If Blender can do everything why do people still use 3DS Max?

I always wonder this.

Why would someone bother using a student license of 3ds max when you could use blender considering there may come a time when you just realized you could potentially sell your game?

It would have been time wasted learning something else right?

I really do not get it!!

I do however find it strange that they even give out all these student copies free of charge. Isn't that a stupid move since anyone can use the student copy and sell their work commercially? its not like they could find out if 3ds max was even used in Unity?

I don't get any of this. Autodesk free student copy, blender totally free. Both can do the same thing yet one costs $4000 but they give it away free anyways and are just "trusting" random people to do the right thing and not use it for commercial purposes when most people would just go ahead anyways.

I don't get it!

 

Some of the reasons off of the top of my head:

Different software has different strenghts and weaknesses.
People might be more familiar with the workflow of either program and like to integrate that one.
If something odd happens in 3DS Max you can communicate with Autodesk to resolve the issue if it is important enough for you (and you want to invest money in their services). Open Source software does not follow a trict agenda of a developer behind it - even though blender is an extremely vital project thanks to Ton Rosendaal.
Commercial programs might be tailored to fit into more pipelines and have a chance to be supported by other commercial vendors sooner vor various reasons (support, colaborations, etc).
Autodesk gives out student copies so that people learn on their software and later don't want to change their workflow. Everything you are familiar with you are far less likely to ditch for something entirely new since it will always cost you a lot of time to relearn.

Also I would not use student versions for any game, if I was you.
Firstly there's metadata. Second as soon as you make money your name can be checked agains Autodesk's registered users. Or just in case something else happens .... just don't do it. Desides all the problems you shoudl pay for something that makes you money and other people work. You would not want to have someone else rip off your work, would you?

 

Not sure. 3dsmax's ribbon is the worst abomination of UI design I've ever seen.

 

I would say the main reason is UI and workflow. Yea Blender is free but 3DS Max could just work better for some people, or they like the controls. Personal preference I guess (I haven't used 3DS Max much so I can't comment on it).

 

I guess its safe for me to say that I should instead start using Blender since it will be my first ever 3D modeling software so later on in life I won't have to worry about relearning anything.

Out of curiosity this metadata thing can autodesk really know even if its been converted into Unity?
Say auto desk questions you and you claimed you built it in blender now?

From what I have seen possible with blender its just as good as high paid software.

 

Student licenses are intended for learning purposes. Blender is certainly improving at a good pace, but getting a job with most companies will still require you to know commercial modellers like 3ds max and maya.

If I were intending to go commercial, I'd probably subscribe to the modeller prior to releasing it.

 

so hold on a second you are saying its ok to use 3ds max to create all your stuff in student form

And then when time to release just pay a 1 month subscription to release the game? that sounds brilliant except for the fact that autodesk has no subscriptions and they want $4000 upfront or am I wrong?


edit ok I found it

http://www.autodesk.com/products/3ds-max/buy

ok so all one needs to do is pay $180 for 1 month right and then cancel it right?

 

ok how about Maya LT its only $30 a month?

http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya-lt/overview

And I could use the student version for a couple years and then day before I release my commercial game for money I can buy a $30 subscription for one month and then cancel it right?

 

I don't know. I couldn't find any statements made by Autodesk that would indicate you could or couldn't. Searching for it only turned up a post by Teila from a day ago.

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/student-version.118030/#post-1756248

 

thanks for clearing up that. This indicates to me to stay clear of Autodesk unless I am using it to learn other than that its useless for freelance or hobbyist work

 

No - that's not really okay. Strictly speaking you cannot use things you created in student edition to be released commercially. Logically you would not be able to release a game commercially with tons and tons of art assets created in only a month. So as soon as you want to make money off of it use the commercial version or use something different.

Though keep in mind: I'm only some german dude on a forum telling you something that is probably right. The only real safe legal help you will get from a lawyer or Autodesk themselves.

Judging by your other thread on Unity games, though, you are a student only starting out on anything. So you should probably not worry about these things but rather about learning and improving skills first and foremost. As soon as you actually want to make money you can start worrying about licensing.

 

Because Blender is about as intuitive as a brick in the face.

 

To be fair ... a brick in the face is pretty intuitive. Hold - aim - throw.

 

ok thanks guys yes I am a student so I will worry first about learning to model but I have decided I will use blender.

The extra hurdles is a very small price to pay as opposed to 3ds max etc

thanks

 

@WalkingDead

Well many 3d artists/graphic designers, including myself, know how to use, more than one 3D software.
In my case, I learnt Maya first in Animation class.

Then I learned Blender a year later.

When I first heard about Blender, and I learned what open source meant. I was not to sure if Blender would be worth learning.
Like alot of people, I thought to myself, "this Blender program must be some sort of casual cheap dud thingy! But I always knew not to judge things." Lol!
So I gave Blender a shot.
And after learning Blender well, I almost never went back to Maya.
Because Blender sped up and solved alot of problems that I and alot of other graphic designers had in Maya.

