What is going on everyone, Forums are becoming.. Infested with Trolls

Sounds like a nice plan.

 

It seems like the most logical way to handle it. No barriers, and the community can moderate itself to a degree. So long as there are not more "trolls" and trouble makers than regular users the trouble makers could not force good posts to be marked negative as other members can vote up wrongfully voted down posts. This then secures good users from falling into false probation/temp ban with the help of other good users.

 

In the same vein : http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/74608-A-topic-ranking-system

Also, did you know that Unity hosted a site which had an awesome ranking/filtering system ? I'm talking about Unity Answers.
Seriously, it got every feature that would solve all the problems here : ranking, rewarding, post voting, tagging, Unity sponsoring, reputation points, etc ...

Would it be impossible to merge these mechanics with this forum ?

 

Very good im tired of that trolls.I cant even open topic without thinking of troll attack.And i noticed that most of helpful peoples are less online because of trolls and now i cant get help that i need!

 

I think a lot of problems could be avoided if users used the search feature more effectively. It would be nice to see an integration of http://answers.unity3d.com results in a forum search.

 

I do not think that that is a very good idea personally. I am sure people will abuse such a system, voting down people they do not like for whatever reason, rather then based on the content of the specific post. It will just open a new means for trolls to troll.





I think the only real way is to get community volunteers to moderate the boards. The moderators would be selected by the staff based on seniority, knowledge (forum knowledge mostly), personality (maturity and ability to be as unbiased as possible), the time to do it, and so on...

Also perhaps a paid community manager. This person would be hired by Unity to work in house. There sole purpose would be to mange the boards, moderate the moderators and boards in general, and other forum and community activities and the like. Somebody with experience in community and forum management.


Just my thoughts.

 

SSSHHHhhhhhsh! For cry'n out loud... Now Andeeee is going to start asking David H to get paid for this!!

Good thoughts otherwise though.

Cheers,

Galen

 

Bah, I didn't want to feed this thread because I don't think there's the need of making a big deal out of it, but it's already 3 pages, so... here's my opinion!! HAHA! it may be a little biased because I'm still on unity free, but I don't think doing the pro-only forum is necessary! Yes.. I've seen some childish behaviors, but they are quite a harmless minority I think... and besides making me do some 'meh', it doesn't ruin the 'forum experience' (for me), and I wish that was the case for you! Having said that, lets not forget our priority here! Which is making games! Right now as I'm typing this, i'm losing time I could be using doing unity tests! And so should YOU, haha, not that forums aren't an important feature for a gamedev tool! but it shouldn't draw so much attention, I don't see why a few silly threads should do any major damage to our ability to keep making games, I humbly ask that we see this matter as a minor concern, and avoid opening threads about it if possible, lets focus on what's important!

 

They can be serious, just not be loaded and can't easily shell out that amount of money. You can't say that just because someone can't afford something, they aren't serious about what they do.

 

Locking out a form is NOT a good idea. Sure it will cut out the trolls, but it will also cut out the legit users. Unity community is rather poor since most people are kids/teens.
What if I want to learn unity but then BAM I need to pay 10$ to access the forum? Wtf.
Unity is all about community. Limiting community is no longer "unite".
Seriously, you want to destroy what unity stands for.

 

A prepass given to yourself? I recall you having a swath of unruly names for unity devs.

BTH

 

I agree. People who want to bug and stir up S*** will pay to have their fun. Even children will ask their parents, or if they are a teen most do have access to a credit card or paypal, or some other form of payment. That wont make it immune.

A Pro License section on the forum (that is readable by everyone) is a better idea. It is no different than the "Collaboration" vs "Commercial Work" sections on the forum. Those who are willing to pay for work can post in the Commercial section and those who dont can post in the Collab section. Pro License users should have the same ability.

 

Why do you need a pro only forum if 90% of unity is the same in both pro and indie? Discussing indie stuff in pro forum seems silly to me.

 

It lacks one major point though: being usefull as a communication platform.
Its good as a FAQ system but out of my view sucks badly as a board replacement as its impossible to reasonably find "new threads" if you don't visit it very regularly due to the lack of hierarchy combined with non-hard set tags. I will likely never understand why user defined tag categorizing should be any better than fixed categories as long as everybody can create own tags etc making it a major mess of dublicate yet differently named tags.
It would only make sense if the system was limited to predefined tags aka the board cats we have and then I'm unsure how much use it still makes ...

