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UMA - Unity Multipurpose Avatar on the Asset Store!

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by FernandoRibeiro, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. FernandoRibeiro

    FernandoRibeiro

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    Just a test, but try rotating your mesh 180 degrees o y Axis while at Mecanim Tpose setup, before extracting T pose. It might be the case your character is facing the wrong direction. This is just a guess, but might be worth a try ;)
     
  2. tomi-trescak

    tomi-trescak

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    Fernando, i saw this advice before and I tried, but my hips turn red, saying that character is not at TPose. But I did not try to extract TPose afterwards. I'll try ASAP and let you know.
     
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  3. FernandoRibeiro

    FernandoRibeiro

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    Ok! If this don't solve the problem, check if something changes if you enable/disable IK at Animator controller.
    Also, is this happening with all animations you've tested?
    Did you used Mecanim automatic solution to find all bones for the mecanim avatar or you set them manually?
    Cheers
     
  4. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    ok so I tried what @ecurtz suggested regards setting meters in an empty file in 3ds and then importing UMA and then imported my Mixamo at 0.1 scale, but its still a big hairy scary mess (see attached screen shot)- not sure what to do, that doesn't look like something I should even try to work with?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. FernandoRibeiro

    FernandoRibeiro

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    As far I can tell (There has been a long time since I used Max), most of the mess is from the bones, they look to be scaled.
     
  6. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    I totally get the thing that Blender is free and open source and so fits in with the free philosophy of UMA.. I respect that and think its great, right and fair enough. But I just spent ages learning 3ds because its what *everyone* uses- the vast majority of the models on Turbosquid, etc everywhere are all 3ds based- I previously learnt C4d because that was the interface I preferred, but that was a waste of time really because as I say everyone uses 3ds/maya.

    So while its a valid point that making the UMA content pack Blender based is good because everyone can access the software for free, the problem with that is that people who have already spent time learning the 'industry standard' now have to learn how to use Blender and that is not something they can do for free, i.e. it costs people time and therefore money to learn even free software- and even if you want to pay someone to help you, most of them know the 'industry standard' rather than Blender...

    So in the interests of keeping UMA free it would be great if the content creation pack had stuff in it that was ready to be used in software people already knew and so they didn't have to spend time/money on learning software that they will most likely only ever use for the purposes of using the UMA content creation pack.

    It really would be a massive help if someone who knows how to use Blender and 3ds could export some 3ds ready base meshes where things aren't just bonkers. OK I am a noobie, I admit it, so I am sure I am displaying total ignorance here, but what I mean is something like the Mixamo fbx files, those files even for me, are easy to work with, things look 'right' and you can see whats going on.

    It would be just amazing if the UMA content pack had something similar :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  7. FernandoRibeiro

    FernandoRibeiro

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    This is a very old video, but might help you out ;)
     
  8. FernandoRibeiro

    FernandoRibeiro

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    Considering including files from different software (Max, Maya and so on) into the content creator pack, If there's anyone willing to provide the files, I can upload them to GIT in no time, let me know =)
     
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  9. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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  10. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    Oh, and also a T-Pose aswell as an A-Pose would also be helpful I think ;)
     
  11. ecurtz

    ecurtz

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    Are the mis-scaled bones from the UMA character or the Mixamo one? Did you try just importing the UMA character with the units set to meters and then saving out a copy? There are a ton of Google results about scaling skinned meshes in Max, sounds like Max is just a PoS at this particular task but there seem to be various workarounds.
     
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  12. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    The mis-scaled bones are from the UMA character... so I set the units to meters and imported the UMA as big as it can be (by setting it to millimeters in the FBX import which makes it 10x scale). If I just set it to be cm rather than mm then the bones are the correct size- but then I'd be getting nowhere, with the same miniscule model again... Attached is the model without any scaling and as you can see the bones are the correct size. But also you can see that the model is so tiny that as soon as I get anywhere near it faces disappear so its REALLY difficult to use (and in Max the grid you see in the background is never usually going so far off into the distance its usually just around the base of the model- that gives you an idea of how tiny it is...)

    I appreciate that there are workarounds, but as I said to Fernando, since Max is most likely the most common software that potential users will know, it would be great if there was a file in the pack that worked in MAX 'out of the box', in a user friendly way, that didn't require any jiggery-pokery...
     

