Lost my programmer 1/4 through development. What to do?

Hey everybody

I’m looking for a little input from anyone who has ever had to CONSIDER modifying the design/scope of a game to overcome losing a developer, and anyone else who has an opinion on the subject.

I wrote a wall of text but a short – half wall – summary will be easier to digest and respond to.

I recently had to split ways with my programmer. The game I’m working on is approximately a 1 year development cycle at its current scope.

Special Note: Anyone who doesn’t already know, I’m not a programmer – I’m a Playmaker using artist. Oh and I’m not full-time indie either. I can put in approximately 20-25 development hours per week.

We WERE roughly 4 months in with a solid build of the core mechanics. We presented at a game festival and received positive feedback. We also created web builds and posted in Feedback Friday. The feedback from all avenues confirmed we WERE on the right track to move forward with the next phase of development. Next phase being a vertical slice to setup all the systems of the game and create a 85% polished slice that would be representative of the entire game. Time frame for this vertical slice was to release again in September.

Now – that’s not happening in the time frame I had planned.


I’m confident I can recreate the core game in Playmaker in about 3-4 weeks.
With the need to recreate the core, I don’t see me getting to a releasable vertical slice until sometime in November.

I’m confident in my drive and ability, and with a little help from all ya’ll - I know I can create the entire game on my own, however if I keep the current scope I’m pretty sure development will take me 1 year from right now.

One option (I hate even considering this) is to de-scope the current design. I could deliver a bare bones in about 4 months – if I drastically reduced scope, but I think by doing that I would be publishing not even half a game. Equal to The Legend of Zelda stopping at the 3rd dungeon, or Warcraft only allowing the player to play as the humans. I have other examples if you need more. Basically part of the appeal to the game for the player IS earning the additional content planned.
Like Super Mario ending after 2-4.
I would not be removing the core mechanics, but the game would be less than half of what I believe would make the game marketable, it would make it less appealing to gamers.

The second option is similar to the first but more positive. De-scope the existing game design down to its core, polish, add a very small amount of extra content, polish and ship. This will give me a strong base to prepare and build on top of for the original design – which will help reduce development time for the next game.

Third option is to put the game on hold and work on a game that is smaller.
I have about 4 other games prototyped, and ready to go. Two of those games are shorter development cycles which would result in quicker products to market, and probably a better solo development experience.

And finally theres the option to look for someone to partner with, but I’m not sure if I can adjust to working with another person at this time. If the right person came along I might consider it, but at this point I’m kinda feeling a little discouraged and really just want to get back at it on my own.

I think I just answered my own question.
It looks like options 2 or 3 are the smartest choices to consider, but any additional input is welcome.

I respect this community and enjoy reading others opinions that cause me to expand my view – on nearly every topic discussed around here, so I had to come and see what others had to say.

 

Now I want to see how the game looks like lol.

 

Find another programmer.

If the game took 4 months and the guy was any good, then you can't recreate it in 3..4 weeks in playmaker.

If the guy was paid, then you still own the source code you got from him.

If you decide to program on your own, the good idea would be to ditch playmaker and try to work through C# on your own, learning as you go. It'll pay off and I think in the end it'll be faster than using playmaker.

 

Agree with neginfinity, either become the programmer or find a new one. If you can pay them it shouldn't be too hard, but a profit-share will be more difficult.

Additionally, if you want to go at it on your own, you could pay someone to teach you the current codebase or at least document it precisely for you, might really help speed along your learning.

 

Wait... are you talking about Fantasy Tic-tac-toe? Just so we're on the right page because I was confused about your comparison to legend of zelda.

Also, I voted cautiously look for another programmer, although if 'learn to code yourself' was there I would have choose that option. Coding in c# with unity is ridiculously easy compared to other engines.

 

What happened to the existing code base? Did your programmer abscond with it? Did you have a deal where the current work could only be used if both of you were working on it?

 

Just hire a new programmer 1/4 through a project isn't a terrible time to change staff. You own the previous code I would assume.

 

Yeah I think we need more details on who owns what, but trying to recreate it in play maker isn't really viable

 

Need a better sense for the scope of the game. Tend to think the right answer is to try to find another programmer to work with. It really depends on the skill level of the programmer, but if a skilled guy put in 4 months of work, there's no way to salvage things other than getting another programmer.

There is a huge range in quality though from programmer to programmer, if he was half assing it or was totally new to game specific dev, then there might be a ton of wasted time there.

If you think you could redo a lot of it in playmaker in a month, then something is wrong with the codebase or you're underestimating the problem - hard to tell.

