Atari Box?

Oh that was just me expressing my dislike for the wii. I was not saying nintendo was anything less than the full fledged yakuza backed supreme money makers they are. Any company that can make games for over 100 years has us all beat by miles.

I do hope the atari box is more than just a retro game machine since i can emulate pretty much anything up to and including ps2 that I ever cared about anyway.

 

Totally. Nintendo has this miracle way of selling stuff to people that don't buy games or gaming devices. There is a huge number of people that have only ever owned the wii and no other console, or have only ever played Pokemon Go and never touched another mobile game. I don't think Atari has a hope of competing in that space.

Very valid point. I occasionally have a hankering to play old school dos games from when I was a kid. I don't go out and buy a 286 to do this. I simply download DosBox and find a internet archive somewhere with the game I'm interested in.

Atari could probably make more money off releasing an emulator on Steam with access to their full library for $20 then they ever will trying to get back in the hardware game.

 

Research and development is the most expensive part of making a new console. Atari Flashbacks require very little if any actual R&D and thus don't need to sell anywhere near the same number of devices/games that modern consoles do. If Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony only sold a fraction of the games they do now they'd have to shut the divisions down.

A brand new console like the AtariBox is a completely different story. Unless they are taking an already completed design from the company they have partnered with they will need to sell a considerable number of devices/games in order to break even let alone make a profit. Just as an example the Wii U is a failure despite selling 13.56 million units.

If the AtariBox warrants a new design and they only sell a million units it will sink them.

 

Not actually true. Nintendo admitted shortly after the Wii U was released that it was the first console that they were selling for a loss on the hardware. Nintendo was notorious for releasing systems based on dated technology and always selling the hardware for a profit, while their competitors would take a loss on the hardware and garner most of their profits from software licensing.

The cheap Atari retro systems that have been released over the years are all sold for a profit on the hardware. They have to be, as there is essentially no new software being released on them. They have to pay a licensing fee to Atari in order to use the Atari name and old games, but that's it. Even with the inexpensive nature of those diminutive flashback systems, they still turn a profit on the hardware.

While it is true that R&D could contribute to the costs of whatever this new Atari Box is, I seriously don't think we're looking at a comparable system to other modern consoles. This isn't going to be a break-the-bank scenario for the development. And whereas systems like the PS4, XBone, and Switch are all skirting the profit line, I am quite sure that the Atari Box will be sold for a profit on the hardware. Without a solid development following, they simply can't afford to subsidize the hardware. As such, they won't have to sell an immense number to break even. They just need to sell enough to cover their R&D costs.

 

Seems like many folks here are so focused on AAA they don't really understand the idea of a niche. Basically you can see it as if you have no interest in this thing unless it ends up being like a major player or whatever... then chances are high it's not meant for you.

That's the point of a niche. Things like the PICO-8 appeal to the people it was intended to appeal to. No more and no less. The PocketChip handheld... same thing. If a person is happy doing what the masses are doing playing games on their phones and big name consoles, AAA games etc that is cool. But this kind of thing (AtariBox) I'd guess is not something intended to appeal to such people. It'll probably be for the people who want to try something different than what most people are doing.

It might be a bunch of junk or it might be very cool. No way of knowing. But I don't see how people can predict success or failure at this point when we have no idea what it actually is, who it is intended for or what their market goals are.

 

I knew it was launched that way, but was it for the entire lifespan of the console? Wikipedia has a chart of consoles sold over a period of four years and the majority of them were sold two years after the console released. There was a price cut shortly before sales spiked but I would have thought they'd eventually break even.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Sales

 

There is reason to speculate on it being trash and it's a combination of Atari's complete changing of hands repeatedly over the last 30 years, Infograme's absolutely terrible business decisions (they're Atari now), and the fact that we know it'll be based on PC technology, which puts it in a pretty clear bad position.

Comparing something that has a dedicated teaser page to Pico-8 is pretty ridiculous. Pico-8 started from the ground up as a toy for game developers and nothing more. Pico-8 knew its audience well enough and built on it. The Atari Box is, with its teaser site, clearly aiming to build a far bigger and more general audience than that. If the teaser site gave any indication it was for anyone else then sure, maybe your comment would carry a little more weight, but as it stands, it's clear that Atari is trying to reach as many people as possible for as little money as possible.

 

You could be right. Then again you could be wrong. I don't know enough about what they are making or who they are making it for to have strong opinions on it. When I see their landing page it comes across as a test just to see what interest there is period and capture that with the sign ups.

