Guts and Glory (old, original post)

UPDATE: Due to the significant changes to this project, I'm creating a brand new post, rather than updating this, to avoid confusing anyone new to the thread. Thanks again for everyone who gave me valuable input here. As a result, the final game will have the option to turn children and blood/gore ON/OFF!

NOTE: There is an ongoing conversation about this on the Guts and Glory Steam Concepts page as well.

ORIGINAL POST BELOW:

So, I've been working on this project over the past year and really want to know what my fellow game devs think. This is my first project. I spent about 6 months doing tutorials and messing around, then about 12 months in my very limited spare time building this. I've got all the core gameplay mechanics in place, and now just have to flesh it out with more content, a level editor, a back-end system, etc.

Here's the "teaser" announcement trailer:

***I have removed the original video. Please see the new post instead. Thank you.***

I just put everything on my website a couple days ago, and just posted it to Steam Concepts yesterday (any votes/comments there would be freakin' awesome too). I shotgun announced it on social media but still need to put a real marketing plan into place, and network, and get the word out there... probably the hardest part of being in this industry.

However, now I'm panicking! I'm worried that nobody will like it, or care, or even know about it! I had a stupid fantasy in my head that the world would go ga-ga over this and it would go viral overnight. I know I have a lot of marketing and networking to do to get the word out there, but right now I'm just worried that I should have been getting feedback much earlier on--to make sure people even want a game like this. To see if there's even demand for a game like this. I made the mistake of keeping my project under wraps for way too long and now I'm hoping I didn't waste my time!

So... all that being said, I really hope y'all will take a moment to review this work-in-progress, and let me know what you think. I'm not looking for any "pick-me-ups", but just honest feedback and ideas. Does it look fun? Will people want to buy a game like this? What's good? What's bad? Ideas for marketing this and getting lots of people to even know about it? To get votes on Steam, etc?

I greatly appreciate any input you have and will love you forever if you help share this project with others!

***I have removed the original screenshots. Please see the new post instead. Thank you.***

For lots more info, feel free to check out my website. There's social media links on there as well.

www.HakJak.com

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope you have an awesome day!

 

I think its a strange idea to put a child in there, you will have a big risk of getting stuck in a S*** storm that way. Other than that it looks pretty cool.

 

To me it doesn't look fun. That doesn't mean it is a bad game. It's just not something I am interested in.

As far as "will people want to buy a game like this?"... short answer yes. There will almost certainly always be at least a few people (2 to 3 maybe more) who would buy any one game.

Longer answer:
On the Steam comments for your concept preview people are saying it looks like / reminds them of Happy Wheels. I have no idea what Happy Wheels is. Never heard of it but you might know. At any rate a quick web search for Happy Wheels should lead you to some content on Happy Wheels. From that you may be able to gain some insight into what people like and dislike about HW. Then you'll know what to do and what not to do to appeal to the folks are fans of this Happy Wheels. I guess the ultimate goal in this case would be to get Steam comments along the lines of "it's like Happy Wheels only better!"

EDIT: I actually just noticed your title even says it's like Happy Wheels. Completely missed that since I quickly scanned down.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's definitely got a twisted sense of humor that's not for everyone. Hopefully more devs will jump on here on comment... I would love to get more feedback from my peers on this.

 

Hmm... nobody else eh?

 

Looked cool. Then I see the kid.
Absolutely ruined it for me.

You will see a lot more success with removing the child from the game.
Ever wonder why GTA never had children running around the cities? Nobody wants to see it. It's bad taste.

But it's your game and whatever; whatever your into I guess..

 

Thank you for the feedback! This is something I'll definitely consider and see what potential players want.... I suppose in some situations, like the Hunger Games, it's a little different than in a game like this or GTA.....

