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[Open Source] TC Particles: millions of GPU particles

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by pvloon, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    Yeah, I found the particle structure change right away, but this problem is not related to that. I'm trying to compare the new code to the old code on another system to try to find a difference. None, so far.

    K.N. Chaffin
     
  2. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    The gizmo square always faces the camera. If I comment out my compute extension, I get no particles since I initially have them set to 0 velocity and no forces etc. This sure looks like a transform issue, but I cannot determine which. Did you change the transforms used to align the gizmo with the camera and if so, could that be affecting the emitter transforms? I'm out of ideas. I cannot back out of the 1.3b update. I made a backup copy of all of the TCParticles Asset folders, but when I copy those back over to the folders, some things are unresolved. I probably would need to reimport after restoring the folder contents.

    I just tried to reimport my restored folders but I still get unresolved references. So, I am committed to the 1.3b path.

    K.N. Chaffin
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
  3. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    I'm convinced that this is related to the compute shader emitterRotationMatrix and perhaps simulation.space, but I can not determine what has changed in this regard in 1.3b . I have tried World and Local space and both give the same results.
     
  4. yezzer

    yezzer

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    With the latest version of TC Particles I'm having a lot of problems with "Maximum number (64) of shader keywords exceeded" (also mentioned in this this thread).

    Is there a fix for this? I'm cleaning out a lot of unused shaders from my project, but am still having this problem. Does TC Particles use a lot of shader keywords?
     
  5. pvloon

    pvloon

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    @KEN chaffin: Hmm, this all really sounds odd. I will talk to you on the mail soon and we can try and sort it out, good find that it's something with the matrix. I might just be wrongly flipping the projection matrix when I don't need to, but Im not entirely sure why. Thanks for all the search work!

    @yezzer: Hmmm, that is a big problem. Alloy, TC Particles, and marmoset all use shader keywords to manage their permutations. For whatever reason unity limits this to 64 globally, even if there are only a few on a material. Unity 5 raises that to 128, but that's still too little. All asset store vendors are kinda moving away from using shader keywords because of that (at least I know alloy is), and I'm trying as well. I'll prioritize this for the next patch, as TC Particles + Alloy + marmoset is a popular combo, so can't have that broken. I will send you a betá build with less keywords when I have one
     
    yezzer likes this.
  6. yezzer

    yezzer

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    Thanks for the speedy reply. We were really hoping to use TC Particles in our project, but may need to remove it, which would be a real shame. Do you know when you're likely to have a beta build?
    We have very tight timescales, so am wondering whether we can wait, or whether we'll have to use a different solution.

    Edit: We are indeed using Alloy + Skyshop + TC Particles (and other plugins such as Amplify Color)
     
  7. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    As documented via email, I found the source of the problem in 1.3b and now have a workaround that is working fine by editing the TCP source code. I also identified a problem with the compute shader extension template having incorrectly defined SystemParameters structure that did not match the TCP source code. Correcting this also solved some issues that have been around a while.

    K.N. Chaffin
     
  8. Research_3DVAL

    Research_3DVAL

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    Ahah, ok, thanks for the reply. I haven't had time to check the patched version yet, though I should be fine to work with that. Thanks for the offer of the package though (what service!)

    And yeah, I can imagine its difficult to make a timeframe when you're now holding down a fulltime gig. I'll try and give those tube colliders a go... though are they standard components or?
     
  9. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Patch 1.3.1 has just been submitted to the asset store:

    -Removed 11 shader keywords for improved compatibility with other shader packages
    -Fixed a bunch of bugs, including fixing the terrain sample scene
    -Fixed all problems with projection matrices

    :)


    @yezzer: Send me a mail at tinycubestudio@gmail.com with your invoice number if you want to try the package, I hope 11 keywords is enough to get you back under 64 shader keywords in that project!

    @KEN Chaffin: Thanks for all the search work! I fixed the problems with the projection matrices, and updated the template with the proper system parameters. I hope this'll fix all the issues for you without source code hacks, but yeah thanks so much for the contributions

    @CofaResearch: The tube colliders are indeed just a standard TC COllider component - attach it to a physX shape, or choose your own shape in there (like tubes, cylinders, capsule's, rounded boxes, etc.)

