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I have to let go of my frustration with Unity

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jack Ryan Carter, Jan 27, 2016.

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  1. Jack Ryan Carter

    Jack Ryan Carter

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    Even if all will hate me for it, and as so often if you simply delete a common question topics or questions that I write here now down.

    For over a year since nothing is really the engine constant errors, crashes or it is nothing. I'm paying per customer, but that something does for its clients, no Unity It does not matter what its customers, apart from developers in AssetStore the 50 - require $ 150 or Euros and then from the Buyer still require the mistakes of developers has now made the customer must remove the main thing the cashier is ringing.

    On the part of Unity you have with us a subscription so you pay whether the product is or is not fully uniteressant.

    I would recommend anyone the engine, neither the company behind the stands because insterressiert to paying customers yet another developer Store is here helped with problems.

    Now I have invested around 2,000 euros for nothing and paid a very dearly, but I prefer to pay 5% for Epic as is well cared for.

    Never again have to Unity, I'm glad when the last payment is made, and nothing to do with this club.
     
  2. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Best wishes!

    Cheers,
    Lane
     
  3. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Hope you don't mind the costs of upgrading your hardware. I remember you asked back in March if Unity would run on your laptop (an Intel Pentium N354 with Intel HD). Unity may have run just fine on it but it'll struggle with UE4.
     
  4. RichardKain

    RichardKain

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    Um... good luck?

    Granted, Unity is not for everyone. And frustration is always a part of any game development project. I certainly hope that your shift over to Unreal Engine 4 solves the particular development problems you're having. It's entirely possible that Epic's engine is designed to do something naturally that isn't built into Unity by default.

    I am a little surprised about the monetary investment. I always start off playing around with the free version of an engine first, and don't go in deep on a financial investment until I'm far enough along in development to have a viable prototype.
     
  5. Jack Ryan Carter

    Jack Ryan Carter

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    Yeah that's right, I once had a laptop. But it was not satisfactorily therefore I had PROLONGED time ago a desktop PC provided along with 2 CPU Quad Core, plenty of RAM and 1 NVIDIA graphics card that came as much as a 2 my laptop GPU is planned.

    I think that this is sufficient for Unreal.


    @RichardKain
    Indeed offer Unreal much more the animator or the Material Editor is a dream, the latter can itself create more comfortable material.

     
  6. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Definitely. Just wanted to bring it up in case you were still on that laptop. Unreal has improved in performance since then but it's still heftier than Unity in resource usage.
     
  7. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    You gotta do what you gotta do. I agree being filled with frustration is no way to live. I have no idea if Unreal will be any better experience for you or anyone else. However, I definitely can understand you doing something about it. Nothing worse than someone being so frustrated yet they never change what they are doing. There is a well known quote by Einstein about that.

    Good luck! I hope you have a much better experience in the future. :)
     
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  8. goat

    goat

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    Why the English pseudo-name for your forum account?
     
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  9. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    The problems you will run into:

    No Mecanim.
    As of 4.10 root motion animation retargeting is broken.
    Using root motion for locomotion is... complicated.
    Animation is part of the charafcter instead of being interchangeable.
    Sparse C++ documentaiton.
    Epic has Blueprint fetish.

    There are also quirks, like when adding fields to UDataAsset-based C++ class may occasionally result in data loss or when engine doesn't like overly long paths on windows platform.
     
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  10. JamesLeeNZ

    JamesLeeNZ

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    that some broken english!

    Enjoy Unreal. If you struggle with Unity, you're probably not cut out for game development.
     
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  11. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Haha. Yes. Shame it can't be easily plugged into Unity.
     
  12. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Good luck. I've yet to run into problems that make it worth switching. But I'm alway interested in hearing other people's stories. Come back in a few months and let us know how the transition went.
     
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  13. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I'd rather see it unplugged from unreal. I hate blueprints.
     
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  14. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Unity has always offered a perpetual license. You don't need the subscription unless you want it and even then you don't actually need it unless you A) don't like the splash screen, B) want the dark skin, and/or C) are making $100,000.

    Reading over your initial post again, and some of the posts you've made elsewhere, is leaving me with the suspicion that you didn't actually need Unity Pro. Your sign-up date is after Unity Free gained every feature of the engine after all.

