iPhone OS4 today

Discussion in 'iOS Development' started by maxfax2009, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. kakapo

    kakapo

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    what are you talking about? ...removing mono...? :p

    mono is one of unity's biggest strengths. if they get rid of mono then they can say goodbye to all their non-hardcore-programmer customers. which for sure are quite a lot. it would be totally against the philosophy (democratize game development, take the pain out of game development,...) they state everywhere on their website.

    i am sure that they won't get rid of mono. maybe there will be a non-mono iphone version but this also won't be very attractive anymore for many people.
  2. cmonkey

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    Which engine would you use that is already compliant
    with apple's TOS? Oolong? SIO2 may use Lua, which
    may be suspect under the current Apple OS4 beta TOS.

    If Apple gets tough with their TOS, unfortunately,
    Apple will frown on Mono. Hopefully Apple will have
    a change of heart. But given the choice between
    "a non-mono iphone version" and no Unity iPhone,
    would you really prefer "no Unity iPhone"?

    Would you use Oolong instead? Cocos2d?

  3. RobbieDingo

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    Sorry, but I'm going to have to pull you up on that double-negative there. If you haven't got nothing free, then you must have had something.

    It's a pet hate thing.
  4. kakapo

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    yes, i would evaluate oolong and sio2. i have no problem with a blender pipeline. or maybe i even would work on a simple engine on my own (with bullet and maybe the iphone version of ogre). if i already have to work with c/c++/obj-c anyway then this step also isn't that big anymore.

    by the way... i haven't looked into this yet but doesn't unity pro already have a c++ interface? can't this be used to do full games?
  5. Eric5h5

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    Nope. It has plugin support, where you can potentially use C++ to write plugins.

    Nope.

    --Eric
  6. cmonkey

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    Hi kakapo,

    Personally, I'd prefer a Mono Unity iPhone
    to a non-mono Unity iPhone. But I'd also strongly
    prefer a non-mono Unity iPhone to no Unity iPhone at all

    I've started to look at Oolong, but the documentation
    directory contains literally 10 lines of terse text.
    Unity has a bit more documentation than Oolong ...
    :)

    However, if Unity iPhone disappears, I would
    certainly strongly consider Oolong.


  7. Lka

    Lka

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    :D
    Ok.. so.. "I haven't got anything free from my gov."
    Is that better?
  8. kakapo

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    i think a non-mono unity would also make the webplayer impossible. c/c++/obj-c are unsafe languages that can't easily be sandboxed.
  9. codinghero

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    Sorry, I missed that response before. Yeah, the gov was giving out $50 vouchers for digital tuners. You call or mail them and they send you the vouchers. Then you go to the store with your voucher and they give you a digital tuner. There was a limit of two or three per household. My parents got three or four, but I gave them one of mine because I didn't need them.
  10. galent

    galent

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    If that kind of change were necessary to become compliant, I think it would be a iPhone specific thing. Besides Mono is c++ (right?), and supports c++, so is it too hard of a stretch to just implement c++ as the dev language for iPhone, and simply add the missing c# APIs as libraries for backward compatibility?

    Oh, and ISO standard C++ can't be boxed, but ISO compliant vendor specific implementations can be as boxed as you like :)

    Cheers,

    Galen
  11. moonjump

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    Not all governments are giving out vouchers for digital tuners. There is no support here in the UK for example in the digital switchover. Maybe Lka isn't in America.
  12. HaruRuben

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    If unity iPhone got rid of mono it would have to go out on it's own branch that wouldn't affect unity web player. Unity iPhone is it's own thing that is unrelated to the web player, it's like a completely different engine that shares the same IDE as unity.

    My vote is for a a "mono-free unity iPhone" over just about anything else out there.

    Truth is, if I have enough reference good documentation, and some tutorials I'm confident a Mono-free unity iPhone would still be the best thing going.

    (this is the most amazing speculation, i hope for some real info soon)
  13. moonjump

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    This delay in knowing if we will continue to be able to publish Unity projects on the App Store is hurting us, but it is also hurting Unity. For example I was going to download the Unity iPhone trial on the very day the news broke (I'm already an iPhone registered developer), with a view to buying the Indie licence once I knew the game I wanted to make could run on an iPhone at the pace I wanted. But now I am continuing developing it as a Mac game for as long as I can before switching over, so no money yet for UT from me.

    I'm sure the Unity iPhone signups must be way down at the moment, and UT must be working flat out to resolve this issue for themselves, as well as for us. HiggyB and the guys seem really customer focused, so I have faith in them.