    Hope that helps, lemme know how that goes :)

    Best regards,
    Arthur
     
  10. overthere

    overthere

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    Just tried the updated Tc particles and it is still hard crashing my AMD driver so is unusable
     
  11. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    I downloaded patch 1.3.1 and found that my use of TCP is now broken again. The projection matrix fixes changed the symptoms just a bit but the fundamental issue still exists. I will have to see if I can modify the TCP source code in the same way as before to have a workaround..... I just did the same modification as before to the "If (D3D)" section of code in TCParticleRenderer.cs and it did once again fix the projection matrix problem.

    K.N. Chaffin
     
  12. DrewMedina

    DrewMedina

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    So I updated to unity4.5, deleted the plugin tcparticles and editor.
    TCParticles is broken, just like people said above. None of the demos scenes work, and I can get the bare minimal working with a new tcparticle system. Stretched bill boarding is broken as well.
    I hope we get a new version or there is a fix for this, not feeling too confident based on this thread. Also, will you ever create the tutorial videos? Are you winding down support for TC?
     
  13. jesta

    jesta

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    Also broken for me since 1.3.1. Stretched billboard only appears with negative lengths.
     
  14. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Hey everyone,

    Oh that is really bad. Somehow a last minute change snuck in there and messed it all up. It mesed up the projection stuff @kenchaffin, and broke stretched billboards @jesta, which in turn broke the sample project @HeadTrip. Im really sorry about that, I have done a push to get shape emission ready so I can submit the patch asap. I will be submitting the patch this saturday, but feel free to email me (tinycubestudio at gmail.com) with your invoice number and I can sent you the patch. Again I'm really sorry about the situation. Your comments are justified HeadTrip, but it's not like that. I'm not winding down support (and won't for the forseeable future). I do have a lot less time with my startup-full-time-aka-crazy-hours job, but despite I'm still fixing TC Particles and adding new features, be it at a slower pace than I would like. The tutorial videos is another mismanagement on my part (I don't make them myself), but I'm sorting it out. They are still intentended to come.

    In any case, TC Particles has always been there for the long run. DX11 is only going to get more relevant, so it wouldn't make any sense for me to drop TC particles when it's best days are still ahead :)

    Patch notes:

    -Fixed (tail) stretched billboards
    -Added shape emitters system
    -Drastically lowers CPU overhead depending on your setup
    -Efficiently managed by "shape tags"
    -Allows for effects previously impossible to do
    -Added tooltips for almost all properties on the system, forces, etc.
    -Cleaned up inspectors a little bit
    -More misc bug fixes
     
  15. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    I just applied the 1.3c patch and my TC-Particles still work! Thank you for resolving this issue. I've been using a work-around as you know so I did not lose any ground during the problem, but it is nice to know the problem should be permanently resolved now.

    K.N. Chaffin
     
  16. LeftyTwoGuns

    LeftyTwoGuns

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    My biggest concern seeing something like this asset was performance. But I was just messing around in the Museum of the Microstar demo, and it was running just fine at 1080p on my nearly 5 year old 5850, so that worry has been laid to rest. Hard to believe those are all individual particles

    Something as powerful as this asset is a bit further out for my project but you've definitely earned a potential customer. DX11 features seem too intuitive and dynamic to not to get involved with them at any chance you can
     
  17. CheeryDach_Bryan

    CheeryDach_Bryan

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    Hi,

    I'm wondering if this plugin can be used in Parallels Desktop on Mac?
    I've tried but there seems some errors and I'm not sure if those scenes displayed are correct.
    Thanks.
     
  18. DrewMedina

    DrewMedina

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    Hello,
    Hows that new version coming? Looking forward to using TC again.
    Thanks!
     
  19. sloopidoopi

    sloopidoopi

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    Hi ,
    I'm playing with the latest release but have some problems with the visibility of the particles. When I put a gameobject in front of the camera to hide my particle system it doesn't work as expected. When I move the camera more away suddently my particels get visible, even if the gameobject in front should hide them. It depends on the distance from the camera to the gameobject. When the distance (camera-gameobject ) is for example 25, the particle system has to be at least 25 away (gameobject-particlesystem) to be hidden. Its like a mirror. (Windows 7 64-bit, ATI)
     
  20. Homer-Johnston

    Homer-Johnston

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    Hi there, I'm wondering if there might be a bug with the draw order of sprite sheet animation or if it could be a setting I can't find... it seems to draw the bottom row first, then it skips up to the top row and proceeds down. This is the order it is rendering in, for me:

    http://i.gyazo.com/eb279d62c9aaf4cf49281c749f43a388.png

    I haven't verified 100%, but I don't believe it worked like this in an earlier release. Is this normal? Thanks!
     
