Your Dream Does Not Have to Die aka The Power of Community

Because if you fry & slice it with mods, you can get decent chips!

True. Check out any game on steam. There is usually some discussion going on.

 

The point is to support each other, motivate each other, and get a little visibility in the process. That is all.

Oddly enough, there are people who like other people who are generous and supportive. That alone can help us. I often post games that I think are unique and special on my regular Facebook page, the one with all the mom's and grown ups and relatives...and the response is most often very positive, even from my non-gamer friends. This is especially true if I know something about the developer..maybe they are old old colleague or a personal friend.

While that may not up sales, there have been a few games, mostly kid games,that my friends did buy for their kids because of my post. I see my friends do that as well...just recently, someone posted an educational software product that several mom's are now interested in.

Coming from a friend, someone they know, it means more.

 

A long time ago, i had this little initiative of promoting other games i found interesting on youtube that deserved more recognition, so i made a Unity Collection playlist on Youtube and i usually added one game per week to that collection. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDgvxGQhCEGDJviakeJmDAvEmLRW1R7kF
At the time i think i had something like 8k subs on Youtube and around 4k on facebook and i was able to get around 1-3k people to get to see those games and a lot of them would like it and follow that game, so i think cross-promotion is something that can help out the very small but good looking projects get more recognition and fans.
Of course, if you can make a quality game and promote it yourself, you will see a lot of people coming to see it.

That collection kind of died out, since it was a long time ago and there weren't that many awesome small projects like there are now. But i think i was able to help out a few small projects like my own

EDIT:
A lot of the videos on there had around 100-1000 views.

 

I wanted to add....a game about potatoes when turnips are the in thing is the EXACT reason why this sort of coop should exist. There are plenty of people who don't want the in-thing, but prefer potatoes. Those people can be hard to reach.

Case in point, I read online a bunch of posts in many many different game forums about how "twitch" combat in MMO's and SP games have become the "in-thing". But many of those posts were from people, 40+, who wanted games without "twitch" combat. They didn't like competing with kids with fast reflexes, or they had carpal tunnel, or they wanted a more relaxed game style.

Who listens to them? Certainly not the AAA companies or the indie gamers who want to make the "in-thing" to make lots of money.

So a game comes out made by an indie team without twitch combat? On Steam it will be lost in the shuffle, no one will notice. It might be a great game, but it isn't the in-thing.

Does that mean it does not deserve a chance? If I were to review that game and present it to my readers, it might actually gather some new customers. My readers are not necessarily into twitch gaming. They are older, part of a niche of gamers that is still large, but not the "in-thing".

Keep catering to the in-crowd and games will become more and more narrow.

 

Cool idea you got there @GarBenjamin ,

I'm in, I have a small Youtube channel, consist around 850-ish subs, and around a total of 65k views from all 9 videos I've uploaded (it is tutorials mostly), also a Twitter and Facebook. It is not much though

 

Because a potato is good no matter who produced it but the way the game market works one must be rich to profit off raising potatoes. So if you're going to bring an business sense to the potato market as an indie then you know one must do something with the potato different from the mass market to make money off it, such as raising it organically. Will I pay a premium for a potato an indy bought from the mass market and rebranded to support an indie? No. Will I buy a potato from an indy that they raised organically themselves at a higher price then regular potatoes? Yes, if I want potatoes.

Reviewing a game that you hate implies that you are lying and giving a good review for a bad game? If the content is objectable to you decline to review it. Distinguish between the content and the game play when using words like bad.

Reviewing a game that you don't enjoy playing (= bad) and giving it a good review (an example of generic positive reviews that must be taken with a grain of salt: I love this game. This game is addicting) is useless and harmful at this level. Say why you don't enjoy paying the game. You don't become excited enough? Suspenseful enough? Laugh enough? Say why you enjoy the game. We should want an honest civil review for the members with which to improve their games and from that increase in quality should come demand for their games.

 

Is it bad that I'm making potato simulator 2016?

The way I see it, simply put, if you like a game, it's good to help get it some publicity, if you don't like it, no need to give a toss about it.

