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iPhone OS4 today

Discussion in 'iOS and tvOS' started by maxfax2009, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Luis-Felipe

    Luis-Felipe

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    Although I agree with you, you also have to take into consideration how many developers here have stated that not only do they develop for the iPhone (hot market) but make a living from it.

    However from any perspective it is true that relying on a single solution or platform is wrong. We're in a world that frequently changes and evolves and when one thing is taken away, there's no way that should be your only base. Stand your ground in different platforms and areas.

    Also like someone mentioned before, this could be a great opportunity for developers to develop the market on the internet, through facebook and portal sites. And like aiursrage2k said, having an equivalent to ArmorGames would be both awesome for developers as for players seeking online 3D games.

    As someone who isnt completely involved or experienced in the industry and looking like from a bird's eye view, I can see so many doors open by using Unity. I'd suggest maybe for all you guys to see those doors but not leaving the iPhone platform behind.

    this is true, but this also means that business over the internet is falling back. New ways should be developed to allow the buying of games easily. This can be done with payPal or whatever. It's just no one is really focusing on the internet deployment

    also take this Unity game as an example. Great success for both windows ad mac : http://sakari-indie.com/foreign_legion/

    just some ideas..
     
  2. Fireburst

    Fireburst

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    This is right on the money. This is more about Apple not wanting cross platform game development because they don't want developers deploying games on Android as well as iPhone.

    The problem is they could end up forcing all the innovative games projects to open mobile platforms instead.
     
  3. galent

    galent

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    Yes, Unity (basic) and compile for Mac, Windows, and web browser. Enjoy your new Unity package :)

    Cheers,

    Galen
     
  4. MonkeyDead Studios

    MonkeyDead Studios

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    That's brilliant and thank you for the quick reply.
     
  5. bitomule

    bitomule

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    Please, someone tested iphone game on 4.0? How doues it work?I want to update to start testing my game.
     
  6. Luis-Felipe

    Luis-Felipe

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  7. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    What's risky about it? I worked with Adobe products for MANY years now and I am sure as hell that I would rather try to change platform than workflow. At least as long as it's possible in a reasonable ammount of effort. I worked with Windows and With Mac OS. I feel comfortable on both systems. Yes it's kinda sad to be as dependent on a certain software (and I usually try to avoid it wherever possible) but I don't think I'm the only one thinking that way. Especially Photoshop has been integrated in SO MANY workflows ...

    Ah, nevermind.
    I'm not trying to support either side or any company as each and every one has their pros and cons. Apple does, Microsoft does and so does Adobe. What really amazes me is how messy this gets now ...
    I'm really curious how this will end.

    *grabs popcorn*

    Sorry. Back on topic. :)
     
  8. ozoner

    ozoner

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    Unity has always been there for the developers and this issue will be resolved as well. We all feel the flustration, and anxiety because developing games is our passion, our lively hood and simply put just a lot of fun after all is said and done.

    Apple is being Apple and we all knew this before we got into the game with them, they obiously want to rid themselves of Flash, well they are well on the way to doing just that.

    We being Unity developers have a leg up on Apple for many reasons, and one of them is Android. Unity has promised us Android capabilities and they will deliver. There will be more Android phones, laptops and slate devices in the next few months then ever imagined. We as unity developers will be at the fore front with games ready and more being developed.

    I think Android is Apples real issue not Flash.

    Of course all of the above is just my opinion. I am in no way trying to start a flaming session as This is how I deal with all negative issues, I try and find a bright spot.

    We are with Unity and we will be fine.
     
  9. VIC20

    VIC20

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    I don't believe in Android. It's not like you can release a smartphone, open an App Store and voila there is the 2nd AppStore wonder. I believe the iphone is special because a large ammount of the customers were already used to iTunes and to buy online content. People who decide to go with android might be different. I doubt it will ever reach the same device to download ratio.
     
  10. mongol

    mongol

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    Hey guys, it is easy to bash Apple over their recent TOS changes. I would like to say though that they actually PROTECT you more than they harm you.