I don't think that page would have any significance to the majority of gamers because it doesn't show a clip of COD or anything else they would likely be interested in. So by default my impression is the main folks who would have their curiosity piqued are people who are (a) die hard Atari fans or (b) retro gamers in general or both. Again, that is just my impression. Maybe they are making a toaster for all I know.

I don't believe that it will fail simply because it is Atari. It can certainly fail but the same is true of any company. I also don't think a product has increased chances of failing simply because it is based on PC technology.

 

Given all the speculation vs. what is actually known about this new "Atari" console, the above statement from @GarBenjamin PERFECTLY and SUCCINCTLY sums up the thread.

Honestly, no further posts are necessary.

 

That's just a cease and desist letter.

From the responses the developer gave he clearly would never work for the company. On the other hand he might be willing to negotiate a license with Atari for the game and a Twitter post from him a week ago indicates he has been working on the game to some degree.

https://twitter.com/llamasoft_ox/status/878774468092547073

Ouya did the exact same thing prior to their launch too. You can't exactly launch a console without any games after all.

 

Sure. They need some way to actually gauge the interest in this thing. Its pretty standard vapourware process. Announce a product that doesn't exist. Wait and see if anyone is going to throw money at it. If there is money, proceed to actually make the thing. If not, quietly pretend it didn't exist.

That's why we haven't heard any solid details on it yet, the details don't exist to begin with. The AtariBox is currently undefined. If the market interest in a retro console is there, that's what they will build. If there is money to compete with the big players, that's what they will build. If there are people willing to pay for a wooden case and nothing else, that's what they will build.

 

I'd much rather Atari just start making woodgrain and plastic ATX or mini/micro-ATX cases than a console. That'd be much more interesting than anything modern Atari could actually think up though.

 

I am honestly neither die hard atari or full fledged retro anything. I am curious still. Maybe just because I'm naturally curious. I have an atari in the closet been 3 years since I've seen it. I have every retro game under the sun emmulated and ready to play. I do on rare occasion break em out for nostalgia sake but usually only when we have some guests that remember that kind of thing. I really hope they have something fresh it would be good to see new things.

If this was an option for my last build and it wasnt overpriced or somehow lacking I would have chosen it. In fact if I could buy one now I would probably get one and change it out when I had a good excuse to spend money like a birthday or Christmas. My house looks like it came out of the 70s, because it was remodeled heavily and added on to in 74. I remodeled it when I bought it but kept the same 70s wood paneling and style of the house. Instead I wound up with some black and red light up with vented screen monstrosity that looks like a transformer from the front. It was cheapest and I didn't really like any of the other options.

 

I've been planning my decor around a similar style and really want a simple low-power gaming box I can put under my TV. I have all the parts I need except for a case and a nice woodgrain would match the low-fi gaming look I like my consoles to have, mostly because of the Atari. Those and the old Sega consoles were such a great look.

 

I get that. Truth be known I am not full-fledged retro gamer either. While there are people who only play retro games (or at least retro style games) I am not one of them. Although I do play such games more than I play non-retroish games I still enjoy Diablo 3, Dragon's Dogma etc. Also not a die hard Atari fan although I do find the old Atari games (and others) interesting. Basically I find all games interesting to a degree whether from 35 years ago or released today.

There are people who never play retro games... one look at such a game and they sum it up as garbage and never play it. What I was saying is these people IMO are less likely to be interested than someone who at least occasionally plays a retro game or is open to playing a retro game. I mean truly interested not just sitting with a bowl of popcorn watching to see if it ever releases and if so if it quickly crashes n burns.

Interested enough to enter their email because they actually want to know for themselves and not because they want to get the inside scoop so they can be one of the first to post details on a forum. You know what I mean.... there are different kinds of "interest" and "curiosity".

I guess we could check and see how much discussion and what kind of discussion about it is going on at mainstream gaming forums. I just don't see why they would really care in the least when they are probably excitedly awaiting the next release of their favorite AAA game. Again other than to be one of the first to know... or to be able to say see I told you it'd be stupid. Etc. lol

If the video or page content had provided anything to hook into it'd be different. But the only thing we can see is an object that basically looks very much like the old vcs-2600 console. That is the only hook there. Unless I missed something and that is very possible.

I do believe of course you will have people that are curious in general I just wouldn't consider them automatically in a target audience. Again many of that kind will be driven only by desire to be able to quickly post on forums, make YT videos, write articles/blog posts etc.

Of course some will be curious just to be curious and as soon as this is done they will be curious about the next possibly shiny thing they see. Or the bird that just flew by the window. Etc.

