MMO Construction Kit

You've brought up this arguement a few times now from people disagreeing with you or criticising you. Are you that insecure?

 

Just wanted to put a plug in for the developer's newly launched website http://www.atavismonline.com. The devs are very responsive on that site's forums, and it is easier to organize questions and answers there, rather than squishing everything into this single thread.

 

+1 and most of the questions asked here are answered there.

 

Kickstarter will be launched on Monday September 9 so be sure to check this thread for posting of it. There will be a special reward in it that will give you access to the Atavism engine early as well as all assets developed for the game worth over $3000 for way less. I will also be on live twitch channel Markee Dragon where you will be able to ask questions directly to me and get your answers.

 

We have just launched our kickstarter Campaign so be sure to be the first in with lots of rewards. There is a developers reward that will be amazing rewards if you are a developer.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neojac/neos-land-a-new-beginning

 

Pledged!

 

Also, corrected link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neojac/neos-land-a-new-beginning

 

Awesome,
you guys just started the kickstarter and already up to 4k. gratz.

got some questions tho,

i see from all the pladges in kickstarter the one for the developers package is the one for $340, is that correct?
so meaning that whoever pledges for this package will have early alpha and beta access for the Atavism online engine server source code too?
will this access be just after the kickstarter ends?

reason i asked is that you guys mentioned here that there was going to be an indie package for around $40 'ish, so i wonder what the kickstarter
$340 developers package includes? or the difference between the one being offered here for around $40 'ish or benefits etc..



also, in the kickstarter page you guys mention one can also pledge outside kickstarter via your website with paypal, but what happens if the kickstarter campaign does not meet the $100k goal? will the ones who pladged outside kickstarter be refunded? or will you guys still give access to them?


BTW , been trying the MaekeeDragon twitch.tv all day , but cant seem to connect to chat and load video feed
"Sorry, we were unable to connect to chat. Reconnecting in xxxxxx seconds. "
and "unable to load video"


thanks

 

I'm pretty sure the $340 price tag is both because of the early access and because you get all of the art assets (current and future) that NeoJac will secure for the engine.

I'm actually surprised there isn't a lower cost reward that would be for later access and maybe exclude the art assets. I'd actually suggest that that be included either as an additional pledge reward to the KS campaign or maybe as an add-on to any pledge. I'm assuming NeoJac could get a lot of additional money on Kickstarter if they did either of those.

 

yeah, $340 is a little bit steep for an individual.
hence asking about the initial $40 'ish price tag they initially quoted in early this thread.

i just hope the $340 includes the server source too, but still little over from what i expected as reading thru this thread. since it was supposed to had extra plugins that will enhance the platform like a basic pack for under $50 and then the extra addons "plugins"

I just hope the $340 is not the basic startup one, meanning one will have to pay for the extra addons or plugins
later on :-(

 

It's possible that some of those plugins will be controlled by another party, such as those who are integrating their existing Unity asset with this MMO client. If that is the case, NeoJac would legally not be authorized to release that sort of plugin for free without the involved party's permission. Similarly, if someone independent of NeoJac develops something to enhance the Unity client, or maybe a set of gaming systems via Python scripting, they would also hold those rights.

At the very least, I would hope that NeoJac gives early adopters access to systems that are developed as part of the game they are releasing--and I think that is the case. The modular housing, skill-based character development, UMA character customization (since UMA is free), seem to be part of the base functionality.

 

Yes modular housing, skill-based character development, UMA character customization (since UMA is free), is part of the base functionality. The Kickstarter Reward is for developers looking at playing the game as well as access to development. We are adding in a set of housing tiles in the game as a add on to that reward as people have asked for that. I will be posting another reward with lower cost for the basic license.

 

Well since many of us will in fact love to play the game but will not be making a fantasy based game so those art assets will not be used, maybe you could set a lower developers level on your own site witch would include the early access and future plugins but not the art. I would love to pay around $100 even if the kickstarter does not make it to you guys for the developers rewards only. Much of the other big kickstarter projects had pledge rewards that were for their site pledges on their site only.

