iPhone OS4 today

I'm kinda thinking along the same lines as CocoaPod.

I confess that I've been feeling quite a bit of
anxiety over the future of Unity iPhone. So I
empathize/sympathize with those who are feeling a lot
of stress or worry or uncertainty. I confess that
I've been checking this thread multiple times per day,
sometimes even multiple times per hour, for updates.
And finally, I confess that I personally would be in
that camp that would appreciate a daily update, even
if it were an automated reply of "nothing new today".
I guess that makes me a bit neurotic? Is that
the right word? I'm embarrassed to admit that I would
like daily updates ... although I'm not asking for it.


But I must admit that I have a lot of admiration for
those who are forging ahead despite the uncertainty.
I don't have that level of courage, although I wish I did.

Knowing what languages would be supported by
Unity iPhone would certainly relieve most of my
concern.

 

As soon as UT has clear information (and in case the outcome with apple requires mono to be cut, as soon as they have layed out their plan) they will surely share it

 

Hi dreamora,

I certainly agree with you. I have a great deal of
respect for Unity and the Unity team. I have
complete confidence that once Unity is certain
about things, they will announce it on their blog.

My confession (and I'm not saying that Unity should
necessarily do this) is that I wouldn't mind even
unclear information ... or to be more specific,
information that has certain probabilities attached
to it. For example: "its looking like we may support
Objective-C and C++ APIs even though we're not sure
yet" ... or "we have met with Apple on such and such
a day, although our NDA makes it impossible to share
what they told us". Again, I'm not saying that Unity
should do this, but this would help make me feel a
bit better. But then again, I'm neurotic, or
whatever the right word is. Even, a robotic,
"no news today", would make me feel better.
Again, not saying that Unity should do that either ...

 

The problem for UT likely is that Apple has already caused enough damage so they don't want to create any rukus until they know what will happen.

And I can say for sure that Apple has caused damage cause 2 close future contracts for iphone related development were iced in the light of 3.3.1 until the situation is fully cleared out.

As such I don't want any fast shots or false claims of having apple green lights as other companies do them.

 

I completely agree with you! I'm actually very
surprised at how some other companies basically said,
"we haven't heard anything from Apple saying that
such and such technology is prohibited, so we
believe we are fine". This is not comforting in my
opinion. And I actually strongly prefer Unity's
careful approach to the "we're fine because Apple
didn't say that we're not fine" approach!

So I commend Unity on their careful approach
(despite my yearning for any kind of information).

 

Oh, I should add that the "such and such" technology
that some companies believe is "okay" is not the
officially Apple sanctioned Obj-C, C++, or C languages.

 

I kinda doubt UT would move to C/C++/Objective C because that would invalidate the tonnes of C# and Javascript code which is out there in the form of tutorials, documentation, examples, scripts, stuff that other people have put together, etc. It'd be like saying here, everything you've scripted has to be rewritten.

And additionally, how could Apple even tell if something has been written in a specific language, if after compilation it all pretty much looks the same?

 

simply: because mono is present.
No mon present no C#, JS etc

 

I wouldn't care if unity used C++ instead of C#. Porting code is never as daunting as you would think (based on my experience). Most the work will go into replacing data structures with available equivalents in the new language and any Object oriented class over-riding etc. I would prefer they went with an psuedo object oriented language like C++ rather than pure C however as I make use of OO in our code quite a bit.

The only reason I even came to unity in the first place was a severe lack of 3D character animation support in more native libraries like SIO and Oolong. I suspect these issues have been sorted out since then however. The fact I code in C# for non-gaming development / commercial software made it a bit of a bonus but I know C++ as well and after a month or so of using it again would feel right at home. Cannot say the same for Obj-c, not sure I have the patience to go and learn that particular language from scratch. Nothing about it looks very intuitive at first glance.

 

I see no need for constant update posts from UT until there’s REAL news (or even a new sense of things). So instead, I propose a handy-dandy Doomsday Clock:

http://thebulletin.org/content/doomsday-clock

Naturally, it should be in the form of a Unity dashboard widget (with particle effects) so we can constantly check which way the hands are moving throughout the day Maybe start at 6pm for a nice round number. I will try not to panic before 9pm.