The type of voting system I would like to see is one that:
1. Marks threads with bad ratings accordingly (very good -> greenish, neutral -> as now, very bad -> redish) so you see right away whats useless
2. Board search using these ratings for the sorting too
A voting system, that would be used to correspondingly mark the thread as "useless" would make a lot of sense and save time, as long as the board remains a board.

In addition the possibility to define tags on top of what we have (alike the GG boards) would be very good to mark them for "cross board relationships" so people no longer need to crosspost near dublicates

I think a pro only seperation would be unfair, but a paying - non paying to seperate the supporers and likely more professional users from the "I want to create a killer XX" kiddos.
But it wouldn't help in the end, as others already realized: the trolls will just buy a cheap mobile license to piss you again

 

what the f**k is a troll? I keep hearing this term, Im always in my workplace so I dont hop on forums all the time, only recently because Unity is the only forum that people are actually making games(ironically even more people who think they can get something for nothing, mainly youngsters), unlike most other game engine forums.

can somebody give me the correct term for "troll"? Im sorry but im not on the forums 24/7, im always busy.

 

ohhhhh wait i get it, a troll is someone who stays on forums 24/7 and comments every 5 minutes.

 

No a troll is someone who takes part in the board primarily to piss off other users in one or more ways (flaming, trash posting, off topic posting all the time, asking plain stupid RTFM questions, ... - in normal world you would call them idiots, morrons, aholes), so generally someone not interested in taking part in the community on the topic the community is about: being helpfull and developing 3D applications (I'm explicitely not saying games here cause I know many to interactivity in business and tutoring fields with it too)

 

Wikipedia to the rescue: Troll (Internet)

 

Actually, for a forum which is "thread/discussion based" (unlike Unity Answers, which is "question/answer"-based), I'd like to see some different mechanics. Voting up/down should certainly not change the order of postings (as it does in Unity Answers - which is perfect for that specific purpose). Instead, postings below a certain threshold (ideally user-configurable) should be hidden, just like it happens with people on the ignore list in this forum.

I think what MakerOfGames suggested really does it. The only thing I'd like to add is that it would be really nice to be able to set the threshold in your settings. That way, you could do something like "I only want to see postings that have at least +1". In other words: When someone posts a new thread, you don't even see it. However, the moment someone else says "good stuff", it appears for you.

Or you could say "ah, I'm in hardcore mode - allow everything up to -10" ;-)

 

I'm still in full support of subscription based.

1) Doesn't have to be expensive, $10/$20 for 12 months is a tiny amount for anyone, if it's still too much, they should get a job and stop playing on a computer.

2) There's so many methods of paying across the internet that no credit card, bank account, debit card etc. excuses don't fly anymore.

3) Banning would be more meaningful than it is right now.

4) Spambots would vanish from the subscription sections, completely, without question.

5) Trolls could still re-signup but at $10/$20 each time, would they really do that just to get banned again? Hey if they've got money to burn then all power to them.

6) The subscription section should still be readable by all (but no access to attachments), paid or not. But subscription gives you posting access and access to attachments.

7) No splitting of Unity Free and Pro versions. You have the same rights anyone else subscribing has.

8) A couple of none important sections could be reserved for none subscription users. It will get messy in there and not have realtime shadows, an incentive to subscribe, lol.


The amount UT would make from subscriptions can then be used to create many improvements around here, or pay for the UT Christmas party, where the rest of us get to laugh at embarrassing photo's of the staff getting blind drunk.. lol


I really can't see a downside of subscription. One time fee every year isn't going to hurt anyone.

 

Coming from someone with "Sorry for "trolling"" in their signature.

It's funny, because when I saw this thread, I thought of you.

 

No offense, but unity community doesn't know what a troll is.
I disagree with your opinion, you are a troll.

 

This thread is a troll.

 

A troll sappin mah tread

 

This wouldn't get my vote. I'd do it all subscription based. Now what happened to Jessy who had this wonderful idea? I think this really belongs into Wish List / Unity Feedback.