 

The rewards has just been updated on the Kickstarter with Atavism Engine Pledge, you will get access to alpha of the engine as well as asses to the game so you can see the engine in action.

 

is it the $70 Atavism pledge?

estimated delivery 4 months away? does it at least include server source code or just binary?

i just thought by reading on the full thread that it was going to be more accessible then $70, since it will be only the basics, plus later on one needs to pay for extra plugins, so it will end up whole lot more than what this full thread was actually heading, well at least i thought it was heading.

but anyways you guys are the one setting up the price so hopefully you guys rethink it over, or at least give early access and source as the other $340 pledge.

 

Just for perspective, BigWorldTech's indie license is $299 per year, meaning you have to renew for as long as you are using the engine to update your game. And that's just for the binaries; no source.

 

I do have a BigWorld tech license for other project we are working on, BigWorld indie 2.1

there is no source offcourse, but being that the BW commercial is a minimum $400,000 plus dedicated client end server engine for more than 10 years old engine that has been polished all along, plus being a proven mmo engine with more than 12 released commercial titles, and not to mention with its latest multimillion dollar World of Tanks hit which pretty much demostrate how powerfull is the technology,

so is unfair to compare BWT with Atavism server backend plugin for unity. Atavism server does not fall into the category of the big dogs BWT or Hero engine. so again we are not even going to compare Atavism server with the big commercial dogs.

btw, being licensee from BW indie, just a clarification , there is no yearly fees, it is only on paper, you just do a 1 time $299 payment and that is it, they do not charge yearly fees at all, at least not to any of the existing indie licensees holders.

but i guess we are getting off topic here. sorry..

 

No comparison is going to be "fair", and I fully admit that Atavism is unproven. That being said, neither BigWorldTech nor Hero World give customers any of the out-of-the-box functionality and art assets that should be made available via the $340 pledge for the Atavism engine. You can get rights to the Hero World demo game Hero's Journey, including art assets and functionality, for $5000, last I checked. I don't think BWT offers any game "template" for any price.

I'm not sure what your expectations are for what constitutes "accessible", but I don't think $70 for the base engine, even without source code or extra add-ons (beyond base/free gaming systems), is unreasonable by any means, when you look at other options out there. This is an unproven engine, but it promises convenience for non-programmers and hobbyists that is not available in any other solution on the market. Asking for a premium for that sort of convenience is to be expected. You, as a skilled programmer with potentially a team to work with, may not find it worth your money, but there are certainly those of us who do.

I didn't know that BWT didn't hold to the recurring annual fee. It's still not a solution that works for me, as someone with poor programming skills and lacking a full team to implement a game, but I'm glad that the fee is one-time for now, at least.

 

Both HE and BWT have game templates to learn from or use as startup.

HE with hero journeys, you dont need to pay 5k, that is if you want the template as your startup world, but with a clean engine you can use all the code of HJ, you just need to copy and paste it, but if you want to save the time, 5k will save you the copy and paste time.

as for BW there is the fantasy demo template, it pretty much has all the needed basic features as a demo to learn, from there you can enhance it.


but that being aside, here are the facts of Atavism server, they pretty much have all the mmorpg basics as HE and BWT demos, the difference is that this basics i assume have been tailored with the existing server core plus some scripting.
the deal is if one needs to customize the server code may be a road block if no source is available since some features may be already harcoded.
so source is very needed since the game logic is already implemented and some may be hardcoded.
like i said unless you want to do a very similar or clone of the existing game made with Atavism then youll be fine, but most developers looking for a server solution backend would not want that.

but again, we are getting way off topic,

looking forward for OP to answer initial questions regarding source access.

 

Congratulations on a promising start to your Kickstarter campaign!