Mind you literally everyone here has been saying that but with big scary words.

 

Not always true. We only think that because the games we notice that are genuinely good are, well, noticed.

 

This twitch gaming - game I/O controllers and human reflexes don't work fast enough to truthfully support that. This is a case of marketers grossly exaggerating the difference in reflexes between young people and older people to appeal to the younger folks vanity because they perceive younger folk as more naive, more vain, and more easily persuaded to do the trendy thing. That is marketing deception.

They did the same thing with high frequency sounds a few years back but in fact most people that said they could hear the higher frequencies could not.

 

As an older person, my fingers cannot compete with my kids in any sort of twitch gaming. And from what I read, other people feel the same way. I think we know how our fingers work. lol

So..maybe it is a marketing deception, but quite honestly, years of typing, carpal tunnel, arthritis, all those fun things we get as we age all do make a difference.

I hate twitch with a passion and have had to toss a number of sequels to my favorite games because of it. Makes me sad. But the pain isn't worth it.

 

Well carpal tunnel is not a disease of age but of repetitive injury. I've known people in their teens and twenties with that disease. There is a physical slow down there is no doubt about it but is mostly due to the cumulative effects of sedentary lifestyle.

What twitch play is actually is a further reduction in how the player must interact with the game environment which let's face it, reduces time to market and development costs if the marketers' appealing to the buyers' vanity works. So you're not being faster you've simply reduced the area you are focusing in and eliminated story line.

 

Goat, yes, young people get it. But years and years of typing will give it to you as well which means as you get older, your chances are higher. Not only that, but it is connected to autoimmune issues such as thyroid and fibromyalgia which again, show up more often in over 40. It is why I now have to ask my son to open jars for me.

 

Probably best not to get mixed up with actively avoiding downloading or purchasing a S***ty looking game with poor presentation vs sales.

Bad games do get noticed - quite often - they just don't get purchased. People are too quick to lay the blame at the door of discovery when sales are non existent.

 

Re twitch gaming, I still compete fine and usually win more than half of what I try, which is an average for me. I think experience counts for a lot. Many twitch games aren't really twitch games. They're called twitch because the player doesn't have the brains or experience to respond before it's a problem, only when it is a problem.

To further illustrate twitch being down to the gamer and not necessarily the game I point out starcraft. This is not a twitch game. RTS games aren't twitch. But played in asia, it becomes a twitch game at a sufficiently high enough level.

 

I'm glad I never gamed too much and always typed with one finger then.

This fibromyalgia thing I'd never heard of till recently but I've had similar symptoms since childhood. I'm not a hypochondriac just allergy sensitive. I also have light headedness and dizziness and have fainted several times and my friend said she has vasovagal episodes and so I look to see what that is and it's what I have. I've identified the cause of the fainting as mitral valve prolapse. The symptoms similar to fibromyalgia in me is brought on in myself by the seasonal changes from summer to autumn or less so, winter to spring. It seems it's weather and allergen related and really my only effective treatment has been exercise. None of the medical recommendations work. Since I have lived in the deep south and the far north I know that living in the far north reduces symptoms and therefore I think it's mostly allergen induced. The thyroid hasn't been a problem but as I'm not a woman I don't loose all the minerals they do. Woman definitely need iodized salt and much more vegetables and fruits then men do because of our physical differences but that aspect is ignored and it's meat, meat, meat.

 

We are way off topic. I have friends who have it, do not myself but can relate. Hope you feel better soon. Go see a doctor, an arthritis specialist. They seem to be the most sympathetic.

 

Good for you! I would always lose. lol

By the way, another reason people complain about twitch in RPG's is because it takes away from the entire need for character development and skills. It becomes player skills, not character skills. I have mentioned this before, but in the old style games, a skinny old great grandmother could play a battle weary knight who was a whiz with his sword. All that mattered was the way she developed her character. It was about character development, not the player's experience smashing the buttons.

But now many new games are button smashing, whether they are "really" twitch or not, they require, as you said, experience. The more experience a player has smashing buttons, the better they are.