 

I think we need the OP to confirm if it is indeed fantasy tic-tac-toe. If it is then to complete the other half should be considerably easy, if it is sort of a zelda clone he would most certainly need a programmer or get real good at programming himself to make the deadline IMO.

 

Hey man sorry to hear that. Geesh I know how thrilled you were to finally have a programmer to team up with. I am sure it was a major disappointment. Glad to see you looking for ways to move forward!

I agree with the others it is very hard to say what the scope would be to convert 4 months of his work to Playmaker. Some people take 4 months to accomplish what others can do in a week. And definitely if the guy had no previous experience in game dev and especially with Unity (which is a unique beast in itself) at least a month or two of that time would have been heavy on the learning curve.

So I am thinking you know Playmaker way better than I do and you know what has been done so far... so if you think you can recreate it in 4 weeks... that will probably be 8 weeks but still point is it might be the way to go. Maybe spend a few days or 1 week as a test. Tackle whatever seems to be the hardest part and see how much you get done. Always tackle the hardest parts first (well any prerequisites too of course). Then after just 1 week of researching through Playmaker development you should know if you can do it in 4 weeks, 8 weeks or maybe 2 weeks.

 

lol.

You're still at the start. 4 Months *full time* is not a concern. Find a new programmer, finish it yourself, whatever you choose, choose the path that makes you happy.

Decent games take years at small team sizes. If years isn't in your planning, reduce the scope until the time is to your taste.

 

Man dude, sorry to hear about that! =/

That's not really terribly vested. You still have source, content, and a plan. You just need either a programmer or to finish it with your own skillset in some way.

Without specifics, this is hard to evaluate. Why do you need to descope? What is currently finished? What is pending? What is required? Are enough parts there to make an MVP?

This means you'll have 5 other games prototyped, and ready to go.

If it's paid, you shouldn't have much trouble finding someone reliable. If unpaid - without someone good expressing genuine mutual interest in the project - there's no way to rely on them.

 

@theANMATOR2b - Sorry you lost your programmer. Are you talking about fantasy tic-tac-toe? If so, was a lot of the 4 months spent on prototyping to refine your core gameplay loop? If so, I think it's plausible for you to re-implement it in PlayMaker, although 8-12 weeks is a safer estimate. This will give you control of the source so you can make changes yourself. Since fantasy tic-tac-toe is turn-based, performance of PlayMaker vs. C# isn't an issue. I think it's scoped well as it is. If you can replicate the current functionality in PlayMaker, you could release it as-is, with maybe a high score board and of course production art assets.

 

I posted in Feedback Friday - it's still mvp with all placeholder art.
Here is a direct link.

Thanks for the all the input guys. I should have clarified regarding current scope and time input.
(4 months) doesn't accurately represent the current state of the game. We both are not full-time indie.
I'd say there is approximately 30-45 programmer hours put in so far. This minimal productive output was the main reason I choose to part ways. To be considerate we also spent time prototyping and refining the core loop before locking the mechanics down to the existing build.

Our agreement was revenue split. I have the existing code base, I have retained all content/rights. This isn't a contentious issue.

I think I've gone into detail about this before - but the short version is programming isn't an option. I use Playmaker - although I value your opinions, that is not an option for me. There is a wall in my brain. I've already started to convert/translate the code base. I can generally comprehend/read code I just can't write it.
Learn to code yourself isn't an option in the pole - because it's not an option for me. I've spent time/money/and honest effort several time in the past and - it just doesn't stick. I guess I'm just - different or full up or crippled or something.

Hmm - I'd argue this point pretty strongly because of my personal bias , knowledge and ability, but I'm interested in your opinion. What makes you think a relatively small indie title is not recreate-able in Playmaker?
I should have provided a link in the original post. After seeing the current build and planned scope do you still think this?

@iamthwee The reference to Zelda was only to provide a simple example comparison to reducing scope of my game. If I were to reduce scope down from what is already planned - it would be like Zelda shipping with only 3 dungeons, or Super Mario ending after level 2-4. Those are incomplete games. To compare the designed scope to an existing game - reference the original Puzzle Quest.

You are right! This is the current plan of action.

Ah good. Well 4 months part-time is even less. I'm just starting. I guess I'm just a little gun shy after reading so many accounts of scoping too big to begin with or scope creep, and Gigi challenge attempts.
I'm doing this this regardless - if it takes 4 months or 1 year or even longer. Thanks!

Good point! That is true.
See Here for current state plus some finished art that is not in that build.

