Search Unity

  1. Megacity Metro Demo now available. Download now.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Unity support for visionOS is now available. Learn more in our blog post.
    Dismiss Notice

How many people have games on steam?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by roger0, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208
    I just built my first game, and trying to get it greenlit. I'm wondering how many other people have games on steam and if its very realistic to get on there. Has it made you rich?

    thanks!
     
  2. JamesLeeNZ

    JamesLeeNZ

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    5,616
    I expect those ppl dont post on the forums anymore.

    too busy rolling around in all that money
     
    AwesomeX and zDemonhunter99 like this.
  3. zDemonhunter99

    zDemonhunter99

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Posts:
    478
    LOL, that's true. I'm pretty sure most of them don't even have a forum account.
     
  4. randomperson42

    randomperson42

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Posts:
    974
    But some of us get so sick of rolling in our money that we get bored and look to the forums.
     
  5. RockoDyne

    RockoDyne

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Posts:
    2,234
    Because HarvesteR totally didn't just post in the forum like a couple hours ago. His baby being kerbal space program.

    There are some that pop in, but it's not too common. I have to imagine it's mostly some combination of too busy and not paving new trails and coming to the forums for ideas/support.
     
  6. calmcarrots

    calmcarrots

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    I would never abandon my forum account, even if I got a crap load of money.....


    nah im just screwin with u ofc I will never come back lol
     
  7. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    I drop in from time to time but we're usually pretty busy developing, contributing to Unity beta testing, and engaging our community.

    To answer the OP, Steam is no longer the golden goose that some folks think it is. To have any chance of success you need to spend a good amount of time marketing your game and building a community of followers early on in development so that you can first get through Greenlight, and then come launch day you can drive a lot of traffic and sales to Steam, giving you the greatest chance of hitting the Feature Section on the store home page and more importantly staying there for as long as possible. If you don't, sure you may get your 3 days on the store page (its even less now), but you'll drop off soon after with very little to show. Even the biggest historical golden goose of the feature section isn't delivering for some developers. If you do amass a small army of supporters you can email for support at key times, chances are you've got a great game and you'll do well.

    As for 'getting rich', some devs publish their figures on www.gamasutra.com, although they often break distribution contracts in doing so. You'll discover unexpected failures and immense success stories for #madewithunity games involving several million dollars in revenue. Success depends on bringing the right game to market at the right time with the right team backed by a good sales and marketing strategy. That can still be a one man team if they are a superstar, but delivering success also requires a lot of non-technical skills in business and marketing.

    The absolute best thing you can do to maximise your chance of success is to start making a kickass game that people want to play. The rest becomes a lot easier if you start there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  8. calmcarrots

    calmcarrots

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Posts:
    654
    Bro, I had your game on my wishlist for a while now ahha. I didnt even know that the devs used unity AND are partly active in the forums. Good for you guys! Cant wait to put my game on greenlight though haha
     
  9. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208

    thanks for the reply. My game looks good enough to be taken seriously, but it lacks gameplay. It can be finished in about 3 - 7 hours because there's only 6 levels. So I have trouble visualizing a fan base getting behind it like minecraft.

    Also, can you say how much percentage steam takes from sales?
     
  10. Wild-Factor

    Wild-Factor

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Posts:
    607
    Well steam is not like it use to be.
    Before it was ultra-hard to be on steam, but you will be sure to get a lot of money (above 100k $ at least).
    Now steam has open the gate, and during the first months of 2014 they release as much game than during the entire 2013. So you have at least 4 times more game to compete with. So there is a good chance that the revenue is divid by 4 (and from the numbers gathered from number I'ver accessed, it looks like it).

    Also steam as made some modification: the release tab are not the first tab selected on the page store => release exposure and sales are reduce drastically.
    Early acces game are not on the release list anymore.

    For each type of game you have a unique way to build a community. So it's not as easy like people say: time = community. You need a game that talk to people. I mean good is not enough. A game that people enjoy is not enough.
    You need to make a game that look good on youtube. A game that make people talk to each other. A game that people can pitch each other.
    Your time spend on marketing only multiply the marketing quality of your game.
    For example super meatboy: you talk to your friend about the difficulty.

    Be aware that statically 20% of game only pay what they cost. And don't be fool too much by the number you get on gamasutra. Only successfull game published their numbers...

