Game Dev: Is It Really What You Want To Do? Why?

Thinking about recent posts by @Master Frog and the weekly posts asking either how to be an Indie (how to get started) or which studies to focus on in college to get into games has me thinking about it all this morning.

Of course, being game development forums for probably the most popular game dev "kit" of all time, we have a very misconstrued view of reality. From here, it often seems like every single man, woman and child on the planet wants to be a game developer.

So, I decided to do...


A brief thought experiment on this scenario

What would the world be like if truly every person was a game developer?

No longer would you go down to the local store and buy food. Or clothing. There would be no cars or even bikes. Basically it would cause a return to times of old where each person had to labor working the land growing crops, hunting, fishing and trapping to put food on the table and be able to make clothing.

Ultimately there would be little time left for game dev. Combine that with power systems breaking down and everybody too busy living and building games there would be nobody to repair such things. Nobody would be building houses. You'll need to buy an existing one and ultimately everyone will need to build their own... maybe a little log cabin. Oh and nobody would be buying games. There would basically be no money needed anymore. Instead we'd probably see a trade like "Can I give you 3 eggs for that game?" .. "Sure. That sounds good!" And that is if people even had an interest and time to play other people's games.

Perhaps someone created a solar powered computer system before they too traded in their career for game dev. So now you're sitting in front of your computer after a long day of hard work to stay alive with a computer that has about 2 hours of power available for you to make games.


Why Do You Want To Do It?

Which led me too wondering why do so many people want to make games full-time (as in for a living)?

I get that games are fun and working on them can be a lot of fun. But so is hiking, photography, building real world objects and many other activities. Yet it seems like a large percentage of people want to make games full-time as their job (whether working at an established game studio or working as a self-employed Indie).

So my question is...

Do you really "love" game dev so much that you would look forward to doing it every day 8 to 10 hours per day with the stress of tight deadlines that have to be met or you'll lose your job (or Indie business)?

Or do you simply hate your current job (or if you're not yet working do you simply hate the other jobs that you know of)?

Or is it that you just hate the idea of working for someone else as in having a boss / manager "over" you and you see game dev as a way to escape to your freedom?

 

I love programming and always have. But I often loathe programming things that others tell me to. I want to create something from my mind, not the mind of someone else.

I think humans have an in-built drive to explore and discover and create, and there isn't much left to explore and discover. So we feed that drive by creating our own worlds.

 

I can definitely relate to that and agree. The thing is when you are doing full-time game dev you have many other things on your mind. The pressure to make enough money to stay afloat for another month being one of the biggest. That comes in different forms. Either a manager at your company "breathing down your neck" screaming about deadlines OR if self-employed you personally dealing with the related aspects of that such as marketing, building up industry contacts of one form or another, handling the product launch, customer support and so forth.

A person can explore and create from their own mind in their spare time as a hobby. And perhaps end up having just as much time to do so and certainly much less other things to worry about. So I am mainly wondering why so many seem to want to plunge in full-time doing it for a living rather than doing it as you said, just to explore and create for enjoyment.

 

The only thing better than exploring and creating for enjoyment is exploring and creating for enjoyment + money.

But to your question, I wonder how many really stop to think about all of the other things that go along with the full time nature of game dev. It isn't all glamor and much of it is a long slog to the finish line.

 

The answer should be obvious to be the next Notch, Blow, Carmack, Sweeney, Lucky...

Wait a moment I was going to save the world using game development!

 

I don't know that anyone will surpass Carmack. He's the Einstein of game dev.

 

I don't want to plunge into doing it full-time. I've worked jobs where I was over-worked, and I'm not eager to repeat the experience. Trying to force a pastime like game development would just spoil my enjoyment of it. I'm content to keep it a hobby for the time being. I'm not in any hurry.

 

There are only three things that interest me, games, robotics and space. I plan to work full-time in games for 3-4 years maximum and move onto the other two. If it takes longer than 3-4 years to be reasonably successful at something, either you're doing something wrong or you're doing something wrong.

