Photon Bolt

@Stanchion - It's pretty obvious no one at Photon has actually tested the website version of the advanced tutorial for Bolt. As I feared, the walk-through is riddled with errors.

Hopefully you are busy coming up with more and better tutorials, so this one can be put to rest. If you're not ... then maybe spend a little time fixing this one.

And if you're not going to fix it ... don't pull it. It still gives noobs like me some helpful insights. Just put up a notice in bold letters in front that the tutorial should be used more as a guide to the working code that comes with the plugin, and users should not expect all the scripts in the web tutorial to work if they are typed in as is.

 

I am working on a new version, along with a new version of the actual sample, but it takes time as the documentation for the advanced tutorial is over 100 pages when pasted into an editor, and I am adding important things to the sample like not being able to shoot through buildings, and make the bazooka actually do damage.

 

@Stanchion - We're in the process of making a game similar to Risk of Rain, and we're wanting to set it up where one player hosts up to three other people for a total of four players max together in a game. The "client" players would just enter the IP of the host player along with the port, so no need for any matchmaking or anything like that.

Before buying this, my two questions are:

• Is Photon Bolt the right fit for my game?
• Since a user will be the host, are there any fees I'll be charged for the use of this beyond the initial purchase price of the asset? (It's fine if there are; I just want to know ahead of time so I can plan for it).

 

It sounds like Bolt could work for you. It offers the sort of "listen server" setup that you want.

You may be able to get away with not needing to pay for anything to maintain that setup, but the one issue you may run into is some users having NAT issues that prevent them from being able to easily connect. Bolt has UPnP functionality and you can direct players to manually forward ports, but you still may run into situations where you would benefit from relay servers to help connect players. Bolt primarily steers you toward using the included Photon Cloud support for this purpose which can carry some fees.

That said, the simple answer to your question is that there are not any required fees beyond the purchase price.

 

Much of the time clients will not be able to connect to the host without using the Cloud or Steam integration. For specifics on pricing contact support@boltengine.com

 

After reading your and chasepettit's replies, I'm assuming you mean clients aren't able to connect due to a lack of technical knowledge on their part rather than a limitation of Photon Bolt. Meaning it's just an issue of people needing to do port forwarding, allowing the program through firewalls, and adding exceptions for the program to antivirus?

 

That can help but there are more issues that can often prevent connection.

 

Hi, I am new to Bolt. Do you have any documentation on how pooling works with bolt, or know of any pooling assets that support bolt out of the box? Thanks!

 

@tcmeric Yes https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ujORLsKiX6B8GWoLI/edit#heading=h.pkh9we7h85lq

 

Bolt 1.1.0.0 is released
Added: New "Welcome" experience and installer.
Added: BoltNetwork.SetNetworkSimulation method to change the loss/ping simulation locally on one device.
Added: Debug and release can now be switched between using just the Bolt Settings window.
Fixed: Punchthrough issue introduced in a previous release
Fixed: Issue with events sometimes being re-used too early.
Fixed: Issue with smoothing of quaternion properties
Fixed: Header text for inspectors should now be readable in the Unity light skin.
Fixed: Console being toggled on any key when "None" was selected as the toggle key.
Fixed: Issue with the float number formatting in the Bolt compiler on Unity 2017 under certain cultures causing compilation errors.
Fixed: Memory leak when using commands
Changed: "Instantiate Mode" setting has been revamped, you can now
select between "Per Prefab", "Server Only" and "Everyone".

 

Photon Bolt 1.1.0.2 is released:
Fixed: Miscellaneous Photon Cloud improvements and fixes
Fixed: Quaternion state property with smoothing
Changed: iOS Xcode improvements

If you're currently using Photon Bolt please leave us a review on the asset store, we would love to have your feedback.

 

Hello,
Is Photon Bolt really deprecated?
It's not available in the asset store and marked as deprecated in my download area.
Any hint is welcome.