So...when the sequel comes out, great grandmother's knight has a much more difficult time, because instead of the character development mattering, and how she acquires her character's skills, the game becomes about how well SHE, the woman behind the keyboard acquires skills...namely button mashing.

There are a lot of people who don't like that, who are old fashioned RPG players. If you don't believe me, go look. I found them on accident while researching something else.

So...a good game that has old fashioned combat might be considered bad by those who want the "in-thing". But good by those who do not. However, the "in-thing" will almost always be at the top of the list.

Sometimes, it is okay to develop for the niche and as the games being developed for the niche become fewer and fewer, it is even a good idea sometimes. So...again, cross promoting games that might go after the same niche is not a bad idea either.

 

Well that's not niche. It's like calling world of warcraft niche, it's probably more common than all the FPS games combined in terms of player footfall.

 

A niche is a distinct segment of a market. I do not buy or play games with twitch or button mashing combat. Therefore, I fit into the niche, the segment of a market, that does not play games with twitch or button mashing combat.

According to many people in this niche, there are fewer and fewer games that do not use twitch combat, therefore, it will become more scarce. If you look at the number of games on Steam released over the last year or two, what is the ratio of button mashing RPG's to tab targetting?

So even if you define niche differently, as a small group, which really isn't the definition, then it very well could be a niche in the future via your definition.

 

I don't have arthritis, I have allergies and against both there are only expensive and ineffective treatments. I figured out as a child my aches were allergies so that's what I told the doctor and of course they didn't offer medication against non-life threatening seasonal childhood allergies. Also off topic but did you know the best treatment against poison ivy besides washing the oil off immediately after exposure is Benadryl capsules taken as directed? Maybe I'll try them in allergy season too. It's an easy test and a seasonal OTC medicine. Honestly until I actually read what fibromyalgia I just scoffed at it as an invented disease with which the pharma and medical businesses could further enrich themselves but after reading what it was I'm like oops, I've had these symptoms seasonally since childhood. The best solution of course is to move back to environments my genetics were adapted to over the millennia and longer but that's not practical.

So back on topic. When this thread runs a couple of days GarBenjy can created the coop guidelines, post them, and then the next post join with by typing @User, e.g. @goat in a message and nothing else.

Do we want to try to do all the threads reviews in this thread or use skype or what? Sometimes it would be nice if Unity Forum SW would let us create community sub-forums with organized TOC sortable by activity level (because many would be created and abandoned probably).

 

Wow a good amount of activity here since last night. Hopefully everyone realizes I was throwing things out off the top of my head regarding cross promoting in games and so forth. I see it as a viable option and not a necessity. The central idea is, as many have mentioned, just to do some focused cross promotional efforts.

I just threw this out as something that is actionable. Meaning something real that can easily be put into action. Theories and such are fine and at the end of the day I've always preferred something simple that I can actually put into use immediately.

On game quality and so forth I don't have any real views on that. In my mind one game is basically as good as another unless there are some obvious bugs in it. Obviously people will try to make good games. Or even great games. I just am not sure that really matters much though. It seems to me there are likely many great games that nobody but the author knows about. Of course, we can't do anything about them unless the game happens to be developed by one of the people agreeing to come together in a sort of coalition.

Any people here can form such groups on their own as they please. I wasn't really thinking of there being a formal process and creation of such a thing based on my post. Seeing the interest though I guess I could help to get such a thing going.

Remember though I am a hobbyist and actually am developing more in tools other than Unity than I am in Unity right now. I have no ambition to make a living or even a second paycheck from game development. I was just trying to find a solution to the problem I see the people who do "have the dream" are dealing with.

So keep that in mind if you want me to try to drive things organize things or whatever. I'd be doing it as I do most everything in my life... as an experiment. Just to see what would happen. I think one of my main hobbies is just doing experiments. lol

At the same time I do have a lot of passion for game dev. Currently I am working on a little 2D top down action rpg sort of like gauntlet with a bit more depth. Just a simple game. And I have several other game projects in various states that I will probably revisit at some point such as a platform game, a shmup and a sort of epic action adventure. All are just for fun not to pay the bills. No deadlines. I am a hobbyist.