I only have one dream game that I want to make, and once that is finished, for good or for worse, I would rather move onto something more "in this world". Your poll option 3 is the closest to my reason but doesn't quite hit it, I want to basically 1. Learn to motivate myself through a difficult enterprise 2. Be free of the need for a 9 to 5 job, and 3. Express a lot of creative things that I've always wanted to express. Expressing myself is really the main reason I'm in game development really, since motivation and being free of the 9-to-5 is probably better accomplished through other means.

In the end, I am motivated by accomplishments, not the pleasure of the day-to-day, in fact I enjoy the prospect of suffering through something to achieve what I otherwise wouldn't. Even my hobbies loosely fall into this category, for example exercise I don't particularly enjoy, but I do feel great at achieving a level of physical capability.

 

Personally I would much rather be the next Tarn Adams. Find myself a niche and fill it.

 

@GarBenjamin

Simple question, why not?

A lot of people enjoy it, it's a nice release from work / studies / life etc. and you can bash out a small title in weeks / couple of months and sell it. There's nothing to loose and everything to gain, just like playing the lottery really.

You could be out destroying your liver drinking every night, but this seems more of a logical choice. A couple of hours having fun making a game whilst having a cup of tea.

I think we probably over-estimate the amount of people willing to go big and quit their job, then either raise money / save money / apply for business loans and go all out competing against A / AA companies. It's probably not a large occurance (well I've rarely ever seen it).

Why I started? Well I suppose the POE principle applies to me, I like Bioware games. There aren't enough like them, so that's what I wanted to do..

 

@ShadowK I agree completely game dev is an excellent hobby and certainly a much better choice for me than some activities. It's challenging and fun. It's tedious and yet also can be very interesting.

I'm wondering about all of the folks who want to do it full-time for a living. And maybe it is simple as @Dave Carlile suggested... most folks haven't really considered the actual work and stress side of things.

Maybe it actually is that simple of an answer. I guess I just figured many of them, if serious about it, would have looked at the whole picture. Learned about the industry norm of long hours and high stress as an employee or learned about all they would have to do build and operate a successful Indie business.

I definitely understand people doing it in their spare time outside of their current job in a no stress no deadline no-need-to-succeed-to-pay-the-bills way. Then it is simply an enjoyable passtime. A hobby.And one where there is always just this tiny bit of chance that something really positively life changing can come out of it.

 

$$$

 

In some ways I think this may be the answer! Not just the money but literally you. People probably dream of their "job" being much like yours. You know never worrying about having enough money, never thinking about marketing, building a list of customers, prospects and helpful contacts, working 4 to 5 hours per day... while sitting on a floatee thing in a heated swimming pool inside your mansion sipping those little drinks with umbrellas... oh and working on your games of course. Lol

 

I don't usually put umbrellas in my gin and tonic, but yeah maybe I'll try that today!

 

I'll shorten this down, how many people do you know of quit their current careers and switched to games development?

Even if you know some, how many survived past their first year? Again I believe it's rarer than you may think. Plus the "indie" mobile / small game segment doesn't really require you to quit your day job.

There's a lot of game dev students I know of trying to get a job in this segment, apart from that I'm drawing blanks..

 

Some people would view such a hobby as a waste of time and effort. Those people are fools. Game development is incredibly technically and artistically demanding. Even as just a hobby I have learned an enormous amount from trying to develop games. Quite a bit of that knowledge has helped me expand my skillset, and regularly applies to the day jobs I've held over the past decade and change. (despite none of those day jobs having anything to do with games)

A hobby does not have to financially benefit you. Ever. If you enjoy it, and it enriches your life in any way, than you're doing it correctly. Not everything in life has to be a constant struggle to compete or excel. Sometimes you just want to make something nice that has personal significance to you, and that's okay.

