Poser / Daz Content Native Import

Discussion in 'Wish List' started by replay11, Dec 28, 2007.

  1. replay11

    replay11

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    One of the biggest struggles I have with Unity is getting 3D content that I have either created or purchased for Poser / Daz Studio into Unity. Most Poser users have huge content libraries of fully rigged characters, props, clothing, sets, lights, materials, animations, etc. Part of the reason for this is that the majority of the content available for Poser / Daz Studio is relatively inexpensive compared to other 3D sites. Poser characters come in high res and low res versions (low poly) which would be suitable for Unity. Another big plus is the built-in walk designer that comes with Poser. If you've ever attempted rigging a character in Maya and then animating a walk cycle you know what a huge time saver this is. My current work around goes like this:

    Step 1) I create my custom character, prop or scene in Poser.
    Step 2) I import the Poser file inside Daz Studio (Daz Studio fully supports Poser Import)
    Step 3) Using a $99 FBX export plug-in for Daz Studio I export to FBX
    Step 4) Now if I used Poser's walk designer for the walk cycle or imported BVH motion capture files inside Poser then I can just open directly inside Unity otherwise I proceed to Step 5.
    Step 5) Open FBX file in MotionBuilder and animate or apply motion capture data then save again in FBX.
    Step 6) Either open in Maya or Unity.

    Sometimes this doesn't work as expected... some textures get lost usually the eyelashes transparency gets screwed up or something.
    Also, if I try opening that new FBX file inside Maya (directly after exporting from Daz Studio)... Maya doesn't like it and spits it out so I found a work around for that... I open it up in MotionBuilder first and then save it again as an FBX...maybe MotionBuilder's FBX save adds some additional required info to the file or something? Regardless, once I save the file as an FBX from MotionBuilder then Maya opens it without a hick up just fine. Now I use the newly saved Maya file that contains my original Poser file and then use that to import into Unity. What an adventure! It would be nice to just open the Poser file directly into Unity as is done with Vue 6 Infinite quite nicely.

    One other note: Poser Pro is set for release sometime this winter and it is supposed to have:

    Better Integration with Professional Environments
    Realize the added benefit of quickly animating with Poser’s pre-rigged characters inside of host application such as Autodesk’s 3ds Max and Maya, and Maxon’s CINEMA 4D. Play back Poser scenes in other powerful 3D applications for increased productivity and access to pre built, modifiable content.

    Maximum Flexibility with Poser Content
    The industry-standard COLLADA data exchange format combined with content designed and built specifically for Poser Pro and N-sided's "QUIDAM for Poser", greatly enhance the versatility of the already 30,000 plus 3D models available through Contentparadise.com.

    -----------------------------

    Being able to import Poser scenes into Maya via a dedicated Plug-In will be great, but whether or not that translates over to Unity is unknown.
  2. AaronC

    AaronC

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    There has been some talk in the past that Daz and poser content is not allowed to be used in a geometry sense. I had a look at the license but couldnt identify exactly what the restriction was, if any, but generally we all avoid using it, even though you can very easily export from these apps.

    They want people to use their software for rendering stills and video, but not game design apparently.

    Who here can pinpoint the bit in the license that prevents the use of exported geometry?
    AC
  3. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    I haven't studied this, but attached is a copy of the Daz EULA.

    Another alternative is "MakeHuman" which may be worth investigating depending one what you want to do.

    Attached Files:

  4. Ricko

    Ricko

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    I'm not a lawyer, but to me it is clear from the "Other Restrictions" section of their license agreements (both the applications EULA, and the different EULA for 3D models you can purchase) that you are not allowed to share, sell, or sub-license any derivative work made with the 3D Models, except for rendered images or pre-rendered animations.

    That section pretty much eliminates any reason to use their programs or the tons of models with game making. You get what you pay for.

    Ricko
  5. AaronC

    AaronC

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    So I wonder why on earth they enable things to be exported? When its a license breach to import them into anything else?

    Oh maybe Im just missing the point. I have found DAZ to be quite good at answering tech questions recently so I might hit them up.

    Big K, yes Makehuman is cool. A really good way to learn how to model via example I reckon.
    AC
  6. Ricko

    Ricko

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    Its not a license problem to export them for "personal" use. It is a violation to use them commercially or share them in any form other than pictures.
  7. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    My guess would be so you can render stills or animations in other apps other than those by Daz.
  8. replay11

    replay11

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    This was taken directly off of Poser's website:

    "Poser can be used with professional applications for content production, pre-visualization, gaming and movie production. See what Smith Micro and third party developers have created so Poser content can be utilized in the production workflow".

