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I wrote an article on how to handle motivation and how to finish things

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tomicz, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. tomicz

    tomicz

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    Hi there,

    I am a fellow game developer just like you, I write content for freelancers (gamedevs) and I want to share my experience that can help you to finish what you started. Text in written more in general than game dev way, but still it's very useful for everyone, no matter what is your industry. It can help artists, writers, programmers, anyone.

    This is the link to the text http://tomicz.com/index.php/2017/02/13/motivation-is-overrated-start-doing-work/

    Darko
     
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  2. HiddenMonk

    HiddenMonk

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    Its not finishing things I need help with, but starting them.

    Sure, if you see your game as one giant project then you will indeed mainly have an issue with finishing it, but I see my game as a bunch of tiny projects such as; a weapon system, character controller, user input, UI, Localization, custom components, etc...
    I have trouble planning each of those small projects. Theres a bunch of stuff needed and it gets overwhelming. I try to break them down even more, but things rely on eachother, making it so I need to keep the whole picture in mind. I think about the future of what I will need. In fact, I used to think about what I "might" need, but that ended up in wasted work and over complications, so now I am kinda in the middle by thinking of what I do want, but might not need immediately.
    For example, I am currently procrastinating making my weapon system. I could design it one way, but in the future I want a gamemode where each kill gives you a new random layout with random weapon stats. I dont plan on releasing the game with that game mode, but I do want it (or something that involves random weapons), so I need to plan for that, else I will most likely need to redo my weapon system.
    I also stopped aiming for the "totally reusable components for any game anywhere" and am aiming for just something decent.

    But the bugs, the planning, the worrying I will need to redo it all...

    It is the struggle of my past attempts that prevents me from wanting to start another.

    However, usually, once I get started... I just keep going. Though, that may be due to me having previously spent a while procrastinating while also planning here and there and now finally having an idea of what I want.

    I think everyone has their own reasons for having trouble moving anywhere, and probably my main issue is thinking of what I code up might not be good enough and need to be redone...and then redone...and then redone... and being more difficult to be redone later than now.
    Some may say you shouldnt have coded it in a way that would make it difficult to replace in the future, but thats kinda what I mean by planning ahead too far and falling into a procrastination trap. I just aint good enough yet ^^.

    From your post, I feel your basically saying "Just do it"
    but thats the problem...
    How do I "Just do it"? ^_~

    Currently, I dont follow the "Just do it" pack,
    I follow the "Just keep swimming" pack.
    I should get there eventually =)

    Ive seen many threads with a similar topic to this, and I usually dont bother with em since its kinda a cliche now, but I guess I got that off my chest. Gotta do that every now and then I guess. Also a good way to procrastinate =P

    Also, the pure black background and white text of your post hurts my eyes a bit, but this is coming from someone who actually likes lighter themes (even the unity light skin), so I guess it just depends on the person =).
     
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  3. Schneider21

    Schneider21

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    I'd say, like @HiddenMonk, I struggle more with getting started than I do finishing. Often it's not starting the entire project, but starting on that critical element that will be core to your progress moving forward. So it's easy to work on stuff that I know won't offer too much resistance (and won't be as considerable an effort to rewrite), but for important things I can plan and debate and think myself into paralysis.

    Plenty of nights have been wasted trying to "Just Do It" and put something in place. By the next day, I look at what I had and can't make sense of why I thought that might work. When I don't have something somewhat fully documented before I create it, I lose sight of what I needed. But when I over-plan, I spend days of messing with spreadsheets and find myself looking at 10 new classes that need written to be able to handle the system and question whether this is the correct way to do it.

    So far, I've found the system that works best for me is a combination of seizing inspiration and forcing diligence. I have limited time to work on my game, but when I'm in the shower, or driving to work, or waiting in line at the grocery store... I'm thinking of my game. I'm planning things out in my head in a loose way and thinking of potential strategies for tackling subjects later that night. When I finally get in front of the keyboard, if I'm not feeling it yet, I'll write down what was in my head all day to reevaluate later. And on the nights when I'm really feeling the inspiration, I'll stay up until 2 working away until I can't keep my eyes open. It's not a perfect system, but it keeps me making small progress at least, while avoiding burning myself out and getting stressed by forcing it.
     