 

My bad, I evidently make myself clear enough my comment about its lack of viability was with regards to redo in the 4 month code base with playmaker in 4 weeks, which I still stand by. Doing the game yourself in playmaker without expecting to meet the deadlines you set yourself is possible, but I would press with caution. Whilst it's doable, it has its down sides
A) you will lose a significant amount of the work done and have to redo that
B) if you decide later down the line that you DO want to programmer to help out, I think you'll have a very hard time since most programmers won't want to use visual scripting, so would pretty much need to rewrite the code base

So that begs the questions: how much is the 4 months of code actually worth and how confident are you in your programming skills (with visual scripting)? My recommendation for you next highly depends on this, and I really want to see you go far so I mean well by this

 

Thanks Tony. I appreciate your input and estimate.
Fantasy Tac#Tics Toe !! LOL

I should have never said 4 months. Thanks for clarifying, you bring up several good points to think about.

 

No problem if you were a programmer working on the game the same amount you would with visual scripting, how long do you estimate it actually is? Since I'm getting the impression it's less than 4 months to you

 

I don't know what happened that you are so difficult to work with. Wasn't always that way. Our business "team" up 18 months ago worked out well I thought. Although that game died that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Maybe loosen up a bit. Relax. A beer or two after work before communicating may help in future.

 

...So your only option is to find another programmer then.

I personally feel you're going to struggle with playmaker, especially if the end goal is to develop some AI where you the player can play against the computer.

No visual scripting tool is going to help you there.

 

Well, in this case you have pretty much nothing. A new guy would be able to catch up with that quickly.

One thing:

Destroy the wall. It'll be worth it.

I'll elaborate though: the reason why I'd recommend to program is C# is because I expect visual programming based approach to slow you down and eventually collapse under its own complexity. Those tools have their uses, but writing entire logic on the game in them is the situation where using visual tools becomes very risky. So with that in mind, I'd recommend to concentrate on breaking your mental wall.

 

Not really since there's lots of strategies to deal with it. And with every passing month, more work gets done for you. In the end, barely any code is needed, let alone blueprints. You just focus on behaviour.

Lots of posts containing your anti-visual scripting spiel. Give it a rest. There are people out there right now, using visual scripting who thanks to visual scripting, have made more money than you'll ever see in your lifetime.

That justifies why it isn't going away. Personally, I don't use it. Do I advocate it? hell yes, for people who shouldn't be programmers. And that's actually most people in the world.

 

Ya know although I definitely get what you are saying and the reason for it don't disagree at all with the benefits of doing so... I think I can understand where he is coming from. I think there may be people as disconnected from writing code as there are people disconnected from not writing the code.

I mean I struggle working in a visual environment unless it is small and very focused. If it is art related work like a paint program, 3d modeling program fine. Get in get that work done get out. Other visual tools such as level editors same thing. Beyond that just give me an IDE or notepad and let me program. I tried many times to get into these big game engines and just cannot connect with them at some core level.

And it seems likely the opposite would be true for certain other people who are very visually oriented. They probably prefer pictures even diagrams over text when it comes to software development.

So he may not be exaggerating that... well for him sure he probably *could* do it but he may well hate it. And that may be what creates the mental wall. Again like for me. It is because every fiber of your being says this is weird. This is not natural.

 

@hippocoder, how would the OP write an AI to play against a human player via visual scripting?

Bearing in mind the rules are a bit different from noughts and crosses.

 

Why are you under the impression that Visual Scripting tools cannot create AI?

 

Behavour trees are a common thing used in AAA games to keep AI complexity close to nothing because complicated things these days have well-established solutions. So visual scripting in this case would be pretty small, and probably have a few separate ones to deal with different things.

 

I'm not under the impression that visual scripting tools cannot create AI actually, I'm just saying how many noodles would it take to do that. Take for example 'connect 4' would you want to build an AI for that with visual scripting?

 

At it's simplest, one node I guess. To tell the agent to move to the player

Visual scripting does *not* exist in a vacuum.

 

BTW I'm looking at his game and thinking this looks close-ish to connect 4 , although to be fair I hadn't assessed if there was a way to always find perfect play as it is somewhat unique.

@hippocoder yeah maybe in a fps a behaviour tree would suffice, here I'm not so sure.

 

It's essentially evaluating the game state (9 squares, neighbors, contents) and making a single decision. A loop, a few nodes and a handful of parameters is probably enough to create a decent decision. It's not like he has to create a Tal or Alekhine emulator here.

 

I don't like lying to people.