Even my 3d animation teacher who worked in the video game industry years back, was slightly pissed off, and laughing at the same time, when we demonstrated to him, Blenders capabilities and easiness.
And he saw, how much easier it was to do "certain," things in Blender in comparison to Maya etc.

Blender is just as capable as any other open source or paid for commercial 3d software.

The only problem with Blender(like all other open source projects) is that they don't have a ton of money and resources to pay people to improve it. Or put in more options sooner. etc.
So new features and things, take a while to be implemented.

Maya and 3dmax are nice softwares too. If you want to learn them, go ahead.

For my work, Blender is more suited for my game design and 3D art work stuff.

But at the end of the day it's up to the user, not the software.

PS: Another 3D program super favoured in the gaming industry, is SoftimageXSI.
But Autodesk is going to pull the plug on it next year.
Lot's of angry XSI users on Facebook.
I don't blame those XSI users. That software is pretty cool!

 

You can check out Blender Cookie for character modelling tutorials.
Here it is: http://cgcookie.com/blender

Also, when you're learning 3d modelling or character modelling,
"Do not rush."
Take your time to learn.
Otherwise it'll become frustrating for you.

They do Unity game engine tuts as well.

Enjoy!!

 

thanks brandy

I will only be using blender for unity and UE4 though just basic modeling and suff as its for student use.
But I intend to make money later on and don't want my work to be in vain so this is why I would use blender just to be on the safe side you know.

 

Which is why I choose to learn Maya LT. It is only $800.

 

I understand perfectly well.
Enjoy using Blender.
It is a really Great 3d software.
Good luck to you and your game project and many Blessings to you too!

 

If you are going to learn blender then look on YouTube for the training DVDs. All official blender institute own DVDs are creative commons.

 

I found Blender for the most part to be quite intuitive and conventional, except for one thing: the lack of tool modes and the resulting right mouse button selection. That part can be very strange off the bat. But once you get beyond that, things are more conventional.

 

@BrainMelter
If you don't like the right mouse button clicking commands, in Blender........
There is an option in preferences, where you could reverse all mouse click selection commands, to the left mouse button.

And there is also another option where you can switch the interface commands, to make it mimic, or make the commands similar to Maya.
I never used the Maya option, because I grew accustomed to the default Right clicking.

 

Yeah once you get used to selecting with RMB it's pretty good, because then you can do all normal actions with LMB. It's just a bit weird at first because Max, Maya, Photoshop etc don't work that way.

 

Yeah. Very true.

 

If youve gotten proficient at 3dsmax, then tried to go to blender, you will know why.

 

To be fair, a lot of this is just being used to working with a particular tool. People don't want to switch because the learning cost isn't worth it. People just got used to working with max over the years. Autodesk profits.

 

Blender can't do everything. It's got its place, definitely...can't beat the price. But there is something to be said for commercial software. My beef with 3DSMax is its price.

 

I found blender very clumsy when I tried it. It was bad enough I didnt even want to give it a decent shot at proving it was worth the effort.

Things as simple as how it rotated around the object you were working on felt inadequate... i dont need to do much in a 3d software... but the free software out there, while perfectly adequate, is a country mile away from the paid versions, and its obvious when you use them you get what you pay for.

Gimp is another example. Being proficient in photoshop, I would prefer to use Paint.net over gimp

 

Blender is perfectly adequate when it comes to rotating objects, in terms of what operations you can do. But the interface for that is arguably not as intuitive. It has to do with tools in Blender being modeless, as I mentioned above. It means the workflow has to be approached somewhat differently.

 

I did go from 3DS Max to Blender... I never looked back.

 

In regards to the OP's question, I suspect that it mostly comes down to prior investment. A lot of large studios have a lot invested in the large packages. Sure, it might be free in terms of licensing to swap everyone over to Blender instead of buying even one extra Max or Maya seat at several thousand dollars, but what are the costs to the rest of the business? They're huge:

• Export/import pipelines would need to change.
• Custom tools need to be re-written or replaced.
• Huge parts of the QA pipeline would need rework.
• Any documentation, policies or work instructions referring to old tools need to be updated at best, re-written at worst.
• Everyone who uses the software needs re-training.
• Everyone who uses the software will drop in productivity for somewhere between 3 weeks and 3 months as they get familiar with the new stuff.
• Software will have to be uninstalled and re-installed on most if not all workstations. (This will result in days or potentially weeks of cumulative downtime.)
• All existing data saved in the old software's formats need to be converted to the new data's formats. This is a potentially lossy and/or destructive process, so needs its own QA process.
• Everything that any of the art pipeline touched needs re-testing, and will almost certainly need maintenance work as a result.
• There's an ongoing cost of training new people, as well. Students are usually trained in one of the big commercial packages, so re-skilling for Blender would be an overhead. On a closely related note, bringing in new people on short notice would be made far more difficult by using less common software.

