iPhone OS4 today

Discussion in 'iOS Development' started by maxfax2009, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. groovfruit

    groovfruit

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    So you didn't make the game in Unity? And it's not using the Unity web player? Doesn't that go against what you're saying in your 'game'???
  2. Tempest

    Tempest

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  3. groovfruit

    groovfruit

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    I'm not shunning, I just thought it ironic.
  4. Sfernald

    Sfernald

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    Haha, I believe in using the best tool for the job.

    I don't think the guys at Unity would feel hurt for me building this "text adventure" in something other than Unity.

    The actual content of the game is about what many Unity programmers might be going through right now. And not to spoil anything, but it has a very very happy ending. Just thought some people on here might enjoy the distraction.
  5. Goody!

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    As I'm sure Unity doesn't want to lose what they've built over the past couple of years they will deal with this, either by getting Apple to change the new TOS (which from reading about Apple I believe is unlikely) or by becoming compliant, if it's technically feasible.

    Can the technically minded reply what Unity needs to do (if possible) to become compliant, how long it should take and if it will change the way Unity iPhone is used in any substantial way?

    Please don't argue about this either. I'm still emotionally raw from <sob> a couple of pages ago on this thread. ;)
  6. donlien

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    Thank you for info.

    But, I believe Apple won't never forget to put an item as "We have the right to change this agreement when we want to do.". :)

    The whole ecosystem of Mac + iPad + iPhone + iPod + iTunes Store is belong to Apple, how can we expect they will think do things as we want them to?

    People just missed a critical point, any developers can announce their platform as a close system like Apple.

    Don't think them as Windows or Unix system, we can do anything we want just because of announcement by Winodows' or Unix's developers, things will be approved automatically without any notification.

    Yes, maybe Jobs sucks, but what can we do? Sue him or Apple? If you wanna do it, just do it, but I will go away to find out other living.
  7. cmonkey

    cmonkey

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    I certainly hope Unity can convince Apple to be
    Unity iPhone friendly. C# is a nice language.

    I come from a C/C++ background, so I have some
    technical knowledge, but not as much compared to others
    on this thread. But seeing as how I'm awake right now,
    I'll take a first attempt ... and others can correct
    my mistakes.

    Apple wants everyone to code in either Objective-C,
    C++, or C (JavaScript doesn't count in this case,
    and also Unity's JavaScript is different than
    standard JavaScript.) So it would seem that if
    Apple doesn't change their iPhone OS4 beta TOS,
    Unity would have to expose an Obj-C, C++, or C API.
    Fortunately, a large portion of Unity was written
    in C++. So it seems that this should be possible
    without exposing any of the source code, with the
    exception of header files. So a source license
    shouldn't be necessary. There are some technical
    challenges that others have mentioned in this thread,
    and I'll let other elaborate on what those details are.
    However, the biggest issue is that unless Apple has
    a change of heart, Mono, C#, Unity JavaScript,
    and Boo are going to be frowned upon.

    I think this change is technically possible,
    although it sounds like its a significant amount
    of work. Even though a good deal of Unity was
    written in C++, there is also a lot of dependence
    on Mono right now. I'm guessing a few months or more
    of work?

    I'll let others correct any mistakes I've made,
    and elaborate on the details.
  8. kakapo

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    of course it would be possible for unity to go the c, c++, obj-c route but this wouldn't be unity as we know it anymore. the editor is build around mono for example and many features would be very hard to replicate with rigid languages like c, c++, obj-c. it would become much less user friendly.

    and what would be the point of having a separate unity for iphone which is incompatible to all other versions of unity? then i can simply use a different engine which already is compliant to apple's TOS.
  9. Yann

    Yann

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    This whole affair should be seen as a very instructive lesson for the future : IMHO, the answer to such threats is unionism. Independent iPhone developers are like thousands of Apple employees. They should create some common structure, with democratically elected representatives, to gain a real weight in the relationship with Apple.

    I am convinced that Steve Jobs himself, who has always had a clever vision of the future, will appreciate such an evolution towards real partnership : much better for everyone on the long term, including Apple themselves.

    Does it exist already ? if not, let's create it ! :)
  10. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    Wow, I had no idea that my post on Friday would have conjured up so much emotion. To start, I do sincerely apologize to anyone that felt offended by what I wrote as it's never my intention to offend or anger people here. If folks want to write David or anyone else about it then please do so, I'll stand by what I've written here.