  21. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Woah, appearantly gmail decided to move my alerts to the social tab, a tab that's flooded by waay too much stuff. Sorry for missing these messages

    @LeftyTwoGuns: Thanks for the kind words :) MotM Is actually in some way a bad example, the particles take a fraction of the performance on it, and TC Particles has gotten much leaner since ^^ The artistics quality hasn't gone down though, kudo's to my friends over at rust ltd for that :) Let me know if you need anything, Ive edited the first forum post with my full contect details to be as transparent as possible (and not have gmail mess up my alerts again, grmbl grmbl)

    @CheeryDach_Bryan: TC Particles just renders to whatever it's told to by unity. Can you setup a scene that correctly renders without TC Particles? What are the errors you're seeing? This might be a unity problem :(

    @HeadTrip: See bottom of post :) Sorry for the delay

    @sloopidoopi: See bottom of page :)

    @Homer Johnston: That is definitely odd, thank you for the heads up about that. SInce I was resubmitting the patch today anyway (see post below) I fixed that as well. Sprite sheets will now render from the expected top left to bottom right order.

    So then the update. Ive been working on getting the patch out to fix the mess TC Particles is in currently alongside bringing the new shape emitters. I'm really excited about those at the shape emitters will allow effects that previously just weren't feasible.

    The patch was almost there but then @AntonHand from rust found a couple more issues. The patch has been resubmitted today because of that, so that should mean that it is up in a day or two. The full patch notes are:

    -Added shape emitters! A great way to drastically lower CPU overhead / avoids the need for any pooling
    -Create one by using GameObject/Create Other/TC Shape Emitter
    -Create a tag by using the dropdown, and assign it to a source system and to the shape emitter
    -The shape emitter will now emit according to the settings of the system with the same tag

    -Fixed billboard and strecthed billboard
    -Fixed all issues where spaces were acting weirdly in certain hierarchies
    -Fixed an issue where particles were not z culled properly
    -Fixed an issue where sprite sheets rendered in an incorrect order
    -Removed last bits of garbage allocation in the updates and API's
    -A lot of misc bug fixes and optimizations


    Lastly, I will be at Unite in Seattle this year, I hope to meet some of you there :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
    John-G likes this.
  22. DrewMedina

    DrewMedina

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    sounds good, looking forward to it! Can you explain how the shape emmiters save CPU?
     
  23. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Image that you build a really cool bullet trail particle system and put it on a bullet. Machine gun fire will be quite a load for the CPU though, each time a bullet is spawned it has to load in all of that data, has to link up to the proper forces, colliders, bake gradients to textures, creates a bunch of garbage etc. Then while running it has to update them all separately.

    Now you would place on source system in the scene, and a shape emitter on each bullet. The source will emit particles for all of the shape emitters given their emission rates. The shape emitters themselves only describe a volume, and are very cheap to spawn. The system only has to update once, and do some minor stuff per shape emitter, and thus costing a lot less CPU.

    TC Particles was always good at doing 100.000 particles in 1 system, this is the first step to solving the 100 particles in a 1000 systems problem :)
     
  24. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Patch 1.3.5 is up! Just to reiterate the release notes:

    -Added shape emitters! A great way to drastically lower CPU overhead / avoids the need for any pooling
    -Create one by using GameObject/Create Other/TC Shape Emitter
    -Create a tag by using the dropdown, and assign it to a source system and to the shape emitter
    -The shape emitter will now emit according to the settings of the system with the same tag

    -Fixed billboard and strecthed billboard
    -Fixed all issues where spaces were acting weirdly in certain hierarchies
    -Fixed an issue where particles were not z culled properly
    -Fixed an issue where sprite sheets rendered in an incorrect order
    -Removed last bits of garbage allocation in the updates and API's
    -A lot of misc bug fixes and optimizations
     
  25. DrewMedina

    DrewMedina

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    cool, thanks! Updated and running... anyone else using a Rift and DK2 not seeing TC particles?
    I'm not seeing them in my final export, but there a bunch of things not working currently (full screen fx...)
     
  26. pvloon

    pvloon

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    You are right. I luckily have a DK 2 here to, and have been debugging this for quite a while. Unfortunately, it is broken on oculus' end :(

    https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=12406

    That's a forum topic I opened on it. I hope oculus get's a look at it soon. More people seem to have this issue, so it's definitely not TC Particles specific.
     
  27. DrewMedina

    DrewMedina

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    ahhh ok, thanks for looking into it and pushing the issue!
     