Just wanted to throw that out there in case people preferred someone doing this seriously as a job be the one who kind of organizes and leads things.

 

Okay, to help get things started I created the following simple template that can be used, or at least used as a starting point, to collect information from those people interested in collaborating in this initiative.

Please respond with the following information...

Your Unity forum name:

Where do you have a "presence"?
[ ] Blog / Website with gamer visitors
[ ] Mobile games in app stores
[ ] Twitter with gamer followers
[ ] Facebook with gamer followers
[ ] YouTube with gamer followers
[ ] Game Jams such as Ludum Dare
[ ] Gaming forums
[ ] Other non game related forums (please specify)
[ ] Games available at desktop Game stores (places such as Steam)
[ ] Email list of gamer subscribers
[ ] Email list of game dev subscribers
[ ] Other ... please specify

The game, profile or website page you would like promoted:

A short description of your game, profile or website page.

----------------------

Feel free to edit as you all see fit.

 

Well then let me step up and say I have no web site or no youtube but PM me and I'll play your game if it's less than 512MB and I can test it for free. At least if you ask then I know you are actively seeking to improve your game.

I can test no more than 2 games a week.

At potentially 108 games a year I can't keep them inventoried after I play them, well if I really like a game enough to play regularly I would keep it inventoried.

When you ask me to test keep in mind I have 4 year old HP laptop with Intel HD Graphics 3000 running Windows 10. I have an HP Stream 7 running Windows 10, I have a Acer Iconia Tab 8 running Android 4.4.2, I have a Nextbook 7 running Android 4.4.2. I even still have an iPod Touch 4th Gen running iOS 6.1.3. Testing on one device will be sufficient for game play so ask on the device you don't have HW for but want to target.

I get nothing for testing except essentially a stranger for the most part trying out your game. The person that agrees in this thread to play and rate a game then reports the results back to the persons that asked to have a game played. The persons for the game being played can then report all the results of the game players / game testers to BoredMormon if they desire and do another iteration of improvements.

And if it's rated Everyone and bug free I will tryout this in-game ad-kiosk. I have to restrict that ad-kiosk thing Everyone because that is my preferred style game not because I'm targeting a specific demographic. Also, for legal reasons too. Not that I have any reach or fan base, this is goat here but it would be interesting next year if anyone ever downloaded a game in such an ad kiosk.

I have no restrictions on the genre or number of games I'll put in my 'ad-kiosk'. Just that I played them, they were bug free in my limited testing (30 - 60 minutes), and rated Everyone. Is it more effective that a million dollar ad buy? Of course not. Is it a small original way for hobbyists and amateurs to be original in advertising and increase their reach without spending large sums of money for advertising? Yes. It's free because I don't have much reach but should I publish a game that became very popular it would effect the reach of the games in the ad-kiosk for free. You are 'hedging yours bets' so to speak in an economically sensible way. One still needs a game to become popular with a wide reaching social network and from there it's basically word of month. If you want my to put your Everyone rated game in an ad-kiosk then you need to ask specifically in addition testing your game.

So in essence we are doing what other forum subtopics have already organized but a few of us have volunteered to try and come up with original approaches to game testing, reviewing, and advertising.

 

@goat that is an excellent thing I completely overlooked. The ability to get more testing done on various hardware. Great thinking! Certainly another advantage to such a coalition. I have a Galaxy 4 Android cell, a Next Android tablet, a 8 year old Windows Vista laptop and my new high end GTX 980 or whatever it is Windows 8.1 laptop.