    They wouldn't make this statement if you can't use the content legally. Now as for Daz Studio Content the following statement was copied directly from their website:

    Collada Exporter
    Using all your favorite 3D content just got even easier! This new file exporter for DAZ Studio allows you to export your entire 3D scene to the new COLLADA interchange technology file format. COLLADA technology is quickly being adopted by more and more major 3D companies and is poised to be become one of the most widely supported and most robust file formats in the world. Take Victoria 4.1 into Maya, Softimage, 3D Studio MAX, or almost any other popular 3D package, with complete mesh, skinning, rigging, lighting, camera, and animation data, which is then immediately editable. This file exporter will bring a whole new realm of possibilities to your existing DAZ 3D content.

    ----
    Once again, I don't think they would be making this possible if you can't legally do anything with the content. I will send them an email to get an official word from them.
  9. replay11

    replay11

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    The following was extracted from Daz's EULA:

    You may (i) access, use, copy and modify the 3-D Models stored on such computers at such single location in the creation and presentation of animations and renderings which may require runtime access to the 3-D Model(s), and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived from the 3-D Model(s) in other works and publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such combined works; provided that you may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any 3-D Model(s) or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any original 3-D Model(s), or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the original 3-D Model(s) can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. Subject to the foregoing limitations, and the rights, if any, of third parties in or to the objects represented by the 3-D Model(s), you may copy, distribute, and/or sell your animations and renderings derived from the 3-D Model(s). All other rights with respect to the 3-D Model(s) and their use are reserved to DAZ (and its licensors).

    --------

    Basically all this is saying is that you can use the 3D models in something you sell commercially (like a game that may require runtime access) as long as the form in which you sell your product the 3D models cannot be exported or extracted in anyway to prevent others from redistributing the content.

    I now believe that it's pretty safe to say that you can use the content in your games as long as people can't extract the models from the game which they shouldn't be able to from the way that Unity compiles it's games. But just to be safe I'm still going to contact them directly about it because I have invested a lot of money over the years in their content.
  10. replay11

    replay11

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    I just sent email questions to the legal departments of both E-Frontier and Daz3D and specifically asked them about the use of their 3D models in video games. Lets see what they say. As soon as I hear back I'll update this post.
  11. AaronC

    AaronC

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    Yes please do.
    AC
  12. Ricko

    Ricko

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    @Joeyjr: You should put ", Esq." after your name. :wink:

    I hope that digging pays off because that is a lot of fairly high quality but affordable content.

    Ricko
  13. replay11

    replay11

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    Your not the first person to tell me that. :p
    I wish I could. I'd probably get paid a lot better!

    I just finished testing the new Daz release with the updated FBX export plug-in and it works fine with Unity now... all textures intact!! I tested importing the OM Hanger from Daz website and some spaceship model and both imported with all textures except for the glass on the spaceship but that was an easy fix because the material came through so I just used a blue color at 50% transparency.

    The only problem is that after I imported the Daz models, Unity's performance has taken a huge hit. It's now too slow to play the game??

    I couldn't get the Collada export from Daz to work in Unity though. The files showed up in Unity, but when I dragged the model into the scene view I would get transform handles, but no sign of the model anywhere?? Very strange. It would even show up in the hierarchy window, but I couldn't locate it in the scene view?
  14. Ricko

    Ricko

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    What is the polygon count on the models?

    Sounds like import scale. FBX often comes in at 0.01 instead of 1.0. Try right clicking on the imported model in the project view then select Import Settings... change Mesh Scale Factor (bigger) and click Import button.

    Ricko
  15. replay11

    replay11

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    Once I removed the mesh colliders from the animated spaceships (Daz Banshee) I got performance back.
  16. replay11

    replay11

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    How do you find the poly count on the models? Does Unity tell me this?
  17. Ricko

    Ricko

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    I get detailed information from the modeling program. In my company's case all modeling and animation is done in Softimage XSI.

    In unity I suppose you could create a scene with just your imported object and turn on stats to see the triangle and vertex counts.