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  13. hopeful

    hopeful

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    @davidosullivan - I don't have any experience with MAX, and just a little with Blender, but I found Blender to be pretty straightforward and uncomplicated on the scaling issue. I know that observation doesn't help you a lot right now, but if you ever decide you need to learn ANOTHER industry standard, Blender is always there waiting for you. Like a friend. Or a scary clown. ;)
     
  14. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    lol @hopeful :) - yeah I have every faith Blender is great, its just the prospect of learning it is just ominous to me right now, when I am learning MAX, Unity, C# etc. And I'm sure its straight forward once you get used to its way of doing things.

    Its like MAX, I think the interface is dire, there are like a million and one ways of doing the same thing but even so none of them are obvious, you have to learn them all... C4D is a quantum leap ahead in my opinion, if you know how to use Photoshop, Final Cut, After Effects, Word even then you will have a foot on the ladder with C4D but with MAX there is really nothing you already know that will give you any clue, you have to learn it. Same with Blender, I cant even work out where the move/rotate/scale tools are!

    Don't get me wrong I am not lazy and 100% understand learning is part of all our jobs and I love that, we live in thrilling and exciting times.

    But there is only so much one person can do and if that person can use tools they already know (which are themselves always progressing and need re-learning btw) so they can actually DO something, then that, to me, is a good thing...
     
  15. tomi-trescak

    tomi-trescak

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    Dears, I tried all of the stuff that you have proposed but the problem remains. Looks like those arms are exchanged, left for right .. could that be? Looks like left arm is playing right arms animation and vice versa. I tried all the animations and all behave the same. Applying the animation to the model from which the TPose was extracted, behaves correctly. Do you have any idea or take on this? The weird part is that the rest of the body plays well. I used automatic Mecanim mapping for bones. One observation is, that character is facing the opposite direction in the Mecanim mapping, but when I click on Enforce TPose, he rotates 180 degrees.

    I know I should one problem at a time, but do you also have an opinion on why my model is so separated? Look at the screenshot. The head is clearly torn from the body. So does torso from legs.

     

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    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  16. hopeful

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    @davidosullivan - I completely understand.

    However, if for some reason you should happen to change your mind about the scary clown (Blender), or if anyone else here is looking for a fairly quick, good guide on the basics - like how you navigate and select objects in Blender, and so on - I enjoyed watching a few videos in this series:

     
  17. hopeful

    hopeful

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    That's what I thought when I first looked at it. Have you clicked on the bones to see if indeed the bones are swapped?
     
  18. tomi-trescak

    tomi-trescak

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    Success! It was the swapped bones. But the only solution was to re-export it from Blender with Z-Forward. Then, the character appeared facing the same direction in Mecanim and sides were no longer swapped. Uff.

    The last, but no less problem are those broken seams. Do you guys know how can I make UMA to close those seams? Thanks a lot for your help!!! Almost there!!!! ;)
     
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  19. tomi-trescak

    tomi-trescak

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    Guys, I'm really sorry to spam this discussion board so much, but I feel like I'm almost there with my new race. I'm missing the final bits. Do you have any idea on following two things?:

    1. The seams of my model are disconnected as can be seen on the image above
    2. When I import my model, expression animations work, but the moment I rig it as "Humanoid", they stop working. So, when I add the UMA Expression Player and try to play those animations, nothing works. Thanks!
     
  20. MaxPower42

    MaxPower42

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    Hi, I am just having a first look at UMA and it looks very powerful indeed. Problem is, except for the demo scenes, I can't even seem to set it up properly :(

    I placed the UMA prefab in a new scene and then tried to place a character from the prefabs, but the UMA data script always says "UMA data not loaded". I know the whole thing is much more complex with its slots, DNA, races and stuff. But I just wanted to start with something as simple as possible and then learn the rest bit by bit.

    So can anyone tell me please how to get a single UMA avatar into a scene?

    And another question: Can you attach meshes (slots?) with additional bones (dynamic hair etc.) to the base meshes without creating a new race for it?

    Sorry if this has already been answered, but I didn't find anything about it and I can't be bothered to read 63 pages now...
     
  21. andrew210

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    @MaxPower42 - I strongly recommend the Secret Anorak video tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkDHFObfS19wRJ9vvaDTwCe-zRPv9jI25

    They're excellent, well presented and gives you an idea how to get to grips with the basics of UMA

    Are there any tutorials / bits of advice for exporting a new race from Blender into Unity? No matter what I've tried, somewhere the scaling gets set 100 times too small on something (for example UMA_Male_Rig is wrong scale for me), when back in Unity, even though in Blender its scale is set to 1.
     
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  22. ecurtz

    ecurtz

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    Yay! Good job. Of course the Z-Forward thing is in the export instructions in manual, which you read, right? ;)

    Are they correct on the original separated meshes before UMA? If so my next guess would be that the bone weights aren't identical, do the gaps vary if you adjust the DNA values?