    I'm not a fan of this phrase but there are legitimate times where it just fits. Every attempt to decipher his broken English is leaving me with more and more of an impression that it matches this situation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
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  15. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    I'm guessing it's from a translator of some kind. It is very difficult to understand, which is a shame as it's probably making it hard to get assistance.
     
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  16. voltage

    voltage

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    I think the reference docs support 5 languages? I'd be very overwhelmed if they weren't in my native tongue.
     
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  17. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Could it be a mobile device messing up the words? I'm not terribly familiar with the mistakes those make.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  18. Jack Ryan Carter

    Jack Ryan Carter

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    I do not know what is so bad now whether my forum name or my english is not good. And there are some features that are not included in the staff or was recommended to me the Pro to take because I had problems with the staff at the time. I have error messages and x mails written and to find the cause, but not helped was me.

    And I think if I buy a plug-in developers in AssetStore what $ 100 or more costs, I expect that this also fixes errors and not me as a buyer. But that's about 90% is not the case that one what one has then weeks employ only error Eliminate paid.

    This is very annoying and triggers a certain frustration, I just had to make air times to me.

    I will now compare with Unreal and Unity, and then use one of two.
     
  19. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Well, the forum name really reminds me of "John Carter of Mars", but aside from that there's nothing wrong with it.

    Good luck with Unreal Engine.
     
  20. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Are you referring to the RTP asset you purchased? If I recall correctly the author offered a refund. Still though you cannot expect your problems to disappear by buying a plug-in or switching to another engine. If you're struggling getting anything done you may want to consider hiring a programmer instead.

    Either way good luck with Unreal 4. Hope it fulfills your needs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
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  21. goat

    goat

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    That sounds about right but the OP should have created at forum name in their native tongue because chances are someone that reads the forums would know that language and be able to help them. However, like the other poster I think the OP just needs Unity Free but wants Unity Pro, thinking it will make making a game easier. It won't.
     
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  22. Tomza

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    Go with UE4 then, but remember that UE4 is much more difficult to learn and use. The C++ documentation is a true pain for beginners; the blueprint system isn't for a professional work. I switched to UE4 because it's better for my current project. I write C++ code and have tons of features for free - all I need. If you are an experienced game developer and writing C++ is easy for you, even don't think, only go into work.
     
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  23. Jack Ryan Carter

    Jack Ryan Carter

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    Either way gNo to this developer is not using this everything was ok, the problems began later, the communication also was not about the Forum this was written all by e-mail.

    goat:

    I have my reasons and they are entitled to why I have chosen for the name
     
  24. alexzzzz

    alexzzzz

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    It's always interesting to read Unity vs Unreal comparison reviews from people that have experience in both.
     
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  25. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I agree. If more people would discuss the challenges they are facing as well as the potential solutions they have tried we'd all benefit from it.
     
  26. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    What other those other features are you talking about with Pro?
     
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  27. JamesLeeNZ

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    In this case it might not be super useful. I can barely make sense of half the stuff he says. English is the hardest language out though, so dont blame him at all. Would not want to learn English as a second language myself.
     
  28. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Yes. Many people struggle with it as their first let alone if it's their second or even third.
     
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  29. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Good question. @Jack Ryan Carter,are you using Unity 5? If so, aside from a splash screen there's no functional difference between Personal and Pro.
     
  30. JamesLeeNZ

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    He's all about the dark skin.
     
  31. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    He was using 5.1.2 as of August. Saw it when glancing over his post history (he made his profile private now I see).
     
  32. delinx32

    delinx32

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    I don't get these posts about bugs and crashes. Unity always seems stable to me. Once in a while it crashes (usually due to something I did that was stupid) and I lose work, but I can only blame myself when I put a debug.log in a huge loop.
     
  33. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    To be honest... same here. But I see others having quite different experiences, at the same office with the same version of Unity working on the same project. I haven't really looked into why, but I do know some people have more/less luck than others.
     
  34. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Same here. The only time we really see crashes is when we connect to Reflector. It's 100% of the time and happened several times while our unity rep was here. ;). Beyond that unity is pretty stable for us across multiple versions.

    Though I have noticed a lot of the issues that people are reporting here and in editor support seem to on Windows machines. Dunno if it is less stable on Windows (or even just win 10) than on Macs.
     