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  4. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I don't really have a problem making games. Other than the normal time factor. I was getting burned out from pushing myself to complete tiny games very quickly. I was trying to get at least 10 hours in per week and up to 20 although I rarely hit that sometimes I hit 16 hours in a single week.

    It was all just too much though so I stopped game dev completely for a couple of monrhs thinking I might just be done with it. Came back once again and this time made two key changes.

    First on the presentation side I decided on ultra low resolution pixel art and although I did some test scenes I am not even working on graphics or audio at all. Basically returned to what I used to do years ago of just using rectangles for the most part.

    So that was one major difference because I am not even spending 5 to 6 minutes on each frame of animation, etc. A lot more satisfying because when I work on the game I am working on the true core piece... the game within the game.

    Second thing is I made a rule to not work on game dev more than 5 hours in any given week. So instead of a minimum of 10 hours per week I now have a maximum of 5 hours per week.

    And instead of striving to work on game dev every night I try to work no more often than every other night. The last time I worked on my game was 5 to 6 days ago. Feeling great. Not burnt out at all. I was gonna work on the game last night but decided not to. Tonight I think I probably will.

    Anyway... for me it was just managing this game dev stuff better that made all of the difference. Because I am now not pushing myself like a madman game dev has no stress.

    I feel comfortable tackling bigger games than I used to because working like this I don't care if it takes 3 months or 10 months to complete the game.

    Finally when I do work I put in no more than 2 hours in a night. But because I am so fresh I get even more done each game dev session than I normally would.

    Maybe loosening up on it will help some other people as well. Just a thought.

    -------------------------------------------------------
    EDIT: I did no game dev again last night but I am very satisfied because I hit a new personal best of doing 300 push ups in one day. I have other things I am interested in besides games and fitness is a very important one. It works out well because each night I do not work on a game I feel a little more desire to work on a game. Eventually it will become strong enough to outweigh other goals and interests for that particular night.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  5. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Wow. Just remember that work isn't the end objective. And even if it was, working from dawn to dusk every day and working weekends isn't the best way to be productive. After a while doing too much starts to cost you productivity.
     
  6. cyberpunk

    cyberpunk

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    I think it's important to keep moving, in any direction really. Something that has helped me recently is not trying to "power through" things that aren't interesting me anymore. As a simple example, I purchase a lot of game dev books, which typically tend to be 500-600 pages or so. If I'm half-way through and getting bored, I pick up another book on a different topic. I can still go back and finish the first book, because many times I will remember what interested me in the first place. But switching like this keeps me moving and motivated, rather than trying to push through when I'm not feeling it at the moment.

    Same with my game projects. I have about a half dozen promising ideas that I tend to swap back and forth from. I'll do little feature tests in Unity, maybe try an idea to find it's not as fun as I imagined and maybe find some that work. But I'm not really attached to anything. So I just try whatever is interesting in the moment. Sadly, this means I haven't made as much progress as I would have liked (or what would be theoretically possible working all the time on one thing) but I find it's better for my state of mind. If you're not feeling something, then what is the point?
     
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  7. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    This is an important thing! I used to like bouncing back and forth between 2 different game projects for the same reason. And have been thinking that even with the tiny amount of time I am currently spending on game dev I may just add a second game.

    You are right... at least I have found the same thing... working on just one game project can well if not get boring at least it gets tiring after a while... monotonous.

    Also there are advantages like when working on game #1 pieces built and problems overcome can directly benefit game #2 and vice-versa. And some weeks we may want to work on a platformer game and other weeks we'd rather work on a shmup or FPS. Having 2 or 3 projects supports that.
     
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  8. tomicz

    tomicz

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    Different things work for different people, that's right. But if you want to make something, you must be finisher. Your motivation will fade through time, but if you still don't keep going there's a chance that you will end with too many projects but 0 finished. This is okay if you are a hobbyst, but if you want to make this your career, then you should reconsider things.
     
  9. Schneider21

    Schneider21

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    Well sure, but then, who is this article targeted at?

    If I'm trying to become a full-time professional anything, obviously I need to focus my attention and work really hard at it, right? What's different about game development in this respect than something like cooking, painting, or landscaping?