    What ever people say there is a hard work factor, and a luck factor. The people you met (some good, some bad for your business), the opportunity you get, the youtuber that cover you. There is a snow ball rolling effect. Success call for success. And if you get a top youtuber to test your game, there is a good chance that others will follow.
    Hard work / talent / time only reduce this part of luck.

    Don't do game if you want to be rich!
    Most other industry have a better ratio.
     
    Jaqal and calmcarrots like this.
  11. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    Luck is indeed one of the ingredients, and as Wild Factor has said it's influence can be reduced through talent and hard work. You wouldn't become a full-time indie if you were in it for the money, as the probability is you'd earn more plying your skills elsewhere. Just as in the music industry however, there is an opportunity to break through into the big leagues.

    For Steam's cut, it's public knowledge and can be found via Google.
     
    AndrewGrayGames likes this.
  12. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Posts:
    3,821
    To the bold: yes. I'm a full-time programmer, and I earn my pay in a more standard 8A-5P job. However...for about an hour every night after I get off work, I do stuff on my little projects (currently my 3D Tile Pack). I love it. Even if I never earn more than $100, it means I'm part of a great community, and a more informed consumer. What's more, my Unity works are responsible for my current job, so you could say I've already won; a ballpark hit game would be "gravy", albeit Delicious Gravy of +33 Awesome Sauce.

    EDIT: That said, I want my Delicious Gravy of +33 Awesome Sauce. And, I am capable of spelling sauce correctly. See?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  13. HarvesteR

    HarvesteR

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Posts:
    531
    KSP is on Steam, and I'm still lurking about here, and posting whenever I get a chance or the game is taking too long to load, so that myth is busted I guess. :)

    Like GamesFoundry said, being on Steam isn't a magic cash-making thing. KSP wasn't on Steam for a very long time (this was before Early Access and Greenlight were a thing also), because we didn't want it to be on Steam too early. KSP was still evolving, and going on Steam too soon could have backfired on us.

    Steam can be a double-edged sword. Yes, you expose your game to a much larger crowd of potential players... But on the other hand, you expose your game to a much larger crowd of potential players.

    So make sure your game is ready for that spotlight. :)

    Cheers
     
  14. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    'Make sure your game is ready' - I absolutely second that based on our own experience of Early Access.

    Early Access has involved a lot of pioneering for the early adopters, and I'm sure HarvesteR would agree that the amount of learning is huge. The experience completely changes your understanding of what to do and what to avoid, and I'm not sure it's something you can ever truly prepare yourself for.
     
  15. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Posts:
    3,821
    So since experienced and successful developers are posting here, this seems like a great place to ask.

    What is a good way to get a project to a 'Steam-ready' state, especially for a small team/one-man band (in other words, with limited resources)? Is it a good idea to post webplayer beta builds until the quality is there? Are there more efficient ways of refining a game to be Steam-ready?
     
  16. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    For full launch or Early Access?
     
  17. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Posts:
    3,821
    Full launch. But that leads to an equally good question: what considerations go with Early Access? It seems like most games on Steam that go with Early Access are usually highly unfinished, sometimes even barely playable. That can't be the right way to do it.
     
  18. HarvesteR

    HarvesteR

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Posts:
    531
    That's very true. Not every game is compatible with Early Access. For instance, I couldn't fathom trying to release an adventure game in early access... How would you plug the gaps in a game that heavily relies on a complete storyline? And even if you do, if a game has very low replay value, why would an early access player come back to it even if it is more polished?

    Early access is something you have to design for, from as early as the initial concept. You have to have a game that can be playable in a minimally complete state, and not only has room (and direction) to grow, it must also have mid-way stopping points to do releases at.

    Not all games fit those requirements, but that's not a fault in itself. The publishing scheme has to be chosen to fit the game you have, or you have to design a game to fit the publishing options available to you.


    I wouldn't call myself an expert in such things, but to try and answer the initial question, what I would do to gauge 'readiness' is to publish the game on its own community first, where you can gather a small (and very helpful) group of early players, which will give you invaluable feedback. From there to being 'ready for steam', there is no roadmap (accidental pun is welcome), but once you have people playing your game, you'll be able to get a general sense of it.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
    NomadKing and AndrewGrayGames like this.
  19. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208
    I don't think so, it says on steamworks they don't discuss royalties publicly, and I cant find any obvious google searches that pop anything up except speculation. http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php.

    Well, game making is my passion, but I need to make money also. I'm living with my parents and not working at any job so I can dedicate myself to game making 24/7.