 

That's because when Photon took it over they killed it and re-made it in PUN's image. Where Bolt had free options, they took it away making you have to pay for stuff just like the regular Photon. I made the mistake getting and month later photon took it over. I had been involved in projects that used it and was part of the community before buying it for myself. Photon proceeded to kill off the zeus server. Many revolted and cried foul...Photon stated they were not making any money of it so they have to kill zeus off and remove all the free features and make it pay to use like photon. That way you had to pay them money which I can only assume was to cover what they paid the dev. Every update Photon has provided they have continued to strip out features that made bolt what it, forcing you into Photon's banks while they dipped in your pockets all the while claiming it was for the best. If you search around you can read their side vs the community they pissed off.

Whatever they say about how they need more money and free is bad, the fact remains they ruined BOLT from what it was.

It should be known to all as as long as you don't upgrade to the new pay version you still can use the old Bolt with zeus server and avoid photon digging into your pockets for more money.
They used to offer continuous use of 100CC without paying them more but removed that realizing they forgot to take away more features to make it more pay to use.

The even more side jokes are the fact all the tutorials and documentation they lifted from the old bolt and pasted on their website is so old and outdated by years it extremely hard to follow for those without a lot of networking experience or knew how things worked before photon destroyed it.

Old Bolt did have it's bugs but it was actively developed and we all had access to the GIT source for constant updates and did not have to pay to use it.

 

No, looks like there is some issue with the asset store. We'll get it fixed asap.

 

It shows up on the "new" store. We'll figure out what's going on.
https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/photon-bolt-83233

 

New version takes away the 100 CC we had and now makes us pay to use what we already had/paid for. For use who loved what Bolt was are constantly finding things taken away that were free and now we have to pay for.

The real Bolt is dead. This is just a paid trial asset now.

 

What makes you think it's dead? Looks to me like it's still being actively supported and it costs the same as PUN, right?

 

It seems to me that you are not familiar with this this asset or it's history. I suggest you look at the reviews and do a google search to see for yourself the story.

The TLDR version:

Bolt as it is now is a shell of its former self, they killed it and made it a photon clone.
Bolt now is just a marketing name and no reflection of what it used to be.

The hard truth now is it feels like they are using the Bolt name to simply market a paid trial that requires further payments ongoing to keep using. To some of us, this is seen as a crash grab, but to the company, this is to increase their bottom line, our hard truth, they are in this to make money, that's capitalism. For those of us who have owned this asset before Photon bought it find more and more features taken away and having to pay Photon more money.

It's tough to understand the logic behind a paid trial that's now being offered. I question the use of the Bolt name because this version is nothing compared to Bolt used to be. They do own it so they can do what they want, they paid for it but some of us also PAID FOR BOLT which they killed and converted to PUN. Sure this may sting those of us who supported Bolt before capitalism and corporate bottom lines take features away. It's worth noting that "Even it you buy it, after so many months, you are left with an unusable asset unless you pay them more money on an ongoing business.

For us that loved Bolt for the networking freedom it offered by being able to control both the server and the player networking with unlimited CCU. The real Bolt will be missed.
"All good things must come to and end".

So you see, to those of us who help Bolt grow feel differently as this is essentially no longer BOLT but photon with the BOLT Logo with much more costs and it's now become a pay to use asset.

 

There's no technical reason why we can't stand up Bolt's listen server on our own hardware with public IP, and pay nothing more to Exit Games beyond what we paid for Bolt from the AS. The extra fees and CCU limits you're referring to only apply if one is using Exit Games' servers to host the server side of the game. Bolt never included free unlimited hosting of the server in some data center...that overhead was always extra in whatever form we chose to handle it.

 

If you can re-write the entire code base then why buy an asset just to redo the whole thing? That's just nonsense.

I question you own or even used bolt or looked at the source code. The entire code was rewritten to force CCU payment to photon.. Do your research before you try and talk about something.

Even if you go through steamworks you still have to pay photon CCU. Hosting a server is not the gripe. It's even if you host it yourself, do everything yourself, you HAVE TO PAY PER CCU. That's how the asset works.

The fact that you talk like its a problem with server hosting tells me you don't know what your talking about.

I have said all needs to be said about this asset and the direction of exitgames with bold and will not reply to further derp posts or anything else related to this asset.

It is what it is...no matter how much you polish a turd it's still a turd.

 

Give it a rest, if something is getting on your goat just move on.

 

Sorry you feel that way, I personally love Bolt, and been using it since before Photon had it... I have no issues. I suggest to let Photon know at the forums, or support. and give them feed back, and/or let them know of any concerns. Best of luck on what ever route you take. Keep up the great work, Bolt, I been happy customer for years now.