 

So true. I would say one of the main reasons why I'm doing this is because there aren't enough Bioware games and not enough Kojima games. Games with depth and character and not lacking in the visuals. I hope I can tap into a little of that magic sauce myself.

I play SWKOTOR every now and then, one of my favourite games of all time.

 

Yeah, and the Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

We all want affirmation from others. For those who genuinely do not care, there is a term: clinically depressed.

C'mon, nobody really wants to believe that none of their dreams can come true. No matter now many times you say "and that's okay" it will never seem real.

 

Your options are too limited. If you have skills and know how to limit your scope you won't need to work 10 hours a day to get a game done.

Personally I enjoyed making my game and I don't feel burned out, in fact I have more free time and I feel less stressed than when I had a "normal" programmer job (no boss, no schedule, not stuck in a position till I retire). The game didn't made me rich but gave me enough to make another.

Yes, making games is hard but guess what, everything is. You may think "oh, gamedev is such an unstable and demanding industry" well, so are the rest, maybe a corporate programmer job may not be as demanding but they can still fire you at any time because there's a ton of programmers and projects still get cancelled, meanwhile you were stuck for years in a job you hated because you thoguht it was "stable" until reality hit you in the chin.

 

I really like all of the different opinions and experiences found on these forums. Great stuff. Thanks to all who have contributed.

 

I consider myself to be between first and last option. Originally I wanted to be an artist, but after going through marketing oriented school (rather accidentially) some art education etc. I noticed no one there is interested in drawing "characters" or concepts in general. Well...maybe I cut the story short. Thing is, I had always a knack for computers, because of my dad and I love doing creative things, that can be anything. Therefore I have tried out alot of stuff when I finally landed in game development where I could combine my craving for doing lot's of different things, learning all the time, being creative, creating my own worlds, build something interactive, make rules etc. everything about game development attracted me to it, once I knew that it's a possibility. And once I figured out that I'm not utterly hopeless case with programming

Yes I want to do game dev fulltime, yes I would gladly work 10 hours a day on it, yes I would like to have deadlines, since I seem to work best with it (but that doesn't mean I like them)
Yes I don't want to work under someone else and I couldn't imagine working for someone elses ideas or under someone elses rules(I'm leaving details out here) and from all those jobs out there, in my best knowledge and understanding game development + doing it independent is the best I can do and the one thing that seems to come closest to my talents and interests.

it's possible there are other jobs out there that would fit to what i want, but I don't know of those apparently, so this has to do

 

Nomad Fleet! Lucky! Do you have a post mortem about development somewhere? I'd love to read it. I'd be interested in knowing how Early Access treated you, and if actually releasing 1.0 made a difference in interest/sales.

 

Sent you a PM to not derail.

 

Im somewhere between the two no's

these days, I think im generally losing interest though.

 

As with anything and everything I suspect once you get doing full time and with deadlines it starts to become a ballache.

 

For me, on the contrary, if game development was some doodling around for fun every evening I would have dropped it ages ago, like the rest of my hobbies of the past that never became anything more. The crucial point for me is not that there are no deadlines as such but that those deadlines are set by me, to finish stuff that I set for myself.

In fact, I think lack of deadlines make it hard for people to measure any sort of progress, and is the reason why a lot of people spend years in this 'game' without finishing much. Some will say that game development is not about progress but rather about fun, but it seems to me to be a fact that most of development is hardly relaxing or fun unless you're doing something very simple. It's grind and labor and bug-chasing and to get through it you need a concrete goal in time and space.

 

I don't know, I'm 5 months in so probably don't have any experience for those of you doing it for years.

But even now, I'm thinking ah this is getting to be a bit of a ballache. At the beginning your full of enthusiasm, and drooling over how great it is you have your 'own' game mechanics, then you start thinking, oh shoot, need to make a better level, crap gotta bake all that again, then oh shoot the wall needs to be there to get that game mechanic working, then oh shoot I'm played my own game 100+ times, then actually, it isn't all that original or great.