    One of the Unite 2007 videos posted on the resource page gives good targets for poly/vertex count for game objects.
  18. Ricko

    Ricko

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  19. Ricko

    Ricko

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    I emailed DAZ 3D for clarification since their website and license agreements are ambiguous or at least have conflicting statements.

    I asked "Can I use the purchased models in a game engine?"

    First Daz response:
    "You can use our products in a rendered animation or a rendered image but you can’t use it for anything else."


    I emailed again and asked, "I’m assuming based on the wording of the license agreement that includes run-time rendered animations. Please clarify if that is not correct."

    Second Daz response:
    "As long as it is rendered out and not a real-time animation it will be fine. Basically it needs to be impossible for someone to take our models or textures out of your game."


    I emailed again and asked, "If the models are encrypted and not accessible/exportable in any way, is it possible to use them in real-time rendering engine? If not, do you have another license that can be purchase for real-time animation or a game engine use?"

    Third Daz response:
    "You cannot use them for any real-time at all according to the licensing agreement There is not a license that you can purchase that will allow you to do so."


    Sadly, I think that closes the book on this topic.

    Ricko
  20. AaronC

    AaronC

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    Thanks for sorting that out Ricko.
    AC
  21. replay11

    replay11

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    Rico,

    Thanks for the link to the MeshInfo script! That is very useful! I'm really surprised you got such a fast response from Daz regarding their content... even over the Holiday weekend? I still haven't got a response back yet from E-Frontier or Daz regarding my very specific question to them regarding using their content in games. I assumed though that they wouldn't respond until after this long Holiday weekend. I'll let you know if I hear anything back tomorrow.
  22. replay11

    replay11

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    Ricko,

    Who did you speak with at Daz? Were you talking to someone in their legal department or one of the sales people?
  23. Ricko

    Ricko

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    I'll PM you the details. I don't think it is appropriate to share more on a public forum. No, not a sales person. Monday was a work day for everyone I knew (including my lawyers :) ).

    Ricko
  24. replay11

    replay11

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    Well, there is still hope for E-Frontier and all their content on ContentParadise.com ! Now I'm really eager to hear back from their legal departments. I'm sure they will get back to me sometime tomorrow.
  25. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    I can talk about my experience with DAZ and Renderosity (nothing secret; except the prices that they gave me) : the contents sold there are freely usable for RENDERS or ANIMATIONS; while the geometry can't be modified but you can make textures for the figures and clothes and vehicles).

    Using the 3d model imply that you modify it in some way; and this is what they are trying to avoid, so any DAZ figure came with the restriction that the meshes cannot be used/converted to work in a game, unless you pay a fee to the author and to DAZ (you can save some bucks if you add a credit, but the prices that were flying for getting the authorization for the models are basically out of this world)

    I would igve a try shooting a mail to the DAZ customer service, they are very nice and helpful and you will get an answer fast.....while when you deal with the artist itself the things changes, depending from the artist (some don't even answer, asnwer after months or get even pissed when you ask something; found only 2 good guys and I stick with them LOL).

    If you want to use the figures as demo you could download for free the human project files (man and woman); you can do what you want with these figures except sell them, or you can buy stuff on turbosquid, where you get the contents that you want with the license that let you use the meshes in games too.

    Or free sites...many poser figures and items are available for free with open license; especially on japanese sites ;)

    Hope that this helps....if you get a figure and modify it is much better than trying to adapt a different one everytime, and deal with sales, legal and other stuff like that (and as friendly suggestion never try to sell your DAZ contents that you do not use anymore....delete it and forget about it if you don't use it anymore, unless you wanna get trough a mess lol)
  26. replay11

    replay11

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    Updated News:

    DAZ 3D and Mogware Collaborate to Bring DAZ 3D Content Seamlessly into Game Development Pipelines:

    http://www.daz3d.com/i/corporate/press/daz3d_mogware?id=44_m=d
    ------------
    Pasted from SmithMicro's website...

    New Distributable Content bundled with Poser Pro:

    Poser Pro comes with a set of four re-distributable 3D characters to help users save production time. This set includes a male and female figure in both medium and low resolutions. These professionally modeled 3D characters include facial morph targets to create expressions and visemes to synch with imported sound files in the Talk Designer, plus they are Face Room ready.