PS: Looking forward to anything new that comes from Bolt.

 

The Slack server is really active, if you want to get insight on what may be coming!

 

it sure is always support and people helping one another as well.

 

Bolt 1.1.0.3 is released
Added: New PunchThrough code using the Photon Servers as relay. This removes the need of Zeus.
Removed: Zeus support and settings.

 

Bolt 1.1.0.4 is released

Changed: Implemented IEquatable<> for structs to avoid boxing costs and memory allocations, specifically when in Dictionaries
Fixed: Per tick memory allocation in FreezeProxies with a cached List <>
Changed: IBoltListNode to IBoltListNode, removed the implementation from BoltObject, implemented it on everything that needed it and removed casts in the lists that are no longer needed
Added: Options for querying IEntityBehaviour, IReplicationFilter, and IPriorityFilter as global options as well as allowing per-prefab overrides
Changed: Reversed the QueryComponentOptions to have global options that can be overridden by prefabs on a per-prefab basis. This is cleaner.

If you're currently using Photon Bolt please leave us a review on the asset store, we would love to have your feedback.

 

Photon Bolt 1.1.0.6 is released:

Fixed: Debug start for Unity 2018
Fixed: Exception when LoadBalancingClient is destroyed while joining and Bolt is shutdown.
Fixed: Inactive GameObject with Animators attached were showing warnings messages about calling of animator functions.
Fixed: BoltStartFailed callback doesn't working.
Fixed: Some Property types do not display correct arrow for expanded/collapsed properties. Fixed: SetServerInfo() throws a NullReferenceException when called inside BoltStartDone() callback.
Fixed: SetHostInfo being called but BoltNetwork.SessionList stays at 0.
Fixed: Error on macOS when using Experimental Scripting Runtime Version (.Net 4.6 Equivalent) and NAT punchthrough enabled.
Fixed: Building for macOS targets are invalid while attempting to test server/clients using DebugStart.

Added: Exposed the current progress of async scene loading in currentAsyncOperation
Added: Lobby Manager example to be used with Photon platform. It's possible to create, list and join rooms.
Added: Missing Regions for Photon Cloud.
Added: Scroll panel for Bolt Welcome Window. This is useful when dealing with small screens.

Changed: Updated API naming related to the use of "Host" and "Server" names. All references that uses "Host" were replaced with a "Server" version.

Removed: RegisterShutdownDoneCallback (dead code that never did anything)

Leave us a review on the asset store: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/83233

 

Photon Bolt 1.1.0.7 is released:
Fixed: Latency Simulation
Fixed: BoltNetwork.currentAsyncOperation could throw errors sometimes
Fixed: Level1 scene missing material

Added: Exposed connection stats from Bolt Connection by type (States, Events and Commands).

 

WebGL Support for Photon Bolt -- Sign the Petition!

 

Photon Bolt 1.1.0.8 is released:
Fixed: Fixed issue with registering a bolt shutdown callback after BoltStartFailed occured.
Fixed: NullReferenceException that would happen when sending an event to a specific connection if that connection was disconnected.
Fixed: Bolt will now check for duplicate asset name during compilation and log an error if duplicates were detected.
Fixed: Steam Lobby sample.
Added: Exposed BoltConnection.DisconnectReason so user code can inspect the reason a connection was disconnected.
Changed: If an exception is thrown by internal code during event dispatch it's now logged which event caused the exception to make it easier to track down.
Changed: Exception for missing to register a protocol token and then trying to use it now also shows when Bolt runs in release mode.

 

I recently got kicked out from Photon Bold discord while talking about Bolt's CCU limits when using Steamworks and explaining the issues around the vague licensing terms. I do get I can be edgy sometimes but nothing I did there was ban worthy from place that is supposed to be run by professionals. Basically dev's reply was along the lines "you are better off developing your own networking solution, we don't want you here". So instead of actually addressing the issues (mixed info on what you can do with Photon Bolt), they just try to silence people who have concerns.

I also do recommend people to reconsider purchasing any Photon products as they might cut your support if you happen to disagree with them. It's not a healthy sign that they can't deal with basic communication like this gracefully.