 

It would just be like, I dunno. A single general discussion section placed right at the bottom of the list (so we're not seeing it all the time), and useful if anyone is having problems getting access, they could post a thread and get help. It could have locked and stickied threads detailing the many ways to subscribe. It certainly couldn't be used for general Unity help itself (and we'd all have a right not to help anyone in there on those questions), but would be there to keep the few who wouldn't subscribe, happy(ish). It would get messy though (should be pruned every seven days perhaps).

 

I quite like this thread now, Its gone from a bit of a "moan" to a creative and useful thread! I am in full support of a 10$-20$ Per 12 Month fee. I think it would benefit everyone.

Off topic:

Anyone know any good 3d magazines? Im looking for something to subscribe to, See if I can expand my creativity a bit.

Thanks

-Charlie

 

I think post/user ratings would work fine. I think systems like Google indicate that you can filter things pretty well with automated heuristics. I generally like the sites that hide down-ranked posts from me by default. The more incentives users have to not be offensive/useless, the better.

I actually never look kindly on any company that charges for forum access though, I think that's a bad idea. If a new user, I'd instantly have a low opinion of Unity if they did that, and likely all it'd do is result in the creation of an unofficial forum where new people end up getting their first impressions. IMO, nobody else seems to need it, I see no reason why Unity'd be so special.

Google is likely worth $100 a year to the average consumer, but it doesn't mean that they should pay that, much less would. If they tried to charge pretty much anything, consumers would just migrate away.

 

@Dreamora/Jashan : yeah I understand, I was just wondering if it would be hard to technically migrate the Unity Answers's technology to this site, to ease the making of ideas that are put in this topic. Was more like a purely technical suggestion tbh, to adapt some UA tools to a forum's use, not really an implementation of all UA

 

Ok, that sounds reasonable. Got my vote ;-)

 

Now we just need to convince UT. Though how hard can it be to convince a company to like an idea that involves them getting free money, lol.

 

Howdy!

I'm not sure my desires are in-line with everyone else's. I want the forum to be expensive, so it is actually a source of income for UT, and we actually get something out of the purchase, other than a slightly elevated level of dedication. I haven't had reason or ability to shell out $3k for the Pro license yet, but that doesn't mean I don't have $10-$100 a month to spend, over a period of a few years. I used to have questions that a lot of people could answer.

Over the past couple of years, instead, I have had a fair amount of questions that have gone unanswered, leading to me not being able to improve at the pace I used to. I want to feel like when I ask something, that someone who makes Unity could answer, it will not just be a waste of time for me to throw it to the wind. I want other users to be able to come to a place that isn't filled with new threads that can be answered with a little bit of searching. I can't afford to pay for individualized support, yet, but I bet a hefty subscription, from a lot of people, could get a lot of people the answers they need.

 

I think $100 a month would result in even fewer questions being answered as very few would pay that, even I wouldn't be interested in it. Cheap $20 max a year is enough to clean up a good chunk of rubbish from the forum and doesn't keep anyone out of the loop except those intent on causing trouble (they're usually the same types who pirate, so forking over even $5 is hell for them, lol).

 

I'd do it, and if more money isn't going to get us better answers, then at least it's an improvement. I've seen how the forum can be, though, with active developers being around, and I'm betting we get a better forum, by throwing more money at the problem. Have some devs who are limited on how much time they can spend working on the source code, and forced to spend the rest of it here.

 

Actually not a bad idea.
If you buy pro, get 1 year for free or smth, and if you have indie, pay 20$ to access forum.
It weeds out trolls and gives UT some money. Win win

 

Let the forums get infested with trolls and kids is a good idea to users like us ask for a paid support service in the forums.

 

Agreed, but the lack of answers seems to me to be a whole other issue (problem here seems to be more about eliminating 'noise'). I think the idea that Unity isn't making enough money and that's why the questions aren't answered is erroneous, I've paid alot more than $10-$100, and still don't get answers.