    I see a lot of these... I'm not even sure what to call them... Game Development Advice sites, I guess... that focus their attention on Indie™ developers* and offer advice that makes me think "You don't say..." I wish there were more resources focused on the hobbyists like me.

    * - Without really defining what that means

    As a hobbyist, it doesn't really matter if I work on my game or not. Worst case is I don't achieve one of my many dreams in life, but since I have a good job and a wonderful family, that's something I can live with (Side note: I'll also likely never hook up with Natalie Portman, so that'd be two dreams I have to put on the shelf). That said, it'd be great if I could get motivated/disciplined into working instead of playing some nights, and any blogger/Twitterist who found a way to push me in that direction would have a regular reader from me, at the least.

    Just throwing it out there.
     
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  10. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    What I could really use is something that helps me silence this urge:

     
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  11. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Clickbait. At least that's what I would call the majority of articles. I don't know about the OP's article. I simply couldn't find the motivation to bother reading it. :p
     
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  12. imaginaryhuman

    imaginaryhuman

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    I've struggled with this a lot. Partly it's cus I'm quite a sensitive chap so I'm easily put off when something goes wrong. I've tried all the tricks to do with working hard, having a plan, setting goals, reducing scope, making short-term goals, being disciplined or consistent, allocating time, having side projects to fulfill the boring parts, switching up whether I'm working on programming or graphics etc. NOTHING WORKS.

    The only way now that I think I can sustain any kind of 'progress' towards getting something done, is simply that I as a person am honestly and deeply aligned with what I'm doing. If I don't really genuinely love it, I can push myself through he 'hard work and pain', but eventually I will reject it because I'm aware it's not quite the right thing for me. You have to do what's in your heart and what you really believe in, and you also have to stop undermining and questioning and doubting yourself all the time. Be more decisive and confident. It's that sort of central core of confidence and happiness and flow and interest etc that keeps everything else afloat and running smoothly. Who wants to do soul-sucking empty hard work?
     
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  13. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I think a big part of it simply interest... importance. If game dev (or anything for that matter) is truly important to a person AND they don't have other things (problems etc) requiring time and energy I think a person will just naturally sort of gravitate to it and focus the time on it.

    At least that is how it is for me. I haven't worked on my barbarian game in a while now. Tonight will be 10 days. And for me I really don't care. If I wanted to work on it I would. But it doesn't need to be done. It is something to do if and when I want to do it.

    There are other things that I want to do and those I am doing. One is getting back into fitness big time. I've been doing that since the very end of September and made a lot of progress. Another is learning more about relationships / women and especially "mine" because I want to be the best boyfriend (and at some point ideally husband) I can be.

    Finally the other big reason is I am now focused on spring cleaning (early I know but close enough) and I love being outside working and doing. So when the weather gets nice I spend less and less time on the computer. Last year was a fluke thing where I made 2 games in the middle / end of summer.

    Anyway... if this was something super important I would focus on the game. But it isn't plain & simple. There are other things far more important. This doesn't mean I will never work on the game (maybe I will tonight and then again maybe I won't) just means it comes last not first.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  14. tomicz

    tomicz

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    Not really a click bait, if you want to call it that way, then okay. I have a lot support on Reddit, it was on top page on several sub-reddits which validates the article.

    Above in the article I wrote how you can finish things. There's really no other way around, it's just hard work. You can't work an hour a week or even more and expect to finish things. If your point of existence is being spiritual and just share love and not work much, then I am scared that you may not make the game. You can't just stand here and blame me because I can't help you to finish your projects. I see many developers here 5+ years in Unity but they have 0 projects finished, and that's fine I don't judge them. But if you really, really want to finish something then start working, that's the whole point of success. Go visit some youtube channels (Valutainment, Gary Vaynerchuk etc) and see their opinion, they will just tell you hard work, tons of hours (every single day). If you can't make that, that's totally fine, nobody is judging you, but don't expect anything in return.

    You can build normal apps if that interests you, as they take much less time to produce. Game dev can take up to 1000's of hours and you must be ready for a challenge.
     
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  15. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    You must not have built normal apps of any meaningful size. Worst part is that normal apps are likely the job you'll end up with until you've successfully gotten game development making enough money to be sustainable. So not only will you be putting that hard work in your own game, you'll be putting it into your normal app day job too.