I'm considering pitching in for the Atavism Pledge. However, I have a few questions:

1) Features - What game features are included with the Atavisim pledge level? Quests? Combat? Trading? Etc. What game features are available at the Developer's Package, that will not be included in the Atavisim pledge level? Are there game features that will be in Neo's Land that will not be included in either package? Can you create a comparison chart to illustrate the above differences?

2) Is this 100% accessible source code? Both client and server? If not, what is customizable and what is closed off? Like others, I'm concerned about this.

3) Can we prospective developers test the game in it's current state before pledging? I understand that this is a Kickstarter and if I was buying it for fun I wouldn't ask this. But since we're talking about a game engine we plan to work with for months (if not years), I think we have a right to try it out before committing to it. Would you be willing to host a multiplayer game for us?

I'm glad someone is finally building a serious MMO kit for Unity. Several have attempted to do so in the past, but they haven't followed through. Let's hope this breaks the cycle.

 

So Confused!

 

We will be adding a direct chat to the website soon where you can chat directly to one of us to help out. There will also be a developer round table next week at some point where we will address some functionality about the package. Feel free to jump into that round table and ask your questions.

 

Thanks for your interest.

On the Atavism Website the licensing should now be available.
1)The Atavism Pledge Level and the developers package are one and the same license you get namely the starter License. Only difference is with the developers package you will also get all assets of Neo's Land that we make available to the unity asset store for free ( estimated worth $3000) if you are not interested in the assets then you just need to get the Atavism Pledge Package. what comes with the starter license is10 Concurrent Users which means up to 10 people can login to your game at one time. This starter package is only intended to allow some development and testing of the package. All of the server code is compiled, with exception to configuration files. This build allows for developers to quickly develop a MMO within Unity3D by using the GUI (Graphical User Interface) like changing values for skills and so forth.It also includes: Chat, Quests, Skill System, Basic Combat, Pets, Mob Spawning, Factions, and more to come. Basically you can make a MMORPG game with it and when you launch your game you can upgrade to next license if you are getting more than 10 people in it at any given time.

2) the next license up allows you to add customization script plugins if you want to code anything specific to make your game different. You will also be able to sell those plugins and generate money from them if others are looking for that.

3) We will be doing a tutorial video showing how we integrate it into the Boot Camp demo assets and then have it available online for you to test, it might only be in another week or two before that is available though. But will get it done before the Kickstarter ends.

 

So, this means that both pledges in the Kickstarter campaign only allow you to have up to 10 concurrent users and no ability to script plugins, correct?

How much does the next license up cost? What is the concurrent user limit for that license?

I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed that the starter license is so limited. If the next license up is inordinately expensive, my interest in the kit will drop significantly.

 

Yikes,
I dont think this guys intention were to sell their server multiplayer plugin with unity community at all. they were probably teasing the community


so here is in short fellow unity communit members:

- - Atavism Pledge a $70 starter package - -
no source, up to 10 concurrent users allowed to login at any given time (WHAT????), no game assets, no ability to expand the game play logic even via scripting or plugins, so merely just a very expensive restricted/blackbox trial or demo to get the feel of it? for $70 ????
and you have to wait 4 months for delivery.

- - developers package a $340 - -
still no source, up to 10 concurrent users allowed to login at any given time, no ability to expand the game play logic even via scripting or plugins, but with neoland game models which will be the difference. expected delivery Oct 2013

-- unknown license up, $??? license price---
will still no source code, but will let you create server side plugins, assuming more than 10 concurrent users allow to login at any given time to the game.



-- What ever happened to:

with the restriction from the $70 starter package, i just cant think of more restricted package to give away.



---or maybe you guys changed you minds for the package deals and you thought free was no option so later you put a price tag on the starter package:

----

not sure about the affordable initial plan for unity developers....