    It has been hard to focus on my game, but I've finally got back down to it this week, and today had my most productive day since starting with Unity. I intend to be ready at the door as soon as we get an answer.
  14. Lka

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    I'm from Italy. In 2004 you could get one free tuner per family but the availability was very low and limited to some regions. Since 2006 only people over 65 years old and with yearly income under 10K euros can get 50 euros discount to get one.
  15. kakapo

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    mono's support for managed c++ (if that is what you meant) is very bad. http://www.mono-project.com/CPlusPlus

    but maybe the language guru and boo creator rodrigo b. de oliveira could create a new language with c syntax that runs on mono and at the same time can be compiled by a standard compliant c compiler. :) probably this isn't very feasible though with all the pointer and memory stuff and so on. i don't know...

    i don't think it's that easy. the IDE is written in c# and relies on lots of c#/mono features.

    if i remember correctly in my country we got a 50€ voucher but the cheapest available tuners at the beginning were at least 80€ or so. :) but in my region it's still analog anyway. digital doesn't seem to work well with all the valleys and mountains.
  16. opsive

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  17. tractiongames

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    Agreement is still there as far as I can see?
  18. Tempest

    Tempest

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    The article title is misleading, lol.

    Apple isn't not removing the clause, it says they are just not enforcing it by giving certain companies a green light under the table.
  19. galent

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    Yeah, I don't know who the article is referring to when they said "developers are reporting..." but that clause is still in my agreement, and I have no new agreement to view. Perhaps it another internet rumour that's made it into the press.

    Cheers,

    Galen
  20. Crazy Robot

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    All of you guys are making my head hurt with all of this speculation, I think I'm going to take a break from this subject, relax and finish the update for my game!
  21. Sfernald

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    To contribute some wild crazy speculation, I think the reason unity is silent is because they are in the middle of a buyout.

    Apple is going to buy them and then completely drop all support for platforms other than Mac, iPad, iTouch and iPhone. They will make unity the defacto standard for making games on apple platforms. The unity dev system will always support new os features when they come out so the release schedule of unity will be tied to os releases. Unity pro will become free for registered, paying apple developers.

    This will culminate in the release in the fall of the apple tv 2 which is actually a console more powerful than the xbox 360 or ps3 (probably using some sort of AMD fusion chipset). Using unity will be the best way by far to utilize all of the features of the new console. Also, the console won't come with controllers, but rather iPhones, iTouches and iPads will be used in inventive ways to control the console.

    The console market is just too big for apple to ignore forever and they will need a modern toolset.
  22. Eric5h5

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    Yeesh...the longer we go without a definitive answer, the crazier the conspiracy theories get. ;)

    The console market is a massive money sink.

    --Eric
  23. Sfernald

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    Just remember where you heard it first!
  24. funxed

    funxed

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    Apple already tried the console market back in 1995 with the Pippen and they lost a crapload of money on it.
  25. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    I'm sorry that we've been unable to share more information with you but unfortunately we cannot tell you everything we would like to right now and that sucks. We cannot share more at this time because we're not sure how this will end up and sharing anything more than we have already could jeopardize our plans. Again, I know that sucks for you folks, it sucks for us as well as this is not how we like to operate and we're very sorry about that, but for now it has to be this way. So please understand that we're doing everything we can to find a solution that brings us in-line with iPhone OS4's new ToS so we can all pull through this together.

    As I've said before, as soon as we have more that we can share, we will do that immediately as nobody is enjoying this waiting period. :(
  26. Hilm

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    Cheers for the update Tom.
  27. n0mad

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    Thanks for the update Tom.


    Anyway, Torque and Shiva staves are having the exact same wait for information release (Torque, Shiva).

    So I believe it's Apple which is preventing any middleware to communicate any further for now.

    This could tell that there are still some Apple internal discussions about how to handle that 3.3.1 section, and therefore how to change it.
  28. 3Duaun

    3Duaun

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    thanks for the update. fingers are still crossed
  29. Randy Edmonds

    Randy Edmonds

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    @HiggyB Thank you for the update. I have great faith that UT will get this resolved soon.
  30. Taytus

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    Thanks for the Update.
  31. EricJ13

    EricJ13

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    Thanx for the update. Even if the news is "there's no news" it's good to get news. And I have it from a reliable source that the news we've gotten is all the news there is.

    [​IMG]
  32. donlien

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    Thank you for that.

    Be cool!! (Your Motor,too. :D )

    I guess Apple is helping UT to solve this issue, but you guys have to keep silent for give-and-take conditions. (only a speculation, hope it is true. 8) )
  33. codinghero

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    I'll be sure to let Nintendo know.

    Not true. The Shiva team has already stated that their 1.9 release will be fully compliant since it supports C, C++, and ObjC. The extra seven pages are just people speculating like they are here.
  34. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    While you're doing that, ask Microsoft and Sony how much they've lost. Nintendo sat this generation out as far as tech goes, and Sfernald wants Apple to make a console more powerful than PS3/360. (And presumably sell it for $200...Apple, who never sells hardware at a loss, ever.)

    --Eric
  35. cheezorg

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    Hopefully Apple will back off on the ToS change or at least rewrite it to allow Unity-built apps. (I can dream, right?)

    If not, I have every confidence that Unity will find a way to make this work. If that means some back-end voodoo that I never see, great. If it means I need to learn a new scripting language, well at least I get to learn it the "Unity way," with great documentation, examples and this awesome community for support.

