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I've got a Switch. I've got Unity. Now what?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kromah, Jun 26, 2017.

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  1. Kromah

    Kromah

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    Hello fellow developers,

    you must have all have heard the news: Unity 5.6 includes support for Nintendo Switch export, excellent!. The info has been going around quite a lot. Yet, the steps to go through if you actually want to make some test applications seem extremely unclear and I am hoping this thread will gather some info about this.

    First of, why does the Nintendo Developer Portal doesn't make any mention of a potential Switch dev kit? Only 3DS and Wii U are available. Can it be to early for this?

    Can I get started directly with Unity, without caring about any Nintendo library, then hope to be able to export it as a Nintendo format, readable by my console?

    Also important, can I run my application directly on my retail Switch? I have read around that a "cheap" dev kit would be available, but what keeps me from running my game directly on my console (like you would do on your iPhone, right?)

    I am sure any info would be of great use to anyone (like me) for whom this is a bit unclear. Also if you have other questions feel free to post them :)
     
  2. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    You need to contact Nintendo directly.
     
  3. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    I would believe so. That's mostly how it works when you switch from PC to mobile at least.

    It re imports everything and you're ready to export to a different platform.
     
  4. FMark92

    FMark92

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    If you want to develop for switch you will need to sign up to Nintendo’s Developer Program.
     
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  5. Kromah

    Kromah

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    Yes that is what I mostly read. I did that, I am now technically registered as part of the Nintendo Developer program. But as I've said the Nintendo Developer program doesn't even make mention of a Switch dev kit / framework / anything.
     
  6. Kromah

    Kromah

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    I can give it a try if this can bring some info to this thread...
     
  7. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Yes and no. You can acquire access to the Switch developer kit, but you need to create an account with them (which you have already done) and then contact them directly to request access to the kit.

    You can start developing your game now the same as you would for any other platform. You just won't have access to anything that doesn't already come with Unity. You won't have access to any APIs that are specific to the Switch.

    No. Nintendo consoles require games to be signed or they won't load at all.
     
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  8. Kromah

    Kromah

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    Thank you Ryiah, feels really good to get some clarity about this. I'm really sad to learn I can't run my test app on my retail console. Is this why there are hardware dev kits?
     
  9. FMark92

    FMark92

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    Unrelated, but;

    Since nintendo knows this will eventually be bypassed anyway, why would they not instead take the homebrewers into their market? At least that way console would still be relevant 10-15 years from now.
     
  10. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Why would they waste their time with someone who wasn't willing to spend five minutes signing up?

    If a console is relevant when a new one is released then it only serves as competition. Nintendo doesn't approach console hardware in the same manner as Microsoft or Sony. Hardware from them is sold at a loss but Nintendo at the very least is breaking even with their hardware sales.

    http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...s_two_million_units_to_ship_in_time_for_march
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  11. FMark92

    FMark92

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    Is it really as easy as signing up and receving a key?
     
  12. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Yes, getting started is as easy as signing up, receiving a key, and purchasing the necessary hardware. You'll need to request access to the Switch if you want to develop for it, but the 3DS and Wii U are available as soon as you're signed up.
     
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  13. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Switch is still 'private' development right now. You have to contact Nintendo directly for access and they seem pretty picky about who they choose to approve/allow.
     
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  14. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    If you want to emulate the switch hardware, it's basically a stock new nvidia shield with fixed stable throttling of the gpu and no OS overhead (no android), so whatever run on this should work on a switch, so if you are in a hurry buy a nvidia shield and test on that, it should be roughly equivalent.
     
  15. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    For that matter both the Joy-Con and Pro controllers will pair with your computer. Or Android device for that matter.

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/06/n...d-pro-controllers-work-on-pc-mac-and-android/

    You will need a Bluetooth adapter though if your device doesn't already support it. Fortunately they're very cheap.

    https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Bluetooth-Adapter-Raspberry-Compatible/dp/B009ZIILLI/
     
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  16. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Exactly. Nintendo is only letting some developers have access to Switch devkits at this point. I am guessing Nintendo is mainly looking for existing successful titles to bring to the Switch.
     