 

I think it's important to remember who the real jackasses in this whole drama really are. Apple is the cause of all of this, not Unity. Seems obvious, but after looking back at the last several pages of this thread, it seems some people have forgotten this.

It is frustrating and stressful for sure. I paraphrase Tony Soprano's theory of anger management: "I direct my anger on the people who deserve it!"

Daredevil Dave will be submitted in a week or so. I'll be damned if I'm putting 5 months of work on hold.

 

Hello Unity and the Community,

Just wanted to send a message to say THANK YOU UNITY for all the effort and the amazing products.

I am a little developer from an even smaller country called New Zealand and have worked in the IT Industry Internationally for just over a decade
and know what it's like to be the situation similar to what's happening with Unity and Apple at the moment.

I have recently been checking the OS4 and other iPhone forums recently and have read the entire 120+ pages.

I just want to say to Mr Higgins and the rest of Unity team, please don't feel like you have to rush out anything (announcement, builds, etc...)
on the basis of what some of the users are saying.

I won't go into which certain users because it isn't productive pointing the finger and as far as I know, not what UNITY is about.

Even though I am only new to UNITY, I know that UNITY is pretty special.
It was designed and is still maintained by very very special people and without them and some the amazing dev's in the Community, the end Product would not be a good as it is.

I have never made a post on any of the forums because to be completely honest, I didn't think that I could put any input into many of the discussions because of the in depth knowledge that is shared by the Unity Team as well as within the Unity Community itself.

Without the help of people like HiggyB, AnB, Dreamora, Tornado Twins, Will Goldstone,Eric5h5 and lot of other people that I'm missing out (sorry). I personally would not be able to even try to make a living from doing what I love.

I personally looked into a lot of other Engines before Unity ranging from Open Source to AAA and there was nothing that I could find apart from Unity that would enable someone like myself with a very tight budget to be able to even try to compete with anyone with a decent console or mobile engine (Crysis, Gamebyro and the likes)

At the end of the day UNITY is the light at the end of the Tunnel for a lot developers like myself.

As an Apple developer, I have to say that we also have a NDA with Apple and realize that if we were put in the same situation as Unity that we hope that our customers would understand.

I have a lot of respect for the Community and the Developers and Support staff at Unity for creating and maintaining such amazing products and I have the same amount of respect for Apple (Jobs and Woz) for creating an amazing platform to sell our products.

I for one think it's a good idea to keep Flash off the App Store as there will be less buggy code and bad ports and while this may ultimately affect us in a negative way I have to commend Apple for enforcing development standards so that the App Store is not flooded with badly optimized games which take up valuable App Store real estate and reflect badly on all developers writing good well thought out apps.

A lot of people here spend months developing good quality games which do not deserve to be listed next to quick cheap ports of Flash games that aren't optimized for the iPod/iPhone/iPad.

I do feel for the flash developers around the world. I myself have learned a lot over the years from numerous Flash developers/companies like Blurst for instance.

But It is my opinion that Unity and Apple is not to blame for this clause. If anyone is to blame it is Adobe.

If Adobe had updated their code to be compliant, like everyone else we would not even be having this conversation.

Adobe has let down themselves and their loyal developers with this one. They had two years to get it right but unfortunately it didn't workout.
Hopefully, they will get it right in Flash CS6.

So basically what I am trying to say is that if companies like Adobe played by the rules and made their product compliant when asked; Apple would not have to enforce this clause, which unfortunately now affects us too.

Some people might not like what Im saying and that's cool, I'm really not trying to annoy anyone (especially for my first post)

We all have mouths to feed but for me personally, I don't bite the hand that feeds me.
And at the moment both UNITY and Apple feed me.

The Community was and still is awesome and Thank You to everyone for sharing your time and knowledge so that developers like myself can learn to make better products and have a fighting chance in an increasingly competitive industry.

I have faith in the UNITY Team because they have never given me a reason to doubt them, if anything they are sometimes too honest but that's one of the reasons why I chose Unity.

I realize it's hard waiting for an answer regarding this issue because I am in the same boat as the rest of you and feel the same but this is just business and as much as we need reassurance right now.
Fighting amongst each other and passing blame is not going to help the cause.