So yeah, the licensing may be cheaper... but putting that aside, there's actually pretty solid reasons that the big names can continue to charge the prices they do. Anyone who's worked in a medium to large business will immediately see the large costs associated with even one of the points above, let alone all of them at once. So to an established business it's cheaper to keep going with the big name packages than it is to change. Which in turn means that it's important for students to learn at least one of the big packages, because if you want to get paid for your work you'd best know the tools that can get you a job.

 

Everything angrypenguin said is absolutely true. One thing I would add that he didn't directly say but is implied in several of his other points is that (when possible) you use the tools the are most efficient for the developers. We use Maya for our primary character and 3d art pipeline, mainly because that is what our key artists/tech artists use. If you are going to hire top people in their field, they are mostly all going to be Maya users. Whether or not another tool is capable of the same thing, using a standard and what people are strongest with is advantageous. And given a project of our scope and size, software is such a small part of the costs that it is almost inconsequential. Though I would say the low end would be much higher, even a 3 week drop in productivity is more expensive than the cost of Maya over Blender.

----

But that isn't just biased toward a single piece of software. For example, myself and a couple of others are much more comfortable using Blender. So we do. As long as I am not in the primary character/building asset pipeline, I use Blender for about everything else I do, FX/UI/Event/Standalone 3d work. Unfortunately, I simply don't have the time to learn Maya (as much as I would like to). Generally that is true for about everyone one on the team. With the exception of the primary character/building pipeline (Maya), and the engineers on the working on client (Mac), the choice of tools is up us as long as it doesn't interfere with others. (our Engineering Lead honestly and truly does all his coding for Unity in EMACs, it is a wonder to behold).

 

I feel exactly the same about Maya.

 

Wondering why this is even a thread

 

Because the answer to the OP's question is different depending on who you are. If you're a AAA studio with a well established pipeline, switching to another tool would probably be too expensive. But if you're an indie studio starting out, Blender looks a lot more attractive.

 

I'm not a 3D artist by any stretch of the imagination, but I've tried a few tools and actually find them all to be simply "different". When people say they think a different tool is less intuitive than the one they're used to, I think what they really mean is that it's frustrating purely because it's different. "Intuitive" means "works like I expect it to", so of course if you've learned on X then you'll innately expect other things to work somewhat like X, and it'll feel clumsy when they don't because that slows you down.

The few people I do know who've used multiple 3D packages enough to switch between them at will without frustration all say that they simply all have their pros and cons.

I've never been able to figure out whether Blender has a negative stigma because its interface is actually clumsier, or just because so few people use it commercially that it's always the one that gets left out. Not being an expert in the field I honestly can't tell.

 

Exactly. I know objectively that Maya is, generally speaking, a superior tool in many ways. However the interfaces/workflow are different enough that every time I force myself to use Maya, in under a minute I am annoyed and pop back into Blender. I really should sit down and learn it, I want to sit down and learn it, but I just never have the time. I am hoping that something comes up where I will have to use Maya, then I'll have a good excuse.

I honestly believe that it is partly that, and also partly historical negative reputation. Early days, Blender's interface was virtually a case study in what not to do. (so bad that Blender became more known for its bad UI than anything else). It has long since vastly improved, and is very solid and flexible. (I would say no better or worse than average). But it still carries a negative view from those days.

Interestingly, last time the blender topic came up here, I asked our lead modeler/rigger (who has a long history of top AAA games), if he ever tried Blender. He said "No, why would I?" That was it. He learned on Maya/3ds, and every studio he worked in used Maya. He can produce phenomenal work in Maya, so has never seen any reason to bother. I thought that was an interesting perspective.

 

Both have horrendous interface, although Blender is a bit more horrid.
There is good reason to learn 3DS Max, if you want a job at a studio you will most probably have to learn it.

C4D Master race here btw

 

Max or Maya ... though as someone coming from Cinema 4D - going over modo now learning Maya LTI can say: As soon as you've really understood how and why 3D works changing programs isn't nearly as painful as relearning any more. You know for what to search in the help files and what should work and how and why.

It also shows how good the provided learning materials and reference is.

Cinema 4D is a pretty good starting point, though as it really is easy to understand and does things very visually and logically. Also it's rock solid. It's unfortunately not tailored towards games and it shows often. Of course it does work but the name actually says it all - motion graphics and films is where it's strengths are.

 

I've used 3DS Max student edition for a couple of years. While not a modeller, I got really good at creating and exporting static objects(furniture, lamps, etc). Creating and skinning characters were hard, but got easier in Max. Then I tried to use Blender and ran from it. Things about it seem more difficult than it should be.