Well, despite the initial plan for Ativision server to bring an affordable mmo solution for unity indie devs, looks like they have changed their plan and maybe this plan is no more, it sure looks like it. unless there is a sublime message there to make the unity devs to move on to other option for server backend solution


it sure feels like a big disappointment for all who have been following this thread, that makes Smartfox, photon, ulink look like very feasible solution to start looking for, even for the mother of commercial mmos game engine BigWorld engine indie at $299 license.

offcourse the none coders will have to start learning at least a little to understand and implement their own stuff. still to create a game one still needs to know how to code, this is inevitable to create a game of your own and unique.

such a petty this has come down to this, myself was quite excited to lay my hand to avoid all the initial server side basics coding, but it sure looks like been deceived by the existing plans and restricted features.

ohh well, time to move on :-(

I just wish the best to the developers of Ativism, hopefully they realize they are driving future devs interested on this server away by the way they are doing this initial starter campaign.

 

The next license up from the starter license is an additional $125. We have decided to change the two licenses for the pledges as we do want testers on both, so if you get the Developers Rewards you will receive the starter License and teh next one up from that the Veteran license.You will also get all assets made for Neo's land that goes on the asset store for free. This is a huge deal. The Atavism Reward Pledge will only have the starter license. One thing to remember is we charge no royalties on top of this where other companies like BigWorld and Hero Engine does a 10-20 royalty which is allot of money if your game is successful. Also you will get allot of feature added plugins as we develop more.

Here is a link to how our licensing works.

Atavism Licenses

 

FYI, the link does not work. That page is not open to the public, it looks like.

Thank you for reconsidering. I am still on the fence at this stage, but I will need to see how the license tiers work and get more information before the Kickstarter campaign is over. It's too bad that the Twitch roundtables are during the day for those of us in the Americas, since I work.

I would consider expanding the starter license's concurrent user limit. Exit Games' Photon server has a free license for up to 100 concurrent users. Ten seems far too restrictive, especially when you consider the basic Unity server functionality can accommodate many more than that (either 32 or 64, I think?). I understand that Photon does not come with much in the way of gaming systems, although it does have MMO-related plug-ins, such as interest management.

 

Sorry just found out the page is still offline so fixing that.

Here is the basic licensing:

NeoJac offers the following licenses for Atavism. Licenses are determined by the number of concurrent users (users online at the same time) participating with the platform. Licenses can be upgraded as your game's success improves. This allows for a "pay as when you need it" and not have to worry about those royalty percentages riding on your efforts.

The Base Build License will be purchased at the Unity3D Store.
All other licenses will be purchased here. Each license is an upgrade, of which must be paid separately.

STARTER LICENSE $45 (USD)

100 Concurrent Users
This code will be purchased at the Unity3D Store and is required for all of the other licenses. All of the server code is compiled, with exception to configuration files. This build allows for developers to quickly develop a MMO within Unity3D by using the GUI (Graphical User Interface).
Base Build Licenses includes: Chat, Quests, Skill System, Basic Combat, Pets, Mob Spawning, Factions, and more to come.

VETERAN LICENSE + $120 (USD)

450 Concurrent Users
The Veteran Build License allows for customization of the Atavism Information Game System (AGIS) files; however, the Core Server Files are compiled. Developers will be able to provide some uniqueness and greater flexibility to their games.
More information for packages will be provided at a later time.

EXPERT LICENSE + $235 (USD)

1500 Concurrent Users
The Expert Build License is of the Veteran Build, but with up to 1,000 Concurrent Users.

LEGENDARY LICENSE + $600 (USD)

Unlimited Concurrent Users

FULL SOURCE CODE Contact Us

 

Thanks for your suggestion, we will be upping it to 100 concurrent user limit for the starter license. That would be a good start for a company then. Also others will be upped as well.

 

Great news! Looking forward to more information in the coming days.

 

now, this is more like it, i thought you guys were letting it get it up to your heads, or definitely changed your minds releasing the server backend to the unity community by making very unattractive packages.


but one question tho:

will this be available to purchase right away as of now? and expect delivery right after purchase? or will it be available after the kickstarter campaign? or will have to wait 4 months after that or next year?

will appreciate if you guys give a certain response about this.

thanks

 

Looking forward to this.

