcecode included. If you'd like more - hire somebody that could stand your rude attitude (I'm talking to SOULSSAGA now) and ask for help if you can't achieve thisbasic simple thing as cubemapping is yourself...

    I'd rather focus on eatingbugs on my breakfast (citation). This way my current customers that bought 8 copies and don't complain (because they are just real about production process) could be sure I'm steadily working on the product and I really appreciate their serious approach to the business. If somebody buy 1 copy I treat him the same way seriously and I appreciate this the same. The only problem is I can not negotiate this way. I explained before my point of view about implementation and what I'd like to implement and what not. It's my right. Customer's right is to not buy as I don't misinform anybody.

    At least - SOLULSSAGA does me a favour pumping up the thread artificial way (maybe he's double agent somebody could ask ? no - I haven't ask him for making me this favour) so my sales stay intact... which I also appreciate :D.

    The problem is - reading 4 pages of posts is wasting time I'd like to spend with my family more than arguing with unbalanced people...

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
    Trung23 likes this.
  30. tomaszek

    tomaszek

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    I'd rather suspect that globally set shader variables stay persistent so you can not really dial down perlin normals. As always I gladly invite you for a skype session to trace the problem.

    Kindest Regards, Tom
     
  31. norby

    norby

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    Jul 10, 2006
    Posts:
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    Good work Tom
    i like the way you stay professional :D

    Norby
     
  32. lmtm

    lmtm

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    Thank you Rcalt, Milos
     
  33. GerySoelkner

    GerySoelkner

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
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    Hi Tom,

    I have another 2 questions.

    As you fixed my problem with the shaders (added some more textures and works perfect) i painted some terraintextures via the painting tool.The thing is that i can´t see any parallax effect on the painted textures. When snow is added it shows the correct structure according to the given informations (well i don´t know if your using texture or texture-heightmap info for snow...)
    How can i get my painted textures extruded?

    And my second problem is that on step falloffs in my terrain the texture is streched. Here´s a screenshot of what i mean: $Bildschirmfoto 2013-11-18 um 13.52.59.png
    Any suggestions about that?

    Thank you in advance!

    Regards Gery
     
  34. metaleap

    metaleap

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
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    Somebody ban Soulssaga already.. I'm afraid he will demotivate every single last great talented asset coder out there with his needy entitled uneducated verbal-diarrea :roll: truly, I've seen his crap too many times in too many threads I'm following. Really disconcerting.
     
  35. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
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    Servus Gery, it just noticed you are from Austria too ;)
    About the stretching there are 3 ways to deal with it:
    1) use the vertical texture, this is not perfect as it still is stretched but it can cover it a bit.
    2) use triplanar shading, this comes at the cost that you have to use 2 passes and you can not use POM with it.
    3) cover the stretched parts with meshblending, this is the most elegant solution but also the one with the most effort.

    Good luck and let us know how its going!

    LG,
    Peter
     
  36. tomaszek

    tomaszek

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
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    Gery, There is extensive troubleshoot section in the pdf docs. I encourage to find the possible things to check there.

    1. check your heightmaps if they are well combined (check if combined heightmap textures are OK).
    2. check if your global colormap doesn't have black ahlpa channel
    3. check your parallax settings

    About stretching - it's issue for every top planar mapped terrain. Use triplanar mode for shader or use geom blend painting tool to put additional geometry on slopes, export it, unwrap and import again. It's described a bit in pdf docs.
    I'm intending to make a tutorial on it, too in the future. These days I've got hard time to manage checks in U4.3 that broke many things. So, please be forgiving a bit while I'd like to manage new release ASAP then think about more video tutorials.

    Kindest Regards, Tom
     
  37. GerySoelkner

    GerySoelkner

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Posts:
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    Hi Tom, Sers Peter.

    Thank you for your help! I´ll gona check it out with the meshblending-tool. Seems to be the best for now. I´ll stay tuned for further video tutorials but take you time! I can imagine you have pretty much work now!