    But if I'm not getting any success i'll have to move out, find a job, and join the rest!
     
  20. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    It's pretty late on Friday night, and I'm waiting on the next build to regression test before tomorrow's patch, but I'll try my best.

    The premise is really about starting with yourself at the center of a circle, then keep expanding the radius to take in more and more feedback from increasingly further afield.

    The first circle is yourself. Is your game playable, fun, and robust? Self-criticising a work of passion objectively is a tough thing to do, but you should have a good idea if you think it's ready or not, and how it stands up to competition already on Steam.

    The second circle extends to friends and family, but only if you tell them to rip into it and be ruthless with the truth.

    The third circle includes game dev peers - go to local dev meetups or weekend gamejam and share your game.

    The fourth circle is to reach out to potential players around the world, and to do that you've got to make them aware of your game. Put together a teaser video containing almost exclusively gameplay footage and put it up on YouTube. Have a website with images and a newsletter sign up form. Then you can start building a database of interested players. We did this from early on, and by EA launch day we had around 19,000 people to email. When you're ready you can contact those people with a demo that they can download, play, and provide feedback on. Encourage them to record let's play videos and post you unlisted video links, or have an online survey for them to complete ( which you could incentivise with a suitable prize like a free copy of the final game ).

    It's the final circle that will tell you whether you are ready for Steam. If you can't build a pre-release community, that's your answer right there. Your game isn't ready. Even if your game is ready, it's also a good test of whether you as a person are ready. The process of building that pre-release community will equip you with some of the business and marketing skills you'll need once you're on Steam.

    Early Access is best suited to sandbox games. Other games can work, but only when they are very close to completion, in which case EA can be used more of a promotional vehicle for obtaining final feedback. Early Access is maturing very quickly from what was arguably the wild west of the early days. Players are demanding more on all fronts: more gameplay, more quality, more updates, more communication, more involvement. I've seen games release recently that have flopped in Early Access that a year ago might have done well.

    The best way to prepare yourself for Steam is to make a high quality game that offers something new. Something that people want to talk about. KSP excelled in that area. Do that, and the battle is half won.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  21. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    You won't find it on Ask or Yahoo Answers. You need to read post-mortem write ups and even do a little number crunching, but it's out there.
     
  22. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208
    I see, I guess your not able to tell us!

    I try not to let my games get to complicated, but at the same time they have to be good enough to get on steam. I'm stuck between making a great game and making a quick one in order to fail faster.
     
  23. yoonitee

    yoonitee

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Posts:
    2,363
    I put a game on Greenlight. I think it will be on Greenlight for a very long time! ~:p~ Worth a try though. :D It's £60 and you can put as many games as you want on it. You get lots of votes in the first week and then it goes down to a trickle. So you have to do your own marketing. I think getting on Steam is 90% marketing 10% quality of game.

    I don't see how it would make you rich. Any more than putting a game on the iPad app store.

    Also, you don't need Steam to be rich. Look at Minecraft. They just sell it from their website and they are multimillionaires.
     
  24. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Posts:
    813
    lol funny thing about minecraft... i swear one of the big reasons it became so popular is how "crappy" it looks... people say "hey you should play this game its real cool! check out these screenshots!" ... (which happens with plenty of games) , but when people see how crappy the game looks in the screenshot they think "whoa wtf!!?! what is this crappy looking game! its supposed to be good? LOLOLOL!! i gotta see this crap!!"

    yeah, people play games because they are fun... im just saying the "crappy graphics" and the peoples impression of such, had at least Some effect in popularizing the game. (it personally did to me)

    probably the same with flappy bird too..

    -- that was how i got into minecraft ... lol i played the HECK out of it too! .. its pretty cool by itself, but mods made it AWESOME
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  25. randomperson42

    randomperson42

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Posts:
    974
    People like to play games that are fun. Minecraft is fun. I don't think many people play it just because it has "crappy" graphics. ...This is off-topic though.
     
  26. Jaqal

    Jaqal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    288
    That is certainly true. When I started making my game I wasn't thinking of getting rich I did it because I love videogames and creating things. I spend 8 to 10 hours a day working on my project because I love doing it. Staying up until three am and dreaming about it at night. If you truly love something and pour your heart and soul into it it will show. It will also show if you create something don't trying to make money of of others.
     