    I get all that, and given the tone of this thread I thought I had a little room to play and apparently that's not the case for everyone. I do want folks to calm down in this conversation a bit, but that doesn't mean nor does it convey that anyone is wrong here. I'm simply again urging folks to keep a steady hand and a wary eye while we ALL get through this together. I never said this isn't an important issue or that you're wrong - neither explicitly nor implicitly.


    We're not into closing threads unless absolutely necessary, that's not the case at all with this thread despite it's meanderings along the way.



    Here's your update for today: same as yesterday, we've nothing more to share than we have already and we'll post an update as soon as we have more information to pass along.
  11. Lokken

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    I wasn't shunning because it wasnt made in Unity.

    I was advising not to click the link because a forum user with 1 post popped in and said 'check out my game' and gave a direct link to run a javascript file. Seemed malicious to me.

    My apologies if it is legit. No offense intended.
  12. Lka

    Lka

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    Hi Tom, I didn't know cactus can grow so much!
    About the udates, can you tell us when UT plan to share some information?
    This week, next week or when OS4 is released?
  13. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    Cacti grow large. The information we've already shared includes the fact that we have no time lines we can share right now. That's not being coy or trying to hide information, it's simply the answer I have to give today as we don't know "when" yet. Part of the "we'll share information when we have it" is time lines so please hang in there if you can.
  14. Lokken

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    I may have missed it but...

    Can you tell us about the meetings that were supposed to happen last week?

    Did they happen? Obviously no concrete decisions came out of them, but what vibe did Unity get from them?
  15. n0mad

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    Just by picking those recent comments of you :


    I can say you're upsetting me in a way nobody on a forum did before.


    I don't care if you're paying for Unity.
    I don't care if you're the employee of the month, or anything that could make you think you're above the rest.

    Now :

    1) Do NOT treat other regular members like that. Jessy helped 10 times more people here than you in your whole life. Show some respect.

    2) Your attitude toward Tom is unacceptable. Gathering a little .txt file with his comments and send it to Mr. Helgason, just because you couldn't acti like that in your enterprise, it's just ... unexplainably depressing. Tom is the perfect guy for representing the Unity spirit by staying human in his answers, be it hot tempered or ultra positive.

    If he wants to put fracking smileys in his comments, he will put fracking smileys in his comments.
    And people actually like it this way.
    It is simply unbearable to see you treating him like that, with all the efforts he's putting into his work.

    And if you can't understand anything but procedures, then take this : I like his way of commenting, and I'm a paying customer too. Which makes 1 customer for, and 1 customer against.
    Hahaha, now what, genius, should I send it to David too ?

    Finally, I hope you realize that you are not welcomed anymore in this community.

    @Tom : please don't change your methods, they are original and fitting very well to Unity's spirit. As a 18+ monthes old customer, I prefer 1000x your style than most big companies uneffective, cold, and macro-generated one, for instance.
    To feel like you could share a beer with your professional tool provider is just priceless, imho.
  16. Jehsup

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    @n0mad I honestly couldn't in any way care less about what you think or feel about me. That feeling is obviously mutual. So let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that, and not sidetrack even more this already sidetracked discussion.
  17. n0mad

    n0mad

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    Rectification :
    You don't care about how anybody here feels with each others, and I do care what you think about them.
    Maybe it's foreign language for you, but actually we're all in the same boat, and we all need respect.

    Let's move on, but please don't mindlessly thrash good people like that.
  18. EricJ13

    EricJ13

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    The emotion was already there bro, it took no great alchemy to stir it up. The longer the uncertainty lingers the thinner our skins are going to become. I can't speak for everyone but I know I'm getting a little snappy myself.

    Understandable. More often than not a little levity is a balm for a stressed out community. I for one liked the duck-in-duck-out part. But I have to agree with some others that the tone was sometimes coarse. I'm not going to dig back through the thread for an exact quote for the part that bugged me because it wasn't the exact words but how the message came across - something like this: "I don't have time to come here everyday and hold your hands about this, grow up you bunch of pansies." Given your correspondence with the community in the past I sincerely doubt that was your intent but it did come across that way. Meh. Like I said, the longer this goes on the thinner our skins become, yours included no doubt. So seeing as how most of us have posted at least one thing that was either outright rude, or could be taken that way, I think we can let some misunderstood intentions slide once in a while from you too. I think most members of the community appreciate your efforts and style.