    The silence on Unity's part means that the gears are turning, and events are in motion. And as long as there is silence, there is hope. :D
  36. Lka

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    yes, they are so poor
    http://www.neoseeker.com/news/13687...illion-q3-profit-thanks-to-xbox-live-revenue/
  37. Eric5h5

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    :roll: Now go back to the beginning and add up the losses overall, not just looking at the latest figures.

    --Eric
  38. Venkman

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  39. cmonkey

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    Hi Tom,

    Thanks so much for this update.
    I really appreciate your sharing as much
    as you can right now.

    This is pure speculation on my part, but
    I'm guessing that Unity is waiting for the
    final Apple iPhone OS4 TOS in order to
    determine which actions must be taken?

    I'm not expecting a reply to the above question,
    but that's my best speculative guess at the
    moment ...


  40. codinghero

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    Generalizing statements are most often (including this case) wrong. A loss for MS and Sony does not equate to calling the whole console market a money sink. Nintendo's sole business is the console market and they've been successful in that market for some twenty odd years. Add to that all the game companies who built their business on consoles, and continue to focus on them today.

    Yes, feel free to valuate Nintendo's entire history of console and game sales. Also, feel free to go all the way back and look at the PS1 and PS2, not just Sony's current flop. Btw, I don't need snarky emotes to show the ridiculousness of your quotes.
  41. codinghero

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    According to your link that only applies to Capcom and potentially EA. Of course, if you ask the vast majority of iTouch devs, that's a money sink as well.

    A better way to phrase Eric's poorly generalizing quote is, "All markets are money sinks if you have shitty products and/or marketing." Oh, wait I forgot the :roll:
  42. Lokken

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    Eh

    Microsoft has some good products and marketing.

    They still had to dump a LOT of money into the console market to get to where they are now.

    I am pretty sure that the first xbox never became profitable
  43. Eric5h5

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    :roll: You're only going to get snarky emotes from me because that's all you deserve. You haven't managed to actually follow this particular thread in context at all (hint: we're talking about Apple making a PS3-killer); you're just fighting and picking arguments for the sake of fighting and arguing. As far as I can see, this is all you ever do. Therefore there's no point in reading any posts you write; send me a pm if you want to continue this.

    --Eric
  44. Sfernald

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    No, apple won't play that game. They will charge enough to make their usual huge profit on hardware. Maybe $499 or so. That is not that much more than ps3. The difference is the apple console will be tiny and only have a power and hdmi connector. The cost of ps3 level tech is much cheaper today. AMD can do it on a chip that combines processor and graphics.

    All games will be downloaded, and apple won't have the expense of first party games but will rely on its huge armada of developers (us) to make compelling content. The console will not run Mac os x, but rather a version of the iPhone/iPad os.

    People will buy it because it is cool and made by apple. We will develop for it because we want to be rich.

    Oh, almost forgot. They will throw a A4 chip in there and it will run all iPhone/iPad software to start.
  45. codinghero

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    @Eric5h5, I correct false statements. If you don't like that, then stop making them. The retarded comments you often make are independent of context, especially since they're just petty, biased one-liners. Feel free to PM yourself since you're apparently so impressed with yourself.
  46. Yann

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    Hey, just another stupid idea I needed to share... er... nevermind :roll:
  47. n0mad

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    I'm amazed at how you can feel free to write shocking comments (like "Suicidal people annoy me because all they want is attention", or here being suddenly very agressive), and the day after you continue on this forum, posting like you did nothing wrong.

    1) Eric did not say anything offensive to you.
    2) I'm fed up with agressive people like you recently popping in this old, basically quiet forum.

    So I'm joining Eric's request here : if you want to continue arguing just for the sake of arguing (you just prove it above), please continue in PM, not here.

    We need peace. Goodbye.
  48. Lokken

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    Are you really surprised though? Any kind of conflict or crisis brings out the losers in droves.

    They will be gone soon enough when discussions move away from arguments and speculation and back to day to day use of Unity (i.e. getting stuff done)
  49. codinghero

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    @n0mad, I don't really care what you want. What he said was wrong. I corrected him. He got pissy. I retaliated. As for not caring for suicidal people, so what. My opinion. I don't see you running a mental help facility.

    @Lokken, are you implying anyone in particular is a loser?
  50. Eric5h5

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    Actually their gross profit margin is around 40%, which is not particularly big (Intel's is over 60%).

    Well, a PS3 is $300-$350. Apple won't get into the game console business as such...the iPhone and iPod touch are media devices that happen to play games, rather than portable game systems like the DS and PSP. The hugest hits have made a couple million dollars or so, which is fantastic for individuals and small teams, but can't really sustain many large studios, even given that mobile games development costs are lower compared to consoles.

    So something like an AppleTV-Enhanced device, that also happens to play some games, is about the closest they'd come, if they ever decide to move it out of the "hobby" phase. It won't attempt to have cutting-edge tech though, and the games would be primarily casual games. But yes, it would likely be iPhone OS-based and naturally would have downloadable content, since that's all they do. I can't see how it'd run iPhone games though, given their dependency on multitouch.

    It's also possible that consoles per se could disappear as everything merges into a single "home media device", in which case the whole thing is a moot point.

    --Eric