 

I know you're being slightly dismissive with this idea. But... I can't really argue with it either. If the Atari Box ended up just being an Atari-themed ATX or Mini-ATX premium computer case, that would be a pretty sweet product. Bonus points if they were to use an actual wood panel, instead of simply having a wood-grain veneer. (and steel for the chassis itself, if it's a PC case it has to be some manner of metal) A run of Atari-themed PC enclosures would be a little bit anti-climactic after the teaser, but it would also be a pretty good idea.

 

Me

 

Wouldn't surprise me if they ended up with something similar to one of these single board computers. You can get some reasonable hardware for an affordable price. Quad core processors (Atom or Pentium series), at least 2GB RAM, Intel HD GPU (Broadwell which is Intel HD 5000 and 6000 series), etc.

https://shop.udoo.org/usa/
https://www.solid-run.com/intel-bra...oard/solidpc-q4-carrier-board-specifications/

 

Ha ha. That was partly a joke. Although a bird flying past the window or a rabbit hopping around the back yard generally does catch my attention. Often times more so than a game does these days. It's to the point where seeing a common bird or squirrel is more rare than seeing a new game or even a new great game.

 

Are you sure it's even going to be a console at all? Maybe it'll be one of those LootCrate-style subscription boxes.

"Let's see what's in my Atari Box this month.... We got a Space Invaders T-shirt. Nice. Pac-Man Funko Pop- put that on the shelf with all the rest of them. Oh look, there's some really thin Centipede refrigerator magnets that you have to peel off yourself. Oops I ripped one."

 

It does claim to be based on pc hardware.

 

I don't notice them any more, they're just vague minority background noise. The majority of people don't concern themselves with playground spats.

 

I didn't even recognize it as such. I just saw a query and responded. Somehow the loot crate hate didn't register in my memory almost like i didn't read it thoroughly enough. Maybe I unconsciously skipped the second part.

 

If you want to be technical about it your modern Apple computer is simply a PC with a special lockout chip. Which if you think about it isn't that different from a console. Consoles have special ways of preventing unauthorized software from being run on them. It's just the opposite way for Apple. You need the chip for the authorized software (macOS).

Some people are just easily offended or quick to assume someone meant more than they did.

 

You're referring to Bill Loguidice, aren't you? I thought he had already been mentioned in this thread but it appears my memory is confusing this thread with the contents of a private conversation.

By the way you may want to think about this quote of his before you get too hyped on the AtariBox.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-10#entry3786298

On the contrary you can't answer the question for us. Unless you are him or were directly involved in the exchange of information between him and Atari you can't know whether he knows or not.

 

Since we're being pointed towards Bill Loguidice's posts I thought I would compile important statements he made.

The AtariBox is not based on vintage hardware (this was confirmed by Atari) and is not solely intended for emulation.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-1#entry3779913
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-8#entry3785708

The AtariBox has nothing to do with modern consoles let alone any chance of competing with them if they wanted to.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-3#entry3781072
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-7#entry3784840
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-15#entry3789169

Atari's partner is not Valve (he's responding to the post directly above his - this doesn't mean it can't be a SteamBox).
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-12#entry3787822

The AtariBox has nothing to do with VR.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-8#entry3785113

The AtariBox has nothing to do with cloud gaming (like OnLive).
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-12#entry3787872

He mentions he has no inside info. He is working solely off impressions of the device and speculation.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-15#entry3789169

Once again he mentions there are many reasons to be skeptical of the device.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-10#entry3786298

 

If you use your name on an internet forum to post sentences on the internet you can ony expect your name to be posted around the internet. I see no harm in quoting his previous statements and linking to their original location.

 

If this is an actual gaming device of some sort, (and not just a PC enclosure) then developer relations and on-line community support are going to be crucial to its business strategy. The web-site and on-line tools they release for the device will be more important than the device itself.

Hardware in this day and age is almost an afterthought for mid-to-low-tier development. If you aren't trying to craft the next Crysis or Unreal Engine demo, you don't need the kind of hardware power that most modern consoles already possess. Cramming a box full of high-end tech is a waste of time. Trimming the hardware down to be as lean, efficient, cheap, and developer-friendly as possible is far more significant.

And convincing people to actually use, and continue using the platform is even more important. Getting a decent on-line community started and involved is crucial.

 

That's a pretty long response time for what amounts to an automated message.

 

An automated message that also says nothing you couldn't already glean from the website itself, as well.

 

So they actually sent out an email after more than a month of being online.

It looks to be about the size of a Wii U gamepad, and their use of an SD card slot and such a small profile along with their use of "PC hardware" that this thing will probably just be an emulator box that can run other games as well. That said though, I really doubt this thing is going to have any significant amount of power in it still, especially considering its profile. If my expectations were low before, they've pretty much bottomed out at this point.