The idea is to inform person about potential incoming problem. If I know about a problem, I'll tell about it. The visual scripting offers less bug-prevention safety than Python and has the issues I described. If, after receiving the additional info people will still go with visual scripting approach, well, they made their informed decision and accepted the risks and consequences that came with their choice. Past that point there's nothing for me to do and nothing to say. Even if I were right and their project collapse because of overreliance on visual programming tools, well, the other party already agreed that they're fine with something like that possibly happening - when they made their decision.

Meaning that if OP still decides to go with visual scripting, it's his choice, and I'll have nothing to say.

And that sounds reasonable enough for me.

 

Maybe, I got thinking when the tiles get destroyed with a diagonal attack which made me think it was slightly more than a 9 square decision option.

 

Regarding AI, possibly the vast majority of AI (when you include indie titles) is still implemented with FSMs, which is what PlayMaker does.

Well there's a bit of feedback. "Fantasy Tac#Tics Toe" sounds clever when I read it in the Feedback Friday thread, but in my memory it's always Fantasy Tic-Tac-Toe.

 

Although I will agree that @neginfinity has a strong opinion on visual scripting, and on the surface, may seem like he's some kind of anti visual scripting bandwagoner, I have to say, at least in this case, I agree with his decision to say what he did. At least to me, it was clear that he was warning OP of what he thinks the issue with visual scripting was. Maybe he could have worded it better, to make it clearer that its his opinion on the matter and not that hes propagating myth that its objectively fact that you cant get anything done with visual scripting, but I still feel like he was (trying) to act in the best interest of the OP because he didnt believe visual scripting was a good idea, and thus let him know why

 

I guess we'll find out if the OP decides to code an AI with playmaker, personally this screams out neural nets with more weights given to winning positions. Additionally, with this method you could also offer varying degrees of difficultly with AI, more importantly there's no effort required by the coder to get the AI right, the net does the lot. Then again, I hadn't thought about it that much.

 

Possible. I just pointed out potnetial problem, pretty much.

Also, uh, guys/girls? Let's not start another visual scripting argument? Several last ones went to hell. I pointed out the problem, have nothing to add, the rest is OP's decision. Sounds reasonable for me.

 

I definitely agree. If you want to add something specific to OPs situation like neginfinity did, then do so. But likewise, dont try to convince anyone which is better or which isnt.

 

My rough estimate is about 4 weeks at roughly 20 hours per week. But I think I might be under estimating a little. Might be because I'm motivated to get directly back to where the game currently is.

I expect to struggle - it's all part of the experience. I don't mind struggling.
Playmaker along with Behavior Designer - if needed, although for FTtT I'm confident Playmaker will suffice.
Anyone skeptical just visit the the Playmaker thread. Countless examples of good games developed exclusively using Playmaker.

Me!

I think I'm gonna evaluate for about a week -
Thanks everybody - believe it - you've all given me some clarity and thoughts in areas I had not considered.

 

I don't doubt that you CAN'T make a game with Playmaker, quite the contrary. The only reason I urge caution is if you decide to go forth with playmaker, then realise you're not up to the task (not saying you arent, just programming isnt your expertise so it could be the case), then I reckon youll have a lot harder time getting a programmer on board to help you out. Let us know what you go with

 

Also as a rule of thumb, if you ever need to estimate how long programming something will take, add at least 50% onto what you anticipate

 

Currently my adjusted amount is 200%...

 

I'm definitely going to keep a close eye on this to see how far the OP gets with the AI using playmaker.

 

50% is min

 

I guess the answer is to simply a pay a programmer to finish it. I have actually made a few games with profit split but its a very slow process, and theres only 1 guy I can reliably work with. Money is the great motivator, then you can keep all the profits

 

Choosing a visual scripting language doesn't exclude you from choosing other solutions for different problems. One of the advantages of PlayMaker is that it has been around for a long enough period of time that many third party assets integrate with it. Behaviour Designer, for example, is one way to implement AI without ending up with an unruly pile of spaghetti.

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/15277 - Behaviour Designer

 

Playmaker is a great way to learn how to code. I simply opened the action I wanted to use and studied how they did it. Wasn't too long before I could just write the code myself.

 

Then it goes to the project lead, who increases it by another 300%.

 

Do not trash the already done work, find a new programmer.

 

@OP:

I checked your project. It has very small scope. After three months of full-time coding studies you will be able to write it yourself. You don't need any hardcore skills to do that.

 

That's interesting Drew - I never even considered that, maybe just the thing to break the wall down. Thanks for sharing.