    Hear me out: you are interested in using Unity3d to publish to iPhone for several reasons:

    • 1. market size (millions of devices)
      2. relative small number of developers for this market (not like Microsoft's market)
      3. High quality and high specialization of the tools you use (Unity3d, 3d modeling software, etc)

    Now, imagine that Apple is not interested in taking care of its platform and allows any type of software, built in no matter what way, to enter this market. For every good, interesting app built with Unity3d there will hundreds if not more of Flash 2D ports.

    Do you think the end users will still be attracted to use iPhone? Do you think they will still find your app as easily as it is now? Do you think there will be people interested in developing something high-end for iPhone?

    It will become just another web-like medium, with cheap knock-offs. In this medium the experience will be the lowest common denominator that allows an app to quickly be built for any device [iPhone, Android, etc]. The user experience and excitement will be totally and royally f...d.

    Apple is protecting you and this medium so that you can continue to do high quality work and not be swamped by a deluge of cheap stuff. You will have more projects and more money if you too protect the space.

    Think about it and not let your emotions take you over.
     
  11. willtris

    willtris

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    Got to agree with VIC20: android is going to be a tricky deal for devs as I'm guessing that the particular hw implementations of each phone are going to lead to performance variations that require a lot more attention, and may hurt game reputations - ie the reputation may get tied to the poorest of the phone implementations, either because bad news sticks to the game rather than the phone, or because folk know that their phone is not the best.

    Also, got to agree with the post that the only thing you can rely on is change in this line of work, and that it better be built into every bit of your business plan!

    That said, Unity is a quality product that enhances the iPhone's reputation and has, as I understand it, a good relationship with Apple: So I figure 4.0 isn't intended to kill it off, and there will be a clear message to say so pretty quickly. But, I definitely won't expect any announcement to say that the legal department at Apple handled this with maximum clumsiness.

    That's 5 cents for the optimism column - like everyone, hope it pans out... and soon,

    Gavin
     
  12. JDonavan

    JDonavan

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    I love how something that's only an issue because of bloggers proclamations has turned into the worst thing Apple has ever done.

    Everyone need the chill TFO and quit whipping each other into a frenzy until there's an official response from Apple.
     
  13. mudloop

    mudloop

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    Yeah, I have 3 planned iphone games, one which is pretty far in development. I'm not sure what I would do if it doesn't work out. I might have to learn objective c, but I'm not looking forward to it. But I'm pretty optimistic that a solution will be found.

    About Flash : I know it has always been slow on macs, but on my macbook (which is pretty recent but not the latest model) it runs the same as on my pc, and never experienced any crashes. Maybe that's only in safari? I use firefox.
     
  14. bitomule

    bitomule

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    Please! Someone tried unity games on 4.0. Apps developed for 3.0 works on 4.0? I´m reaaly interested on that.

    Thanks :)
     
  15. Luis-Felipe

    Luis-Felipe

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    a blog post from Adobe:
    http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2010/04/cs5_countdown_is_on.html

    like I've said a couple of times, hopefully Unity and related middleware remain untouched by Apple's new TOS. However, i think it would be a good idea to start thinking of a plan B. Some say go Android, others web deployment etc.
     
  16. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    I guess they will work fine for most of them
     
  17. WillBellJr

    WillBellJr

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    When I say 2D, I mean games that can't be considered "3D"; Castle Crashers, Cafe World, Tetris, etc.

    Unity can be used to make those kinds of games as well.

    Flash not being 3D, is used to mostly make those kinds of games.

    If I wrote a 2D "Asteroid Cafe" game in CS5 where I sell mined ores to passing spaceships and that gets squashed, but then I go write the same 2D game using Unity (which gets a pass just because it's considered a "valued 3D authoring tool") is that fair??


    Anyway, all this is speculation AND 100 years from now, it won't matter.

    I just have my pen and pad, all ready to take down notes from what ever happens from all of this - a great lesson to be learned, no matter which way it goes.

    -Will
     
  18. ibyte

    ibyte

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    @bitomule

    Hi I did a *quick* test - my game seems to run okay in the 4.0 simulator. It also came back to the same place when resumed and the game plays fine for me.