 

Blender still has some wonky bugs and incomplete features, especially with the import/export. Importing fbx is just asking for trouble, and exporting into Unity stll applies that awkward rotation to the model as a result of the conversion of right to left handed 3d coordinate systems. To be fair there, 3ds max has that problem too, but Maya doesn't.
I like Blender, but they need to improve interoperability. Oh, and have a prettier viewport please.

 

Some people use 3dmax for these reasons :

1- before there was "Blender" almost all 3d modelers used 3dsmax or other expensive 3d softwares , so they got used to the interface and workflow .
2- also because it was the most common almost every software that uses 3d models can use 3dsmax files .
3 - again because it was common it was taught around the world as the software to make 3d models .
4- since it is the most famous it has more support in learning ( books, schools and universities ).

due to all these facts alot of pro modelers and 3d artists who are 8-18 years old in the 3d industry use this software and they teach people with it .

While for blender people use it because :

1- same results you get in any other 3d software ( regardless of the difficulty in achieving the results ) .
2- you dont have to pay 4000$ , you can make money after learning it for free .
3- open source , which means if you have the needed skills you can upgrade it yourself , or download what other people make .

in about another 10 years blender may become famous like 3dsmax .

 

I teach 3D modeling and getting our students jobs is as important as just getting skills.
So we focus on doing what industry and larger firms seem to want.
Most schools either pick Maya or 3DS Max (or struggle to teach both)
Blender (sadly) becomes a third option that most mainstream colleges can't find space for in the curriculum.

 

I think it would be disingenuous to say that Maya/Max only get more use because they're established and major studios can't easily switch over.
Blender has been around for a VERY long time already, yet not even many indie studios rely on it. This is significant, because using Blender would save a HUGE amount of money for the studio in theory, since they wouldn't need to buy several or even dozens of seats for thousands each.
It's not like studios haven't had years upon years to make a transition if it were actually a viable alternative.
Blender is good, but Maya/Max are better in a lot of important ways. Enough so that people are willing to shell out thousands of dollars.

Here's one example I can think of; Blender does have better extrusion/box modeling than either of the others. But compared to Maya (at least since 2015 version), the UV mapping and retopology are drastically worse.
It would be much better then to just sculpt out a model in ZBrush then UV/retopo in Maya, which many studios do.
Blender also has all kinds of wonky export limitations, which make it extremely difficult to create an FBX containing an entire scene or both a character and all it's animations. You have to create a crap load of individual files, and piece them together later.

There's also the problem with it being open source, which means that it doesn't play well with other programs like Substance Designer or ZBrush. Plugins can in some circumstances get around this, but if they lose support you're back to being screwed, and you can't expect someone to keep working on the plugin forever. On top of it always being a hacky and unstable solution in the first place.

 

You can't forget that Blender's interface sucked for a long time. It was only a few years ago when it got a complete overhaul, for the better imo. Max and Maya are reaching points in their development where there aren't too many new features to add. Blender is still "catching up", but has recently gotten to the point where it can do most of what Max and Maya can.

 

The new FBX Exporter in Blender actually works quite nicely when you specify the Up and Forward axis. It no longer applies wonky rotation in Unity.

 

If you have the cash, blender still cannot hold a candle (not even remotely) to Max. I'm talking about the endless available commercial plugin solutions of course. There's pretty much a high end solution for every problem you encounter.

With blender it can be done, there's that can-do attitude, but depending on what you want done that is either painful or not

But for free, who cares? Blender should be first port of call for any hobbyist or indie on a budget.

 

@Grimwolf ofcourse it makes a difference , since people who are using blender dont have enough experience to teach students in a university how to make professional 3d models that can be sold for alot of money(this doesnt mean they cant do pro 3d models , but they cant teach someone to do it) , and people who have this experience in blender are not that many , then the university must search for somebody who has alot of experience in 3d modelling and can teach people , which means they must find someone who works in 3d modelling for years , and since the amount of people that switch/start to learn blender has only increased recently , very low amount of people have this enough knowledge to teach someone else .

Anyway , each year indie industry grows up and the need for a free software to get the work done increases , so in the following years blender will grow and will be at the same level as 3ds max , it will take alot of years though , maybe 20 .

Also I have never knew or heard about someone who switched from blender to 3dsmax or maya , but I heard the opposite , this indicates that blender is growing .

 

I did. I've been modding games for over a decade since I was a teenager and used Blender for that. When I started working toward game art as a career, and focusing more on making my own stuff rather than altering existing assets, I learned Maya with the free student edition. I then started using Maya LT when it came out.
Well, if I remember right I used GMax or something like that for the first few years.

 

New Coke beat Old Coke in blind taste tests 2 to 1. Then they released New Coke into the market and it failed horribly. Why? Cause people had too many "feelings" associated with Old Coke. They weren't able to switch.