 

Your Unity forum name: goat

Where do you have a "presence"?
[ ] Blog / Website with gamer visitors
[x] Mobile games in app stores : Small presence on Android OS.
[ ] Twitter with gamer followers
[ ] Facebook with gamer followers
[ ] YouTube with gamer followers
[ ] Game Jams such as Ludum Dare
[x] Gaming forums - Unity
[ ] Other non game related forums (please specify)
[x] Games available at desktop Game stores (places such as Steam) Small presence on PC.
[ ] Email list of gamer subscribers
[ ] Email list of game dev subscribers

[x] Test HW -

a) PC : Intel i5-2520/Intel HD Graphics 3000/8 GB/1920x1080/Windows 10

b) iPod Touch 4th Gen: Apple A4/PowerVR SGX535/512 MB/960x640/iOS 6.1.6

c) Acer Iconia Tab 8 : Intel Atom Quad-Core Z3735/Intel HD Graphics/2 GB/1920x1200/Android 4.4.2

d) Nextbook 7 : Quad-Core ARM Cortex A7/MediaTek MT8127/1 GB/1024x600/Android 4.4.2

e) HP Stream 7 : Intel Atom Z3735F/Intel HD Graphics/1 GB/1280x800/Windows 10

All the HW / SW above I believe will do the equivalent of DirectX 10.1 or OpenGL ES 3.0.

[ ] Other ... please specify

The game, profile or website page you would like promoted: I am currently not promoting any game of mine but will take PMs to test, review, and do a Q&A for your games. 2 per week total limit.

If asked and the game is rated Everyone and passed light 30 - 60 minute testing, I would include in a free ad-kiosk flyer for your game in my game. A quick google search shows that Zynga is doing recently just that for preferred 3rd party partners. i.e. paid placement directly in popular Zynga games is their own 'ad network'. Companies have promoted their own games within their games for a long time, it's economic sense. My ad-kiosks would always be free and always require I play the game and it be bug free so it's limited there in scope. Of course no one's going to download a game for the ad-kiosks but if I get lucky with a game of my own then built in ad reach for free and always for free for your apps or games. Of course you'd get to review how the ad flyer for you game(s) was presented in the game(s) I included it in.


A short description of your game, profile or website page:

My game is a re-skinned infinite runner made almost 100% from Unity 4.6, Assets in the Asset Store, and a couple of extremely altered CC0 textures. Distribution is less than 50. Downloads less than 50. I need to integrate Unity Analytics to improve game play as it's likely only played by a few folks occasionally. This is the game I want to try an ad kiosk in when I create an original UI for and re-do the infinite runner animations to be more fitting for the game in the next 2 months. I plan on adding levels to that game after those two months. It a game in progress. I have no ad budget. It's a hobby really but that means I can help others within reason with no competitive needs or monetary pressures.

 

You put only the effect/result.

Peoples go after money more that we may think. Sad but true. That's the reason why all that happen. ANY thing that made money was invaded. Some one said something about Youtubers, true.. now everybody is a Youtuber!) Let's look around more .. youtube=spam, music=spam, movies=spam, games=spam, bloggers=spam. Name anything that make money and is not touch so much.

I swear if a new industry will show up and they will need and pay for simple rocks, everybody will dump Youtube and gamedev, and website, and so on and will collect rocks.

Is supersaturated already. You mentioned Twitter.. I get in 1 hour probable more that a few hundreds of tweets with new games and promotions. Is way to much spam already.

 

That is true and I get that completely. I agree despite what most folks say (passion, hobby, etc) the reality is they want money and this seems like a fun way with better odds than playing the lottery. And yes I think when the next big thing comes along and we start reading about everyday janes and joes striking it rich a lot of these super passionate game devs will go off running as fast as they can. lol

Until that happens though the current reality is what it is. So all people can do is try to leverage their assets and others as much as possible. Success rarely comes to those working in complete isolation. Networking and so forth makes a huge difference. So this thread is just presenting a way for any game devs to be able to help each other achieve a little more success than they can on their own. I think it could turn into something pretty cool.

 

@GarBenjamin I may join your initiative. I say "I may" and not "I will" because, I am not sure if helps anyone of us. If we gather 10-20 peoples can be awesome, only for achievement. 10-20 votes on Steam Powered will change nothing. So basically, Is a nice initiative, but I am not sure how much will help. Also, how you make the distinction between true hobbysts and money runners?