    By the way I recommend using a term like "dedication" or "determination" over "hard work" because even with motivation the work you're doing may still be considered "hard work". It's just that you're motivated to do it because you enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  16. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Well I don't think anyone here doesn't realize that yes to complete a game they must actually work on the game. And while there are probably many people who have never completed a game yet there are also many of us who have not only completed a game but actually completed many games.

    I agree of course it comes down to just simple stuff in the end. Break the project down into smaller steps. Focus on getting the work done. Actually do the work. That is basically it.

    However, I think if completing the game is really important to a person they will be doing this already. Unless they are just terrible at breaking steps down into smaller steps, simply have no time available to spend on their games or... are at a roadblock such as needing graphics content and are unable to find it or make it themselves.

    For myself... I'd like to make my barbarian game. But it is just that. Something I'd like to do but not really something I want to spend the time actually doing. Not today or in the past 10 days or so. But maybe tomorrow or the next day or next week it will be important to me to work on the game. So again I see it like if a person really truly wants to complete a game they will complete the game.

    Every game I have completed I had far more than a general view of I'd like to make this game. I was passionate about making the games. I truly wanted to make the game and there was no question that I would make the game. And I had a clear vision of what I was making. Sure not every single thing planned out but enough clarity to actually begin work and breaking the project as a whole down into simple steps.

    People do what they really want to do. What is most important to them. This is why some people never get beyond creating graphics for example. They will list many reasons and stress the importance so much but the bottom line is they spend all of their time working on graphics simply because that is what is important to them. That is what they enjoy doing the most. What gives them the most satisfaction. For others, it is simply coming up with game ideas and writing out 10,000 word game design documents. For others making music. For others creating AI systems, dev tools and so on.

    We'll do what is really important to us. So when I wrote my earlier posts I was trying to get this simple truth across. If a person isn't completing a game they yes definitely have to put the work in as you have said. BUT... there is a step BEFORE that. And that is what I was addressing. They have to really truly want to complete the game and have a reasonably clear (solid) & realistic vision of the game. Not just kind of want to create the game. Not just have a very vague idea of the game. They need at least enough clarity to actually begin work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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  17. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    Nothing like a forum regular throwing out accusations of "Clickbait" while simultaneously admitting they have absolutely no idea what is even being discussed.

    These posts truly baffle me.
    Your article is crap. But I didn't read the article so I don't know if that is true. Trolololol!"
     
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  18. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Ironically the only people who have misinterpreted anything have been you and the OP. I highly recommend both of you read my post again rather than simply stopping at the first word.

    Edit: By the way in case it wasn't obvious from my second post, I did eventually read the article and frankly the information isn't really useful to anyone who has had any sort of responsibilities. There may be some value in presenting it to someone young but everyone will eventually come to the conclusions on their own so it's very limited in value.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  19. tomicz

    tomicz

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    This is not pointed to someone who has the time or not, it's pointed to someone who wants to make something. And if a person thinks he can make it, he will make time too.
     
  20. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    And this has to be the most silly thought process in the world. Let's use a different teachable topic as an example; It will show how silly this statement is.

    There may be some value in presenting [the idea that you need to market your game] to someone young but everyone will eventually come to the conclusions on their own [after risking bankruptcy] so it's very limited in value [to tell them].

    There may be some value in presenting [the concept that leaded drinking water kills humans] to someone young but everyone will eventually come to the conclusions on their own [after seeing their friends die] so it's very limited in value [to tell them].

    There is no value in a lesson because everyone will eventually learn the lesson on their own? W...T.....F....? The very reason we TEACH is so people don't have to "eventually learn the lesson on their own". I won't even go into the fact that assuming everyone will eventually learn the same lesson is silly on its own; let alone the irony of your statement. (Isn't constructive criticism just a vessel to teach?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  21. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    You're repeatedly doing it for me just like I'm repeatedly doing it for you.

    At the very least there is no value to the article in the place he put it. The Getting Started section of the forum would have been more applicable because at least new developers are there. This section of the forum mostly has people who have been doing it for a good while.

    Regardless the concept of "You will lose motivation, so you will need dedication" isn't exactly rocket science here. Everyone has tasks they love and tasks they hate in just about every part of life. Homework assignments, chores, etc. How many people are going to reach the point they can understand game development without having encountered this concept?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  22. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Both of you. Turn your ignores back on. Don't click the show button. It never works out.