    Use these four figures as a starting point and customize them to create your own real-time 3D or game characters. Modify these fully-rigged characters with Poser Pro’s powerful magnet deformers or sculpt detail using the Morphing Tool. Import them into the Face Room and modify their geometry and texture to match your imported facial photographs. When you’re finished, these four figures can be exported via Poser Pro’s many geometry export options including COLLADA, or hosted via PoserFusion plug-ins, and re-distributed for royalty–free use in your project.

    Distributable Content Includes:

    2 Male Figure Versions (LowResMale, MedResMale).
    2 Female Figure Versions (LowResFemale, MedResFemale).
    Developmental OBJ geometry files for all for figures.
    Figures are Face Room ready.
    Figures include facial morphs for expressions and synthesizing speech
    For details refer to the Content License section of the Poser Pro EULA.
  27. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    I have poser pro, and these figures are the one that we were mentioning earlier, from the human project :)

    Now i am waiting...when they will also release V3 or M3, since that the respective V4 versions are out now (and this will be something from DAZ, not smith micro, that acquired poser from curious labs; since the figures are made by DAZ, while smith micro got the rights to use the figures on CP, like Miki, Terai yuki, G2 males and females)

    Hope doesn;t cost a thing :p
  28. roberdan

    roberdan

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    Hi there I know this is a bit old post but I would like a little help , I was experimenting with the possibility to incorporate Poser 8 in the pipeline to create the animated characters, so I made a basic walking animation and exported it with the collada to be opened in C4D and then from there exported in FBX since Poser do hot has a .fbx export apparently and for some reason that the only format one I get to work in unity without problems.

    So I export the animate mesh from Poser but once the collada dialog open the option INCLUDE RIGGING (and preserve animation and pose) is grayed out and not selectable, as a result obviusly the result is that i just get the static mesh in C4D.

    What I am doing wrong?

    Is there another solution to get Poser animation in to fbx format?

    thanks
  29. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    I guess that you cannot export it witout a very expensive plugin.....forgot the name but i remember a c4d/maya/3ds plugin to import figures from poser with all the hierarchy of bones, animations and so on...the price was something like 200 dollars thou.....

    anyway; the poser geometry are not usable in a game for 2 reasons:

    1)is against the copyright and the eula explain it clearly that you can use the figures just for renders or animations, not for games or anything else (including modifying geometry)

    2) the size of these figures is huge.....unless you wanna spend days reducing the poly number you will find yourself with a 2fps game if you add these figures plus whatever background you wanna put them in ;)
  30. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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  31. roberdan

    roberdan

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    The question about models not using it in game seems controversial as in this tread there is both takes, and also Daz3D who use the same models just made the collada export to help for game development this is wrote in thier webiste.

    Anyway for now I just need to see if I can get the animated character from c4d inside unity because I can have them animated inside c4d but then the FBX for some reason do not export animations made with the dials even using simple key frame animations, I have tried any other animations made with c4d classic keyframe like rotation and they export correctly in the .fbx and unity can load them, seems that just the one made with the poser import "interposer" work only inside c4d.

    So for now I have a bunch of tools that dont want to talk with each other and si very frustrating
  32. roberdan

    roberdan

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    Step 1) I create my custom character, prop or scene in Poser.
    Step 2) I import the Poser file inside Daz Studio (Daz Studio fully supports Poser Import)
    Step 3) Using a $99 FBX export plug-in for Daz Studio I export to FBX
    Step 4) Now if I used Poser's walk designer for the walk cycle or imported BVH motion capture files inside Poser then I can just open directly inside Unity otherwise I proceed to Step 5.
    Step 5) Open FBX file in MotionBuilder and animate or apply motion capture data then save again in FBX.
    Step 6) Either open in Maya or Unity.


    So it seems the only way to make this work is to buy YET another plug in in the hope that it work.. bah
  33. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    Indeed is controversial, but the rule of thumb is the eula that came with the models, not the one related to the software; and it stated that the geometry cannot be redistributed, modified or sold in any form, and that the only use possible with the models is inside a render or an animation.

    Poser is a weird beast, so i expect to not have a lot of compatibility with other apps when exporting the models with the bone structure; maybe the best bet, if you don't want to get the exporter that i mentioned, is to export in obj and then rig and do the work in c4d, so you can use it in Unity, but i guess that if you wanna use poser animations, this solution is not feasible.

