Looking for a cost estimate. How much would it cost to make this?

The file is a design document for the proposed changes for my game. They have links to the mockup as well.

I am trying to create a lean design without compromising too much depth. My goal is balance between cost-effectiveness and gameplay depth.

I would like feedback from game devs that have already finished a few projects with Unity.

Thank you for your time.

 

*conjures a kettle of popped corn*

 

infinity dollars.

I like that you even started a design document but you need to break down tasks and break down what you actually want to get a price of how much something will cost. You basically just gave a small description of your game and asked "how much dev time will this take, how much art, and how many resources" that's unrealistic.

 

Put the project up on freelancer.com and see what kind of bids you get. Either that or post it here in the Commercial section. Very few people here are going to go through a whole game design document and lay out a price. That's a ton of work, going over everything, calculating costs, etc. for a job that might not even be on the table.

 

OK I don't think your design document gives an overview of the game mechanics or art style, these nuts and bolts are the thing that allow people to estimate development times. Ideally you would provide an overview of the game mechanics/rules, unit types and variety of units and their art styles. 2D/3D isometric ect.

This information would then allow people to think about how many meshes/animations/textures/graphics/sound effects/music tracks and scripts are needed to make the game. Also as these components of your game require different skills you should in theory ask people with relevant skills to give you an estimate, e.g. programmers, graphics artist, 3d modelling/animators, sfx artists/musicians.

Another useful way to design is to build use cases, this is where you put the user hat on and think about what you would have to do to play the game.

Or you could use an iterative approach and prototype towards your desired game. You have to realise that it sometimes takes an iterative and playful prototyping approach to maximise the fun in your game.

However I think with the modern UI in unity 4.6+ you could probably get a basic prototype of your game working in a few days, ideally you would refine that over a week or two then you would have a better understanding of what would be needed to complete your game.

 

Does the game already exist somewhere in some form that we can see?

Or, what progress have you made in the 4 years since your successful kickstarter for this project? And if you've been working on it for this long why is your design document only 600 words?

This feels bizarre.

 

I never asked how much art or resources. Those are things i'll take care of myself.

 

A straightforward mobile game along these lines would be $50k as a rough estimation - I'm assuming a standard level of bells and whistles as the GDD is very basic. This number can change depending on the exact features needed, the level of polish etc. Of course, this number gets a game made and into the store, getting players to play it, improving it etc all adds up as well.

To reduce cost it comes down to two things:

1. Working with your developer to remove costly, not absolutely required features.
2. Letting your artists have a little more creative control.
3. And the big one many indies do - scrape the bottom of the barrel for any saving possible, including putting in own hours, hiring novices, trying to get people to work collaboration etc. This translates your time into money... with various levels of success.

 

Well you gave us a vague question, and you've basically answered some parts of your question...

You know
Art Resources = $0
Now finish the rest...

 

Yu r a Jean yes.

 

Spot on. There's a lot of work that goes in between "having a description of the thing" and "having a time and cost estimate to build the thing". No professional will start on that work without some serious validation that there's money on the table at the other side.

 

I discussed in the document why it wasn't necessary to disclose all of the game mechanics, rules, unit types, variety of units and art style. These are things i will take care of myself. Simple place holders will do.

I already have an artist and audio engineer. This document is for programming only.

I have a web demo for it hosted in the server of the contractor that created it, but it went down on the 4th. He said he would have it up again by Wednesday.

Here's a report of the progress from the last 4 years. I'm now where the report ended. I now have a lucrative job to fund the development of the game, but i have had delays because i haven't found a reliable and responsible contractor to do the programming. Every other member of the team is on board; the artist and an audio engineer. There has been lots of time wasted with programmers from freelancer sites that take on the project, complete one milestone, get paid and then move on to pick the low-hanging fruit in some other project. I have learned that the design can affect cost and development time, which is why i decided to make a few changes to the design document in an attempt to make it leaner, more cost effective and faster to develop (like taking out the AI, Friend List, etc).

I'm already taking care of the bells and whistles (assuming you speak of game materials, units, art, UI, audio, etc) and i will take care of the polish later. I just need an estimate for this game engine and not anything extra aside from what it's in the design document.