    Thanx. Back atcha.

    If he gives you any flak remind Mr. Helgason of his dismissive tone RE the whole private API thing. Now don't get me wrong, UT knocked it out of the park on that one; you folks jumped on it like a tribe of starved cannibals on a bunch of unsuspecting missionaries and got the issue resolved with remarkable dispatch, all the while keeping the community updated as to the status of the fix. But David said one thing in an interview either during or just after the crisis that stuck in my craw. This isn't an exact quote but it's very close: "… only a handful of apps where affected anyway." Now I understand spin and I understand damage control but when I can't get my product out due to no fault of my own (other than not learning and using Objective C) then I don't want to hear anything like that. I don't know what the final number of Unity products that where affected by that issue was, but I do know the percentage… 100. But as I said it all worked out well and I'm nothing but impressed and thankful for UT's response to the issue. Except for that quote. See how thin my skin can get?

    The new TOS and the private API issues are very different in very many ways it seems. The private API was relatively cut and dry, whereas the TOS thing seems not to be. I'm not an expert on anything involved in the new TOS mess so I've not got anything useful to add to that conversation. It's been quite an education reading this thread on SO many levels. It's been an education and also a reminder that there's more than technology involved, there are human perceptions and human emotions. Both can be nasty things at times but they can't be avoided. I hope everyone can get some resolution soon, and that we will be able to continue marching with minimum adjustments. In the mean time HiggyB we sure would appreciate even the "I still can't tell you squat" post with a little more regularity. I for one don't want you holding our hands… it'd be sweaty plus I'm not comfortable holding another dude's hand, but just seeing that awesome avatar makes the whole thing a little more bearable. And for our part I hope we can read your posts and not rip them apart and wail and gnash our teeth and berate you for the most picayune hint of uncouthness. It's been said many times before but the old saw is none the less true for it's wear: "We're all in this together." I hope we can all remember that and treat one another accordingly.
  19. mattimus

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    +1 to that sentiment. I'll gladly take smileys, rage, and genuine emotion over the form letters being sent out by Apple and other such corporations. It's like talking to a customer service rep that has a sense of humor vs. talking at one of those voice-activated auto answering services.

    *monotone* "If you would like to check the status of your order, say 'Status' now."
  20. Lokken

    Lokken

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    This would have been a good thought process to have had before you started posting in this thread. Absolutely no-one could have cared less about what you had to say; yet you said it anyways.

    This thread has been sidetracked for the last 30 pages.
  21. RobbieDingo

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    @Jehsup

    Chill.

    [​IMG] -> [​IMG]

    Turn that frown upside down buddy.
  22. codinghero

    codinghero

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    Yes, and again, as discussed a few pages ago, that clause does not hold up when tested in a court of law. A few big companies who also had that clause in their TOS have recently lost lawsuits when they changed their terms so the legal precedent has been set.
  23. quickrice

    quickrice

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    As promised (way back on page 123), here is an update on my test case submission.

    - 4/22 10:30 Submitted a version update to an existing app - WAITING FOR REVIEW

    [update]
    - 4/26 15:41 Status changed from WAITING FOR REVIEW to IN REVIEW
    - 4/26 16:46 Status changed from IN REVIEW to READY FOR SALE

    Wow, 1 hr 5 minute approval! That approval was for a version update. So, add that to the anecdotal observations of others who have also had apps approved since 'Judgement Day' has come and gone. Obviously this doesn't represent anything definitive. As we all know with the App Store, 'your mileage may vary'. But at least it shows they're not rejecting Unity-based apps out of hand (yet).

    I submitted the LITE version of this app - which is an entirely new (V1.0) app on 4/26 at 19:59. I'll post an update when the status of that one changes.

    -----------------------
    On a slightly different note (but still related to Apple's TOS policies)...

    A prior change to the App Store made it so updates no longer show up on the category list by release date (of the update). This further reduction in exposure is painful. I've had 3 updates to existing apps simply gone un-noticed by anyone (except the original buyers of course). As with most of these changes, I try to see Apple's point of view behind these changes. And I do see their intent behind this rule change.

    However, if the rules aren't applied consistently it raises everyone's stress level. Half the apps listed by Release Date are post-V1.0 apps. What am I missing? It's really deflating when your 3+months invested in an update is ignored, while Version 3.1 of another "how fast can you tap a button" app is prominently displayed.