    Anyone else?

    iByte
     
  19. bitomule

    bitomule

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    Unity remote should work too, no?
     
  20. ibyte

    ibyte

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    Not sure as I am not ready to load OS 4.0 beta onto my only iPhone at the moment and install Unity remote.

    iByte
     
  21. bitomule

    bitomule

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    That´s my problem, i just have one iphone. Maybe someone could help me on that.

    Another question, is not neccesary for me to test my games on 4.0, no? Unity will update unity to run on 4.0. Beta testing is just for Objective-c developers?
     
  22. ibyte

    ibyte

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    My understanding is that Apple will not be accepting submissions to the app store for OS 4.0 based applications for some time. So the beta is there to make sure things work okay for you and to give feedback to Apple.
     
  23. codinghero

    codinghero

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  24. romulan

    romulan

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    And that means what?!
    Your style reminds me of Lee Brimelow: the same Flash evangelist [aka Adobe tool] that just pretends that Apple is evil because it does not want to surrender its iPhone platform. When you can't develop anything cool, start whining and throw a temper tantrum. They better find some good developers and do what Unity and MonoTouch did: a solid app with a smart architecture and good performance.
     
  25. cmonkey

    cmonkey

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    If Apple does decide to enforce the strictest interpretation of its (beta) iPhone OS4 TOS, I wonder if is there any chance that Unity could develop a separate IDE based on its amazing technology, that would allow developers to code in Objective-C, C, and C++ in a way that is compliant with a strict interpretation of the iPhone OS4 TOS? Certainly, this will be a significant of work, but I'm wondering if it might be a possibility. Unity is absolutely amazing technology, and I know its currently dependent on Mono, but I also understand that large portions of Unity were written in C++, which would make it seem like there could be a possibility for an iPhone OS4 TOS compliant IDE with enough work (if Apple decided to be tough about their current beta iPhone OS4 TOS).

    Hopefully, Apple will revise its TOS in a way that does not impact Unity iPhone negatively. It would be nice if Apple provides some clarification next week ... or if not next week, sometime this month.
     
  26. luisanton

    luisanton

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    Yes, and I am also considering Steam. Surely not Nintendo or PSN (how much for a PSN license, 1500$? no thanks!). But that's not the point. I'm not distributing my games in App Store because it's new and cool, but because the potential market is HUGE and the entry barrier for us is low.

    The App Store is perfect for microtransactions (0,79€ a game, right one click away from your device!), comfortable for customers and a potential gold mine for anyone with a solid product.

    If you are waiting for the bus and you get bored you don't play PS3, 360 or Wii games. If you have an iPhone you check the App Store to see if there's something new and interesting. That's why it's so attractive to developers: iPhones iPods are everywhere, and all of them are similar. It's not like programming for Symbian or Android: there are a miriad of different devices!

    I would be really dissapointed if all this ends up in Apple not accepting games made with Unity. But if it happens, I'll look for a different market.

    However, iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad are what they are thanks to the App Store and its applications and games. Most of them are third party products, created with middleware software. It would be quite a nonsense to ban all that :(
     
  27. b-joe

    b-joe

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    UnityRemote works perfectly fine.
    (OSX 10.6.3, Unity iPhone 1.7, iPoneOS 4.0 Beta)
     
  28. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    Yes it works, However I would not recommend to upgrade to os4 because you won't be able to downgrade back if you don't like it.
     
  29. codinghero

    codinghero

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    @Lee Brimelow, do you even know what Steam, XBL, PSN, and Wii/DsiWare are? Because it sounds like you don't. Just about every AAA title is available for sale on Steam. They also have an indy market and have recently shifted focus to that sector. If you pulled your head out of Steve Jobs ass long enough you might learn something.

    I don't. But every kid I've seen in the past two years has a Nintendo DS, DSi, or DSiXL. They take them on the bus, to school, in the car, everywhere. And everyone who owns one plays games on it. The same thing can't be said for the iPhone/iPod. I'm not saying that everyone should jump ship, I'm just saying there's plenty of other platforms. The iTouch is not some holy grail.