I did sense their frustration immediately upon joining their support server as I asked them something that apparently gets brought up really often (which I, as a new user couldn't have known). This ended up me getting warning that they don't want that talk there (but there isn't any better place to talk about it than their own discord server). So, I shut up like their dev demanded me to do as I didn't want trouble, but week later new user came asking again the very same thing that I asked originally and dev's response was different. I then pointed out again the vagueness of the situation and explained where the Bolt's current terms are in legal text to the new user and that was too much for them: I got booted.

So instead of doing something about their vague terms, they just keep their stance on trying to silence people and not fixing the actual issue.

 

To get the cat out of the box, this is what Exit Games doesn't want you to know:

Exit Games and it's developers keep sending mixed signals on what is included on Bolt and what is not. Basically they keep saying on all kinds of places (blog, forums, discord) that while using Bolt with self hosted setup or Steamworks, it is still subject to Photon's CCU limits, yet some older discussions tell that's only their future plan and such monetization model isn't yet effective for cases likes Steam. If you use Steam, you don't use Photon servers for anything but they'd want to monetize this still so that you'd pay per CCU, this isn't mentioned on any terms though. What is even worse, there's a forum post that says they wants to talk with you if you make a lot of money which hints they want a bigger cut if you succeed.

For example, this article was posted after Photon Bolt kept getting negative asset store reviews with title "shameless money grab": https://blog.photonengine.com/photon-bolt-fair-pricing-or-shameless-money-grab/ from which I'll quote the part on steamworks:

similar topic got discussed also here: https://forum.photonengine.com/discussion/10416/bolt-on-my-own-server from which I'll quote:

How this currently stands is that when you buy an asset from Unity Asset Store, you have to go by their terms and if you have additional terms on top of that, it has to be mentioned. In case of Photon Bolt, they don't add extra terms so you should be able to use Photon Bolt today with Steamworks without paying extra for CCU - unlike they try to make you believe (they don't even have a system in place to track this). Of course if you actually use Photon Cloud, you are need to register for their service and pay for it accordingly but that's expected and fair.

I've said this many times on the Bolt discord as well: I don't have issues with Photon's CCU pricing, I find it really fair if you use their services. My only real issue is on the vague licensing terms and that they keep suggesting they might want more money than what was originally agreed on.

So the real issue is that whoever from Exit Games keeps posting the info online isn't aware of the real legalize around the matter. I find it really shame that such nice networking solution like Bolt is getting so much bad PR because they can't deal with relatively simple issue to solve (just put the full terms out in the open, don't get annoyed when people ask after the terms).

PS. I do find irony on them telling to take a deep breath on delicate and explosive topic when their devs themselves are running with the explosives on their own discord server

PSS. I'm not a troublemaker, I address real issues and don't have time for trolling. I even tried to be helpful and linked them my findings on how to use 2018.3 multi-scene physics as their devs didn't know how to do this yet. I also posted detailed bug report in hopes of getting Bolt a better product. I really wish all the best for the Photon Bolt itself, but also wish they'd do some arrangements on how they treat their customers.

 

Confused by this statement, I don't want to stir anything up...But I use Steam, and don't pay CCU.. Also if you had your own DS...you wouldn't..So where are you getting this information?


I don't feel Bolt is hiding anything...If I where you I would of sent a ticket in, so you understood what was going on. research more and so on.. but some subjects can start unneeded drama on Discord. Just saying. I see this on many channels not just Bolt.


Also you do understand, CCU/networking won't matter much, its about 1 % of your total total sales give or take a % or so. You are going to PAY regardless with MOST companies that are ANY GOOD.. So not sure why people expect this for free.. when it cost money to run , maintain servers....and its NOT cheap... Welcome to game development, and the multi player world...

Last I have talk to the devs for years, actually they are very passive in there personalities. well the couple I talk to over the years.

Also you do realize, 2018.3 just came out and its in BETA, most assets and people who actually make games, would never touch a beta...Unity makes to make changes and they are buggy...So who cares about that version....I find that hard to believe they didn't know, when two of them are very good...at what they do.