  28. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    It has been a few months since I tried this, but I have successfully used TC Particles on the Oculus DK1, I have not tried it with the DK2 since currently none of my personal Unity content for Oculus is working on the DK2. I hope to resolve this soon.

    K.N. Chaffin - Texas Tech University
     
  29. negativecap

    negativecap

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    I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on using the frustum culling in TC particles... I'm having troubles where my particle systems all just shut off seemingly at random, even when I'm looking right at them. I'm using a portal based occlusion culling system, but this seems to happen even when I'm not viewing the particle system through a portal, so I'm not sure that could be the problem.

    One other potential problem is that I'm instantiating a bunch of prefabs at runtime that have the same tc particles component attached, could it be that it's turning them all off instead of just the ones that are out of view?

    What's the best way to go about this?
    Thanks.

    EDIT: It appears it's not random after all. I think that when the first particle system that spawns is culled everything is. I'm not sure what to do about it though. There's a component that seems like it might be meant to deal with this, but I have no idea how to use it and it's not in the docs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  30. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    I'm curious if the Oculus 0.4.3 SDK that was released yesterday fixes the TC-Particles issues. Also, which version of Unity does it work with if so. I see in the release notes that it works with 4.5.5 and higher. I'm experimenting with 4.6beta20, so I do not know if it will work with that or not. Sure would be nice to return to working with the Rift. The Oculus extended mode was removed from 0.4.3, so now we must use the direct mode. By the way, I posted the following image in the Vectrosity forum today and mentioned TC-Particles. In this image the neurons are TC-Particles with a material texture of a actual neuron applied. The curved arcs are Vectrosity cubic splines representing synapses.

    Ken Chaffin - Texas Tech University Informatics Media Lab
     

    Attached Files:

  31. FiveFingers

    FiveFingers

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    I plan to buy this soon for a new project.
    I am now on my coworker computer which bought your Indie version of the lib.
    I have two quick questions.

    1. I opened the force example scene, and there are two GameObject (named GameObject) one of them is fine, with a collider and the Force script on it, the second one, got a missing script reference. What script should I put there?
    2. Are somewhere some other examples or demo scene I can download on the web ?
    Thanks in advance
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  32. Research_3DVAL

    Research_3DVAL

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    Yeah, I'm involved in Oculus development, so let me know if you get any answers regarding this.

    Also wondering if there's going to be any more documentation/tutorials released for this product sometime. I was under the impression that more were supposed to be incoming at some stage, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside for now? I'm particularly interested in learning a bit more about different TC particles collision types, interaction with physics systems etc.
     
  33. John-G

    John-G

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    Any update on the new Tutorial videos?
     
    BobBobson108 likes this.
  34. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    Unfortunately I had to shelve my Oculus/Unity work for the time being. I spent about a week trying to get the Oculus DK2 SDK 0.4.3 working with Unity Pro 4.6beta21. This problem has nothing to do with TC-Particles even though I am using a TC-Particles representation for a neuron array. I could not get Unity RenderTexture's to work under Windows on the monitor, without even having the Oculus Rift attached. I am doing a lot with those DX11 RenderTexture's, including passing them between Unity, CUDA and DirectCompute as data buffers, but it has always worked up until now. I tried everything I could think of and just could not determine why the procedural data textures displayed black.

    The good news is that TC-Particles is doing everything I want, without the 0.4.3 Rift/Unity integration files in place.

    K.N. Chaffin - Texas Tech University Informatics Media Lab
     
  35. Cynicat

    Cynicat

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    one thing that makes me sad is that it looks like there hasn't been a real update on this thread in almost 6 months. i'm waiting for depth buffer collision before buying but it looks like it won't happen at this rate. =<
     
  36. smnerat

    smnerat

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    So I saw this problem earlier in this thread (pg 6 and 7 @ LeoSalles) about turbulent forces not working correctly. I'm having the same problem and wondering if any one else has the same problem or has figured out how to fix it.
     
  37. sloopidoopi

    sloopidoopi

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    Really sad to see that the support for this asset has gone to the Nirwana. Come on Arthur, show some responsibility for your baby or make this asset open source.
     
  38. raxter

    raxter

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    Hello!

    I am trying to use TC particles to create particles in custom locations. Basically I have an array of positions (about 5000) that I precalculate and I need to emit a particle for each location. I do this once every 0.1s or so

    I'm encountering a problem whereby the .Emit(int) function does not take on positional data so I've had to go to a method whereby I change the TC particle system's position and emit 1 at a time in a loop. This causes a massive slowdown (I'm assuming because it's updating some GPU data for each of the 5000 particles rather than once at the end). But I can't use Emit(5000) because I need those particles to be in very specific locations.