    By the way, good luck with Steam. Let us know how that goes. We're currently working on a series of games for steam distribution.

    Oh yeah, and here's a graph of some install bases:
     
  30. Venkman

    Venkman

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    50 million iPhones sold + 35 million iPod touches = 85 million iPhone OS devices.

    It's closer than you think. Apple is now Nintendo's biggest competitor in hand held devices. When Apple releases their device on other networks, that number will grow by another 5 million, easy.

    Add in the iPad - another 400-500 thousand. And they are all running the same OS. That is Android's biggest problem. The OS is all over the place. THere are new phones being released with an older version of Android than Motorola's big black "DRIOD" (robot voice) device.
     
  31. Jessy

    Jessy

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    Good. Because hardly anybody on these boards has any chance of releasing something on any other "console", especially one of Nintendo's.
     
  32. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

    Volunteer Moderator Moderator

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    Nintendo has by far the biggest share of mobile games and still totally stomps Apple. Apple is mostly eating into Sony's share, not Nintendo's. But, it's far easier and cheaper to get published with Apple. Also Nintendo currently has no mobile hardware that Unity could actually run on, so it's a moot point unless you just want to abandon Unity entirely.

    --Eric
     
  33. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    When will we get a 100% guarantee that Apple will not reject Unity 3D apps due to OS 4.0 ULA violations?

    I am in the process of working out the details for a contract with a client of mine. Development will take about 5 months and we need to know ASAP if this will be a problem.

    I looked here and in the official blog, I see Apple has not got back to you, my question is when are you going to find out? Have you sent people to Apple HQ? Contacted their legal department?
     
  34. galent

    galent

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    I don't think that's a fair sweeping generalization. I believe you might find a number of folks here could sign up just fine.

    but that's not why I'm posting... I've had some news from the front line:

    I don't know who, or by what means, but some game developers are alerting their customer base of their withdrawal from the iPhone platform. Let me tell the story, I just ran out to buy my wife a cell phone (no not an iPhone, mostly because she doesn't want one - not anything related to this). The sales girl (who apparently loves her iPhone) mentioned she has started receiving messages from games she owns that the developer is withdrawing their products and support from the App Store over the 4.0 license. From her description it sounds like in-game messages of one sort or another.

    I sure hope Apple clears this up soon, so I can decide which side of this fence I'm going to come down on. But unless someone has a reliable inside track this sounds fairly reactive (going so far as to ping the consumer base!), that tact won't buy you any love from Apple if speculations are wrong (nor much love from consumers btw).

    Let's keep our heads about us folks...

    Cheers,

    Galen
     
  35. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    BTW, if everyone is being redirected here to discuss 4.0 license as it applies to Unity Development, WHY is this thread being derailed?!?

    Can we please keep the discussion in this thread to the topic on hand?

    This is bullshit man
     
  36. codinghero

    codinghero

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    According to Apple. Also, the graph I posted was almost a year old. Industry projections estimated Nintendo would hit 158 million by the end of 2009. Now on both sides consider that these are sales period. How many iTouch sales were just upgrades from 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 to 3GS? Same holds true with DS to DSi to DSiXL. And to restate my earlier point on this matter, not everyone buys games (or even apps) for their iPod/iPhone. Everyone who owns a DS is buying games.

    The good thing about Nintendo is if you got your game on a DS you can port it right over to Wii and add another 50 million (as of last year) to your potential user base and still sell it on their store. At the moment you can't buy an iPhone app and play it on your desktop.

    Agreed. My argument was just to illustrate that Apple isn't the only platform in town with simple remote delivery. I don't know how it turned into a battle of mobile devices. :D

    Indeed. I meet all the requirements and could apply today if I wanted to.
     
  37. Mandrake

    Mandrake

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    No one knew about this other than Apple, that includes Adobe/Unity/Novell/etc...

    Unity's CEO has made a very reasonable statement regarding it. What do you want them to say? The information simply isn't there...
     