    Are the values on the UMA Expression Player component updating as if it's trying to play? Are you using one of the example animation clips? I don't quite understand what you mean when you say it's working "when I import my model" - it's working on a non-UMA character? If so the format isn't the one that the UMA Expression Player uses.
     
  23. ecurtz

    ecurtz

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    I'm pretty sure most people in game development use Maya or Blender (probably for reasons like this). It sounds like it is working though - if you import it as centimeters the model and bones are correct, but the system scale is wrong: https://davewortley.wordpress.com/2...-a-matter-of-scale-not-just-for-maxscripters/ (I guess I was wrong that this should be in meters, try centimeters for both).

    But it seems to me that the real problem is that you're trying to combine two files from different sources and Max is crap at scaling skinned meshes. I don't see any way you can possibly do what you're trying to do without scaling one of them at some point so you're going to have to follow one of the tutorials about how to do that.
     
  24. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    Just an update on non-bonkers Max fbx file...

    I just tried exporting an fbx from Blender, first of all I tried setting the export settings to 100x scale and the result was immense...

    However, I then just exported with the scale set to normal (1), and lo and behold, the model came into Max at a reasonable size (the same size the current FBX file in the pack comes in at 100x). So maybe the version of Blender used to save the fbx versions in the creator pack had some kind of glitch that Max fbx importer doesn't like (the minuscule scale issue happens in Max 2014 and 2016 btw)?

    You need to import it with 'Bone Creation > Convert as dummy' selected in the fbx dialog to see a reasonable model though- and I don't know enough about rigging to know if there are any consequences to this; if you import it with Bone Creation > Leave as bones selected, the Left/RightInnerBreast_end nubs (and quite a lot of other nubs around the face to a lesser degree) get epicly proportioned (about 4x the size of the whole model) I'll see if I can sus out why...

    Also I've no idea if this file works properly in Unity as far as UMA is concerned...
     

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  25. ecurtz

    ecurtz

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    Blender recently (maybe 2.71?) replaced all of their FBX export with completely new code and broke everything in sight (maybe they aren't better than Max after all) and of course Unity modified their default import rules with the switch to 5. However I believe things inside Unity will be ok even if you have a Scale Factor set on the FBX file importer. I just put a unit cube into the scene and compare the model to it first thing. Once it's processed into a slot and TPose it doesn't need that file anymore anyway.

    o_O Why is everyone trying to make new races? It's probably the single hardest thing to do well and you lose access to all the preexisting slots... o_O
     
  26. hopeful

    hopeful

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    When you explain what your problems are and then post the solutions, I think it is helpful for everyone.
     
  27. hopeful

    hopeful

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    Maybe creating new races will be easier in UMA 3.0. :)
     
  28. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    Well for me, I have made a scene with characters and animation that I am happy with, but the next step for me is to get my app made- and currently I feel its too big filesize wise and that is in quite a large part because I have 4 different character meshes.

    So what I am trying to use UMA for is creating modular versions of my characters so that in the first instance I don't need to have 4 different full character meshes loaded but can just have one with different sets of hair and clothes. Then in future updates I'll be adding new scenes to the app (somehow) which will feature the same characters but probably with different clothes.

    I'm hoping that by using UMA those app bundles can themselves be smaller as they wont need to include new complete character meshes, just different outfits for the existing ones and any extra scene props and such.

    I'm not creating a game as such, just 'scenes' that are created in 3d for augmented reality, and its very unlikely I'll need any of the type of clothes (armor and stuff) that people are generally creating for UMA...
     
  29. ecurtz

    ecurtz

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    Hmm, I don't want to discourage you from using UMA but it doesn't sound like you need very much of the functionality and I really doubt you'll be saving as much space as you think. Most of the space on characters these days is used for textures, not meshes, and you'll still have all of those even after you've chopped up your character. Have you checked the build log to see where the space in the built project is actually being used? http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/ReducingFilesize.html
     
  30. davidosullivan

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    Yeah I have and while its true that the textures are a big culprit the meshes are about 2.5MB each... so 10 in total right now, if I could get that down to 5MB that'd be great.

    So I am hoping to do that by just using 1 mesh for the base race and replacing the face/torso/legs parts for the female (I have made them so the innermouth/eyes/lashes/hands/feet are all the same and in the same place for male and female) I can also give the guys and girls the same shoe slot and a few other things. Then the meshes for the actual clothes and hair I am using from Mixamo are pretty low poly anyway. And I'll modify the textures that Mixamo generates since a lot of times they are duplicates themselves apart from maybe being a different color or something, and overlays in UMA would help me there...