    All the best!
    Gery
     
  38. lazygunn

    lazygunn

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
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    You dealt with the crazy person very gracefully and amusingly Tomas, i commend you. Do you give me rights to add cubemap slots to your shader for users that need cubemap slots by the way? I am very adept at adding cubemap slots, i have projects full of them, they dont do anything yet but i don't understand why not, im probably not doing it the proper way. Not enough indenting and bold and random italics.

    I'm following this thread keenly for the problems that occur and their solutions and it's a bit of a goldmine of terrain making goodness, other projects i obligated myself to do keep me from getting to it but Botumys' output is already spectacular and i'm getting a bit impatient now! Anyways cheers for the support in this thread and i'll pop in every so often to tell everyone how much I like all this
     
  39. negativecap

    negativecap

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Posts:
    98
    Ok, so I love RTP3. Had to say it, it's fantastic. Will use.

    I wanted to see if anyone has any ideas for me, if this feature exists in RTP or RSP and I don't know about it, or is even doable in the first place. I do not know much about writing shaders. I hate to try to add something to Tom's plate, and perhaps this is a job for someone else (if someone wants to write me a shader let me know) (or me if I can figure out shaders properly I suppose). I have the Relief Shaders Pack, but what I really need is a shader for properly blending detailed larger terrain meshes (rocks, caves, etc.) that use the same tiling textures, UV blending, superdetail and params from RTP (so as to look like part of the terrain), uses a method (like this?) for hiding UV seams, and uses either a per-mesh overlay texture for detail or (perhaps better?) world-z or some kind of projection based detail blending for wear/edge/AO/moss/etc... I think this would be a killer companion to RTP, so that we could use detailed rocks and cliffs, without a separate texture for each, that UV blended and looked killer... What y'all shader pros think?
     
  40. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    I think the tools/shaders are already there, look into RTP on mesh and special meshblend shaders(some of them have to be unzipped)...
     
  41. tomaszek

    tomaszek

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Posts:
    3,349
    Hi lazygunn,

    As far as you don't intend to redistribute anything from my tech it's just fine for me if you'd like to customize my shaders for your needs or for somebody ask you ( check his RTP invoice pdf first :D ). That's why I'm very on the side of giving source code. Many shader developers give you compiled versions w/o possibility (or making it realy hard) to change even 1 line of code you dramaticaly need to change (and that's often situation I'd say). Of course I'd like to make developer life easier that's why I carefully listen to their needs...

    Adding cubemaps to RTP would give you a bit hard time because:

    1. You'll need free texture sampler. That's easiest even in 8 layers mode when you turn of lightmapping you've got 2 samplers free to be used for specific features. But beware - many RTP features uses tex samplers and you can run out of it (shader won't compile).

    2. The most hard part for now is that you'll need to gain 3 texture interpolators (for INTERNAL_DATA macro) which are quite extensively used. Look for Input struct used - I squezeed it a lot to use all vector components available. Fortunately, actually there is solution. When you compile with pragma debug you will get access to pure shader and you'll have full control over it. Nice thing is that COLOR1 to COLOR7 semantics can be used. If you're able to make usage (combine 2 to encode 16 bits floats there because they're low res 8 bits fixed type) to put INTERNAL_DATA there (will be easier than reconfiguring interpolators already used by RTP) you're home. You can sample anywhere cubemap from world space normal vector you get (INTERNAL_DATA stores values that are needed to recalc from tangent space normals in fragment function to world space normal). Put it for example at the end where you can add this to o.Emissive shader output.

    The main reason I don't like dealing with this now is I'd have to resign from surface shaders and use them precompiled. That's dangerous in case Unity will change anything in their ligting manipulation "behind the scenes (in surface shader output resolved). Saving 3 float texture interpolators w/o using these free COLOR ones would be very hard if possible now. If at any point Unity will give me opportunity to use all COLOR semantics in Input struct in surface shaders I'll make cubemapping myself (just because writing "IBL lighting" in product page is just marketing wise...).