    On this latest update, my app changed from V1.0.2 to V2.0.0. I changed the name of the app (from Master Blaster to Master Blaster Pro). Not a single screenshot from the previous version was used. What am I missing? How do some app updates get shown and others do not?

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Pocket Shot Apps
  24. rocket5tim

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    I just took a quick look in the app store. It appears that you only changed the "display name" from "master blaster" to "master blaster pro" when you updated the app. That's not the same thing as submitting a brand new 1.0 app with a different name. If you would have submitted a new "pro" version, the original Master Blaster app would still be in the store with the original release date, and the new Master Blaster pro app would have been added with an April 26th release date.
  25. EricJ13

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    @quickrice: Thanx for the info. Even taken with a grain of salt it still seems to bode well for us. At least for the moment; as you say our mileage may vary...
  26. quickrice

    quickrice

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    Thanks Meanstreak. You're right, I just changed the display name, not the bundle identifier. The 'value proposition' behind my app is that existing customers get new game levels as they're added. I realize a new V1.0 app would show up, but I don't want to screw my existing buyers.

    Anyway, thx for the feedback.
    Steve
    Pocket Shot Apps
  27. cmonkey

    cmonkey

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    Hi Tom,

    I really appreciate your micro-updates!
    Please keep them coming even if they don't have
    any "big" information ...

    I also agree with Lokken ... I understand the
    nature of NDAs, but could you at least tell us
    if there was a meeting with Apple at all? And
    is Unity waiting on more information from Apple
    before making a decision? Or is Unity sorting
    through the technical details and timelines
    having already received the information Unity
    was looking for? Or will Unity wait for the
    final OS4 TOS before annoucing a decision?

    Thanks so much for your updates Tom

  28. cmonkey

    cmonkey

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    Hi kakapo,

    I've taken a cursory look at:
    Cocos2d-iphone, Oolong, and SIO2, and in my opinion, they aren't on the same level as Unity.

    Cocos2d-iphone only has very minimal 3d, as it is
    primarily a 2d engine. Oolong and SIO2 look like
    they have potential. The artists that I work with
    don't like the fact that SIO2 is build around Blender.
    Also, how does SIO2 use Lua? Depending on how SIO2
    uses Lua, it may or may not be in the same boat we are.



  29. galent

    galent

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    Thanks for the update Tom. Technically I know there are ways around this, I'm really just waiting to see which direction you folks come up with (or if it makes sense given cost verses returns).

    As for tone... well... I wouldn't sweat it. I only speak for myself, but I think the expectation (rightly or wrongly) is you (and others at UT) are going to pop in from time to time and be the cold wet blanket of reality to the raging panic filled debate(s) just with more a tone of patience. Now, that said I have pictured you (and possibly others at UT) starting many replies only to shake it off, and skip it many many times (I know I have :) ).

    This delay is wearing thin.. I've been in this thread since pg 5 and lord it's been a wild ride! I often feel like I've landed a (non-paid) walk on role in a daytime drama. Sure would be nice to start seeing the path to resolution soon 8) As I said early on, thank god my current project isn't iPhone targeted, cause if I was in the boat some here have described I'm not sure I'd be nearly as calm! Which reminds me, any v3 updates to share? ;)

    I'm just glad those interns got out safely :D

    Cheers,

    Galen
  30. WinningGuy

    WinningGuy

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    People need to calm down and stop looking for someone to unleash their fury on.

    Some people are being way too sensitive right now.

    Sure, they may be stressing out and have perfectly good reasons to be on edge. But as adults, we have the ability to look in the mirror, recognize that we're on edge, and not take it out on people that are really just trying to help.

    Instead, take it out on the stress ball.
  31. Jacob Williams

    Jacob Williams

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    I usually keep quiet in posts like this, but I have to go to bat for my boy, Tom (as he has done the same for me too many times to count). I have dealt with Tom on numerous occasions - by forum, email, and instant message. He treats people like they are human beings - should we not offer him the same? I don't know how some of you guys were raised, but when I was growing up, we had a little thing called the "Golden Rule". The premise of this rule is pretty simple, but if need to, I can write it in a language you guys can understand.