  35. tswalk

    tswalk

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    About a month ago I spent a day or so reading Epics forums and attempted to find solid projects that were "complete," published, and successful... by independent persons or studios. didn't find much of anything honestly.

    Could be because I was looking or searching for the wrong thing, but it just seemed to me that once you get past the glitter the metal was dull.
     
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  36. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I have experience with both and I could write a comparison, but AFAIK hippo always nukes those kinds of threads. Should I bother writing that?
     
  37. alexzzzz

    alexzzzz

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    I would say, of course you should, but it's your time and your decision.

    The common problem with such comparisons is that most of them are superficial or the authors have the real experience in one engine only. However, it's also interesting to read poeple's impressions when they switch to a different engine which they don't have deep knowledge of.

    <offtop>
    I find it to be very easy. You just copy-paste words from a dictionary and put them in a certain order. No idea how good or bad my English is, but no one has complained yet. :D
    </offtop>
     
  38. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Where did you get that idea?
    http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty

    Hardest ones (for people born in european language groups) are chinese, japanese, korean and arabic.
    English is the hardest only if you were born within eastern language group, because they have completely different rules.

    The biggest problem is pronunciation, aside from that it is fairly simple. Heck, english verbs don't even change based on gender.
     
  39. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Goes like this (bits and pieces, in no particular order). Please note that I haven't worked with every system, so there are gaps in this comparison.