    :p
     
  23. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    I like your section "Follow the right people". The "right people" will be different for everyone, but I agree with your premise, which is that you need to find people who help you get stuff done as oppose to just people who get you energised or excited.

    On that note, I recently found a quote I really like:
    I love this for two standout reasons in particular.

    First, it speaks against inspiration-based work which is something I've never really liked the idea of. I don't have an issue with inspiration in and of itself, but the idea of not being able to work because of a lack of inspiration just doesn't sit with me. It sounds like a justification for not having a work process.

    Second, it highlights the hard work aspect of things. Sometimes we don't feel like it, we're tired, our mind is elsewhere, whatever the case may be. Someone who is serious about their work will just knuckle down and get to it, though. If you've got that work process in place then a lack of inspiration or energy will still slow you down, but it won't stop you. And I find that having that process in place and plodding through the early steps often builds the momentum that then leads to energised work.

    When I was looking up that quote I also found another:
    Again, emphasis on the hard work part. To me this also hints at how inspiration often comes not as a bolt out of nowhere, but as a part of being in the habit of trying different stuff and seeing where it takes you.

    In combination, the two hint at something I learned years ago that really helped me: you don't have to make perfect things, and it's fine to try stuff that doesn't work out. Before I realised this I used to never start something until I thought I'd figured out how to do it "right". This meant that I did less stuff, which meant I gave myself less opportunities to learn or stumble across new ideas. When I stopped caring about that I started focusing more on getting stuff "done" instead of "right", I ended up trying more things, gaining more experience, giving myself more opportunities to learn, and exposing myself to more problems and more solutions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  24. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    This speaks much more to me than the article linked in the OP. I also still think about something you once wrote along the lines of "it's important to focus on finishing something instead of just focusing on working really hard". We've all seen projects with super dedicated devs behind them that work really hard on them for years, but still don't finish, because they work hard, but not efficiently.
     
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  25. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    That's kind of the way I see it. Probably not as it was originally intended but for me anyway I'd rather just work on my current game project one day per month and get a lot done than to force myself to put time on it every day. But again it all goes back to how important the game project is to a person. As @angrypenguin said "Someone who is serious about their work will just knuckle down and get to it".

    That was exactly me but it is not really important to me now. So I am not treating it seriously. I kind of reassessed my priorities you could say and game dev is definitely very low.

    I think it basically comes down to this in the end. However you want to word it doesn't really matter. If it is important to a person to complete their game they'll do it. They will find a way. They will set aside time to do it. If it is not important to a person they won't do those things and will just work on it when convenient or when the mood strikes or maybe just not at all period.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  26. tomicz

    tomicz

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    I absolutely get your statement and it's okay. If someone wants a casual approach then the article above may not relate to you. I aimed article for those who are hustlers, who really want to make it. I don't know if I could write an article for casual devs, as I never do things casually in my life. Everything I do in life is as a profession, get good at it, sell it, earn money. I totally understand the thing that you have family and you must spend time with them, that's totally cool, I will do it too when I meet conditions. You could create very small games and pitch new ideas, release games once a month. I would do that if I were you (just suggestion).
     
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  27. cyberpunk

    cyberpunk

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    If it means anything, I did like the article. I've also read Gary Vaynerchuk (and other authors in that category) and found his advice inspiring. Don't let the haters get you down.
     
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  28. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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  29. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Yeah, I remember saying that. It was about "getting things done" instead of "doing work". It's not just about spending lots of time on the thing, it's also about picking tasks that bring it closer to completion rather than tasks that just feel good to do.
     
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  30. greggtwep16

    greggtwep16

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    For certain people (from a psychology perspective) this article may be helpful. To be specific for people that have no problems starting a project but never finish it and only want to do what excites them at the moment this article might be helpful. Even then though, it is rather common sense and this personality type is always going to struggle with discipline the most. I guess an article on it doesn't hurt but discipline to those that don't naturally have it is going to be a lot of effort and it's probably better to mention the more typical approaches for this problem. Specifically, stay organized, split things up into small chunks to see progress every day, routines are your best friend, etc. These tend to keep your behavior moving forward and positive.