 

Just put it on Elance or Freelancer, and take a look at the bid.

Then multiply that by 50 and you have the actual cost of getting it finished.

You'll need to add a bit more if you expect it to actually get to market.
And add a little more if they want to market it in any meaningful way.

 

I just had a quick look at your GDD, and it's not enough for a programmer to know what you expect from them. If a potential client handed this to me at work I'd consider it a great start for workshopping the idea further. If this is what you've been using as a spec for hiring programmers, though, I can understand why you've not managed to get anything useful out of them - anyone with significant experience should have helped you flesh this out before getting started.

 

Then as a general rule of thumb expect between $10k and $20k for programming. Bells and whistles include the assets you talked about, but also many small 'must haves' clients tend to ask for - like facebook login, high scores, IAP, achievements etc.

The best thing you can do to bring that cost down is:

A) Really work out exactly what you need - build storyboards - lots of them - and go over them like they are the real app.
B) Work with a quality developer and use their expertise to prioritise functionality:

(Thanks XKCD)
​

I'd also note there's a big difference between 'having assets' and 'having usable assets that empower your programmer'. If you don't manage that process well, it can cost a fortune.

 

*munches popcorn*

So far, so good. I'm waiting for the crazy twist, though.

 

Ok, so what is it missing? What do you recommend i do?

The app doesn't include any of that except IAP. I'm looking to know how much is it to create the game engine as it is, but i do know that i will need to pay for many iterations and additions, but right now i just want to know how much would it cost me to get the core version off the ground.

I did do the story board, then i used the panels to create the mock up and then put links to it in the design document.

Do you know how/where to find these mythical beasts known as "quality developers"?

I love this.

​

How can i manage that process well?

 

10k to 20k for what's in the design document?

I don't think so. It looks like it is as basic and minimalist as possible so he has a base to work off and I don't see 10k to 20k worth of programming in that.

Of course it's not very detailed so I can't really give a quote, but generally when I see things like this it's easy to get the idea of what the person is trying to accomplish and what they expect.

Content on the other hand for a game like this, yeah, that's going to cost.

 

Looking through your game design doc, it's just some simple ideas with no real info that a developer would need to know. Assuming you have the rest of the info available, you should really be sharing that in this thread since you're asking how much it will all cost. Without knowing the details, it's absolutely impossible to come up with an accurate cost for what you're looking for.

 

Usually by having a good project manager. Someone who understands both the art and programming sides of it, even if they're not experts at either. They can facilitate communication between the programmer(s) and artist(s) to ensure the artists know the constraints and requirements for the assets and that the programmers are doing their job. I've seen many times where artists who aren't familiar with game assets will deliver great looking, but totally inappropriate assets. Things like rigs that make no sense in a game that is planning on using runtime IK, rigs with far too many bones when they are not needed, whole scenes using huge 16k baked textures instead of tiling textures, characters with 16 different texture maps, texture maps with black backgrounds leading to seems when mipmapping kicks in, and hundreds of other potential pitfalls. Having someone with experience managing whole projects and not just certain aspects will save you a lot of time and heartache.

It sounds like you might be wanting to take on this duty yourself. That's fine if you have a decent understanding of the whole process. If not, then it might be best to farm out the project to a studio who already has the proper personnel, are used to working together and know how to get it from idea to implementation.

You'll also need to get more specific. Saying that you want to be able to sell trade tokens for real money is fine, but the programmer is really going to need to know what APIs he's going to have to implement. Initially you say Facebook only, so it would use the Facebook Payments APIs. But you plan to expand to other platforms, so you'll need to ensure that the programmer is aware of this so he can write a clean and well documented abstraction layer for handling payments from different payment processors, and a single implementation for Facebook Payments. He may not be available when you add in other payment methods (Paypal, Kongregate, whatever). The new programmer is going to have to figure out what is going on to add new payment methods, so it will save time and money in the first place if there's a well documented API in place and he doesn't have to replace any existing code, just plug in new code.