    Code (csharp):
    1.  
    2. var preferredTreament = "Good";
    3.  
    4. if (others.treatYou("Bad")){
    5.    self.treatOthers(preferredTreament);
    6. }
    7. else if (others.treatYou("Good")){
    8.    self.treatOthers(preferredTreament);
    9. }
    10. else {
    11.    self.treatOthers(preferredTreament);
    12. }
    13.  
    In other words, treat others how you would like them to treat you. That is exactly what Tom does, and that is what he should get in return.

    So what do I get from Tom's responses?

    • He doesn't need you to hold his hands.
      He wants you to have a sense of humor.
      He wants you to be blunt with him.

    To be quite honest, that is exactly how I want to be treated.

    Now, before I end my rant, I would like to say one more thing. Some of you guys have really shown your true colors. Every member of this community is in the same boat as you - and the boat seems to be taking on a little water because a shark (Apple) bit one hell of a hole in it.

    Now, is it the responsibility of the boat manufacturer (Unity) to plug the hole? Not really. However, if they can't, they are going to build you a new boat that is shark proof... sounds like a damn good deal to me...
  32. codinghero

    codinghero

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    @Jacob, that's a bad analogy. A more accurate one would be Unity is Toyota and Apple writes the engine management software for the self-updating ECU. The software goes bad and the car won't run. Yes, it is Unity's responsibility to replace the ECU. The question now is: Do they initiate a recall?
  33. n0mad

    n0mad

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    Another simpler famous quote is :

  34. Foxxis

    Foxxis

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    I am still surprised that there is no new information whatsoever. No indication regarding even a timeline for new information. Has there been meetings with Apple? Will there be more? Are we days/weeks/months away from a solution?

    I applaud those of you being patient. We have projects ready to enter development and licensed Unity hours before the TOS change. Now we just have to wait. Without some kind of indication for UT regarding how things are going, waiting much further is hard.

    Granted, the options aren't as nice as Unity (hence our choice in the first place), but with Apple's behaviour (silence) and now similar treatment from UT, maybe the future lies elsewhere.

    I am not here to whine, so please respect my opinion. I have tried to contact UT directly regarding this, but I imagine they are quite busy so I may not see an answer for a while. Perhaps this is noticed.
  35. Jacob Williams

    Jacob Williams

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    I have to respectfully (see - Golden Rule!) disagree. I think a more fitting analogy would be that Apple is Toyota, and they have decided that you can no longer use power tools to assemble the car, everything has to be done by hand. Unity is trying to find a way to create battery powered hands...
  36. Foxxis

    Foxxis

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    I do not blame UT for the situation. Not at all. Neither do I blame Tom in any way (why should I) for not sharing information. I have been very surprised by his tone though in a couple of the posts, but I can understand his situation.

    However, I fail to understand the lack of transparency. It gives me the vibe of UT damage control. They don't want to say anything before they have everything mapped out. I can understand this from a business point of view, but for many customers it is a rough treatment and one which is causing much uncertainty.

    So while they did not cause the problem in the first place, they are not adressing the needs of their customers. To use the previous analogy, it would be as if the boat company knew the poor performance in shark infested waters, but sold the boat in that region regardless. They know there is a problem, but they are keeping quiet and are still taking orders. Sure, they are building a better boat secretly, hopefully...but still. :)

    To conclude, since UT isn't speaking I can only guess. If my conclusions are way off base I will definitely offer my most humble apology.
  37. RazorCut

    RazorCut

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    Surely the NDA that was signed between Apple and Unity is restrictive beyond belief, so restrictive that they probably cannot even say that they have an NDA or suggest that the NDA that they have is restrictive in certain ways.
  38. codinghero

    codinghero

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    @Jacob, are they though? We actually don't know what UT are planning. Are they planning on building power tools into a glove so it seems like we're using our hands? Your new analogy fits perfectly, because now that we've bought our Unity power tools that we're not allowed to use, what do we do with them?
  39. Tempest

    Tempest

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    Them not saying anything is better (for them) then saying "We need to fix stuff so that we can comply."

    That will cause confidence in the product to be reduced, and cause potential buyers to reconsider. I've no doubt that Unity will have their product comply with Apple's requirements, and so (likely) no one will be affected..but by being so transparent as to admit that the current product has problems, wouldn't be a good move.

    Denying it, would be lying, but silence is the best course of action.
  40. codinghero

    codinghero

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    @Tempest, that's basically what Foxis is saying. UT are all about damage control at this point. Also, their silence could be considered lying if their current iPhone product is not compliant yet claims to be with the following quote:
    Of course that can also be interpreted many ways...
  41. willtris

    willtris

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    Apologies - and please skip to the next post if this is inappropriate in length!