Especially, when you think that the same people we are arguing with are the same people sharing their knowledge and trying to help us succeed in our own personal and business endeavors.

Most of us know what it's like to support a product and have people (non-technical) jump up and down and harass us when things are going Bad.
But how many people call or email just to say Thank you for doing an awesome job.

So come on guys, instead of giving Tom and the rest of the team a hard time just rest assured that when they can let us know exactly what's going, they will because they always have.



Cheers
MJM

 

I'm just wondering. Apple is talking about how they dislike multiplatform apps. Do they really mean software running on Windows, osx and Iphone, or are they talking about software potentially running on Iphone, Android and Windows Mobile? Could they use TOS as leverage to prevent Unity from adding Android support?

 

Who knows

At the time Android is preventing UT from adding android support as the platform still is lacking (you can copy games just folder wise, there is still not that much buzz about payed apps, no multitouch in the games and the performance even of technically superior android phones ranges quite below the iphone 3gs performance wise)

 

I think this is the major issue currently for those Unity users who have an eye on Android but want to see how the Apple TOS scenario pans out. On one hand you're being squeezed by Apple and cannot be sure if your apps will even be on the App store, on the other you're faced with a new and potentially exciting alternative outlet in Android, which in truth is pretty underwhelming at the moment.

 

If the iPhone thing turns out bad, it at least for me means that both platforms are dead until Google finally wakes up and realizes that they have something that could be potentially great if they finally stepped away from the home hacker mentality on the store and commercial investment protection end. (might be that it is annoying that the iphone / itouch does not show up as harddisk anymore like previous ipods, but at least it means that not every piece of **** can just drag'n'drop steal the work)

 

HOW DARE YOU HiggyB!!!

Just kidding

Seriously guys, I practically never write, but I always read this post and others.

Most of you guys, apparently have important contracts, others apparently are reliable freelancers professionals, and I guess that also are a bunch of you like me, starting with Unity.

But also there are a lot of ignorant of the situation, I don't really understand what do you want from Unity.

Sorry but I don't. They are trying to find a solution not only because they are nice just because they also are running a business!!!.

And I am with HiggyB, some of you (just in case I repeat..same of you) are a real pain!, crying like ladies... please dude.

This sucks, of course it sucks!!, but iPhone is not the only platform you can develop for, and if that your main goal...again stop crying and learn Objective C!! ( like I have to learn more english XD)

Peace.

 

err What's going on? I'm very confused

Just purchased Mac book few days ago so I could make iPhone games. I guess I'm screwed now? Can someone explain what's going on for someone who never used apple products before?

 

Apple have put a clause in their terms and conditions that may prevent people using unity (or it might not), no one really knows... Which is causing some frustration. But it should hopefully be resolved soon...

 

Relax man, i don't think anybody blames Unity or HiggyB.. Everyone knows what caused these events(Apple), just some of us disappointed why unity still has no valid answer to situation. We know unity is doing their best to find a solution.If there is a solution they fill find. But what if there is nothing to do; that's the only concern we have.(At least I have)

 

Bro, you should read some previous posts...

I understand your point, but UT is not a company with 5 monkeys...(I hope not!), and I agree with you. They are working in a solution because they can't build their business in speculations.

UT have the resources and the talented people needed to find a solution, maybe is going to take a while (couple of months?).


Today I explained to my boss all the story, and how maybe will be unable to make videogames for iPhone. His answer was "So, we have the web right?, and other platforms right?".

That is how I see it.

Peace.

 

months?
LOL that's crazy!
My boss has a heart attack if we miss a deadline by some day and you are talking about months.
Your boss don't even care if you can or not publish your work. wow.. can you ask him if he need a programmer?

 

There will be apps needed for the Droid when it comes out. So there are other alternatives out there.

 

I have not idea how much could take to make the necessary changes. I imagine the worst case scenario.

Is a small company doing local webpages, and they want to add advergamming as other possible product. So no, iPhone is not the end of the world for everybody.

I will, even when hi already have a good one

 

I am not a native English speaker, I apologize if there are some grammar errors and mistakes.

I totally agree with MJM.

I had said, I've developed my own engine before spent out almost 5 years until I met Unity.

