Should i give up 3d art/is this true?

The gentlemen is a clown. My advice would be to immediately block him on Skype and forget he exists.

 

i wonder if that guy has a job... i certainly wouldnt hire him hes a debby downer. dont listen to debby downers. and you still have to figure out what your good at modeling, like cartoony characters or realistic characters. youll find your calling one of these days.

 

And as the saying goes, "It's easier to steer a moving ship than one that's not moving".

 

And if it's the Exxon Valdez, hopefully it's moving reeeeaaaaallllllly slooooooow

 

And leaking reeeeallly sloooow...

 

Come on Stevenson,
Show us your 3D models, so we can judge you and tell you if "you have it or you do not". >

 

The guy is full of it.

What is required is practice. And if you're starting late, it just means you need to practice more often.

The best practice would be to learn real modeling. You know... with clay. This just helps your mind think in 3D.

When you've put in 10,000 hrs of real practice, you'll be a solid pro. Be patient and keep working!

 

I'm late to this discussion, but ... I just gave a speech at Modsim World 2011 about this very subject. There is a book you really, really should ready. It's called, 'Mindset' by Carol Dweck. Anyway, I was going to write you a long response, but I was inspired enough that I blogged about it instead.

Please check it out and leave a comment if you stop by - makes it more fun to blog .

Gigiwoo

 

If you ever feel like you want to give up, go and take a look at your first efforts, and see how far you've come.

 

I think as you get older you realize more that practice is where it's at. Doesn't matter what your doing if you want to get better you just do it more. Just like proper diet and exercise help keep you physically fit, lots of practice at art, not just 3d on the computer but drawing, modeling, photography. Doing a broad range of artistic things will develop your skills which all come together to make great art.

Albert Einstein once said as much about problems and achievement.

So just keep practicing .

 

That guy is a jerk, but he does have a tiny bit of the truth there...

There are a small set of people who will have, as he puts it, "the logic" naturally.
There will also be a small set of people who will never be able to get their head around it.

But he's making the case that these two sets are the whole; but there's a whole slew of people in between those two extremes who can be taught and learn.

 

To quote the song Clint Eastwood by Gorillaz.

Rhythm. You have it or you don't -- that's a fallacy.

 

You are either creative or you're not, So what would you say to the curator at this fine Art museum.

This painting actually cost the Canadian taxpayer 1.76 million

 

This is not true. I am able to do technically perfect model in 3dsmax, but from "art side" it will suck. You need to have good idea, you need to feel composition, etc...I designed one of cites of my game. It was technically clear, but nothing you would say "wow". I tought my world designers, how to do it, tought them some best practices, etc and after some time these pople were able to do amazing things. Everything was similar (i tought them, so it was similar approach), but their buildings and scenes were far better.
This is the same like with everything else, almost anybody can learn for example to draw, but only few people are able to create something nice.

 

No that is TRUE. Your just going to give up? Creativity is not talent, it's practice. Architects don't build buildings on their first day. They learn from hundreds of thousands of other buildings then learn and study and practice. Just because you fail once doesn't mean you never can. If you study enough games, level layout, stetting vs mood, lighting, theory of flow and direction, player's intuition and more you could make that city amazing. But the moment you say I can't do this, or I don't have the talent then your right, you don't. Level design takes years of study and practice, but not a drop of talent.

Talent is the excuse people use to give up or quit doing something. Creativity is no different from any other skill, exposure to new and different things is a learning process, the brain is like a muscle, knowledge and experience is great exercise and from it we feel good.

Talent is the worst concept invented by man. Pianists aren't talented, their skilled. Artists, modelers, designers, directors, writers, musicians, etc. they are all SKILLED not talented.

You can do anything you want, but those too lazy to take up the conviction to fail and try again and again will always fail and blame it on talent.

 

A classic tale I enjoy:

One day a donkey fell into a well. The farmer couldn't get him out, so he knew he had to cover him up. He called in his neighbors, and they all started to throw dirt down the well smacking the donkey in the face, but instead of being covered up the donkey would shake the dirt off and take a step up. Soon the dirt was so high the donkey stepped out of the well.

You can pass this off as metaphorical nonsense of course and everyone's comments as hollow moral boosting chivalry, but I still believe the pursuit of dreams and seeming impossibilities is better than being buried alive... or something like that.

 

People are not same, somene is smarter, someone is stronger, someone has bigger hands...all these thing are influenting what wan can do and in what we can be good. Do you know why M. Phelps was breaking world records in 15 years? He was hardworking, but he has unique body (proportions), which is giving him advantage. And these dispositions are what makes final difference.