    Just some thoughts on Apple, UT and development:

    Apple offers a publishing service - when you sign up, you sign up for the current terms - when they give notice of a change of terms, you have to determine whether the service still makes sense for you, and then whether to sign up for the new terms, or not.

    If Apple offers new service terms that are unappealing to many of their existing customers, they will damage their business. On the other hand, if they offer new terms that reflect changes in their publishing service that benefit their existing and potential customers, they may improve business for themselves and all their customers.

    In this case, very little is known for certain about the change in the publishing service that may be imminent - only speculation based on the TOS change and some historic parallels that may or may not be pertinent. Many on these forums feel squeezed by a ‘battle of the titans’ story where indie developers are suffering as collateral damage to a conflict between Apple and Adobe.

    Outside these forums, the Apple-Adobe conflict has been widely discussed, and events have shown that this may be an important aspect of the story - but even Adobe are small compared to Apple or to the growing size of the mobile computing market, and they may just be symptoms and collateral damage of a larger set of market forces, not least the rift with Google.

    Some speculations have focused on the iPad/A4 custom chip aspect of the story. The argument is that A4 may not be an ARM-based design, and that truly native applications will be required to differentiate Apple’s performance in responsiveness, and battery life, as mobile platforms go head to head in the next few months/years. If this is so, UT have to be clear whether this Apple advantage is real, and if it is good for their customers and themselves. If UT conclude that the Apple publishing model/future is a significant sector of the market, they may have to slow down the movement towards the all-in-one IDE platform with convergence between the Unity and Unity iPhone branches. This does not necessarily rule out a convergence at some point in the future. Nor does it imply a wasted investment, as staying at the forefront of this massively expanding mobile industry is going to be well-rewarded into the foreseeable future.

    Over the long term, it has to be a good thing for all of us - as customers who may be consumers of their publishing service or end-users of the published products - that multiple viable market channels emerge where there can be cost competition, quality competition and innovation competition. We have to expect that each of these channels will find their place in the overall market by balancing their commitment to each of these competition modes differently - and that, over time, some will drift from one orientation towards another, and suffer changes in their reputation.

    Indie developers will likely look for the channels that tend towards low cost access, variable pricing and good reputational exposure based on low-key marketing. Established developers - even long time indies - will likely look for exclusive access, regulated pricing and brand prominence assured by strong marketing. This means that we need Apple, Android and other channels too.

    It seems that Apple are positioning themselves to lead the market by offering quality/performance for premium prices rather than by novelty/volume as they did when they had the advantage as first movers - I imagine Apple have not forgotten the moment in their history when they gave away the high-margin end of the business to Mac clones and were left with only low-margins to support their R&D. I don’t imagine they will be wanting to repeat that race to the bottom - and, from what I hear on these forums, neither will UT or its developer customers. In the short term, this change in Apple’s posture may not be as comfortable for un-established developers as for well-established ones.

    I would guess that Apple made their pitch to UT about their ongoing publishing model and why it would be good for UT to exploit it even though it requires UT to adapt its business/engineering plans - it is very unlikely that Apple want to reduce the quality of goods in their store. (Surprisingly, I rather imagine that it was Apple pitching to UT rather than UT pleading with Apple - one day it would be nice if David H was able to fill us in on the flavor of these discussions.)

    If UT conclude Apple’s pitch is real, the question is not whether to walk away, but rather, how to manage the disruption to their own development plans, and to the development process enjoyed by their users. This is straightforward engineering thinking, and it takes time to work out the best path forward - announcing half-thought out plans will only be more de-stabilizing for UT and their users, and asking for patience is clearly the only reasonable way to proceed.

    There is a chance that the outcome of this disturbance will be a UT route into the Apple eco-system that is even more powerful and advantageous to everyone here.

    Here’s hoping!
  42. Jacob Williams

    Jacob Williams

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    There are other car companies to work for. Because we can't use our power tools, we can either find a new place to use them, or follow the rules and continue working for Toyota. The fact of the matter is, I believe Unity WILL find a way for us to continue to use our power tools. However, what I am saying is that the fact that they are doing ANYTHING AT ALL is much more than many software companies would do. I paid for Unity iPhone just like everyone else, but I don't feel like I am "entitled" to it forever. I purchased it because it saved me countless hours on something I was determined to do anyway. If I can no longer use it because of Apple's decision, I will not hold Unity to blame.