I was totally SHOCKED because the basic concept of Unity is almost the SAME with my own engine. In many aspects, like GameObject, Awake(), Animate Out of camera, hierarchy of GameObjects, script compiler, even Coroutine, collision detecting callback...etc, THEY ARE TOTALLY THE SAME WITH MY OWN ENGINE BUT NAMES DIFFERENTLY!!!

I've said something JUST KIDDING, "The Unity Team certainly HACK our server and STOLE C++ source code of our Engine!!" -- OF COURSE, just coincidence, we have developed ALMOST THE SAME engine.

And I told my staves, "Let's use Unity and stop our 2 gen. enging's development to SAVE MONEY, because Unity have done a GREAT WORK! If we continue, our own engine must be another Unity Clone."

Sorry about garrulous words above, but I have to say it.

Because, there is BIG ONE difference between My own Engine (names GASS) with Unity --- I use a INTERPRETER for my C++ like script.

If we use my own engine, now we will be DEAD MEN.

Maybe some people here do not have experience for developing your own INTERPRETER for a Script of Game logic, you won't never know HOW SLOW EATING CPU can a INTERPRETER be!!

I have the same experience, so I understand the Unity is totally NOT like Flash does with INTERPRETING script.

If I was wrong, please correct me.

But, I know Unity is totally NOT a INTERPRETER, it won't eat cpu resource like Flash to INTERPRTE your script but NOT execute them.

There is only one issue of Unity: .NET Framework JIT(Just In Time). (Supported by MonoTouch)

The JIT system is a little confusing for complying with TOS of Apple. It is NOT a definite INTERPRETER, but its behaviour is similar with INTERPRETER, moreover C# is not included in TOS.

I remember the MonoTouch Team announce they don't do JIT for iPhone Version. I believe they don't.

So, the issue remain is, "DOES GAME LOGIC SCRIPTS WRITEING IN C# AGAINST THE TOS?"

As I know, once the Game Logic Scripts (any kind of tons) were compiled, they become more like data arrays, not even a computer language.

Unity compile Game Logic Scripts into Data Arrays before your app installing on iPhone, but the Flash compile them when your app is runing on iPhone EVERYTIME.

So, that's the difference.

But, I can understand what the UT concern about, because the C# is not on the list of compliant computer language of TOS --- I feel confused, too.

After all, I think guys here have to calm down, go to work on your projects, UT is still here, they don't abandon us and Unity, things need time to solve.

Besides, apps using Unity-iPhone are still approved by Apple, like ours:

http://itunes.com/apps/afroafroafrowearejewels

This is the video of Ver. 1.0 JUST BEEN APPROVED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_C3McwRGs4

This is the video of Gameplay Trick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2V5YT6Tx0Y

As you seen in the second video, there is a BIG UNITY ICON when our app launching, how come if Apple want to ban Unity but approve an app like this one?

I have confidence in the Unity and UT, we all will be fine! Just calm down, go to work, let UT make assurance when the can. (just like you guys' debugging work, you have tons of work to do before you can MAKE ASSURANCE)

So, I've uploaded another Update at last Fri. and WAITING FOR REVIEW, here is the video of New UPDATE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZvtQIeH-uk

As people said here, I don't worry about it, I believe Unity-iPhone will SURVIVE, NO DOUBT!! otherwise, just in case, tons of platforms we can choose, too. (although I love the revenue sharing program of Apple's app, but if I can not live...)

_________________
The Most Addictive Jewel game you must have:
AFROian Jewels ™
A Player Review "Monopoly on Steroids!" :
Mr. Hair - AFRO Estate Tycoon

 

I can understand why a lot of folks are pissed off. The folks who can't should stop telling the ones who are to calm down, take a break, etc. because you don't know the nature of their contracts or agreements. If they need to port their code they're looking at working extra weeks or months unpaid. That unpaid time can lead to missed bills, mortgages, etc. Why not continue on as if nothing happened? So then they finish their project on time and get paid. If the app gets rejected or pulled after the fact, the devs run the risk of being sued by their clients. At best they can hope for no repeat business and a ruined reputation.