 

Well the direct support will have a tiny effect on its own. The collateral effect from the additional market reach (someone hears about your game on someone else's website or twitter or YouTube) adds a little more benefit. And then there is just the momentum factor where the more people mentioning something the more inportant it seems so others may mention it as well. I'd see it all as just an experiment. Do I know how much of a difference it will make? No. I think it would be interesting to find out.

It's not really my thing other than posting about it. I am sure others have considered it before and just never done anything with it for one reason or another. I am willing to try to get the ball rolling though. Heck I am silly enough I might even do some paid promotional activities just for the heck of it. As long as I am having fun I am all for it. Life is too short to not be having fun.

Yeah there is no quick n easy way to see who is a true hobbyist and who is in it mainly for the money. At the same time I definitely have my own thoughts about certain people and games when I see them. And when I see a new person who is more focused on which ad networks to use than anything else I personally think that carries a pretty strong message which camp they are in.

 

Here's an idea we could try. I'll create a facebook group where indie game developers can join. The goal would be to mutually promote each others games through facebook and twitter.

Group Requirements
Owns a facebook page and twitter account for their game or company.
Has at least 200 likes or 200 followers on their page.
Game runs on PC

This will work best as a small group to start off with (about 20-30 developers) so it does not take forever to go through all of the games. Every tuesday and friday each developer will have an event on their social networks called " tuesday indie spotlight" or "friday indie focus". That shares one of the groups developers game. Once everyone's games have been shared, we will go through the list again.


This is a very simple approach, and its not perfect but its an idea. What are your thoughts?

 

@roger0 I definitely like you taking the inititative to do that with FB and Twitter. @goat already described what he is willing to do with his ad kiosk idea. So this is 3 promotional strategies covered so far. A good start I think.

I'll definitely mention stuff on Twitter and on my website. And the FB group sounds like it would be good for doing some promotional tests on. Maybe not FB ads because in my previous tests of FB ads they kind of sucked. When you have it set up and some content for people to check out I will look into some marketing opportunities to get the word out.

Over the last month I've started looking into sponsoring some of the smaller game jams out there in return for my GarsGames.com website to be listed. Basically you know where they have the list of sponsors to have something like Gar at www.GarsGames.com listed in exchange for me throwing out some cash for prizes and such.

Again for me this is all done for a hobby just having fun. However, I have mentioned before one day I will probably get into this as a way to make some additional income. For me that time is several years down the road though. So for now I am slowly building up a presence with that in mind.

So, perhaps you can list me as a sponsor on your FB group since I won't really have any game I am contributing to it at this time. I don't mind occasionally writing a review or providing other content for the group page. And I will do some promotional activities to draw attention to the FB group page.

To me this is more about just being a part of "something bigger" and helping people out and in turn it will also help me out in time over the long haul. The biggest difference I think is with me I am just in no hurry. I feel no pressing need to become a success in game development this month, this year or the year after and so on.

 

I think the 200 likes requirement is wrong. For a true amateur starting out it is like a millionaire's club requiring 200 likes.

It would be better to make the requirement a published game with an ESRB rating and having reviewed at least 2 games of the FB group member's games politely and honestly. And maybe as a group each member must review 2 games per month and posted those reviews both to the app's app store reviews and I'm not sure how on FB...create an album for each app? Album for each member and sub-albums for each app? Is that even possible on FB?

We are trying to create a community that contributes and 200 likes can be bought. Reviews can't be bought.

 

I am sure you can. I am getting some offers for video reviews for $100.. One of them even said if I don't accept the paid review, he will do one free and telling everybody the "product" sux x 10. Some peoples really gone so far here, I mean, they are even "brave" enough to try to intimidate you to pay for a review.

 

The idea behind it was for indie games to get more attention and likes on their page. The 200 requirement is a way to increase the chances of the group being more effective. So they will have a bigger influence on each other.

My idea is probably best for games still in development and are trying to get more hype for their game.

 

This is the kind of thing that I hate about this becoming so money focused. Dreams of money bring all of the arseholes out. Yes that is crude and it is the truth. Freaking low lifes do anything they can think of to make a dollar including attempting to blackmail devs the way you described. It is things like this that burn me out on all of the obsession with money. If I had more time it would be fun to create a Wall of Shame website and promote it collecting the names and YT channels of such people. That would be kind of fulfilling in some small way. But better still to focus on positive stuff helping people the way we are discussing.