    More on the theme is I feel that IBL isn't necessary. Superior quality one can achieve using lightmapping. Now it can be done using Beast (slow and I'm not sure if configurable) or baking ambient bouced lighting info into global colormap. The problem for now is that we can not emulate it 100% precise because global colormap is by default multiplicative while correct ambient lighting should be emissive. That's why I'll add even better solution than IBL diffuse (I know I'm doing bad marketing now... :) ) but that's true. Peter's right reminding that even monkeyscience devloper admited this - baked IBL is better that cubemap. In RTP3.1 I'll introduce emissive global texture where you can use baked (in mental ray or even free blender) very high quality diffuse lighting (it's easy as you can easily export terrain model to obj for such usage). More on this - as this is not cube mapped I'll think about something good enough to achieve using this emissive map + complementary lighting (we don't like to loose details for areas not lit directly). Either some trickery with complementary lighting there or solution suggested years ago by valve ("6 point cubemaps" managed from 6 colors - that would be easy to tweak realtime - so no static solution).

    Talking about real reflections. What does it mean - real ? If you'd like to make them realy dynamic where for example water is present - do it in geom blend (sticked to terrain) patches of water (running, refractive with droplets and all this RTP fancy features) shader. It's much simplier to tweak it comparing to RTP main shader. If you'd like to achieve better specularity of some terrain materials - use RTP reflection feature which will allow you to simulate very good illusion of view dependent shading - it's kind of fresnel (with power and offset). So - you can get both - very high quality for diffuse and quite convincing specularity with fresnel reflections. The only thing to do for RTP3.1 (and I'll do it) is this global emissive texture in opposite to global colormap which is multiplicative.

    This is also maybe good moment to mention the list of improements you can expect in RTP3.1:

    1. More flexible UV blend that allows you to actually replace texture at far distance (now it's multiplied)

    2. Presets can be saved as .asset files to get more control and they can be now reused across different scenes.

    3. All Unity fog types available now

    4. Independent tiling for multiple terrains on the scene (and with this you can have terrain tiles of different size on one scene)

    5. per layer brightness/saturation for UV blend. Global, master brightness / saturation for whole detail layers (you can then adjust saturation of all terrain at once).

    6. better "voxel" triplanar shader - I added caustics there. It's probable that I'll enable somehow geom blending there, too. I'm discussing possible solution with Amfu (TerraVol developer - RTP works with this out-of-the box and will work even better).

    7. emissive routing. Here's the plan, but I believe I'll include this tweak in RTP3.1. I'd like to make it possible to decide how much every layer will be "passive color" (like now) and emissive thru some new slider. Let's say we'd like to make 1 layer emissive - lava and with proper hieghtblending we could achieve effect of cracked terrain with emissive lava seen inside cracks. If I'll figure out how to use fakeAO calculations smart I can turn it into emissive too - so we'd have there lava crack glowing out-of-the-box. Nice idea isn't it ? That's Becoming idea (yep, his head IS inspiration goldmine :)) !

    8. opportunity to make water also emissive, then - slowly flowing lava will be also possible on the terrain, too :).

    9. I'm thinking hard about missing aniso filtering. But if we could compromise parallax effects we can bring aniso back. not sure if possible in triplanar, but possible for sure in normal mode. If we can agree twice detail/normal texture fetches we could even do it w/o compromising parallax (PM/POM and refraction). That will be probbly in further release as now I'll restore anioso in simple cases for users that might miss it quite much (depending on their camera position over flat terrain).

    10. fixed heightblending. More stable, less artifacts, better gradual fade from close to far. User will be able to enable additional sharpening steps in case he'd like to have very sharp edges between detail layers (thing that I removed in RTP3 comparing to RTP2).

    11. I'd like to try saving texture samplers rearranging them. I'm not sure if this will be included in RTP3.1, but samplers are always mostly welcome. We can think about features like destruction masks (dynamically burnt terrain from a texture where we can indicate places something "exploded"), etc.