You'll also need to store game state somewhere (who is playing who, who's turn it is, positions of the pieces, pieces in reserve, army composition, etc). This is going to require some server side programming, and likely someone familiar with system administration to configure and manage the servers. If you're lucky the programmer you find will be able to do both. If not then the backend and frontend programmers will need to coordinate with each other to ensure the game can talk to the game servers. Server side programmer will have to coordinate with system administrator to ensure the correct libraries/dependencies/software/etc is installed and configured on the servers.

I could probably go on for hours, but the tl;dr version is: At this point it doesn't look like you should be looking for a programmer, it looks like you should be looking for a project manager who knows the right questions to ask and can help flesh out your idea into a complete and detailed game design doc. He can help you come up w/ asset specifications, high level requirements for the programmers, etc. Everyone will be much happier when they know exactly what they have to do. Nothing frustrates programmers or artists more than having to redo work because the requirements weren't clear or were changed because they weren't thought out completely before they were given assignments.

 

For me, the cost isn't going to decrease any further until *I'm* confident that *you* know what you want in terms that I can deliver on. Think of it this way, in my head I'm quoting 25% actual implementation time, 25% helping you plan it out/project management, 50% contingency because of client risk. That means, there is potentially 75% savings there, if the client is willing to work it over.

You've got a basic idea... you've not got a game. Since you're gdd states:

This version of Tribal Pride will be played manually.
No computer enforced moves will take place and players are responsible for enforcing the rules, just like in physical board games.

How about you do the following - build the game out of paper and cardboard?

If you want to splurge, do it in color and laminate it! Heck if you have to pay strangers $20 to test out your game. 100 paid tests would only cost $2000 plus your time, but by the end of it you've potentially removed $15000 of risk and uncertainty... and have iterated your game so much to actually have something people want to play!

Assuming you take two hours per person (1 hr to test, 1hr to develop/setup/reflect/iterate) you're effectively paying yourself up to $75/hr.

Yep, it's a big part of my job... and it's tough. Right now I can't think of good checklist so I'll pass on this.

Hire a project manager, or spend a lot of time and money learning. I used other peoples money, which helped.

The easiest way to learn how to complete a big project IMO is to first learn how to make a smaller project. Build Hangman.

Nope, that quote is for what I think the client actually wants. It'd be broken down into milestones, and I'd be giving the same kind of advice I'm giving here (make storyboards, test it out with users) to give them the choice to spend my time or theirs.

 

In the case that you were talking about his end-product costing probably 10k - 20k in programming, then yeah, that'd probably be a little more accurate of a quote.

 

What details do you need to determine a cost?

I'm asking how much is it to do the part of the game that is described in the design document, not total coast to complete the game out of beta. I just need to know the cost of building this minimal functional core.

There's no money for a project manager and no one wants to do the "garage band" thing, everyone wants money now. I have $3k/month to spend and that's most of what I make on my job. I'm not a AAA studio. A project manager is not an option.

Yes, but doesn't creating code that is ready for expansion cost more initially in both time and money (i understand that it saves more in the long run, but i can't afford to plan on the long run right now.)

OK, I see. So hire a project manager to help me plan the project, and then hire a programmer. I thought I had to keep them on the payroll and not a one time fee.

There's no "other people's money" for me. I have to go out there and get it myself.

I have already playtested the game in physical form. I didn't spend any money on it. I used wargaming figurines and a chess board and blank flashcards. The playtesters were random people in game/comic book stores.

I already had a web demo and people responded well, but it was hosted on the contractor's server and now that server is down.

 

Usually asking for additional details beyond what you've given doesn't really work since it needs to kind of "flow" as most details will require additional questions and so on.

The only way I'd be able to determine a cost is with a phone call or a game you can point to and say "Pretty much like this except with X & Y changes" (which in your case seems to be chess).

 

There's a game called Desperate Gods created with Unity which is completely manually operated. It's open source and even has its own GitHub and everything. I suppose that is similar on top of being similar to Chess.

 

An exact replica of that game in terms of programming would be around 1k - 2k. It doesn't really seem similar though to what you want, the only similarity seems to be it's manually operated and on a board.