 

I realize the if each coop member had 200 followers or customers or likes that means a bigger social network but if our requirement is size and not useful functionality it's not likely to be of help to the members. It's a long thread so I understand you didn't read it all but many of those that came through don't have 200 likes or even near it and don't want to buy those likes.

The requirement of having published a game, created a FB page for the game/business, gotten an ESRB rating, and two game reviews for FB group members each month is enough I think. And there is the problem of retiring members that didn't do the 2 reviews per month or have stopped game development as a hobby.

If the coop buys ads and doesn't require reviews by members of each others games functionally it's just a listing with no incentive to visit the FB group. Join the group, buy 200 likes, and hope someone gets lucky. It's mostly not economically helpful except to the FB owners.

But if you create the group it's yours to manage as you please. I've been kicked out of FB groups by group managers for pointing out technical problems with businesses they constantly touted in FB groups and posts by members of the groups that were off-topic and meant to draw people to web sites with complete fake fabricated news.

 

Reviews dont really drive traffic or marketing though. The idea was to help developers purely on the marketing and PR aspect and not about testing and evaluating their game. If they buy 200 fake likes it would be misleading, although if they used facebook ads it would be fine because those are supposed to be real likes.

 

Well maybe we can re-think what you are wanting to do here, for a beginner with that has just published their 1st game, had it rated at the ESRB, and joined the coop and reviewed two games or did other things to help the group requiring 200 likes to join your FB group is exclusionary and practically requires them to spend their own money to buy ads unless the coop for some reason becomes successful enough that members were all pretty much granted they'd get 200 likes very quickly on joining the group.

However, if you state your group is simply a popularity contest among the games of the coop and 200 likes was your minimum threshold then your FB group begins to make sense but I'd raise the bar and set the threshold at 1000 or 10000.

 

I can see now that what I envisioned as a simple thing is more involved in practice.

The angle I was coming from originally is that people were already working on a game and they were also working on some marketing for that game. If they are not doing anything to market their own game then it doesn't make much sense for them to join a group that is specializing in promoting everyone's (in the group) games.

I do agree that 200 FB likes would be exclusionary in that for example I do not even have a FB group of any kind. I have a niche social website that has 1,300 members, a niche website that averages 150 unique visitors per day, another niche (games focused) website that averages 20 unique visitors per day. I haven't done much of anything with these sites in many years. They are leftovers from long ago when I was building websites making money online. The games website was the last I started shortly before getting out of it which is why I never built it up. I have my new GarsGames website that averages 50 unique visitors per day and I have my Twitter account with about 200 followers.

My original thinking was some people would have a presence on FB, others a presence on Twitter, others on YouTube, etc. By cross promoting each other these people would all instantly extend their market reach across the other areas they currently do not have a presence in. And people could cross promote each other inside their apps and on their websites as well.

I understand setting a requirement that each person is trying to market their game and has achieved some degree of success (however tiny) so they can contribute to the group instead of simply benefiting from it. I think it needs to be looked at on a more global level. Like maybe a person doesn't have a FB group with 200 likes on it but they have something else which is just as meaningful in terms of promotion.

In the end sure it will be exclusionary to some degree because a person will have needed to do something on their own. To have made some effort to promote their game. As long as they have a mobile game out there with 500 downloads, or a FB group with 200 likes or a YouTube with x subscribers (and an appropriate amount of views on their videos) or whatever I think is what really matters.

This doesn't mean the completely new people who have truly nothing at all cannot start their own group to work together starting from ground zero to cross promote each other. Like I said before, anyone can do this stuff on their own. Just teaming up and doing it. It does, however, make sense for people to team up who are at a similar level to each other in terms of market reach. Otherwise, you're likely to see a ton of "this is my first game ever and I have 2 downloads and don't know how to get more. Can you all promote it please!" requests coming in.