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  17. neoshaman

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    Or they are in panic mode due to carefully managing the shortage and the competition on spare part with apple and co.
     
  18. JamesArndt

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    You'll need to register on the Nintendo Developer Portal...formerly WarioWorld. You have to apply to be a Nintendo developer...they will be looking for a history of shipping games commercially, and looking if you have a secure location for the developer kits. They require a room with a door that locks from the inside if you're using your home office or something. The good news is, early reports are saying the Switch dev kits are around $500 bucks, which is insanely cheap considering the historical cost. For reference a WiiU dev kit ran about $5,000 or so, it was never, ever cheap to develop on Nintendo dev kits. These are only the small, first hurdles...Nintendo has some of the worst approval and certification processes you will ever go through, so buckle up for that at the end of your development. By worst I mean they have very strict and specific requirements for all elements of your game. Good luck!

    PS - All of this info coming from a Nintendo Developer and a history of shipping games on Nintendo platforms (in studio).
     
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  19. FMark92

    FMark92

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    Nintendo artificially facilitating shortage to pique interest.
    Who would have thought.
     
  20. Player7

    Player7

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    I never knew this, given that my dev room door doesn't lock.. it looks like I've just saved money from ever getting a nintendo switch to try put a game on thanks man :D

    "I've got a Switch. I've got Unity. Now what?"

    Put it back in the box to sell on ebay or something?
     
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  21. Ryiah

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    Which of the license agreements mentions it? I could have sworn I saw it mentioned at one time but now I can't seem to find the agreement again. The FAQ only mentions that a home office is allowed.

    https://developer.nintendo.com/faq
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  22. AcidArrow

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    Yeah, AFAIK that used to be a thing, but they stopped requiring that.
     
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  23. N1warhead

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    Yeah I remember it being that strict at one point too. But they've gotten pretty good about us Indies now.. LOL They turned me down for a Switch Dev kit, took over a month to hear anything back from them once I got in contact with the proper people. I had already given up by that point, because the guy I spoke to said it would take a week or two lol.

    Figured lack of replay meant - f-you lol.... But nope, they at least told me it was declined, I hate it when someone that you're expecting doesn't respond back. I think it's unprofessional, at least if you're speaking on professional terms at least. So A+ on them for at least remembering me.
     
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  24. JamesArndt

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    I don't think they publicly put that information out, but if you're in the US, Nintendo of America will call you and do a little phone "interview" about your home office setup, etc (at least they did with me). One of the sticking points is a locking room. This was like 2 years ago, so maybe the policy has changed but I doubt it. They put these kinds of stipulations in there to protect developer kits. When I was in studio they had even stricter requirements for development kits...such as having exterior cameras outside doors, and of course locking doors, and such.

    Below is the "old" information that I'm not sure still exists as a requirement.

    ""An Authorized Developer will have demonstrated to Nintendo's satisfaction the ability to develop and program excellent software for Nintendo video game systems or for other game platforms. In addition, an Authorized Developer will have demonstrated to Nintendo's satisfaction that it has (a) a stable business organization, (b) a secure, lockable area within its workspace to ensure the security of all Nintendo confidential information (including, without limitation, all development tools provided to Authorized Developer by Nintendo), and (c) an effective environment for working with Nintendo and/or its Publishers.""

     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  25. JamesArndt

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    Ha ha yeah it took them something like 5 or 6 months to get back to me with the final NDA and such.
     
  26. Ryiah

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    Ah. A phone call. That explains it. I just was wondering if they'd be happy with a safe.

    Which this wording seems to suggest a safe is acceptable. You'd just have to have a big enough one to hold it all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  27. N1warhead

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    Dang that's awhile hahaha... But at least they got back to ya.... One thing I can say though - Xbox - so much faster and easier to deal with.
     