 

Love this part of the response. We're shown USB ports, an HDMI port, an RJ45 port, and a normal power port. Every single one of those could be handled by a modified Raspberry Pi. None of those ports necessarily suggest modern specs either since even the newest one was available as far back as 2003 (HDMI for anyone not aware).

 

Yeah, the only reason I think it's not a Pi or a Tegra is because they specifically said "PC hardware."

 

Those are old style usb, not usbc. yea, nothing there saying "modern" hardware. Ouya+casemod. Besides doesn't modern mean "no cables"?
Bah... $10 says the "innovation" it brings will be the brain fart of some MBA. All you can eat subscription or ad driven or some other nonsense.

 

I want to like this thing. I really do. And while I don't have an issue with the design itself (it's actually a nice combination of throwback and "modern", especially the wooden one), it does come off as cheap, underpowered, and Ouya-ish. The red one, in particular, seems like it's so light it'd slide around on your entertainment center if the cats bumped up against the cords.

I think for the Ataribox to succeed, they need to nail their marketing. Obviously with the NES Classic doing so well, there's a market for retro emu consoles. With how much interest Ouya's Kickstarter generated, there seems to be a market for homebrew consoles as well. But trying to nail both those markets at once is a big plate that would be tough to balance. It's gotta be powerful enough to satisfy the homebrew devs, but cheap enough to be an impulse buy for the retro crowd.

It'd be better, in my opinion, to focus on one of those markets. And since I personally like the idea of playing retro games more than I actually enjoy doing it, I'm hoping for a homebrew console, but not expecting to see anything worth my time and money.

 

Why would a bunch of hardcore gamers buy a dramatically underpowered PC

 

The digital mock-ups and suggested crowdfunding does make me a little worried. When you take that direction with it, it does make it seem like more of an OUYA-scenario. That could still work, especially considering the Atari branding. But we need to hear more about this, specifically the kind of development they are planning on supporting. If it ends up being just an Atari emulation box with some modern indie developer support, that is slightly worrying.

Is there really enough of a market to support a device like that? Anyone with enough technical proficiency can make something comparable out of a readily available micro-computer. And how much nostalgia is there really going to be for the Atari line, and its games? While I am heavily influenced by nostalgia for older games, much of my personal gaming stems from the 80s, not the 70s. So the 2600 and subsequent Atari efforts don't figure very heavily into my gaming memories. A device like this can't trade purely on nostalgia, especially with the incredibly low hardware requirements for Atari emulation. (even lower than NES requirements, you could store the majority of 2600 games on a 3 1/2 floppy disk)

What it would ultimately come down to is some manner of branding + development push. It would also require strong community support. (to keep people coming back) I don't know if whoever is running this thing has the chops for that.

 

Or, you know, I've seen this garbage before in the form of the Ouya. And the Gamestick. And MOJO. And dozens of other pieces of crap that came out in the microconsole boom of 2013-2014. This is all of those all over again with Atari branding on it, and Atari's name hasn't carried any clout for decades. This isn't just a less powerful computer than mine, it's a less powerful computer than you can get for $300 at a Walmart. In laptop form. PC hardware doesn't scale down well at all and to add to that, Atari isn't even Atari. They're the shambling corpse of Infogrames wearing Atari's skin.

Hardcore gamers won't want it because it's an underpowered piece of trash. Midcore gamers won't want it because it's not going to have a decent library of games and will probably just ship with a bunch of emulated S*** you can get on the Atari Flashback consoles. Casual gamers won't even know it exists and if they did know they wouldn't care because they have phones. Maybe instead of insulting people you should actually look at the people who run Atari now and look at the history and performance of similar products.

Edit:

I did some quick calculations based on the size of the USB ports and got some rough dimensions of the renders they put out. It's about 12 inches long by 5.3 inches wide by 1.2 inches tall. The numbers may be slightly off due to the pixel error possibility of the photoshop measuring tool. If this thing is based on PC hardware, then the entire thing is probably going to have to be passively cooled because I don't see any heat vents on that thing. This means that the processor and GPU are going to be super low power which is fine for emulating things like the 7800 and probably even the Jaguar and Lynx, but it's going to be a complete mess for modern software development.

There's plenty to take away from these designs if you look and pay attention.

 

This is a rendering of a box with an Atari logo. It has USB and HDMI. It doesn't fit in the next-gen or even the high end spaces. Atari hasn't made any games in like 30 years.

I'm not excited.