 

I did link the sources on the post. Telling these things is sure way to cause confusion, they do share that info but don't want to address the concerns that get raised by people who read these things. (or well, they did address me out of their server I guess )

 

so you sent a ticket in?? sounds like you did on Discord. again, stuff like this just adds to the confusion and starts more drama, so take my advice. or don't. but that is what I would of done and have in the past. If a mod ask you to stop doing something, you do it..It is there sever. its that simple. anyways, I wish you all the best. .

 

Hey @rizu. I just heard about this ... situation and would like to chime in.

First off: You're just banned temporarily. We're still talking. We will continue to support you.
The thing is, while you're maybe right about confusing pricing info about Bolt, the Discord channel is not the place to discuss this. We would like to keep this on technical help, which hopefully is in everyone's interest (too). Also, the tech guys don't know the pricing, aside from what's on the page. Better mail us about this: developer@exitgames.com.

You may disagree with us but we might still do things some other way (for whatever reason). It's probably impossible to find a solution that nobody disagrees with (and that's maintainable).

About the terms in the packages: I am working with the Asset Store packages and I don't know if there's a way to upload specific terms at all. This is why the terms are on our page and or in the packages. Not great but .. afaik, currently there's no way to change this. There's a new interface and maybe I missed it. If someone points me to it, we're happy to upload terms. Why not, they are not secret.

About the pricing: We are working on this and want to clarify it. I don't know all the details, so don't ask me
I do know we're working on a new page but it's not ready, so please bear with us. We got very few non-developers in the company, so these things get done slowly. Sorry.
If you have a specific case in mind, mail us and we try to reply quickly: developer@exitgames.com.

 

@tobiass thank you for the reply. Like I said, I do want the best for Bolt and I'm currently evaluating if I can use it for my project. But how things turned out on the support discord made me seriously reconsider this.

I wasn't even going all over the place (you can read the messages). Like mentioned, I can be edgy at times but I'm fair with my points. I don't raise up issues just to cause drama, I rather want things to be solved and to be clear for all. Also like mentioned on my previous post, the same issue I originally encountered seems to be an recurring issue among your userbase (which is probably why people got immediately upset when I brought up the question about the terms as they sounded like "not this thing again").

This is really odd from where I come from: if people get immediately upset and can't give direct answer when someone asks a simple question about licensing terms (after reading really mixed info online about it), it's a HUGE warning sign that there's something fishy going on. If there's nothing to hide, there's nothing to get upset for. Instead I got completely opposite response and I was basically told to shut up (which I did until next user came along asking the same thing and going into that discussion lead me in getting banned).

It's in my nature to suggest solutions if I see something being wrong and I do find it odd that you don't want to discuss it on your server as it's the most logical place: if I were asset provider, I'd rather deal things like these in more closed environment like that discord rather than out in the open using public forums.

As for third party asset terms, there's a less known term in asset store license for "restricted assets" that let you dictate your own terms, it has to be displayed on the store page to be effective though: https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/8b8adv/unity_assets_restricted_assets/ (also see 2.2.2 at END-USER's Rights and Obligations from https://unity3d.com/legal/as_terms). I do suggest you to contact Unity support directly to figure out the proper way to setup this so it complies with their license. Also having your license on your own web page somewhere is almost worst possible place to have the license in this case, especially if you don't link it to the store page: IMO it has to be at least mentioned on both the store page and in the asset package itself to make it clear for the users that those terms apply when you use it, otherwise the assumption is that it's bound by regular asset store terms.

 

Sir, I would contact Unity, but you are talking about apples and oranges when it comes to the actually asset...and anything else, you buy, from PHOTON directly...You get free CCU, I forgot the number, 20? so forgive me, not sure...But if you need more, that has really nothing to do with Unity per say. I see people screaming about upgrade cost of assets all the time and other cost..... Well, game dev is NOT cheap, today its lunch money for most things but they all need to run a business, once you make a game...you would understand this..sir. So I read some of your posts and I found, the developers to be professional on every encounter...if you read any of my passed posts, you will see, I will call out unfairness.... as I been here for nearly 9 years or so. But understand its a business. and there are cost to running/making games....and that is no different for any.. I think Photon is more than fair , and yes some stuff can be dicey..but there will ALWAYS be someone unhappy about what that page says....Because you keep saying, you recommended, this and that...Well, sir its there product, it don't mean they will add, everything YOU personally want....If they did that BOLT would be a pile of junk...