 

It's a blatant copy of Happy Wheels, except the graphics are so good that you lose all of the eye-rolling, tongue-in-cheek humor and go straight to cringe. Might be a good way to get some negative PR/attention, might be a good way to get yourself blacklisted from... everything,

Try getting a YouTuber to make fun of your game. If it is controversial enough, you could get picked up by an even bigger YouTuber. That's your only shot, no news organization will touch this imho.

 

Hmm... Yeah you guys really have me thinking...

So if I removed the dad/son character and just went with all of my other characters (that are nothing even close to Happy Wheels) and removed any kids from it, it would be a great game??

Maybe tone back the graphics a bit too? Make it more toony-ish?

I really do appreciate the feedback. Good or bad.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is guaranteed to be a great game, but you have a shot at getting recognized for your hard work. Make sure the game supports players making their own levels, that's a big part of Happy Wheels.

 

Oh yeah, I definitely plan on having a level editor! That's essential.

 

You most likely wouldn't need to tone down the gore for the game; most people aren't turned away from gore nowadays. Just loosing the children in the game would be enough where you could promote to a much larger audience then beforehand.

 

Well, a lot can sure change in a day! Word-of-mouth spread about this game on Steam and it got over 1,000 unique visitors in the first 24 hours!! Lots of good feedback on there so far too.

The issue about children in games still concerns me though, so I posted a poll on Steam to get feedback from potential players to help decide what to do.

Where would be the best spot for polls like this on Unity?

 

You could keep the kid in the game if you went in a cute direction instead of a gore direction. For example, if the dad and kid took the bike through some sweet, cool jumps, then it might be fun for some people. I doubt too many people want to run the dad and kid through a bunch of giant slicers, though.

If you want to go the gore route, maybe get rid of the kid and put the dad character in a funny costume. The right costume could dehumanize the main character enough that the gore would be funny instead of repulsive. Right now with the kid and dad, the gore is only repulsive.

 

Hmm... Thanks ShilohGames. I'm a little torn right now because I'm getting polar opposite reactions on Steam so far. They all want it more like Happy Wheels by including kids... but they DO want the first character changed because he looks too similar... So definitely have to change that. Just not sure how to handle the kid part yet.

I'm currently leaning most towards removing them from the game--I just don't want to make the followers I have on Steam so far mad either.

 

Think I'm going to remove the kids and tone back the graphics just a bit.

 

You gotta learn to be able to check which way that wind is blowing... as a society, violence towards kids is not okay. The same people who are saying "you have to put the kids in!" are probably anti-social/counter-culture type people anyway, they probably like anything that would make their mum & dad upset. You don't need/want those types as fans/supporters (not exactly the demographic with the most disposable income...).

 

I think it would cool if you could maybe turn around and go backwards and slowly back up into one off those spinning blades.
A 'slow mo' replay with maybe matrix style 360 freeze motion would be good. Will people buy this? Of course there's a lot of people out there that like this kinda sick stuff. I think if you could also create your own death traps, that would be a good idea but not sure how easy that would be to implement.

 

The gameplay allows for full 360 degrees of movement. You can drive anywhere! Forward, reverse, handbrake and drift, etc.

A replay system will be difficult to do given the realtime dismemberment system, but it's on my wish list!

 

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about having a kid character in there getting obliterated. I mean it's not like the game has you running around with the goal of killing all of the children. Just can't see why people would care about the game having a kid in it. If anything I thought that actually made it a bit more interesting. There is a greater consequence for wrecking in that case.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure there will always be a few people out there who yell and scream about the kid but if it wasn't that they'd be yelling and screaming about something else. I think most rational people just don't take such things seriously.

And yes just do a poll and ask the potential fans you already have on Steam. They are the ones to listen to more than any of us here. See what they say about keeping the kid or ditching the kid.

 

Thanks for jumping in and offering another POV! So far the Steam poll has been entirely favored towards keeping them in, with only a couple comments about possible bans in some countries... But the blood and violence alone could do that anyways.