While I agree this would keep little kids out, they will often be replaced with adults rightfully complaining that they still aren't getting the answers that they think they paid for. In the end, I still don't understand why the same heuristics that seem to work great elsewhere aren't the best solution here. I don't care if the internet is 99% useless crap as long as something is corralling me to the 1% I actually care about.

 

Heuristics can and do cause trouble, case in point. A number of anti-virus/spyware applications assuming Unity's webplayer and builds are malicious. I wouldn't trust a piece of code to decide if my post is spam or genuine.

 

You are talking about two totally different things, I'm not talking about an entirely automated method to identify spam, I'm talking about posts/posters being voted on by people (any system where people are supplying the data, really, but manual voting is most 'solid'). When people are evaluating something statistically relevant false positives pretty much don't happen.

 

Yea, paying for a forum would weed out trolls. But I doubt there are many people that will be willing to pay for a forum even though every other software that has a forum is free (as far as I know, I would be startled if I was wrong). There are definitely better ways to handle trolls than making people pay for a forum to get help that should be free.

 

I didn't suggest that UT isn't making enough money. Where did you pay your money? Currently, there is only one place to buy answers (lower right link). If you're just talking about buying Unity licenses, that doesn't count – Unity provides no guarantee that you'll be supporting anything you care about when you buy licenses. I suggest that the forum subscription be used solely to fund making the paid forum better.

 

If you think about it though, the only sections that are receiving any sort of "trolling" (God I hate that word... It just seems so wrong to me... meh) are the Gossip and sometimes the Collab sections...
If we charged an annual fee for access, then set aside a den for the trolls, why do it at all, as essentially, that's what we have now...

 

Like a tile of a bad Hammer House of Horror episode

"They Spread"

First there was none, then in the Gossip, then Collaboration, then Paid, Showcase etc.

 

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with all due respect, I haven't seen any trolls on the forums

 

@Jessy

You're a special case. You should have been singled out for increased information and support with regards your talents and interests with shaders and rendering in Unity, LONG ago.

 

I think the fairly simple solution to any trolling problem is to ignore it. As long as you are speaking out against trolls, you are contributing to the problem.

Regarding the idea of a subscriber forum: I have a great amount of respect for both Jessy and jashan (really), but I think paying for forum access is a rotten idea. I would be opposed to the idea of even a small fee(although I do find the idea of a small barrier appealing), for the simple reason that it's a community. I help other people out when I can, and hope that in return someone else can help me out when I need it. Why should I be paying UT for this privilege? And what if I'm not a professional game developer — what if I'm a hobbyist who just wants to take part of the community? Should I be forced to shell out $x per year? If it were a matter of needing funding to run the forum or something, then I could understand that, but as far as we know, that isn't an issue. Am I missing something here?

In short, I think that the people who have enough time to feed trolls get what they have coming, and those of us who are busy enough with our own stuff to bother with trolls don't care.
Although I'm more than willing to be proved wrong.

Best wishes,

-Lincoln Green

 

I'm with Borat.

 

I think that could be easily solved: There could be a "normal subscription" which is like $10 a year for all forums - except one. Then, you could have a UT support forum which costs "$10-$100 a month". If UT wants to be generous (and I'm sure they are), this forum would still be publicly visible (read only access). But only if you pay the monthly fee will you be able to post questions to that forum. Of course, the Unity devs would still be free to also participate in all other forums - but this special forum could be treated with priority; and since it's a high barrier, I'm pretty sure it could be a very high quality reference for pro-questions/answers. Also, I think it would be much more fun for the Unity devs who like to participate in the forums to have one forum where they can rely on questions being "high-quality and interesting" (and comparatively low traffic).

In other words: This particular forum would be a pro-pay-for-support forum. However, the answers would still be available to the community. That way, the only reason you'd contact UT for support directly and secretly would be for questions that involve NDA-stuff that you'd rather not have in the public.

I'd certainly use such a kind of "pro-pay-for-support" forum - but my limit would probably be around $20 / month or so because it's kind of rare I feel I really need that.

 

I still say paying for forum access is stupid. Why do I need to flush more of my money down the toilet due to idiots.

Just remove the idiots and let me keep my hard earned money.

 

This perennial suggestion that the forums be segregated seems like elitism to me, and it's at odds with Unity's goal of "Democratizing" game technology.