You may recommend, but you should of did so when the dev asked the first time... and email support, questions..I see you went on and on.. So Just be fair here. I have no fight in this. at all... and anyone who knows me, knows if its unfair I will call that company/person out. Its a business.... Please run a company and make a game, you will see what I mean... no disrespect or anything.. Just saying anyways. I wish you well, but if your going to leave Bolt that is your choice...but you can't leave something, because your upset its not very smart...

...Do what is best for your game, company or what ever it is your making..... I still work with some people I disagree with as that tool/software is great...I won't name names.,.If you like Bolt chalk it up and move on..as a lesson learned. That is what life is about.. in part.

anyways I WISH you the best.. and hope you reconsider, but if you don't. well good luck.

 

Well, we did suggest to mail us, so we can direct the questions to the relevant colleagues. Mail to: developer@photonengine.com

Edit: If this helps with anything, yes, the terms are currently not clear enough. We know and are not happy with that, so we work on it.

 

you can add a licence.txt in the asset folder and the asset store will automatically display a popup before an user can buy it

 

@Tiny-Tree: In the AssetStore folder? Or in the root Assets folder? I assume the Assets. Will have a look. Thanks!

 

i have seen few developers do this, maybe by accident but the simple fact to have a license.txt would load it content and you had to click accept before purchasing. it was placed into their asset folder not root. i'm not sure it still works with new asset store now, i guess you can test this by using a "draft" and open it as preview

 

Me sending email wouldn't have prevented the ban as you simply can't just keep telling people to shut up and to send email every time someone asks about the terms. That is, unless the terms truly are a business secret - which it can't be for an asset that is being sold on asset store (you'd be removed from the store for violating the asset store terms in that case).

To me this whole situation is totally absurd. If you have a support group, asking and discussing the terms there is the most logical place for it, it shouldn't be a forbidden thing that triggers your staff immediately. If this small things are making you guys ban people from your support group, people should be aware of it.

Anyway, I'll not keep going on about this anymore, you know my stance on this already. I hope next time we communicate it can be on more positive things

 

Photon Bolt 1.2.0.1 is released:
Fixed: .NET 4.x issue when dealing with Bolt Assets
Fixed: Issues with IL2CPP using .NET 4.0.
Fixed: LanBroadcast using PhotonPlatform.
Fixed: General refactoring on Photon services to improve reliability and performance.
Fixed: Maintain connection with Photon cloud even when the game is paused.
Fixed: Support mobile platforms: Android and iOS.
Fixed: MaxConnection when using PhotonPlatform to use the general Bolt Settings.

Update: Incorporation of all Photon related code to internal DLLs.
Update: Exposed session type when listing all available sessions from Bolt.

Added: New Wizard window with basic steps to get Bolt running.
Added: Bolt setting for enabling Client Metrics.

 

Fixed: Support mobile platforms: Android and iOS.

Nice

 

After noticing the "Photon Bolt" asset I bought is suddenly "deprecated" without any mention of a product replacing it, it seems like a new version got released? What exactly is going on? Is it deprecated or is it still being updated?

It says I can download the latest version "1.1.0.9", but this thread mentions "1.2.0.1" is out ...

 

@snakesvx They replaced it with https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/photon-bolt-free-127156

It's basically same package as before but with a new setup, now requiring signing to their service before you can install it. They also removed steamworks packages from the new version.

 

@snakesvx: There is a new, free package and everyone can upgrade.
You previously had to buy the other package and got a 100 CCU "subscription" with it (one time fee, so not really a subscription but also, technically "only" 60 months valid). This benefit is not affected at all! The 100 CCU can be used with the new package, as it gets attached to a Photon App. This is for matchmaking and punch through and if needed relay. All fully automated.
Steamworks or the Steam API can be used but we don't need their network api anymore (we now have as good punch through), so you may do matchmaking there and turn it into a Bolt room to actually play in.

 

@rizu , @tobiass thank you both for the information. This clears everything up

 

@tobiass

I bought the original bolt (before exit games), got voucher for exit games version.
*this seems before the cloud integration.
*redeemed voucher around Sep 2015....

am I eligible to get the 100 CCU coupon for bolt?