 

Ok, so besides the manual operation, there's the database for the pieces and to save armies and games, the Done Button thing, the trade thing and then the trade tokens. How much is it to develop these features?

 

If it's what you said in the game design docs where you don't want to see the other players mouse at real time etc...5k or so.

Most of the cost wouldn't be the game itself, but rather the trade system etc.

 

It can be a little more work, but not much and it really should be done this way even if you never want to support any other payment methods. The main thing is that you realize it should be done this way in the first place and make sure to ask for it. A good coder would design it this way in the first place since it makes testing easier if the internal and external interfaces are separated. But you should specify it anyways in case they wouldn't have decoupled them otherwise. And this is just a single instance

Ideally he'd stay on for the whole project to keep everything running smoothly, but yeah, at the very least you need to get someone in who has experience and can help you plan and navigate around the common pitfalls. It's totally possible that you could find a coder who could also act as a project manager and help you with the planning and documentation before they start writing any code, but that can have its own drawbacks.

 

The trade system and database are the most costly things?

How long should a project like this take?

Ok, thank you for the advice.

 

Weeks?

 

I'm offering 3 days prototyping/development for free - http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/allan-rowntree-unity-c-game-developer.221958/#post-1710511

PM me if you're interested.

Note: limited to Unity 4.x development but Pro version.

 

You have an interest in making and building games. You need money. If you could somehow combine the two, then you'd be learning how to make and build games on some-one elses money. See my signature? I sure as heck didn't bankroll it!

So wait a second, you've sat down and completely played this game through with multiple people, heck you've even had a web demo up and running - and yet this is what you give us to make a quote on:



To put it into perspective - here is approximately $10 worth of drafts I did when considering building a pro bono charity app:

 

Well, for starters... consider how you expect your programmer to implement the rules for your pieces. You've said in there not to expect to be told what the pieces do. How do you expect someone to build something when you won't describe what it is that they're building? What do you want them to do, guess? You're paying for their time, why do you choose to waste it?

What do I recommend you do? Find a professional and workshop the concept with them, just like I said I'd do if I were on the receiving end. For what it's worth, I recommend you find someone with game design experience as well as software development experience, because from what's in the document I'm not confident that your game is as well thought out as you think it is, and you want to work on it with someone who can separate design concerns from implementation concerns.

 

How many weeks, like 60 weeks?

I am trying to combine the two the best i can; I go out and work to raise funds for game dev. I'm not lucky enough to have someone else to give me money and bankroll my projects.

I had more panels than that.

I don't want to hire someone to make my game, i can do that myself. I just need someone to build the means into which i can build the game on.

Ok, I'll look for that. Thank you for the advice.

 

Except you cannot do it yourself or you wouldn't be hiring programmers, artists, etc. You already have the means into which you can build a game. Unity is among the easiest platforms for building games that are not simple cookie-cutter games. If you cannot handle the basics of developing a game in Unity, then frankly you are going to have to hire someone else.

 

About two give or take a week I'd say.

You'll definitely still need some kind of long term support.

 

This thread is confusing. You're asking how much for someone to make a game for you, and then you say you don't need someone to make a game for you. From your last comment, it appears that you are looking for someone to make an engine for you. A very specific, customized engine. As Ryiah points out above me, just use Unity. If you know what you're doing then there you go.

It's frustrating, to be honest, to see someone in here who got Kickstarted 4 years ago and is still not even any where close to even starting on the game. In that time you could have learned how to do it yourself, had the game done, and moved on to others. And yes, I read your blog where you said that it wasn't worth it for you to learn how to do that. Tell that to everyone else here who is doing that very thing.

Kickstarted 4 years ago. Unreal. That's a great example of why a lot of people stay away from Kickstarter now. And people who have real games, who have the real ability to make those games, don't get funded, while this did. I'm honestly baffled. You asked a question here, got a bunch of answers, but yet you still aren't happy with what people are telling you. Stop wasting people's time (and your own). You want to make a game? Figure out how to do it and do it, or figure out how to hire someone else to do it. What you're asking for is not going to happen for the apparently super low amount of money you're able to spend on it. It just isn't. Sorry.