  27. Demigiant

    Demigiant

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Posts:
    3,239
    I got Greenlit a while ago with Goscurry but for bureaucratic reasons had to postpone the Steam release. I should move my ass so I'll be able to let you know :p
     
    NomadKing likes this.
  28. RockoDyne

    RockoDyne

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Posts:
    2,234
    It does seem like a lot of games are basically taking flack for showing how the sausage is made (okay, it's technically because they are selling the sausage before it's been made but just follow me). It's almost a tradition that a game doesn't start to gel into what it ends up as until a couple months before the end, especially in bigger studios that have to duct tape together the parts they can complete and toss what they can't. Good early access games seem more dependent on their actual development methodology and genre.
     
  29. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208
    Anyone else have games on steam? How much are you making?
     
  30. realghetto

    realghetto

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2014
    Posts:
    112
    Steam is "NOt What it used to be". Think of Steam as you thought of IndieDB (Previously Desura.com) 2 years ago. This is where Steam is now. It's now not difficult to get on Steam and I can assure you, the devs are no longer rolling in money.

    (Source: 1 games on Steam).
     
  31. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Posts:
    763
    I'm curious, how big is that small army in numbers? I don't need an exact number, just approximately, 'cause I can't even guess.
     
  32. Jaqal

    Jaqal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    288
    Well you could do some simple math to get a general idea. For example if you had 1000 people following your game who were guaranteed to buy it and you sold that game on steam for $20 that's $20, 000. Now you have to figure steam takes thier cut which I've heard is 30% (don't quote me) that would leave you $14, 000 before taxes. Then you factor in your cost of production as well as the taxes you will have to pay (which would be different for every situation) and you can get a general idea.
     
  33. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Posts:
    763
    Ah yes that's all fine, I understand that. I should have better phrased my question better. I meant about the aproximate numbers it would take to pass Greenlight (10k? 50k? 100k? yes I know its not always the same) and numbers to not wander far away from the "top", after the initial release, or when you have an update or something. Sorry, I'm on painkillers.
     
  34. Demigiant

    Demigiant

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Posts:
    3,239
    It's not a fixed amount of votes. Votes actually help the Greenlight people to choose, but in the end it's always them that choose. Personally, I passed it with around 5k yes votes.
     
  35. RockoDyne

    RockoDyne

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Posts:
    2,234
    Kinda missing the point. It's not about having a thousand people who will buy your game. It's about having a thousand people who will make noise about your game. It's the actual community who will care about what you do and will actively support your endeavors.
     
  36. ChrisSch

    ChrisSch

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Posts:
    763
    Yes that's sort of the numbers I'm asking about. Thanks for speaking them for me. lol xD
     
  37. Jaqal

    Jaqal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    288
    Believe me I haven't missed the point. I was just trying to answer his question.

    In my honest opinion all of these questions are pretty silly because people asking for numbers about other people's games makes no sense. Every game created will be different, have different price points, cost's of production, released in different ways, marketed different ways, have its unique set of obstacles, etc.

    Not to mention as people keep saying steam isn't what it used to be. Even if you get greenlit there's no guarantee you will even make a profit. With so many games being created everyday you have more competition than ever before in an ever changing already flooded market.

    You should be more interested in making a quality game and doing something you enjoy, not if it will sell well or if you'll make a profit. No statistics or numbers will guarantee or even give you an accurate estimate of what your specific game will need to be successful. You could have thousands of followers who seem interested but when your game is released no-one actually likes playing it or lose interest and you never make a dime. It happens everyday.
     
  38. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    Absolutely true, not only because having a high quality game makes marketing easier ( and getting through Greenlight ), but because on long projects you're going to get momentum dips. Being passionate about the game you're making helps get you through more challenging times.
     
  39. Rico21745

    Rico21745

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Posts:
    409
    My game was green lit about a year ago now. I'm still working on it since I refuse to release something I'm not happy with.

    I fully intend to use Early Access since its a sandbox, however, my standards of quality seem to far differ from other Early Access titles out there. There's some decent ones, though.
     
  40. DocLogic

    DocLogic

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Posts:
    69
    Great thread!

    Have any of you launched your game on any PC platforms other than steam? Or been involved with a bundle? This greenlight situation is getting a bit out of hand, way to many games flooding steam. Will be interesting to see the state of steam in 2+ years. Hopefully it won't look like Xbox Live Indie Games by then, because it seems to be heading that way.
     
  41. Rico21745

    Rico21745

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Posts:
    409
    Steam will only get more crowded over time. I expect it will get much worse.
     