 

I don't think you'll have a problem with the child, I can't remember the name of the game, but there was one game where the objective is you play as a baby and you have to try and drink bleach, stick forks into electricity outlets lol. controversy brings with it some publicity as I'm sure you must have been aware of when you started the concept. Keep polishing and adding more customizations and I think you'll be onto a winner.

 

That's morally wrong. You'll be fighting bad press. If that's the kind of stuff you can deal with, sure it might give you a coverage boost, or the total opposite, lots of bad press leading to tons users being influenced negatively. I think you're flipping a coin on this.

The game looks good and the kid is absolutely not a factor in this. I don't think you should take the chance.

 

Heads, you come across as a likable but controversial developer who made an edgy game. Tails, you come across as a cringe worthy creep and nobody wants to be associated with you.

I like Happy Wheels, I think it would be hilarious in 3D. I do wish you luck.

That's all for me, on this one.

 

It's really just down to each individual... like everything else. I am sure there are people who would be turned off by it. For me it is irrelevant whether I see a fictional adult game character getting obliterated or a fictional child game character getting obliterated. Because none of it is real to begin with. And more importantly the goal does not seem to be "obliterate these humans!" It seems like it is more about trying to save the characters if anything. To go as far as you can without meeting your demise.

If the game was all about children characters getting a bloody death that would be different. Here, from what I understand, you simply have one player-controlled character that consists of an adult and a child. And that is one of several choices. As such it is simply an option that nobody needs to ever choose to begin with if they don't like it. Unless I am missing something?

 

If the OP is interested in beta testing I'd be happy to test. Just PM me, I've also voted on steam greenlight for you. I think it's a great concept and no doubt will appeal to the demographic of gamers you're targeting. Good luck!

 

Yup! You hit it spot on and well put! Some characters are just a single adult and some are a car full of people, but the whole goal is the same--race the finish as fast as possible and try to survive.

 

Thank you!! I will add you to the list

 

I'm going to agree with @Master Frog & @Fujik on this one, and offer an alternative that might be an interesting idea that could please both the kid and no kid crowds.
Swap out the kid for one of those baby dolls/boys, but make sure it looks totally like a baby doll, with over exaggerated seam joints. One like this - but less creepy!


Then create other selectable "second seat" characters, examples - teddy bear, alien toy, stuffed calico cow, funny looking moose, etc - let your imagination go wild. Mine is kinda stale today.
And this can be a second character selection - who the player could select to ride along with them.

And these second riders could be chopped to bits - like the main character riding the bike. The player could earn extra points the longer the second character stays on the bike.
It acts as an extended life also - the player might loose the second rider bonus when the baby dolls head goes flying off - but be able to continue playing because the main character is still alive.

Extra bonus feature - probably more cumbersome than it's worth to incorporate - the secondary character could act as a heckler to the player, or alternatively cheer the player on.
The baby could say "Yay", and "this is fun", "higher", "faster" - etc etc
The bear could say "Is this as fast as you can go", "can we do something else now", "Hey watch it you almost cut my head off", etc etc.
The sayings would probably get redundant quickly unless you could get some voice talent on the cheap to record 1000 lines per secondary character, but it's an interesting idea.

 

DEAR LORD!!! Yea that had some serious shock value for me. I probably should have scrolled down to prepare myself. This seems like it would make a great wasteland style survival product.

 

Thanks again for everyone's feedback on this! Combining the notes here and all the comments on Steam, I've decided to have an in-game option to turn children and blood/gore ON/OFF, that way I can make fans of Happy Wheels and edgy games happy, while also opening it up for players who think the game would be more fun without that stuff, or markets with heavy censorship. This will likely be one of the first prompts to pop up in the full version of the game.

I have since completely re-done the original father/son characters and added more gameplay footage and other updates. I was going to revamp the original post, but then realized it would be way too confusing for newcomers to this thread as they read the comments, etc. As a result, I am abandoning this thread and will open up with a clean new post that showcases this project much better. All future updates and conversations should go to that thread.

Thanks again for all your help in this!

 

Good decision i think, now you can get the best of both worlds : )