    Is there a way to emit particles in a custom shape? I've not explored generating a mesh on the fly but I'm suspecting this'll won't actually get the particles to emit in the exact positions I want them to, would it?

    [Edit: btw we have the full version with source, so can hack on a custom shape if that is viable? (currently exploring that option)]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  39. raxter

    raxter

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    I managed to get close enough by generating a mesh on the fly with the desired points on the vertices and unchecked 'emit of surface, this causes emission to only happen on the vertecies. Unfortunately this means I can't have one particle per vertex reliably (since it places them randomly) but TC can handle so many particle I can just emit more particles and it'll cover most of them.

    Not ideal but good enough for now in case anyone else comes across this problem!
     
  40. knchaffin

    knchaffin

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    If you need to procedurally set a lot of particles, I recommend writing a TC-Particles extension compute shader as Arthur provides an example in the source code and then you can do all of your particle positions updates in parallel on the GPU. I do this for tens to hundreds of thousands of particles per frame without bogging the system down.

    K.N. Chaffin - Texas Tech University Informatics Media Lab
     
    jxxxxst likes this.
  41. MornFall

    MornFall

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    No more updates ?

    IS there another GPU particle plugin for unity ? I have looked but did not find any. I am still ahve lots of issues with TCParticles , especially when i try to use them in "pooled" gameObjects, that i desactivate and reactive on the fly, it gives a lot of red messages, and sometimes will not re-play properly.
     
  42. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Hello there everyone. Just very straight up :I have indeed neglected TC Particles too much for the past year now. I honestly couldn't keep up for the past year, working uni and on Ori and the blind Forest (http://store.steampowered.com/app/261570/). That is finally done however, and I know that it's bad but hopefully over the coming months I can regain some trust as a publisher and bring TC Particles to a good spot again.

    I have submitted a new version today that supports unity 5 and reduces CPU overhead 25%. The real news is that there is no more pro version - the indie version comes with source now!, the price is now just the indie price (85$)!

    (WARNING: By default indie uses source now. However, if you just update, you will lose your references. To fix that see instructions in the readme)

    @negativecap: The rendering is a bit weird on TC Particles - from what you describe you might be on to something. I cant reproduce so far however, do you have some more specifics?

    @FiveFingers: 1. Should be fixed in this patch, dont think anything needed be on there.

    @smnerat: Im not sure what the problem with turbulence force is. Could you give some more details on the issue?

    @raxter: What ken chaffin set is the most performant for sure :) otherwise, your solution will work, but is indeed a bit inneficieint

    @knchaffin: Still love seeing all the awesome work. Thanks for the continued support!

    @ feydwin: What errors are you seeing with the shape emitters?

    As for the oculus rift issues: I believe oculus still hasn't resolved them. Grmbl grmbl
    As for tutorial videos: Doesnt seem like those will be happening atm :( Unless there still is a big demand for them".
    And finally as for depth buffer collisions, I will try to get that in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
    markefus, jxxxxst, elbows and 2 others like this.
  43. John-G

    John-G

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    That's great to hear, looking forward to its development.
     
  44. PatHightree

    PatHightree

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    Thanks for the U5 update and source !
     
  45. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Thanks all :) Happy to be back!

    Also forgot to mention, if you recently purchased pro (within last 30 days), send me a mail with your invoice nr. to tinycubestudio@gmail.com and I'll compensate for the price drop
     
  46. ZJP

    ZJP

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    Yes. Nice move. :cool:
     
  47. markefus

    markefus

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    So when will the update actually be on the asset store and downloadable? It still says it's the old version.
     
  48. markefus

    markefus

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    I guess I should wait more than 24 hours since you uploaded, ha. Just excited :)
     
  49. Cynicat

    Cynicat

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    very good to hear! depth buffer collision will be pretty important. one thing i saw thats kinda interesting is using a custom second depth pass that renders back faces to figure out depth. apparently it works pretty well even with a super downscaled buffer. interesting if nothing else.
     
  50. MeepyManX

    MeepyManX

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    That's too bad about oculus dk2 support, I would totally push for my company to buy this since we are developing with the oculus at the moment. Unless I'm mistaken that it does work, could you make an oculus build so I can test it out?

    Also I'm adding my vote to the "big demand" for tutorial videos :D