And... apologies for this post sounding mean, but sometimes people need to be shaken up a little to see the real path they might supposed to be on. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to wake you up a bit.

Fourteen years ago I didn't know how to program. I had been an artist\musician in the game industry for about 5 years when I quit to start my own business. I'd scored a huge art\assets contract and that allowed me a bit of freedom. After I finished that contract, I wanted to make my own things and didn't know how. I kept trying to use existing game engines to fit everything in (Half Life engine, Monster Truck Madness engine, etc.), but that never worked. Sure, I knew how to do art and music, but coding... erk, I hadn't programmed since I was 12 on my TRS-80 CoCo.

Eventually I realized if I wanted to do it I just needed to do it. So, I started programming an add-on for an existing game in Visual Basic. I didn't know what I was doing, so I got books, read web sites, etc. and worked my way through. It took me 6 months to finish, and then it went on to make me $20,000+ over a fairly short period of time. That led to other projects, and now fourteen years later I am still at it, making games, releasing one every two years or so, I know several programming languages, I work from home, and I make a damn good living creating games.

Just do it. Stop making excuses. Learn how to do it yourself, because that is the ONLY way you will succeed in this dream of yours.

Best of luck to you.

 

Correct, you had one more. So... 4 less that what I put together on a whim. But that wasn't what I was pointing out.

I was pointing out the difference in detail, with yours all I see is some white squares with some rough idea's stated. With these (again, $10 mockups) you can immediately get a feel of how the app will look and work without even reading a single line of text. We've got comments explaining on design decisions etc. This version doesn't have it, but if we had gone any further we'd have had lines explaining flow for *every single transition*.

I recently redesigned the UI of one of my clients. It had ~18 screens, which we mocked up 1:1 scale 5 times (each time after reviewing with the UI developer, the client and a programmer) scale before settling on - the document that kept these was 18725 × 10296 pixels.

Then we tried half a dozen different stylings before settling on a theme and created painstaking examples of what every screen should look like.

Then, and only then did we hand the new screens off to a developer to be implemented.

Now, and I want to make this clear, you do not have to do any of this. Just keep in mind that you will be paying through the nose either for someone else to do this for you, or in inefficiencies in the development process.

 

Which even if you do not, there are more than enough resources for learning, assets to ease the process such as PlayMaker and Shader Forge, etc that there is no excuse for the OP's lack of progress.

A project with no initial progress, even something as simple as a prototype of the gameplay with primitives, is a very good sign that the project will not be successful.

It isn't merely Kickstarter. He also had an Indiegogo page. It amazes me that three people were willing to invest $800.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lutopia/tribal-pride-an-effin-awesome-ancient-history-game
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tribal-pride-show-your-pride-represent-your-tribe

 

I can make the game myself, what i can't do myself is the game engine described in the design doc in a timely manner. I have money, but not time.

I only asked how much it would cost to make the game engine in the design doc. I made it clear in the design doc that it was not a game, but a game engine that i would later use to build the game with.

The game engine described is beyond my abilities with Unity, hence looking for someone that does have the skills to build it for me. I don't have time to learn Unity upto a professional level, I have 3 jobs.

I did get started on the game. It ran for a few weeks before Facebook changed their API and the programmer refused to update it even though he promised he would. He also promised to fix crippling bugs and finally to return my money for failure to deliver. None which ever came to pass.

I could have gotten a job and made money to pay someone to do it or i could've been homeless and have all the time i needed to be good enough with Unity to make the game. I chose not to be homeless.

Actually, i am happy with the advice and feedback provided by the participants of this thread.

I am figuring out how to do it. This thread is part of that process.

What super low amount of money are you talking about?

The mock up contains 4 panels. Why do you think it's only 2 panels?

Your app is much more complex than mine. Mine doesn't require that much detail, i will add detail to it later.

I, too, have gone through many iterations of this design. This is my latest and i hope that this is finally the last one that would allow a minimal, but functional, version of the game to be available for my playtesters.

 

Unity is more than capable of being the game engine you need. You simply chose not to learn it.