    That being said this applies specifically to that group. Others will struggle starting and not finishing. Some people will find they work best with an external pressure (like needing to eat or a boss breathing down their neck) and some people will work worst with this pressure and need freedom and space. There are many personality types in the world and advice for one group will work poorly for another. It's best sometimes to think specifically of the patterns in your own life for when things went well and when they didn't and try to emulate what went well. If you are fairly self aware you can usually know the best way of thinking and best environment for you that gets results. If not self aware you can always ask those that know you best (spouse, friends, etc.) or if necessary talk to a professional if you find yourself making the same mistakes again and again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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  31. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    While everyone is indeed different, making games is not. The only way you will ever finish is by having the discipline to actually do the work.
     
  32. greggtwep16

    greggtwep16

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    For sure making games always requires a lot of work. However, the mental approach that will help you stay disciplined enough to do that will vary from person to person.
     
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  33. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    o_O
    ...why did you bring up "reddit support" out of the blue?
     
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  34. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    From my understanding discipline has nothing to do with any mental approach, other than ignoring the need for one & working despite a negative one. It transcends personality by making personality irrelevant.

    According to this type of philosophy, it is a skill on its own you must develop. You don't find motivation to "help you stay disciplined" but instead you just commit to discipline regardless of all factors.

    Discipline in this context would be about
    "Just doing the work, every day, regardless of any reason."
    or
    "Just doing the work every [time chunk], regardless of your [mental state]."

    Discipline is despite mental state, rather than relative to it.

    As crazy of a concept that is to say "Ignore your mental state? LOL WUT?" that is what those with discipline do. They put in the hours even when they don't want to; even when they have no motivation; even when they hate to at that time. This has to result in an irrelevant "mental approach". There is no "help stay disciplined" there is only "being disciplined", if you will.

    In fact the very definition of it is to "Control Your Behavior". Meaning to condition yourself to work regardless of mental state.

    dis·ci·pline

    1.
    the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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  35. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    In psychology, this would probably deal more with Habits and the elements associated with forming habits.

    In other words...

    Developers learn to work every day, despite negative mental states, without the need for any positive mental approach, because they eventually learn it is better for them & ultimately more rewarding.

    Rewards vary from "I got a paycheck!" to "I completed a game. Wow. I actually did it. And I love my game! I want to make more games!"

    Really, this is all the advice I ever see in gamedev circles. Even GiGi's 12 week challenge is (correct me if I'm wrong) designed to build Discipline. You see the reward of finishing a game, which propels you forward to do it more often.

    I've even heard anecdotes (by Game Developers who have successfully released games) that they were consistently stuck in an "Unfinishable Rut" until they finally released a (very small) project. Once they did this, it instillted in them a sense of reward for discipline, which allowed them to begin throwing out fully released titles one after another.

    The common advice seems to boil down to this:
    1. Use Motivation to finish a project.
    2. The only way to do this, is to make a very small project that is finished quickly.
    3. Upon completion of your first game, you will learn the reward of Discipline.
    4. Knowing the reward, you can now more willingly practice Discipline, supplemented by Motivation, to finish slightly larger (but still very small) projects.
    5. You start this process by first draining all your Motivation, then use previous memories of Reward (feelings resulting from releasing a game) to convince yourself it is best to use Discipline to finish the remainder portion.
    6. Eventually you master Discipline and can remove Motivation entirely, resulting in the ability to complete large projects (any project).
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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  36. CarterG81

    CarterG81

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    @tomicz I actually forgot to mention that I really liked the article.

    However I actually didn't click it until just now. Upon looking at it & reading it, I realized I had already read this before- found it from somewhere else (maybe reddit?). Perhaps the day it was published - because I remember reading this a bit ago.

    Anyway, I remember thinking at the time this was a great article. It also seems to be the trend I am seeing in gamedev communities. They're actually grabbing on to the idea of "Discipline is what you really need" when before they didn't really have any unified advice about how to finish a game. Although this could just be my own limited perspective, having realized it's all about Discipline just recently (and thus are now identifying others who say the same thing - so maybe gamedevs have always said it but I never noticed it because I simply didn't know what to believe).

    I also remember reading an article even further back than when this was published, which shared some of the same ideas. I just don't remember where (no link).
     