I am the last person, who is giving up. But I undestand, that each person is different. You have genetical disposition for something, or you dont. Yes, training can help a lot, actually by training and hard work you can achieve quite high level (far higher than anybody with talent who is not hard working), but you cant never compete with people, who are hardworking same as you and they have even talent. And on the top level everybody is hadrworking there, so talent is what makes difference. Do you think, that Mozart was that good only because of training? No, he was better after few years of training than vast majority of musicians after lifetime.

I personally know people, whose FIRST work was better, than something from professionals, who were doing it for living 20 years. So how is it possible, if result is only about hardworking?

If you were right, anybody would be able to do anything and this is NOT true. You cant learn, you can improve a lot, but without talent you will never be really good. Just wake up and look around yourself and accept reality. This is objective fact.

 

It's all stuff that can be taught and learned and improved on with practise.

All of it.

 

If somebody is artist by nature, he will be always better than you, if you are not (in case he is training too). My people became better than me after fragment of time. And they were using approaches I taught them. And this is what is going on. Why employ person, who needs 1 year of hard work to became at least average, if i can hire somebody, who has talent and is able to learn it in one week?

 

(Talent + Practise) > Practise

 

Obviously! But sadly people with talent sometimes rest on their laurels... good news if you make an effort, you can get as good as them, and easily surpass their skill.

source: the rabbit vs turtle tale! X)

 

But really, ultimately Talent = Practise.

You may take longer to get to that point than someone with an affinity for it, but with enough dedication it's possible to reach the same point.

 

Take a look at this thread:

http://des.emory.edu/mfp/efficacynotgiveup.html

or do a simple Google search for "Famous Rejections"

The common thread in all this and in some of the great advise on this post, is that success seems to have a lot more with how far you're willing to take what have than with what you have to start with.

 

In 2009 ignorant people would say this young artist had no talent, those same ignorant people in 2010 would say she has potential, in 2011 they say "my she's talented!"

 

Sorry, but I disagree. While practise will improve your skills, you will always reach a point at which you can't get any better and are still surpassed by someone else. Otherwise, we would all be profi football players, Nobel prize winners and rock superstars.

That said, it's still ok not to be the best at something. If only the best of us would use their skills, there would only be one person using Unity for example.

 

Sorry, but I disagree.

See;
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=870

It's one dude's sketchbook documenting his art skill progression from not knowing the very basics to being very, very good. Just learning, dedication and practice.

If you don't want to read it all (even though you should) he goes from this;
http://attachments.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90144
To this;
http://attachments.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=111855

It's all down to hard work and practice. It really is. It can all be taught, it can all be learned.

 

Let's just say we agree to disagree.

I wouldn't exactly call his first image "not knowing the very basics". That already looks much better than what most people would be able to come up with for a first drawing.

 

Just to comment that example with picture. If I judge quality of second picture, is is technically quite OK, but from artistic point of view nothing special. It is "technical" drawing from person, who worked hard to learn it, but without any real "beaty" or "elegance".
Anyway person with real talent can draw similar picture after cca 1 week of practicing basic techniques, he does not need 1 year (I ve seen that on my own eyes). Second problem is, that without talent there is limit, you cant never go above. Yes, that limit is quite high, but it is there. It is general rule.

"The common thread in all this and in some of the great advise on this post, is that success seems to have a lot more with how far you're willing to take what have than with what you have to start with. "

This is something totally different and I agree with this. To be successful you dont need to be really good. You just need to work hard and have patience and it is enough to be just average. Actually to be successful is more importatnt to be able to "sell", not produce high quality "products".

 

I think the difference with talented people is just that they enjoy it more.

Think about the kid in class that's talented at drawing. Usually he or she has been drawing since the age of 4 or earlier. Drawing on wall, with cranyons, school notepads, school backpacks, school desks, school walls. Constantly running out of places to draw, resorting to corner of notebooks, magazines, everywhere. They become unaware of time and their surroundings, staying up all night doing what they love.

So when you're 15, 20, 30, etc, and you decide to be as good as the 'talented' people, keep in mind you're several years behind.

The truth is that you can still get better. If you but the same dedication.

Many talented people throw away their talent, the decide to focus on other things, and lose most of their skills.

That's when we come in! If we learn and give it enough time, in several year we can catch up and surpass their skills!

But you have to know two things 1) It'll take time 2) You gotta enjoy it as much as talented people did.