You've had four years. All you have to show for it is a game design document that is nowhere near sufficient to develop a finished product. How long is later? Ten years?

 

It's 1:40AM where I am, and I'm standing here at my desk (yay for standing desks!) working. On my game. I've been standing here for the past four months, from 10:00AM until around 2:00AM, every day, without letup, to finish my game. I take an hour for lunch, and maybe an hour to watch a show with my wife, and then I'm back at it. She is, too. We work together. I also take the occasional brain break and come here to the forum for a few minutes.

It takes a LOT of work to make a game. But you have to do it. Or you have to have a LOT of money to have someone else do it for you. Find the time to do it. Stop making excuses. That's all they are. Work on your game every day for 30 minutes. That's more than you're working on it now. At some point, you'll finish it, and you'll be glad, and a smile will cross your face, and the world will sigh, and you can say "I did it."

 

I work 3 jobs. My main job is working 14 days in a row, 12 hours a day, outside exposed to elements while handling heavy iron equipment in a filthy and noisy environment that has already caused hearing loss...

...and then there are the bad days.

My 2nd job is building stages for concerts, shows and conventions.

My 3rd job I just got, which is being a driver for Uber.

I'd like to know when do I have the time to study programming professionally. Please tell me because i sure can't find it.

It had initial progress and two prototypes.

Sorry, but I'm not going to abandon my Kickstarter promise. I said i would deliver and i have gone through lengths that normal Human beings will not go through in order to deliver and deliver i will.

I'll send you a PM when it's up and running

Which is why i will not abandon the project as you and the other nay-sayers wish me to do.

I do not take their contributions lightly.

 

Why are you having to maintain three jobs? It could very easily be necessity but I've often seen people who do so simply so they can maintain their life style.

If possible I'd recommend moving into a lower cost area. Housing in my area, for example, is regularly in the hundreds of thousands. Yet when I checked other states the cost of housing was easily within the five digit range. Granted we're talking houses built in the early 1900s, but I've seen houses as cheap as $25,000 in Nebraska.

Internet is always a fun thing to deal with, but Nebraska had wireless (flat plains, no trees, makes for a good signal) internet and reasonably easy to navigate roads. If you don't mind the very cold winters and occasional tornadoes gobbling up your neighbor's house, it wouldn't be a bad place.

There are developers on these forums that spend time during the night, getting less sleep than they should, solely because they wish to develop their game.

There are some who develop while commuting on trains or carpools because they cannot do so any other time. Some people develop during their lunch period.

Some of us are lucky to have hours every day to develop our game and others are fortunate if they can find an hour or two of free time each week to develop.

 

Ok, how much time do i need to make this prototype within 2-4 months, as a professional programmer could?

That is all i have to show for now because of contractors without integrity who keep breaking promises, but alas, i will not let that deter me from delivering on my Kickstarter promise.

The full game might take 10 years, I don't know and i will worry about that later. All i need right now is a minimal viable product for my backers and playtesters. And also, "full game" is a tricky term, since i plan on keep on iterating and expanding the game et infinitum, not unlike some collectible card games.

Ok, how do you pay your bills?

I could find time to do it by compromising and gambling my future. I don't know if my game will make any money and as such it would be foolish to invest time on it hoping it does, when it would be better spent making money at a job.

30 minutes a day and a what point will i finish it, in 20 years? I don't want to run a game company as a hobby to kill time, i want to run a game company so i can pay my bills doing something i love.

 

I make games. Go back and read the stuff I added to my post up above that you responded to. I have a feeling you responded before I finished my edited addendum.

 

To generate funds for game dev.

I'm staying with a friend that wants to help me out on this and as a result I do not pay any rent or bills (except my car, groceries and toiletries) . This allows me to stretch my surplus and inflate my monthly game dev budget to $3,000.

I need to get appropriate sleep and be "fit for duty, fit for task". It is a safety issue since all three of my jobs require alertness. The circumstances of ignoring is greatly risking getting hurt, maimed or even killed.

...and how long will it take to create a full game on such trickle time?

 

You release one of your games every 2 years?