I'm guessing UT are going to do something to ensure this problem doesn't come up again. If, however, they aren't actually planning ahead, but are instead just waiting to see if this will affect them, I bet these pissed off devs would like to know. From what little we have heard from UT, it sounds like they are planning on making some changes. I'm betting these pissed off devs just want some transparency into what these changes are.

 

No offensive, signing an agreement is always risky --- No one can guarantee things never change. If people got pissed off when things got changed, please don't sign it.

As a developer must have to click "I Agree" box before he downloading anything, NDA included.

I think the NDA caused UT can NOT announce anything now, NOT the situation they do NOT want to. Moreover the UT don't want it happened. It assault UT's business.

Besides, we do NOT even reach 10% of the point of benefit balance, yet. We have to loan money for our projects, NOT to mention do weeks even months of work without any payment. (actually we have to pay others.)

I believe many developers here have some kind of cash issue to solve during the project schedule.

I am not crazy, but if I decide to sign an agreement to use a tool for my living, I will go away if it is not working anymore, otherwise, optimistic attitude is necessay for working with it continued.

If people don't want to believe UT and wait things could be assured, it is about time to go away and find out other solutions -- this will be smarter action for ceasing more loss.

It's up to you, isn't it? :?

 

Flash isn't interpreted, it's compiled to byte code (and in the case of the iPhone, I think they compiled to arm, but I'm not sure).

 

This whole fiasco reminds me of a PSP game I was working on for EA.

EA: "but we want you to use software X + Y"
Us: "our studio uses A + Y. there should be no problem?"
EA: "so all assets are compatible for future development"
Us: "it will be compatible using A"
EA: "seriously, we don't think you can provide the quality using A"
Us: "and if we do some tests and show we can?"

We showed that we could do anything to quality they wanted.

Project was canned but thats another story.

It would be irresponsible of UT not to tell its customers that their time/investment would be rejected
if they used or are continuing to use Unity.

My guess is Apple is making UT jump thru hoops to make it as compliant to the new rules as possible.

 

Well, I am not sure what do they do in CS5, in the previous version, I remember designer could load source codes in run time, not all of them are byte codes.

Besides, I forgot to say, Flash never take any advantage of hardware rendering (such as GeForce), it even run a 2D .swf on a Quad cores PC slower than any kind of 3D app on a iPhone 3G. :?

 

Android 2.1 adds a lot including multitouch and a new generation of Droid smartphones is right around the corner such as the Droid Incredible which hits the streets in a few days.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/19/droid-incredible-review/

A bunch of tablets are also mere weeks away from release sporting the latest Android OS.

All in all I think it is an exciting time to be getting into the Android market.

Just my thoughts... Still hoping I didn't by an iPad for nothing...

 

It's still interpreted regardless if it's in byte code. The byte code isn't executed by the CPU directly but there is a low level machine that sits on top of the CPU which parses the byte code(flash runtime). It's still adds over head. To create native applications, code has to compile and call CPU opcodes directly. If Adobe said they compiled code to directly to ARM, you'd have to bypass Apples framework on a hardware level aka inline assembly. Maybe for math calculations. But I still think the rest of flash functions are still interpreted by llvm.


Look up on SWF specification.

If Adobe were to succeed, I think they should collaborate with Apple's hardware API like the untapped PowerVR's OpenVG vector graphics accelerator and the new Accelerate.framework which I think uses the NEON coprocessor in Cortex A8s.

 

I technically submitted Terrorist Zombies HD on the 22nd (12:30 am Cupertino time), and it was just approved today.

http://itunes.apple.com/app/terrorist-zombies-hd/id366428298?mt=8

Maybe Unity is ok for now.

 

Sure, it's still interpreted (unless it's JIT compiled I guess), but if someone says an interpreter I think of a source code interpreter. My bad I guess.

 

I don't see how new smartphones help.
The nexus one is superior hardware wise to the 3GS (1ghz cpu vs 600mhz, 3 times more polygons, ...), yet its game performance is even beatable by the 3G and stuff like that.

I doubt that the Droid Incredible will change much to that end.
Google has shown that they are incapable at the time of having a superior environment even with more than just slightly more superior hardware.