Thinking you can't do it for whatever reason, because you're too old or "not talented" will only make you waste perfectly good energy.

 

IF YOU NEED TO ASK YOU DON'T HAVE WHAT IT TAKES.
Simple.

 

I disagree. "Talented" people tends to take their talent for granted. Just how many people you know that actually APPRECIATE AND MAKE USE of what they have? I will bet not many. Most people are always looking for something they don't have while ignoring what they do have. I will say from life experience most people squander their own "talent" while pursuing something completely different (and sometimes meaningless) and then settle on something else "because that's what they can get".

Personally, I have never met a person who appreciate for what they have. People don't appreciate things that are "given" - be it talent, beauty, wealth...etc. But people treasure what they "earn" - when you invest your blood, sweat and time into something its something you will treasure, you felt its something you "earn".

People all set out to pursue what they don't have, be it a spouse, or the quality you see in your spouse, or a job, a hobby, wealth... etc. So, the question is NOT about talent, but how much you felt you are deficient at something, and that's what drives people into become who they are.

 

nice bawss, couldnt said it better.

 

Just simple question. If talent does not exist, how is possible, that this girl

http://www.ceskoslovenskytalent.cz/video-adela-ferencova-zpev/

is after 4 years of training better, then most of singers after lifetime (at the end the member of jury said exactly this)? Argument, that she trained more is ridiculous. And if anybody does not accept this fact, I have nothing to say more, it is wasting of time speaking with such person.

 

Oh talent exist. Surely everybody agrees to that. It is fact that everyone is biologically different - some people are taller which give them advantage to certain task eg. NBA stars, while some have bigger feet eg. Australian Olympic champion Ian Thorpe who has unusually large size 17 feet which give him enormous advantage at swimming. Some people have more nerves in their inner ears or their eyes that make them more perceptive to sound or color that give them advantage at certain artistic endeavors (be it musicians or artists), while some people's brain are wired differently that make them perceive or think differently to others that give them some advantages at certain task - everyone's brain is wired differently and that affects its dopamine, endorphin, hormone level that in turn makes people excel (or hinder) at certain tasks.


But all the biological advantages ("talent") only gets you so far. If you don't use it, its useless.


One of my favorite movie is "Gattaca" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/), which was about people given natural talents but squanders it, while people who are born "talentless" driven by desire, achieves the impossible in a Dystopian future. And in the movie, the most memorable quote for me was :

"There's no gene for fate.".

We were all given something when we were born, but fate is not one of them, because fate is what we make it out to be.

 

I might put this into notepad to remind me every day. I have made some bad choices in last three years with pursing something that i might like or like a little. But to add something on what you said: What if person doesnt like about himself too much towards what he is driving to?
I am really looking forward for an answer.

 

I think you already answer your own question.
The question is, what are you going to do about it?

 

I never said otherwise. But there are few people claiming, that talent does not exist and that everybody can be Mozart, if he keeps practicing

 

First of all that's no Gentleman.

Modeling is not a talent that your born with.
Good 3D art come's with years of practice and patience.

Those that think they can't model are inpatient or just not-willing enough to learn.

And what the hell "Logic of modeling" does that even exist ?

Just ignore this so called Gentleman, Only you know what you can and can't do.

There's always space for improvement, and i'm probably the worst modeler on this site maybe even the web.

 

If you have artistic feeling and tutor, who gaves you right technical information (or you are not dumb and you can read), you can bacame really good in very short time. Modeling is part technic, part art. If you dont posses artistic part, you can model quite well too, but it will be only technical modelling without "soul".

But it does not make any sense to repeat it again and again.

 

People assume that talent is what makes success, but this is simply not true. It's hard work and constant growth that leads to success. Look at Michael Jordan or Einstein or even just your garden variety of kids. Starting with a raw talent can be an advantage, but it can also be a handicap. Here's something crazy:

That's a quote from my blog on Mindset by Carol Dweck. Which I wrote in response to this thread. A natural inclination can get you a little ways, but it's hard work and continual improvement that leads to success - and that can happen with or without raw talent.

If you read books like 'Good to Great' or 'Great By Choice', you will see that many of the worlds most valuable companies were led to the top, not by super-smart, ultra-talented people. Rather, they were led to the top by people that learned from their mistakes and worked hard at a single vision over a long period of time. They worked and worked and worked at something, learned from their mistakes and set backs, and eventually got very good at it.

That ... is what is known as success.