    • Unreal 4 has steeper learning curve compared to Unity. Engine is fairly tough to get used to.
    • Unreal 4 has fairly sparse C++ documentation, you frequently need to dive into code if you need to figure something. "Code dive" would require quite skilled programmer.
    • Large portion of unreal community is completely incompetent. It really resembles a kindergarten at times. There are also some complete nutcases, like people (which are moderators) that for some incomprehensible reason oppose BSP with religous fervor. (Unity doesn't have BSP at all).
    • For whatever reason epic has unhealthy fascination with their blueprint system. For traditional programmer, that kind of "noodle programming" will get in the way routinely, because most of the docs are centered around blueprints, which won't help you when you need to do something in C++.
    • Unreal 4 has more features out of the box. Behavior Tress are not available in unity by default. Node-based material editor is not available by default. There's no Matinee in unity.
    • Unreal has no mecanim. There's no replacement system for mecanim, animation retargeting doesn't work that well, and as of 4.10.1 root motion retargeting is broken.
    • Unreal engine really hates when you try to use root motion for locomotion movement. You're expected to use "capsule-based" quake-style movement with root motion being used for attacks or special moves.
    • Default animation skeleton is superior in Unreal 4. Unity humanoid skeleton does not include any kind of props and can only retarget body movement. Meaning that in unity if you're transferring complex sword movement from one character to another, you're royally screwed and will need to ensure that both skeletons have same bone topology and names. Unreal's default skeleton includes bones for inverse kinematics, weapon and prop bones as well, and you can use your own skeleton too, if you want it.
    • Due to animation system difference, in Unreal 4 animation is pretty much inseparable part of the character. In unity engine animations (humanoid ones) are interchangeable between characters.
    • There's no direct equialent to unity's prefab in unreal engine. You have Object Blueprint. However, here's the catch - it is not a prefab, but an object class. New object type. Also, blueprinted objects currently cannot have baked lightmaps (that'll be probably fixed at some point). You'll be using meshes instead of prefabs in unreal 4. Unlike unity, blueprinted objects can be nested, but working with them is awkward.
    • Unreal engine has superior engine performance. You can dump few thousand objects into scene easily it will work.
    • Unreal engine does not have baked occlusion, like unity. Instead object visibility is determined by previously rendered frame. That can result in very noticeable flickering when you're rapidly moving around (you'll see skybox in places where object is supposed to be), unless you take care of that by filling walls with "placeholder" geometry. That's very weird design decision, comparable to blueprint fetish, but you can probably fix that by rolling out custom occlusion/pvs code. There's some sort of systemthat is supposed to be used on mobile platforms, but it is half-assed and basically create 2d grid of cells. meaning it won't work well with highly 3d structures.
    • Lightmass and default rendering are vastly superior in unreal, hands down. Now, default lighting is sorta has "dramatic" (like gears of wars) feeling to it, but post-processing effects and quality of everything is suprior. Heck, you can make particles glow and those particles will create lens-flares.
    • Particle system (Cascade) in UE4 is significantly more powerful that unity one, has GPU particles support, BUT! For some reason UE4 decided to try to develop new particle system (Niagara?) aaand they forgot to do that for some time. So cascade is sorta "abandoned", Niagara isn't there, and situation is sorta weird.
    • There's significant differneces in object model. In Unity "Everything is a GameObject" and "GameObject can have components". In unreal "Any thing in a world is AActor" and AActor consists of components. Meaning, that gun on your character might not be a another actor, but a component. It takes a bit of time to wrap your head around that, because the model doesn't always make sense. For example, ACharacter may have UPathFollowingComponent that is attached to it and only governs pathfinding. It also may have MovementComponent that controls movement, etc.
    • In UE4 there's significan historical weight in the codebase. You can occasionally spot fps roots of the engine. Some components are quite big. For example, ACharacter is about 200 kilobytes of C++ code, that aside from movmenet also deals with several motion modes, network replication, etc. That's very different from unity's ThirdPersonController which you can write from scratch in few hours.
    • UE4 has completely superior animation system. First, you get to decide how animations blend. Animation state machine allows you to specify custom conditions for transitions (via blasted blueprints), while in unity all animation conditions are restricted to "AND" operator which can't be changed. There are also "routine" nodes (called conduits) which can allow you to specify common routes in statemachine.
    • Also, there's no equivalent to "Montages" in unity. Montage is animation strip composed from linear clip, except that at some point you can decide (via code or blueprint) which clip will be playing next. it is incredibly useful for chaining attacks, comboes, and such, and making the same thing via statemachine is royal pain in the ***. On other hand there's glitch in slot naming mechanism, that may or may not be fixed in the future.
    • I'd say that I get better experience with support with UE4. While community is completely useless, it is possible to get response directly from developer. In unity that happens rarely or never. That's probably because there's only one version of UE4.
    • People were praising openworld tools, although I didn't have much chance to use those.
    • Unity's ScriptableObjects are more stable than UDataAssets. Modifying UDataAsset C++ class may easily result in data loss (upon restart editor will delete the asset). That doesn't happen in UNity.
    • Working with unreal's content browser is awkward. Moving object from one folder to another is a dangerous procedure that may result in data loss. The reason for that is UE4 relies on object path, while unity relies on object id. On other hand using paths makes transferring data between projects easier.
    • UE4 is more resource hungry. Working with editor on 8gb system is very likely to be uncomfortable. It also eats HDD space like popcorn. Even simple project will be bigger.
    • UE4 asset story is nearly empty and everything in there is extremely expensive.
    • UE4 editor is significantly more pleasant to work with than unity one.
    • UE4 Physics system is more robust. There's destructible object support, you can blend animation with ragdolls out of the box, and performance of collision queries is faster and more robust.
    • There's definite feeling that UE4 engine is being improved at faster rate and bugs are being fixed at faster rate than in unity. Also, you can always attempt to submit bugfix yourself.
    • No source code access in Unity. That one can be a tide-turner depending on nature of the project.
    • UE4 can blend dynamic shadows with lightmaps properly. You can designate light as "stationary" and engine will precompute its shadows but properly blend them with dynamic shadows from object. That's equiavlent to how "mixed" lighting is suppsoed to work in Unity, except Mixed lighting has been broken forever. The caveat that at any given point of scene you can only have 4 stationary lights overlapping. Directional stationary light will affect entire scene.

    Also see "Swtich from unity to unreal engine" blogpost.

    Basically, issues in both engines, Unity is easier to get started with, UE4 produces better visuals and is more solid BUT it is very likely that making UE4 project will cost more (no mecanim). More features in UE4 out of the box, some of those features are great.

    In general, if someone is making an FPS then UE4 will be a better choice, BUT if someone is making 2d game or isometric game, then unity might be a better idea, especially if visuals don't matter much (because Enlighten as of now is nigh unusable) and/or engine is using stylyzed graphics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
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  40. Tomza

    Tomza

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    I have been working on a big 3D project for many months. First, I made a demo with Unity3D. It was over 2.7 GB because the app was complex and there was much logic. The logic worked really slow, parenting many objects sucked and my client wasn't glad to experience that. I realized Unity3D isn't for big and serious apps; it's for small mobile and/or 2D games. I needed a really professional tool to meet my client requirements, so we made a decision to use UE4. The app for production will be many Gigs of data - I can't even imagine using Unity3D for that. Too much logic, objects, functionalities, etc. Hopefully UE4 will do the work because I have a full control with C++. I can program whatever I want.