 

Rule of Thumb,
Don't work on websites when near exhaustion...

The License page is available now, had a permission issue with the menu.

And see, we do listen.

 

Yup, very glad to see how the decisions turned out.

Here's the updated link. (The one that cookimage linked above is not the same.)

http://www.atavismonline.com/home/root/technology/licenses

 

Pass lol

 

Thank you for responding to my questions. The licensing terms sound fair and competitive to me. I'll be most likely getting a Starter license and (assuming that I can grok it) a Veteran soon after.

I'm not too concerned about the server code being closed. It sounds like Atavism Information Game System (AGIS) files allow for customization. Are they written in Java, Python or a custom scripting language? Sounds like there will be a tutorial coming and I can find out.

My concern about closed source is more on the client-side, which I'm still confused about. Is the client you are showing us in these videos included with the Starter license or are we supposed to build our own client from scratch? I'm not talking about the art, just the client-side scripts. BTW: are they C# or Unityscript?

The Bootcamp test sounds fun. Looking forward to it!

 

Nice Questions
I would like to know if we can upgrade after we purchase(pay the difference)

 

Yes. That is the goal of the pricing structure. Basically, you could start out with the Starter License, play around with it, drum up some interest in your game, then when you are ready, upgrade your license. Other MMO server platforms, such as Photon and Electroserver, follow a similar model.

 

These are great prices. Does this all include updates to the server? I mean will we get all the fixes and updates to the basic server as you work on it further? If so then this is a great deal. Just looking around at the other mmo solutions out there this one looks to be much better since I have not seen any long term compensation beyond the purchase price.

 

That includes all updates and fixes yes

 

so , when will these prices be available to purchase?

 

i want to buy now the 45 $

 

Unfortunately those prices are only available on release of the kit which is in December, at this stage you can get the $70 Atavism reward pledge on Kickstarter which will give you early Alpha access and the $340 Developers Package which will give you early Alpha access as well as all assets we put in Unity from the game Neo's Land. Both these deals will also give you access to the alpha of the game so you can see the engine in the works.

 

So will the assets not be available after the kick starter

 

@cookimage

Could you please answer my questions regarding the client? Are client-side scripts provided with the Atavism reward pledge or are they "assets" to be bought later?

 

but the $70 Atavism reward pledge is still "estimated deliver for December 2013", unless you guys will update the early access to it for after the kicksatrter on Oct 9th.

can you please confirm that? if not then it does not make sense to pay for $70 pledge and still receive in Dec. and not early in Oct. 9th

also can you please clarify what will the $70 Atavism reward pledge package include?
will it include the same as STARTER LICENSE $45 (USD) features?
or any other in between.

will appreciate if you can post more specs on the Atavism reward pledge.
thank you

 

All clinet side cripts are provided as they are intergraded into the UI we have for changing stuff like skill veriables and so forth. The assets that come with the Tier 2 License in the Developers Package is assets like models and so forth. Those will be free as we release them to the asset store. With the two packages on the Kickstarter you will get the client and server, other assets that come with the Developers package will be released as we release them to the store.

 

Thanks for that feedback, the reward delivery date has been changed, should have been October similar to the Developers package and yes its the same features as the $45 Starter License except you get early access.

 

thank you,

one more thing if you dont mind to answer,

is there any way you can post here the current engine features/specs that will be available in Unity client and Atavism server in the early access in Oct?
ie: quest system, chat , etc.....

and the features planned for completed by Dec release.

something like road map

that way we will know exactly what to expect in the kit if early alpha in Oct or Dec release


also are you guys going to add the ATAVISM PLEDGE purchase option via paypal in your neosland.com website,

i dont seem to see it there.


thanks

 

Thank you for answering my questions! This is the information I was looking for.