 

"Modern" and "new" aren't necessarily the same, and in the context of refreshing a product line from 1978 I think that something introduced in 2003, still in widespread use today, and updated a bunch of times along the way is "modern" enough.

I care far less about what hardware is in it than I do about audience size and composition, how the marketplace works, and stuff like that. If the average mobile phone can run compelling games then I'm reasonably confident that a dedicated box with an AC plug will be just fine in that regard.

 

A big logo that says "We are the company that have failed over and over to be successful".

How is that any worse than being a raging fanboy who believes their favorite company can do no wrong? We have been shown absolutely nothing yet that gives the Atari Box any chance to succeed whatsoever yet here you are claiming the device cannot fail.

You need to step back and look at this more objectively. Unless it has exclusives no one will waste their time purchasing a device to run games they can already run on their desktop, laptop, phones, consoles, etc.

No one will purchase it solely for media center purposes when they can already purchase the Amazon Fire TV (a $40 device that is listed as Amazon's Best Seller in Electronics) that already handles the job.

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Fire-...-Remote-Streaming-Media-Player/dp/B00ZV9RDKK/

 

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/252567-ataris-new-ataribox-will-play-classic-current-games

Retro console or micro console?

 

"Retro and micro aren't mutually exclusive" console.
Also it actually looks huge.
I half expect top to open and see a keyboard.

 

More and more this thing does NOT look like an attempt to build a competing console against the big three, but some weird steam box or Ouya or something like that; so all that chat I got was just wet dreams and wishful speculation after all.

A shame though, I rather like the idea and was looking forward to Atari stepping up with the big three and show them how it's done old school.

Imagine it...Atari wood trimmed consoles with the cartridges in colorful boxes, rabid commercials of crazy people getting excited by on screen game play of Atari games.

 

Making an inexpensive micro-console has merit. But an effort like that has to be far more than just the hardware. In fact, the hardware is the least important aspect. Reasonable games can be run on almost anything these days. I got a Unity APK running on a Raspberry Pi 3 last night. The hardware doesn't particularly matter. Cram enough processing into a small, tasteful box, make sure you have some nice convenience features like wifi and built-in Bluetooth, and you're done. SD cards are fine for extended storage, and USB covers just about any other charging or input needs.

What really has me worried is that we don't have any confirmation on whether this current iteration of Atari has what it takes to make the other, more important, elements work. They need a solid on-line community. They need a vibrant development scene. They need support for middleware. They need to get people excited to make and deploy games on this box they're making. That's what we need to see, and at the moment all of that is just an enormous question mark. This is what caused projects like the OUYA to fizzle out. The hardware for the OUYA was fine, it worked great. But the community support wasn't there, and the sales model was broken, and inflexible.

 

I am not sure Atari can show anybody how things are done old school. Is there anybody left at Atari from the original company?

At best, the Atari Box is merely a PR stunt to gauge enthusiasm for the brand. Maybe the current owners at Atari can hype it enough to get a bigger company to buy Atari without anybody actually developing an Atari Box.

 

Nope. Like I've mentioned before, Atari nowadays is just the shambling remains of Infogrames wearing Atari's skin. I say "shambling remains" because even Infogrames is barely what Infogrames was originally, having sold off Atari Europe and a good portion of their more successful IPs like 15 years ago. They basically survive as a mid-tier publisher while periodically putting out games that are... poor, to say the least.

 

On the same thought....if people want it they will buy it crap or not. I've personally bought a ton of junk in my life as I'm sure most have. My boss buys hundreds of tons of chicken crap every year.

 

It looks cool enough. Very interested in their grand plan and pricing. The RetroVGS tried a similar thing not that long back but their crazy high price (and a few other things such as it not actually existing lol) basically killed it. But they had enough people willing to spend to generate over $50k or so the first day. There are only so many people willing to throw out $400+ on such a thing though.

I hope it succeeds. If they can somehow get all of the retro crowd behind it then it would. But sadly just as there are Windows vs Linus vs MAC fanatics, Unity vs UE fanatics there are still Spectrum vs C64 vs NES vs whatever fanatics as well. Although I think many of them have loosened up and started appreciating all retro systems in general to a degree.

Rambled again... anyway some real info would be good.

 

They were only charging $299 according to the Indiegogo campaign. For a console that was built around the concept of reprogramming an FPGA that isn't very expensive. Equivalently specced FPGA dev kits tend to be priced around the same amount.

https://joelw.id.au/FPGA/CheapFPGADevelopmentBoards

Complete lack of a prototype in every demonstration was the real killer for the platform. We may see a similar situation with Atari too as the pictures we're being shown are basic renders and with a design that just about anyone could come up with on their own.