    It would be great if I could get DNA to work, but its not a big priority right now, something I could add later maybe- I'm gonna try and make it work tho...
     
  31. davidosullivan

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    That said, I am getting pretty damn exasperated today...that file I posted earlier of an fbx output from 2.75, is still not right...

    While the scale issue on the mesh itself seems to be ok (if you export with FBX 7.4 Binary) there are still issues- which are a bit like the the issues you get when scaling the original fbx in the content pack up...

    If you select 'leave as bones' when importing you get two huge breast bones and if you select Convert to dummy' when importing, everything looks fine until you check the envelopes on the model itself- then as you can see in the pictures you can see the envelopes are massive which I am sure is wrong...
    UMA-human-female-leaf-oversize.jpg UMA-human-female-funky-envelopes.jpg

    All I am trying to do really, not that I even know if it will work, is get a working UMA fbx into Max, then use its bones to modify the model so its a similar shape to mine, and then try to 'Skin Wrap' my model to the UMA bones...

    But I just dont get the Blender model... My mixamo model has weights painted for every bone and conceptually I understand how the bones are affecting the mesh there.

    But the UMA model only seems to have painted weights for the 'adjust' bones... So I don' t understand how the rest are doing their thing...I guess it must be something to do with the 'envelopes' (not that I know what those are really) but these are huge on the UMA in Max (the second photo)- and very small on my Mixamo model- yet the UMA model still works- I just dont get why or how- and since it looks so wrong I am loath to spend days using it to rig with cos I just feel it probably wont work anyway...

    So I think my only option is to learn Blender rigging so I can do it in there...
     
  32. ecurtz

    ecurtz

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    Well those "end" bones aren't real bones, they're just markers for the extent of their parent bones so you can resize them however you'd like without hurting anything. I don't know anything about the envelopes though.

    All of the vertices are skinned to those adjust bones in UMA because that's how it does the resizing trick. In a regular rig all of those vertices would be weighted to the parent bones of those adjust bones, which are generally just the normal bones you're used to seeing.
     
  33. davidosullivan

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    Ahah ok so its the resizing (Adjust) bones that my mixamo skin weighting should be applied to and the parents of those bones move the weighted ones :) Get it now... I watched Fernandos video about how UMA worked, but I didn't put two and two together until you explained- that makes things ALOT clearer for me Thankyou!
     
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  34. davidosullivan

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    So I have been learning to do some rigging in Blender and I must say I am mighty impressed, loads of little tweaks and commands that just make things so much easier...

    I just have one problem though, for some weird reason whenever I am doing detailed bone manipulation, for some reason I cant get George Michael's 'Freedom' song out of my head and its totally driving me nuts- I hated the song in the 90's and for it now to be part of rigging with Blender could pose a serious usability problem for me...

    I have Googled 'Blender rigging George Michael issues' but got no results... Does anyone know what this might be happening?

    Thanks in advance...
     
  35. davidosullivan

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    Quick question about the new Facial Animation system in UMA2...

    In the Wiki it says that there is 'a new facial animation system influenced by the Mecanim muscle system and blend shapes' so what I am wondering is what I need to do to make this work with my new race?

    What I have now is my mesh skinned to the UMA base skeleton, where I have re-posed the UMA rig so it matches my mesh. So I have exactly the same bones and hierarchy and have got all the weights set as they should be (including the facial ones).

    I'm just confused by the mention of 'blend shapes' in the wiki. The original rig I downloaded from Mixamo had blend shapes but these are screwed up now, but the UMA base mesh doesn't appear to have blendshapes anyway, so I am just wondering if I need to bother re-creating them or if what I have done with the facial bones and weighting will suffice?

    Also is there anything I need to do when creating this to avoid the 'open mouth issue' that I noticed when following SecretAnorak's tuts?
     
  36. ecurtz

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    You'd need to make an animation using the facial bones that has a keyframe for each of the shapes you want to support from the list in Standard Assets/UMA/Core/Scripts/ExpressionPlayer.cs to support the facial animation.

    The open mouth issue is a Mecanim bug. You can avoid it by leaving the jaw bone out of your TPose or only using Mecanim animations that have valid jaw data, or deleting the incorrect jaw data that Mecanim creates by default if it's missing.
     
  37. Teila

    Teila

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    Eli, how often do animations have jaw data? Most do not include any sort of facial expressions. Is it possible to use facial expressions with animations that do not currently have them by blending them somehow? Sorry if that doesn't make sense but we are having the open jaw issue too but would love to use expressions if possible in the future, so hate to delete the jaw bone.
     