Thats what I meant with its no viable platform at the time.
Google is changing stuff slowly, so it is getting better. But the pace at which they change it is worse than Linux adoption for proprietary drivers and that already is / was a bad joke.

 

Really? Cuz that's what an agreement or contract is. Apple just decided they want to break contract. This is discussed a few pages back though, so never mind.

 

Not sure if this qualifies as good news, but an update to our app Stick Skater was approved today, we submitted this AND a lite version on the 22nd of April however the lite is still waiting for review.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/stick-skater/id367326781?mt=8

 

You're wrong.

The reason this whole situation came up in the first place is that for the as-yet-unreleased Flash CS5 Adobe implemented an Ahead-of-Time compilation of Flash code directly to ARM machine language, just like Mono/AOT and Unity did to get Unity running on the iPhone.

Apple's new language exists to ban this sort of workaround, so it applies to Unity just as much as it does to Flash, if you strictly follow the text as Apple wrote it.

Whether they APPLY the standard to non-Flash apps is a different question (and the fact that they don't enforce TOS violations in a very consistent manner is another huge problem with the AppStore), but as written any ban on Flash CS5 iPhone apps is also a ban on the current version of Unity because they use the same basic AOT compilation to machine language process and neither is based on C/C++/ObjC or JS-in-Safari as an "original language".

 

So, call me lazy, but don't have time to read through 127 pages on this thread

One simple question : Is Unity safe yet?

 

@groov: no

@funxed: The whole Adobe part came up because Adobe created a technology that breaks every single dev contract because it bypasses XCode and OSX completely by generating the final IPA on windows and osx independent of apples tools.
That combined with the clear fact that Adobe is incapable of creating a technology thats performant (check out the 7 flahs cs5 beta apps that all run that crappy that even Game Salad runs at stellar speed) enough to be welcome on the platform at all as it brings in thousands of new apps at very least.

oh and naturally the jobs - adobe dispute over Adobes past track of ignorance

 

Oh cool my status:

April 22, 2010 08:21 Waiting For Review
April 22, 2010 08:13 Developer Rejected
April 21, 2010 21:10 Waiting For Review

Guess tomorrow then

Damned I still need a Text for the promo emails. Has someone a list of useful promo recipients and is willing to share it?

 

What's "Developer Rejected" mean?

 

But if Unity isn't safe, why would Apple continue promoting it?

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/unity_unitytechnologies.html

Even if it was questionable, they'd at least remove it until it was 100% okay.

 

that happens when you upload a new binary - I had a sound bug caused by the enhancement pack.

 

But if Unity isn't safe, why would Apple continue promoting it?

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/unity_unitytechnologies.html

Even if it was questionable, they'd at least remove it until it was 100% okay.


EDIT: Sorry about the double up - not sure how / if I can / delete posts

 

that only means that apple has not started to enforce things yet.

But the presence of unity apps there does not proof anything not stipulate a general natural law as mathematicians and physicians would say.

 

First of all, Unity for Mac is completely fine by Apple,
since it is not affected by the iPhone OS4 TOS.
And that is what is being promoted on the link you
mentioned.

Its Unity iPhone that is in question.
Hopefully, Apple will decide to revise its TOS
in favor of Unity iPhone. If not, hopefully,
Unity will modify Unity iPhone to comply with
Apple's TOS.

Its unknown at this point what will happen
with Unity iPhone.

But as with everyone else, I am hoping for the best.
(And trying not to be anxious in the meantime ...
but not succeeding very well at that.)

 

Hi guys, I've been following this thread since the beginning.

I have made something you guys might enjoy or at least relate to.

It is an interactive fiction game about a game programmer trying to make a game for a game contest but he is continually distracted by things. The back story is all about how he was screwed by apple because the iphone game he had been working for six months was using Unity. It is a comedy, with dark, techie and toilet humor. I should add it is an adult game and I would give it an R rating for strong language.

Check it out if you have a few minutes. It is short and should only take 15-30 minutes or so. It was good therapy for me.

Play it online (supports iPhone, iPad and any browser with js)

Islands Far Away
http://parchment.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/parchment.html?story=http://www.bitjets.com/islands.js

 

Do not click on that link

 

Talking about my game? Why? It is a google server that runs the JavaScript if you notice the link.

It's harmless.