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  28. ShilohGames

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    Are you talking about dealing with Microsoft using UWP on a consumer XBox or are you talking about dealing with Microsoft to get an actual Xbox devkit? If you need a devkit, then Microsoft can be just as painful to deal with as any other large corporation. The UWP route is relatively painless, but only practical if your game fits within the tech limits imposed by UWP.
     
  29. N1warhead

    N1warhead

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    I'm talking about the devkit stuff.... Obviously we can't discuss much on that.. But I was speaking in terms of speedy responses... Got everything signed (NDA), etc. All within days of signing up.
     
  30. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Getting a carpenter in is pretty cheap. Heck, I've installed locks myself with basic tools and a few bucks at Bunnings. It's the least of your worries in terms of cost to produce a game for Nintendo.
     
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  31. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    I've been reading this tread and thinking the same thing. If you can afford the dev kit in the first place a door lock should be such a non issue that its almost not noticed. As far as that goes in a home office your office door may not lock but your house doors surely do, likely to be an alarm system or some other security as well, wouldn't that be enough to prevent theft of a dev kit. Either way what's a lock set you back in the grand scheme of things. I do think it makes for a good example of just how picky Nintendo is and I could imagine a ton of other requirements that may be more difficult to fulfill.
     
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  32. Player7

    Player7

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    lol... when people take your sarcastic piss take posts seriously..

     
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  33. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Microsoft and Sony require it too.
     
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  34. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Yeah, the NDA signing step is quick, but that is just the first step. That is too early to actually see how easy or difficult a company is to work with. The better gauge would be how long it took to get approved for a devkit, how long it took to receive the approved devkit, and of course if they even approved the devkit. The NDA prevents all of us from discussing those details, but those are the really important details when judging how good a company is to work with.
     
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  35. JamesArndt

    JamesArndt

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    Xbox One home console with dev mode activated has been unbelievably easy to get a Unity build up and running. I am yet to go through the publishing process, but just doing development testing on the console has been a breeze.

    Some of the limitations are (pulled from their website):
    The maximum memory available to an app running in the foreground is 1 GB.
    The maximum memory available to an app running in the background is 128 MB.
    Apps that exceed these memory requirements will encounter memory allocation failures.
    Share of 2-4 CPU cores depending on the number of apps and games running on the system.
    Share of 45% of the GPU depending on the number of apps and games running on the system.
    UWP on Xbox One supports DirectX 11 Feature Level 10. DirectX 12 is not supported at this time.

    This line however really sends the constraints home:
    "For application development, it's important to keep in mind that the resources available may be limited in comparison to a standard PC."

    In all honesty it requires just about as much optimization as a mobile project would. Not saying you couldn't build a larger project on it, but man you'd have to really keep your eye on memory and employ every single trick you've ever learned!
     
  36. FMark92

    FMark92

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    Why though? The thing has 8GB and they don't even spare a quarter? I mean I guess I could test individual scenes if I was making a AAA experience, but for what purpose?
     
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  37. QFSW

    QFSW

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    This is for UWP apps on Xbox one, getting an actual dev kit and licence will give you the consoles full capabilities
     
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  38. JamesArndt

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    These are constraints for developing UWP apps on a retail purchased Xbox One. I feel like they crippled it a bit to incentivize developers to join the ID@Xbox program and get real development kits. My other thought is that maybe they set these constraints to get developers to make more casual style games, similar to mobile?
     
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  39. ShilohGames

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    The limits in UWP makes it completely useless for larger games.
     
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  40. ShilohGames

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    I agree that Microsoft intentionally crippled the developer mode on consumer boxes to try to add value to the ID@Xbox program. The problem for many people is larger games won't work at all in UWP (thanks to the limits) and Microsoft won't give out devkits to a lot of small indie developers. I honestly think Microsoft missed a massive opportunity here. Microsoft could have gotten a lot a developers to buy consumer Xbox One consoles to use as devkits if they had not crippled their own developer mode so terribly.
     
  41. Wavestar

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    How cute. Do they ask for photos of the room, too?

    Do they want me to install one of these:



    and then stick it inside one of these?