    What people need to realize is that Unity had no way of knowing this was going to happen. Even under the worst circumstances, I did not think Apple would ever do something like this. We can't expect Unity to know the future anymore than we do. They are human - just like us.

    Even if Apple pulled the plug on Unity today, this would still be a true statement. You will always be able to "dazzle" your audience with Unity iPhone, regardless of the ability to actually sell you App on the App Store.
  43. codinghero

    codinghero

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    Actually, no we can't. Unity iPhone doesn't work on anything other than iTouch devices.

    Also, while you may not feel "entitled to it forever" that's your own personal view. If I pay for something, I expect to be able to use it for its advertised purpose for as long as I own it.
  44. Tempest

    Tempest

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    What would you say about what happened recently (last year) when analog television was no longer supported?

    Also, Unity isn't falsely advertising the product. As far as I've seen, no one has been rejected by the new TOS clause for using Unity. When Apple starts enforcing it, then Unity's claim may change, but their current claim is valid.
  45. codinghero

    codinghero

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    What, you mean how I can't use rabbit ears anymore? The TV still works fine. And the government gave out free digital tuners. Are UT going to give out Unity Android for free?

    I never said they were, I said they COULD be. The truth is, as of today, they don't know 100% either way, or if they do they're not saying. That's the point Foxis is making about transparency.
  46. Tempest

    Tempest

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    Yes. What if the government hadn't? The product which you had original purchased no longer works, because of the service provider outside of the manufacturer's control? When the product isn't supported, it isn't supported. Just because someone gave you something to allow you to use a DIFFERENT service, doesn't make up for it. Building for android doesn't give you iTunes App Store access.

    Yes, I know you said 'could'. I was just trying to say that's highly unlikely. Also, if the rejections were coming, we'd know about it from developers, not from UT. Since no one has posted rejections on the forum (and we've seen a long history of developers doing such things for other issues), it supports the fact that at the moment, everything is still okay.
  47. Lka

    Lka

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    Wait, what?? Free digital tuners?? I had to buy mine.. I haven't got nothing free from my gov. Maybe this time I'll get a free Android.
  48. StarManta

    StarManta

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    It seems pretty clear to me that UT is having to rework Unity somehow to comply with the new terms (hence the silence). What really worries me is that the way UT might need to change it would be to do away with Mono (and C# and JS) and all the scripts I've been writing will have to be rewritten.

    ....which makes me reluctant to continue using Unity at all until this is cleared up. In other words, eroding my confidence in Unity until then.
  49. codinghero

    codinghero

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    @Tempest, while it's nice that apps are still going through, Apple can still pull them later when they decide to fully enforce the rule. I'm sure we'd all like a definitive Yes or No as to whether or not Unity iPhone will currently meet the license agreement. I think, going forward UT and other middleware providers should look into getting some sort of official nod from Apple that can be displayed much like Nintendo's Official Seal of Approval. Nokia has it, Microsoft has it, if Apple doesn't have it, people should start demanding it.
  50. tractiongames

    tractiongames

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    "UT might need to change it would be to do away with Mono (and C# and JS) and all the scripts I've been writing will have to be rewritten"

    Id almost count on it. Id say rewriting a few scripts and still building your games in Unity is the best case scenario you could be hoping for. Being told Unity simply cannot justify the enourmous amount of work required to remove their middleware / mono dependency or even worse that the only way they can comply is to open their architecture / provide compilable source code and as such would destroy their business advantage IP are the kinds of results im more concerned about.

    Apple have a helluva problem on their hands right now. Think about SEGA's sonic the hedgehog 2 for example. Essentially this is an old version of the console cartridge running on a SEGA emulator all packaged up in an iPhone app (similar to the way the flash games were to be packaged). It is already in the top 10 games and no doubt making a small fortune. What is to stop SEGA now releasing EVERY SINGLE sega game in history on this embedded emulator platform in the space of a few days. All these are going to run below par when compared to other games not being restricted by an emulation layer and could in theory mean Sega end up a dominating force on the App Store.

    Im sure Apple would rather see a few quality games by EA and Gameloft that showcase the devices superior processing power than a few thousand clunky sega emulator dogs disappointing people by the thousands.