    The feature that is missing in Unity3D is the possibility of programming in C++. If Unity Team really want to make Unity3D a professional tool, they should replace UnityScript with C++. In my opinion, both C# and C++ should be supported. Besides, I have doubts in supporting 32-bit versions of Unity3D.

    But of course Unity3D is perfect for small projects. UE4 is too big cannon for that I think.
     
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  41. Ryiah

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    You can write whatever you want in either engine. Just don't expect it to perform well if you don't design it well.
     
  42. Tomza

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    It's true that it's hard to find something. I think UE4 is too big tool for "independent persons or studios". You need to be really good to create "solid projects that were "complete," published, and successful" as one person. But there are such people in the world.

    I personally have made a few testing projects with UE4 to test its features for my project. Over 15 years in programming including 7 in game development and I am still learning like crazy because I have impression that my knowledge isn't enough. However, my project is a true challenge. A user will be able to use our 3D app not only as a game but also as an editor. A user should have much control over the 3D environment. Many things will be procedural, so the logic will be really complex.
     
  43. Tomza

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    It's not always question of design. Maybe I'm wrong (I haven't used Unity 3D for a long time), but it seems as if Unity3D API was limited in comparison with that of UE4. For me, UE4 and C++ is the sea of possibilities limited only by my imagination. I can add not only plugins, but also external libraries. All compiled into one piece of software. There's more freedom for me in UE4. Is there something for creating 3D objects from 2D photos in Unity3D? There's nothing in UE4 either, but we can easily write such a module and add to the code engine. That's that I love in UE4.
     
  44. Ryiah

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    What's the name of the module?
     
  45. Dantus

    Dantus

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    Not sure why a discussion about UE4 is starting. Everyone who knows how to use google to check the previous posts of the original poster will easily find out that there is a fair bit of a lack of technical understanding and not enough dedication to problem solving. If those important factors are missing, game development becomes impossible with almost every engine.

    Edit: -2 typos
     
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  46. alexzzzz

    alexzzzz

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    The OP wanted to try Unreal and compare it to Unity to make the decision what suits him better. Regardless of his own skills, it's nice to have a general idea of what kind problems one can expect.
     
  47. Jack Ryan Carter

    Jack Ryan Carter

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    I have now a little busy with UE4 and have come to the conclusion UE4 to use for our Projecte.

    If some did not understand it, it bothers me when I purchase a Product and at the end of so many errors in it, so I have to change them yourself completely and for it $ 100 or more to pay and the developer does not help.

    and this is not about unity but about the assets, but also Unity crashes repeatedly or just finished so and the various systems under 5, various Windows systems and hardware. I have this test done to rule out that it is a hardware or system failure. So I can put up some good such assertions.

    And of Unity itself was recommended to me the Pro version to use then I would have no more problems. I had therefore to leave the company this then changes what, but it was not like that.

    Although some think are Unreal would be too bloated and resource hungry even with Unreal can games develop in the low level range and nice textures, the 256 x 512, these experiments has been done and the result looks impressive, can be found at Google it ,

    I wish everyone good luck with the own Projects, but you should be aware there are not only Unity on this market.
     
  48. Tomza

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    The module hasn't been created yet. I have another developer to help me with this work because it is a big challenge for me. As soon as it will be created, it will be hopefully included in the UE4 code seamlessly. I won't experience such irritating things like unstable Unity plugins (I bought many of them for my project - the demo). Most plugins seemed to me at Beta stage when I was using Unity3D. I don't know maybe it has been changed recently, but I doubt. UE4 has these features in-built, so it's a big difference when you write a serious application that will be running in the production environment. However, I consider using Unity3D for making 3D interactive tutorials for the users of our application.
     
  49. Ryiah

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  50. JamesLeeNZ

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    you forget about all the variations of english/slang/expressions/sarcasm/innuendo.

    All very confusing if its not your first language.

    English IS the hardest language to master. Just be grateful you learnt it from being born.
     
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