    Sure...... maybe after Nintendo donates about $5 Million for that.

    How about just have a locked room with armed security?

    Oh yeah, that'll draw all kinds of attention. More likely to draw attention of a desperate thief than I could have avoided by not drawing too much attention.

    The simple fact my location is located in some spot most likely to be missed by a thermonuclear strike by North Korea, I think I'll be okay.

    Sarcasm aside, I have a room with a dead bolt that uses a different key than that of the other room as well as a loft which can not be accessed to except through the room which you have to go through different keys to get to so when stored away, it can be in the loft because there is no other access to it except through climbing a wall and then entering through a window and then there is the steep roof pitches that if you're not careful will likely break your neck and skull or something more than just your ego.

    Come on Nintendo, this isn't something like having access to some top system to a computer that has the computing power of a Tianhe-2 and fit into the size of a mobile tablet that you won't even be authorized to know about because it's so advance that it is red-taped for the next 30+ years by National Security Agency.

    It's one thing if it was the electronics for the laser eye tracking optics for the AH-64 Apache back in the late 1970s and early 1980s when this was state of the art tech on boards worth more than 20 of these dev kits BACK then and that's just one of the circuit boards. If you want a camera, I'd do better, I would have cameras inside the room and outside the room and to the outside of the building and lock it down so it doesn't go anywhere without a lot of work. It wouldn't surprise me that Nintendo would even use some kind of odd ball security screws.

    I know all about their oddness even back with the Super Nintendo. (not talking about the SNES Classic mini but the SNES / Super Famicom).

    Surprising............................. not.
     
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  42. Wavestar

    Wavestar

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    Install a lock with dead bolt on door. Something you can get from Home Depot for very little. If you don't have some really special historic door, it really shouldn't be much of an issue.
     
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  43. SaltwaterAssembly

    SaltwaterAssembly

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    Agreed. Get ready to dot your "i's".
     
  44. JamesArndt

    JamesArndt

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    @Kromah Just curious how has your Nintendo development experience been going? Did you end up becoming a developer or get that development kit? I will just throw this out there. It's really easy to get your builds running on an Xbox One. Really all you need is the Xbox One and Unity...and then all of the requisite plugins, SDKs and such. I am not a super technical guy and it had my builds up and running to the Xbox in about 10 minutes, all setup. I even deploy the builds to the Xbox over wifi too, so no need for a direct cable connection or anything.
     
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  45. barnacle-balogh

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    Thanks for the posts on here everybody, it is a delightful helpful read!
     
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  46. BrandyStarbrite

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    I agree. This is a nice read.
    But like James, even I am curious to know, how it all went for you Kromah. :D
     
  47. Iamdain

    Iamdain

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  48. N1warhead

    N1warhead

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    Honestly don't remember. I think I just emailed regular support and they gave me a special email to email.
    Could be wrong though, honestly don't remember. But nevertheless, doesn't hurt to email regular support to find out who to contact about getting one.
     
  49. Jacob_Unity

    Jacob_Unity

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    Just to add - the requirement of being able to lock up dev kits is a normal thing from all of the big console companies. They'd very much like you to be able to keep the hardware safe, and the only thing that requirement is there for is to ensure that the dev kits and confidential info are behind a locked door and not in a shared workspace.
     
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  50. MarkrosoftGames

    MarkrosoftGames

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    It really shouldn't come as a surprise that Nintendo won't let just anyone write any code they want and deploy it to their hardware. If you could do that piracy and emulators would be running rampant.

    One thing about Nintendo is that they are sticklers for quality, and they dont want a bunch of cheap poorly made games out on their console making them look bad.

    I know they have been more open with indie devs since the wii u, but you still need to prove yourself first.

    and complaining about needing a locked door? come on, thats the least of your worries. and it makes sense. you are locked down to an NDA, but if someone could just walk in and grab it, they are not bound by that contract and could use it to leak proprietary info and possibly expose security holes if they know what they are doing.

    It's always been my dream to create games for Nintendo, but I know I still have a ways to go.
     
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