If you want to be a modeler or artist, then do two things: 1) Tell yourself, out loud, 'I am an artist'. Then, 2) Work your butt off learning to be a better artist than you already are.

Good luck,
Gigiwoo.

 

One of the problems with learning art for games is that modern conceptual art is the kind of art that the art world takes most seriously where art for games has more in common with classical art, design and composition. Finding a good book on composition is very hard today, most of the best ones are out of print since the 50's. Till recently there was very little information about classical art, we only really had the final images but not the information about how to see, think and understand what you are looking at composition, color and value wise and how to make it communicate to the viewer.

Today we have the WWW with blogs, forums, videos, DVD's etc that with some careful research and a lot of practice can teach you what you need to improve as an artist. It's a real shame that art school goes out of it's way to not teach you these things, even illlustration courses, in most countries don't really teach you what you need to be a good game artist simply because the kinds of knowledge we need is not respected and mostly seen as old fashioned bumf or low brow throw away art that has no value.

So it's really hard to get a solid foundation in the underlying theory of art, but all the information is out there if you really want it enough. And modeling, painting, drawing etc don't have and special pre requisits like an athlete may need to reach the top of their profession. You don't need amazing muscles and reflexes, long legs. You don't even need hands though it helps an awful lot lol. A pair of eyes, hands and a brain and a lot of time and effort to soak up the knowledge and put it into practice and you can be a great artist.

 

This is a great thread. Some really insightful comments being made.

...sip...

 

Agreed.

 

Pfft, just like those people that say that you can't be a good 3D artist if you can't cough up the $4,000 for an Autodesk license of some flavor, which too is false, Blender, Carrara, and Modo are just as capable as Maya or 3ds Max if not more so. It's all about going with what your gut fees comfortable with using, and what you can fall in love creating objects with.

 

Given the correct time and patience, anyone could be Mozart as long as they like doing it.

 

Three years? HAH! Try 10 ! Some choices and mistakes I made I really regret and wish I could undo.

But it is to be human to make mistakes - and the talent I treasure the most is my perchant to make them, and to learn from my mistakes.

It took me many years to realize the real "talent" one can "have" is to live within your own limitation, for what you have, and use it.

 

Sorry, this is nonsense. It is obvious, that you know nothing about music composition or Mozart. You cannot achieve "legendary level" without "genius" genetical dispositions. You can be good without talent, but you will never achieve worldclass level. And if you are anti-talent, you can never be even good. No matter how much you like it and how much you practice.
Just look around yourself and accept reality.

 

Everyone is different! There's lots of types of people. Some have good things and some bad things. Tons of people are are good with spatial reasoning, many others are good with numbers, there's also tons of people with dyslexia, people with little access to learning sources.
Basically there's A LOT of almost everything. But what you've got very little of, is people with discipline, and dedication; people who love what they do! And made their life goal to be better at it. People who aim to be THE BEST, know that only thing between them and their goal, is TIME; and more than anything, they love what they do. If you are able to tackle that single thing that doesn't depend on DNA, or where you were born, then you're already on the other side, all you need to do is make it happen.

I believe that if you're going to do anything for a lot of time, the most important thing is to be proud of what you do, enjoy it, and follow your heart. Do it because you want to do it! Otherwise it's going to be a very painful challenge, and probably not worth it!

Heh, yeah, but don't worry about those minorities!

When you see a kid with such overwhelming skill, it shows there is some DNA advantages involved! But those are rare situations!

Heck, if a 6 year old kid happens to learn 3D modelling better than most pros, it'd be an outstanding talent, but it wont be a threat to the market! See, I think what worries the "non-talented" people, is that there might be a whole bunch of talented people that would be "impossible" to compete with, and that's where I disagree!

Humans can adapt to any situation, and DNA or not, everyone's able to develop in almost any direction. I strongly believe ,unless you're truly handicapped in some way, as a healthy human being, you're capable of achieve more than you think! And probably more than most talented people, you just have to stop worrying and take the bull by the horns!!

 

Sure. And this is what I am talking about. A was reacting on ridiculous claim, that talent does not exist.

 

I humbly suggest you look into a book called, 'Mindset' by Carol Dweck. It's $8 and a couple hours of your time. One of two things will happen: 1) you will think it's a dumb book and it makes no difference, so you lost $8 + 4 hours of time or 2) you will find new insights into yourself and your employees, helping you to form a stronger company. In terms of risk vs reward, it's pretty much a no-brainer. But... it's always up to you - the choice to create a better company, be a better developer, make better products is always just that... a choice.

Good luck,
Gigiwoo.