  38. Jessy

    Jessy

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    That's the worst thing I've ever heard. :?

    If you could, please show me a handful of titles that have been ported from the DS to Wii, or vice versa. I could use a good laugh. :D
     
  39. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    I want them to say when they expect another update. I want to know how the progress is going. My expectations are no different than they would be with any company I pay for a service that has a major impact on my business.

    <post edited by a moderator [HiggyB]>
     
  40. romulan

    romulan

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    Then, please, just watch the official blog for the official word. Don't play the righteous, better than thou card.
     
  41. codinghero

    codinghero

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    Why does it have to be DS to Wii? Just look at all the console to DS titles. To answer your question though, I don't know which ones off the top of my head, but there are a bunch of Gameboy, GBA, and DS on the Wii Virtual Console. Feel free to laugh, but the companies that developed those games probably won't hear you through all the money they've made.
     
  42. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    First off I am only posting in the thread I was told to post in so that I can get an answer to my question. I am not playing any righteous better than thou card, and I do not appreciate being harassed for it.

    Please stop with the condescending attitude, I have not done anything wrong and you are just a forum member like myself.
     
  43. Mandrake

    Mandrake

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    Slayer5150: You do realize you are now contributing to the "800 pages" of bullshit, right? They're your words though, so I guess you probably don't consider it noise.

    As many people have said to you: "This is a new development, nobody has an answer for you". You can be sure that once Unity knows something and it is solid information, they will share it in an official capacity.
     
  44. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    Once I again I would appreciate it if I did not get harassed by the fanboys. I have not done anything wrong, and am here to conduct business, not get into arguments with people who DO NOT REPRESENT the company that created Unity 3D.

    I was told by someone that this is the thread to discuss the 4.0 TOS as it applies to Unity, but all I see is a bunch of text about Android. And the one response I do leave, gets a condescending reply from a fanboy.
     
  45. Mandrake

    Mandrake

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    I assure you, your impatience doesn't make me a fanboy. You've made one post, aye?
     
  46. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    I will make as many as I need to make, that is none of your concern. I need to make many threads and replies, this thread is now a huge argument over Android, Wii, and other things that have nothing to do with the topic on hand.

    Keep derailing it more
     
  47. Foxxis

    Foxxis

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    Frankly, this is the wrong place to conduct business and expect official answers other than those already given elsewhere. If you have special circumstances I suggest you email Tom Higgins personally. However, I suspect you will receive little other information as there isn't any.

    These developments are about 48 hours old and we are in the middle of a weekend. We are many that have much riding on this, and we are here discussing the events. If you are not interested in discussion, again, please don't. Engage with Unity Technology directly.
     
  48. Jessy

    Jessy

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    I tried looking, but all I found were crickets chirping.

    There are games with the same name, but they're not ports.

    If "a bunch" means zero these days, you're on to something! :eek:

    http://www.nintendo.com/wii/virtualconsole/games
     
  49. Lka

    Lka

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    It's not about a blogger rumor but about a new Apple TOS.
    I don't know how many employees has Apple but I think some of them is reading forums like this one. I only want to tell them since 2006 I got 2 imac, 2 iphone, 1 itouch and 1 macbook and if this new TOS if confirmed it is a sufficient reason for me to leave the osx platform. sure I won't trash my imac but my next computer for graphics and programming will be a custom i7 and i'll get a android phone and a slate. it's not a childish reaction but I like programming and if I can't "play" with their gagets I won't buy them.
     
  50. Slayer5150

    Slayer5150

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    I wonder if its possible for Adobe to sue Apple IF Apple allows Unity 3D apps but not Flash apps. I suppose it certainly is, since people can sue over hot coffee, but I sure hope not.

    Flash on the iPhone will be the death of an future opportunity. 150k apps is nothing compared to what will happen.

    I am curious if the Unity people have contacted Apples legal department. They are EASY to contact, I have done it myself. I can't see why this is taking so long to get an official yes or no from Apple, seems pretty cut and dry to me. And for the unity folks, they should not be calling, actually show up at Apple HQ and sit down with legal.