Of course, those numbers I threw out above are just pulled out of the air. Not to be taken literally. The people forming the group would need to set the standards for what they are looking for. Maybe that is 50 downloads for mobile apps or maybe it is 10. I don't know. This is why I think it only makes sense for there to be multiple groups. Groups of "new recruits" working together to get their first 10 downloads. Another group trying to get their first 1,000 downloads. And so on.

What do you all think about this?

 

Welcome to every single aspect of game development.

 

How about if we just all share Twitter and Facebook pages, in private if you wish. Then we can help by retweeting or reposting if we feel the game is worthwhile.

Like GarBenjamin, we do not have a game ready. We have been working on it for only a little longer than a year or so, with part time programmers so our game will be slow and steady. While it will be commercial someday, it will probably only pay for itself. We don't intend to do this as a living, at least not at this time.

I would still love to be involved. In my mind, this is about helping other indie game developers get noticed, regardless of the game, the genre or even if they are still in early development. Game development is a process, not just a finished product and promoting our process and our games is worthwhile, in my opinion.

If there is a place for me, even if just to cheer you guys on, I would like to be there. I love this community, and would like to give back in some way.

 

LOL! True. This can be simple though just like every other aspect of game development. It seems to me like we all just tend to make things harder than they need to be.

 

Yeah that is a good way to handle it really. If people want to test the waters and see how it works then just say so and let's do it. It really doesn't need to be some big complex thing. It should be fairly simple really! I mean how difficult is it to just say here is my website or game or whatever please consider promoting it and I will consider promoting yours on my Twitter, YouTube or whatever.

Keep it simple and not all of this unnecessary complexity of ratings and minimum Like counts and so forth.

 

Let's not make this into a logistical nightmare. Monitoring how many reviews people do on each other sounds too much like work. I'd prefer to keep it to a relatively casual group that simply talk about each others games in public places. I'd prefer to keep the main administration on the forums (with maybe a google doc with a list of games people would like talked about). No one is obligated to review or promote anything. But if someone helps you out on the forums, or you simply get along well with someone, do them a solid and take a little extra time to review their game or mention it to your social network.

Anyway, on to personal details:

Your Unity forum name: @BoredMormon

Where do you have a "presence"?
[X] Blog / Website with gamer visitors: Weak presence. http://blog.boredmormongames.com/
[X] Twitter with gamer followers: Weak presence. https://twitter.com/boredmormon
[X] YouTube with gamer followers: 750+ subscribers. Primarily Unity game devs, but these guys play games too. I have no problem branching this channel out to include game reviews. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfYhN-kdbe_WXmBAFoDOA9Q

The game, profile or website page you would like promoted: Pond Wars. http://boredmormon.itch.io/pond-wars

A short description of your game, profile or website page:

And yes, Pond Wars would be rated E for everyone.

There is another game coming, but promotion on that will wait until I have something playable.

 

Thanks @BoredMormon! Now see that was easy. I tweeted about your game and added it to my website. Hopefully you will get a few more gamers from this. It will remain on my website until you decide you'd rather have your next game featured there instead so any trickle traffic from this will be ongoing and slowly growing over time.

 

Why not just use that Unity slack group? If you like something someone posts on there, tweet or share it. Actually probably a better idea is a game engine agnostic slack group so you could include more indies.

 

With several Unity Skype groups already, I am not sure I could handle a Slack one. lol

 

I'm definitely open to any Indies not just those using Unity. In time I will likely extend the same to other forums I participate on. Right now I am mainly developing in Monkey X. A month or two from now it may be HaxeFlixel or back to Unity again. I have no idea. lol

Now that I actually have a game on the Other Games That I Like page on my website I have started updating my various forum signatures to point to it. Every little action like this will only do a tiny tiny bit but the idea is all of them together magnified across many people doing the same will make a difference.

 

@BoredMormon

I shared your blog on Twitter and Facebook. Good stuff in there!

 

Thanks. Now the pressure is on to write something. Maybe I'll write something in terms of community sharing. I've mentioned @GarBenjamin's site on my twitter feed.

Anyone from the conversation got any specific games that could use a YouTube video?