    12. Hole cutting. It's almost ready. Unfortunately I couldn't use previous idea and had to implement it, but I found just right place where we can store hole mask - it's alpha channel of global colormap. Extrude reduction is used in almost whole range while completely black alpha channel means: cut a hole). I have to write a script that will help people setup entrance collider (we have to disable terrain collider at entrance point). This looks like this now:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You'll be using global colormap painting new option "cut holes" and that's how it works - you "paint holes". The edges we can easily managed using geom blend. I'll post something when the feature is ready.

    13. For roadmap RTP3.1 + I'd like to let people use substances runtime. That will reduce even 20-30MB of built size (important for web) for 8 layers of terrain detail textures with their normalmaps and heightmaps. But it would require rearranging huge part of code so I'm skipping this in incoming release.

    ATB, Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  42. tomaszek

    tomaszek

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
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    nativecap,

    The feature you'd like to get is already there and is basic RTP functionality. You can blend either separate objects (like rocks so we hide intersection at their bottom) or just "paint" something (placing new mesh easily on the terrain surface). Then you blend edges et volia - you can get virtually unlimited details on the terrain surface that looks like..terrain surface (not separate meshes).

    Use meshblend shaders that are marked _COMPLEX - they have almost every feature used in regular RTP shader and can by "synced" with underlying terrain perlinmap or global colormap.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  43. virror

    virror

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    Feb 3, 2012
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    2,905
    Yay, seems like some really great features you have there in 3.1!
    -Save presets, really useful!
    -Holes, also really great feature, will this work on top of all the other stuff, no extra sampler or anything needed since you use the colormaps alpha?
     
  44. tomaszek

    tomaszek

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
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    Sure and takes no time (maybe only mobile platforms don't like clipping pixels) and we've got it already here with resources currently used anyway.

    Tom
     
  45. negativecap

    negativecap

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
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    98
    @Becoming - Thanks, will take a look! Is that what you used for the demo?
    @Tomaszek - Cool, will take a peek. I knew it was in there somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  46. Becoming

    Becoming

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Posts:
    686
    yes, on the steep slopes, i was also going to add some overhangs but then i got very busy with client work and i still am, so the demo will be a bit delayed... might be good opportunity to showcase the emissve features of 3.1. I am really excited about these new features, i think this will be the last tiny bit that makes RTP perfect. Very realistic lighting will be possible and... vulcanos are going to rock everybodys socks, i'm sure!

    All the best,
    Peter
     
  47. lazygunn

    lazygunn

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
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    Thanks for the info! I did literally mean just add a cubemap slot, doesnt do anything (im not sure that guy was so sure though), but you probably knew that and then went on to explain very well a bunch more very useful stuff for getting the most out of the shader, even silly jokes become useful for this thing!
     
  48. botumys

    botumys

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
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    Tomaszek, if you need beta tester... :) (and The cut hole tool is exactly what I need for my next project!)
     
  49. lazygunn

    lazygunn

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    Jul 24, 2011
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    Botumys, a little question as you're experienced with this stuff - I'm supposed to be doing something for an event for the Christmas period and I thought it would be a perfect excuse to get all the stuff I really want to use together, so that involves RTP too for a small terrain. While everyone typically works at different rates, how long does it take you to create a terrain, say, the size of a football field, with some decent detailing? Is it a silly question as a terrain could mean any sort of thing depending on locale?

    I just wanna know if I can have a serious effort of that kind without my coworker guy going mad at me for finishing something an hour before it goes live again
     
  50. OneShotGG

    OneShotGG

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Posts:
    225
    Hi, new rtp owner here. I am loving the asset so far but I had sort of a general workflow question.

    I've created a great terrain using zbrush and world machine, imported it into unity, and set up rtp with it. My question pertains to how I should go about handling my mountains?

    Should I export the terrain into zbrush and extract the mountains into separate meshes or just paint textures onto them in unity(using terrain painting)?

    What gives the best result? The most professional result?

    Secondly, I assume the only way to do overhangs and cliffs is to model them correct? Do you just use tiled textures with externally modeled cliffs or do you uv map and do a traditional mesh texture?

    Was a lot of vertex painting used for the demo island?

    Lastly, will we ever be able to tile layers separately?