  42. RockoDyne

    RockoDyne

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Posts:
    2,234
    Especially with all the bullshit publishers that appear to get carte blache rights to put up anything they want.
     
  43. DocLogic

    DocLogic

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Posts:
    69
    That's a bummer. I wonder what they could do to help prevent this. Raise the price from $100 to like $2000 to get your game up on greenlight? Maybe create a separate store for greenlight games, and the "best" games could be brought over to the main store? Have user-run sub-stores, where the users approve the games they want on their stores?
     
  44. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208
    Then again, more of us would not get a chance to sell our games if they raise their standards.
     
  45. randomperson42

    randomperson42

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Posts:
    974
    But that's the point. If it's not a great game, it doesn't need to be on Steam.
     
  46. DocLogic

    DocLogic

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Posts:
    69
    Yes exactly, too many people are getting a chance.. If the barriers to entry were a bit higher, developers would (hopefully) spend more time refining their games.
     
  47. roger0

    roger0

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Posts:
    1,208
    I'm thinking only the huge triple A companies will be able to get on steam.

    But I understand if you mean getting bugs fixed and making sure the game works. It's the shear scale and content that sets most indies back.
     
  48. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    If you are a small indie, please don't be under the misconception that the lowering of barriers to entry by Steam giving every indie their own store front is a golden goose. It isn't. You only need look at the iOS store to see where it's heading. Even if you have a Steam store page, you will make zero sales unless you take control of marketing early on and are ready to launch with a heap of promotion. Only by driving traffic and sales to your store page will Steam take note and consider featuring you. Even if you have a good game and are lucky enough to get featured at launch, without promotion you will very quickly fall down the ranks and be forgotten.

    As soon as you know what your final game will look like, I'd recommend writing and executing your marketing plan and start building a community. It's possible to promote a game with no marketing budget, but only by putting in a lot of time and effort in building a community over many months and getting YouTuber's to pay an interest in you. It's why making a high quality fun game is essential, because great games draw attention via PR and help word of mouth, both of which are free.

    You get one shot come launch day, and you need to be firing all your guns until your kegs run dry to maximize your chances. Failure means your game is instantly forgotten and you'll struggle to recover without a big community to call on. With Steam players having an average of something like 30% of their library as yet unplayed due to Steam Sales, competition for player face time has never been fiercer.

    Marketing doesn't have to involve you spending money, but it does require way more time than you are probably allocating currently. In fact if you do have money to spend, I'd invest it in increasing the quality of your game and marketing materials instead.

    IMHO the window of opportunity for the one man indie has become exceedingly narrow. Many were drawn to mobile, but that market is now saturated and dominated by only a few. During that time desktop also moved on. Small indies are getting squeezed out. As markets mature, typically industries undergo consolidation through mergers and acquisition. So why not consider teaming up with others who compliment your skills and make a better game? That however requires a completely different set of skills to development or marketing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  49. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,616
    Personally I see it as the opposite. Either we compete to get on there, or we compete for attention when we get there. I'd much rather the focus was on the former, because I think a higher quality bar increases a) willingness to purchase and b) potential purchase prices. If iOS and Android's stores are examples of what happens when the flood gates are opened I don't understand why people want the same of Steam. I mean, don't people want their game on Steam in part because it's not like iOS and Android?
     
  50. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    632
    Although I'd see it as a great opportunity that removes yet another barrier for indies, I still wouldn't see it as a golden goose - being a guarantee that you'll get golden eggs. Sure, having a steam store page does mean that any marketing effort a dev does has the maximum chance of converting a hot prospect on the spot. But it also dilutes your sales across a broader time frame, and that's not what you want if your aim is to get featured on Steam's front page and earn yourself some golden eggs. Even then it's no guarantee. To achieve a feature slot you need to be at least in the top 50, and that goes off hourly sales (needs confirming). So a game either needs heaps of launch promotion, and/or to gain traction over time to generate great sales on a lasting basis ( such as Rust, KSP, Starbound etc ).

    Steam players AFAIK hate nothing more than flash or mobile ports ( or anything that looks like a low budget indie game ). Sales will continue to flow to high quality fun games that offer a new or improved experience. I'm not personally concerned as I think Steam will remain business as usual - hard work producing a quality product while building a community.

    Are there any devs from Rust, The Forest, WFTO viewing? Perhaps you'd like to share your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014