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  37. greggtwep16

    greggtwep16

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    I'll grant you your overall point that in the strictest of definition that discipline is ignoring what you want to do and sticking things through.

    However, we live in a world full of choices, what to do for a living, what to eat, etc. You can have discipline on any arbitrary path through life, but at some point you have to choose what to do. It would be naive to think that your first path chosen was the best and the first time you choose to do something else by that strict definition you aren't being disciplined. There are times when choosing that different path is good (like if you were absolutely miserable and made a horrible first choice) and times when choosing that different path is bad (like if you knew you were on a good path but gave into temptation).

    We constantly as humans need to decide for ourselves which scenario it is or the million shades of grey in between and we are influenced by tons of things. Doing behavioral things to keep us on that "good path" without going to the last resort of "trudging through to get it done" can have a net positive effect. Things like mental well being and other things do have a correlation with productivity. Its just depending on the personality what exercises or tricks to accomplish this will be different. There are obviously times where you just have to suck things up but if that's your whole life something is definitely wrong.

    On an ironical point, assuming we both have current project(s), we aren't being disciplined arguing philosophy/psychology instead of getting said project done. At least for me though if I didn't take said break my computer would be damaged because it's not reading my mind and instead is listening to my code right now (silly computer) and issues are occurring because of that :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  38. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Nothing wrong with discipline. Its an effective strategy for some people.

    My main objection was to statements like this in the article 'you will realize how they sacrificed themselves', 'Wake up early, 6 AM and start working. Work weekends too!' and 'and out work all your competitors because they are not ready to make a sacrifice.'

    While working yourself to death is an effective strategy to get ahead, it comes at a high cost. Is there really a point to having the most money, the most successful game, the most xxx if you've lost friends, family, health and so on?

    What's the point working hard if you have no time to enjoy the benefits of your work?
     
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  39. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    I used to think that working away out of pure self-discipline was a good thing, and sometimes it is, but I realized it's just a crutch and like any crutch, not only is it horribly inefficient but you get used to leaning on it if you spend too long on it, and never get around to fixing the real problem.

    There's no substitute for having all the parts of your mind working together in concert and propelling you toward your goal. Any time you simply bulldoze your way through a psychological problem, you're leaving behind mental assets that could have strengthened you, and unless you happen to reach a better place quickly, you just postpone the problem.

    I think the ideal state for game development (and most creative things) is obsession. Cultivating an obsession is far more efficient in the long run than trying to develop the capacity to defeat your mind in combat.

    Only by living and breathing what you do, feeling like you belong there and giving yourself affirmation when you succeed with it, can you really get 110% (as opposed to maybe 65% at best).
     
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  40. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    That's exactly what I was doing focusing on tiny games with about a 3 to 4 week dev cycle. It does work out to get things done. I decided I'd like to tackle a larger game for the next one. At same time realized I needed to cut way back on the game dev. I had reached burnout. Completely lost interest for a while and still have very little desire. I think it will come back at some point.

    I do want to say I think your article is good and definitely understand the value of hard work. I agree completely with that and about following the right people! When I am focused on a project I work very hard. It's just that for me I am now pouring that effort into other things.

    For example, this month I'll end up putting about 60 hours into home improvement and another 80 hours into fitness to improve myself and get back where I once was. And then another 40 hours into focused relationship personal growth efforts. It's just where I am at currently.

    So I value hard work BUT as time passes the more I also understand the importance of not making work your life. I work to have a life. I work on things important to me and those around me. I don't live just to work.

    However in the context of your article and game dev I can see where you are coming from.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  41. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Maybe I should write some articles from the context of being a very part-time game dev.

    Because while some things remain the same there are differences.

    One of the most important things IMO (certainly for me personally) is gaining experience and improving your skill to the point where you can develop very quickly.

    That combined with NOT trying to create overengineered systems (YAGNI) and streamlining the scope as much as possible (all around from graphics style to game world size, number of features, etc) are the keys to actually completing a game when working in a very part-time manner. Basically stop trying so hard to "be clever" and impress software engineers with "amazing" flexible systems and focus on the core needs of the game.

    If a person can dedicate 20 hours or more per week then sure scale things up more. OR take a long term view. Just realize it will take a long time to complete a bigger game when working a very minimal amount of time. And that is okay. Be okay with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
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