  38. ecurtz

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    You don't have to delete the jawbone, simply leave it out of the TPose so Mecanim doesn't know about it. If you're using the Expression Player it has a hack in place to fix it even with the jaw defined, but I think there's a bug in the latest Asset Store build that means this isn't working until the next update.

    It's possible to combine facial animations either using the Expression Player or just custom bone animations you've built on top of the Mecanim animations using the builtin layers and body masks.
     
  39. Teila

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    Great, thank you, Eli. I actually understood all of that. :) I think...
     
  40. davidosullivan

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    Is that like the animations that are on the UMA base meshes in the content pack? Do both the male and female models have all the ones required?
     
  41. ecurtz

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    The source animations for the default expression poses are in UMA/Content/UMA/Humanoid/FBX/Expressions. I don't think they are included in the content pack, just the main UMA package.
     
  42. MaxPower42

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    Thanks for the link. I'm almost through with the series and have my working UMA.

    How come there's virtually no UMA content to be found on the web? It's so useful and has been around for years, right? It's almost like a Unity standard asset and nobody is sharing clothing etc? All I found was the official website that hasn't been updated in 2 years and doesn't have any downloads :(

    Isn't there anything or am I just not finding it?

    [Ok, there's some assets on the store, but very little is free...]
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  43. MaxPower42

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    Is there some kind of OnGeneratingFinished-Callback function? I don't want to check in Update() every frame if the character is finished.
     
  44. SecretAnorak

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    Keep watching the lessons ;) Number 15 IIRC
     
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  45. Teila

    Teila

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    I doubt you will find very much. Making clothing is complex, like any other model and you have to have some knowledge regarding rigging and skin weights. I have made a few simple things and it takes time. I certainly wouldn't give my stuff away for free so I can't blame those that make full clothing costumes for charging for their time. If you want free, you need to grab Blender and learn to do it yourself. :)
     
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  46. davidosullivan

    davidosullivan

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    The fact that there are no base mesh files that work in Max etc (without being totally screwed up) (I've tried C4d too) makes doing anything yourself with UMA that is not Blender based a MASSIVE mission too...
     
  47. Teila

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    That may be true but it is equally challenging for everyone. There are some wonderful clothing options on the asset store. Well worth the money, in my opinion. Unfortunately, if you cannot make them yourself, then that is your best choice. I have made items in Maya without difficulties, not easy, but doable.
     
  48. andrew210

    andrew210

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    My reason for wanting to make a new race is we're making a mobile MMO game and need this sort of thing (with low poly models). If I was making a desktop game though, there's no way I'd do anything but tinker with the packaged UMA stuff
    chibi1.jpeg

    Thanks for the tips on Blender Export! I'll keep playing around with the settings, am sure I'll get there eventually :)
     
  49. MaxPower42

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    @Teila
    The thing is, I am a hobbyist who has programmed "low-level" with PhysX, Irrlicht and openAL in the past 5 years. I can programm in C++ and now that I am starting with Unity, I am learning C# as well. But that's pretty much it: programming and putting things together. I am totally talent-free when it comes to arts and I can't afford spending hundreds of euros to get enough variety from the asset store. Just one or two packages wouldn't do.
    There's so much free content on the web. Just think of elder scrolls mods. There are many "loose" rigged 3D models as well, but virtually none are modular, that's the problem. I guess generators like UMA or MakeHuman simply aren't popular enough to get enough content. It's a shame though, because UMA is such a handy framework. There's sooo many open-source engines etc on the coding side to use freely, but when it comes to artistic work... I wish the gaming industry would release some ressources from games that are five or more years old every now and then.

    @SecretAnorak
    I see. I haven't gotten to that part yet. Anyway, thanks for your effort! I wouldn't have known where to start.
    You have a lovely, soothing voice btw ;)
     
  50. Teila

    Teila

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Posts:
    6,932
    I understand. But getting clothing to fit the UMA characters that is not made for UMA characters is very difficult to do. Not impossible, but takes skill with a modeling program. This is very off-topic, but I always tell people to work within their skill level OR take the time to learn. I didn't know anything about modeling...was a geologist in the past, not an artist. But I picked up enough knowledge and am not bad now..not skilled, but can make useful items. :)

    You might try Fuse..it is free at the moment. It comes with a lot of clothes and you can drop it in your game. The characters look very good. :) If you are a programmer, you can figure out ways to make it work in your game.

    There is plenty of content but not free content. I doubt making it free will increase the amount of content. :)