    I doubt that if you grab the obj, modify it and stick it in your game someone from daz or zygote will sue you; is just a matter of being honest :) i prefer to use crappy stuff made by me, instead of getting the work from someone else for free (unless is free for real)

    anyway; you can check animeeple; they have a nice software and a library of animations that imports perfectly in unity, and the models are free for being used in games (I spoke with them and that;s what they told me); the only thing to do is a nice thanks in the credits for the free models :)

    BTW you need the fbx exporter that cost 10 bucks; then the rest is free....good deal.
  34. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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  35. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    the solution from animeplee cost just 10 dollars, and you can use any model that you create :)

    I dislike daz studio, as clone of poser, but this is just me....
  36. roberdan

    roberdan

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    oh man, I tried that aswell before to post here, do not work mostly crash either incompatible in the import phase, or crash when you try to export anything but the very basic animations applied to the free mesh provided with that program, another 10$ wasted.

    And yes Daz is a clone and honestly all this make for a hell of a weird process and still after all this it doent work.

    I am going to try to see why poser 8 has the collada export but do not export the animation made inside it, as i said the option is grayed I suppose if that worked I could load that collada in any program that support it and then use the fbx to export it for unity but at this point I doubt everything.
  37. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    I had some crash, but then I realized what was i doing wrong, and avoided that action, so in the end now it doesn't crash anymore :) then they have a new build of the software so should be fine.

    for me it works like a charm; just gotta remember to set the names of the joint in the right way, and when exporting, i can import directly in Unity and just adjust the scale :) same for c4d and cheetah 3d; not sure why it doesn't work for you.

    btw the bvh files are supported by animeeple; and another dozilions of apps, so you should not need poser at all; unless you cannot live without their models
  38. roberdan

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    <<darshie, yes it does work but so far I have still prblems often it crash but then again it's free and it's a beta so..


    I have managed to import a bvh made with other software and attach it to one of the basic models inside this program and exported in fbx, it worked sometime it crash but that's ok.

    Now the problem is I want to be able to import in unity some of the modified and animated poser models (there are some lowplygon one who are ok for games as a base) and this is still impossible because even if I can get inside a 3D prgram the poser mesh+animation then the animation is not saved once exported in fbx from c4d I think is because it use the dials and even if they work inside c4d with the plugin they are not recognized as animation when exported, I think poser is a great tool for non professional animators like me if I could make it to do what I need it could be a huge time saver as for license problem right now i dosent concern me has I am still learning and not making a commercial game.
  39. darshie1976

    darshie1976

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    I see, as you pointed out is free and beta, so not too much to worry about :)

    the problem is that poser uses his own way to do the animations (it uses deformers; if i remember correctly the other software that use deformers is cheetah3d); so you cannot expect to get the models out of poser directly with the animation, because the way poser handle the animations.

    this is why i told you that you need a plugin to export to c4d, and this is why the plugin cost money....because it does some work to make possible to use the animations and models in c4d, maya and 3dsmax.

    I understand that you are not concerned about license issues since you do not make commercial games, but the eula is valid even if you make a free game; so you are in the same situation either if you make commercial games or not.

    And in the future, if you want to be concerned about the license, consider that 99% of the products for poser sold on daz or renderosity have the same eula; so i do not get why you wanna spend time to find a way to export figure and animations when you will not be able to use them anyway for any project, other than for your personal satisfaction to say "i did it" :) Anyway mine is just a curiosity, you can do what you prefer with your time; just trying to let you understand that is wasted time :D

    I know that is cool to use poser and import directly in Unity, but this is not what the software was intended to be used for ;)

    I tried to use poser, and after 3 years playing with it,i can tell you that is great for stand alone renders and animations, for pre-viz process using low res figures, and for exporting animations in bvh format; but other than that is not comparable with modelers like c4d, c3d, maya, etc, because they are totally different software.....you would not put a nail in the wall using a wrench, right? :) so for me the usefulness of poser is render and animations, plus when i need animations in Unity i make them in poser and export just the animation in bvh format, but using animeeple now i don;t even have to do that anymore :)

    If you want nice models rigged and working, try to get a software called metasequoia; it works fine and has a lot of models that you can export in obj format and rig them in other software(since you gotta do no matter what, if you obtain models that you wanna use in Unity, unless they are made in a software package that is supported by Unity)

    sorry for the long reply, just want to be sure that we are talking of the same thing here ;)
  40. Truebones

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