Eventually yielding to 'Master Frog Syndrome' (first coined by iamthwee if anyone wants to use for later)

Wouldn't be surprised if this is doubled/trippled when you've got bosses breathing down your neck to get something done before a deadline regardless of how much you enjoy game dev.

It must be like any other job, when I first got my supermarket job, I was like, oh crap money, then a week's in, I was like 'meh'

Still it would nice to hear from actual game devs doing this full time or for a decent living.

 

I have a full-time job that I'm dedicated to and is secure. I enjoy my job and I enjoy the people I work with.
If instead I was part of a team who developed games as a full-time job - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be doing anything related to game development - when not at work.
I have been involved with game development at work - but it is so - instructionally oriented - and dull - and it doesn't fill the addiction I have to be creative.
And I really enjoy the challenge of doing things that are hard to do and are beyond my initial ability. Kind of like proving to myself I can do more than I think I can.

Even if I was lucky/talented enough to strike gold - and was able to triple (or more) my annual salary with a game or games - as it stands now - I think I would not quit my full-time job - to do game development full time as an indie.
I enjoy my job and I think I'd stay even if that happened. (I think)

And last - I just really enjoy creating interactive stuff - mainly characters - It's fun.
I enjoy helping others with there designs also - on graphics, and animations and character stuff. I like helping people solve difficult problems and lend my knowledge/ability to create things they have designed.

 

For me game dev is a low impact, low stress job. It really doesn't matter if you mess if up. My day job is chemical engineering. People die when things go wrong. Some time ago one of my colleagues was hospitalized in a plant I was responsible for, after an accident I should have prevented.

The main reason I haven't switched full time is the money. Games are a much more saturated market then engineering. More people want to make games. As such there is less money available. The saying goes "Employers will pay you just enough to prevent you from quitting, employees will work just hard enough to prevent being fired". Seems like you don't have to be paid that much to prevent you from quitting game dev, and you have to work much harder to avoid being fired.

 

It can be... unless you're like me and only write code with no bugs.

 

@iamthwee

It's nothing but a state of mind, I think most of us have been through at some point.

Really, it's just like re-decorating a room. You strip everything out / start with a blank slate, you choose a rough pallete of colours (by doing the game design). You paint one of the walls (first basic prototype / blockout) everything still looks bad but you still have another three / four walls to finish.

After you've done the first coat everything looks better but it's patchy (advanced prototype), then you rinse and repeat until it looks / feels right. After that things will start to come together, the basic template and random amount of code snippets begin to have some sort of cohesion which will spark ideas that work in practice not just in theory.

Now with said idea's, you'll scan around and go shopping for new light fixtures / carpet / sockets etc. Now we're cooking. You get re-invigorated and start adding bits to make it really feel cohesive and your own (first alpha). We just got to add the table / chairs and accessories (polish).

What seems to happen a lot, you strip everything back / start painting and realise the doors need varnishing. The electrics needs re-doing and you had a crack in the wall that needs sorting. At which point it seems overwhelming, you think it's too much work and screw this I'm off for a beer.

Also it's hard to see the wood through the tree's, in large projects you might not have anything that resembles an actual game for eight to twelve months. You just got to keep adding bits to the room based on the design / ideas you originally made until it becomes something.

 

What is it you're wanting to hear about?

 

I've typed up so many different drafts to try and respond to this thread, but I can't really compile it together to be cohesive/coherent enough to describe my feelings and current position and outlook.

I'll say that if you're trying to do game development full-time because it's "fun", then I think you will fail. You seriously, truly have to be passionate. I didn't set up an LLC because it was fun. I'm not paying annual business registration fees because it's fun. I didn't talk to accounting and deal with legal issues because it's fun. I didn't consider registering trademarks and copyrights because it's fun. I didn't do my taxes completely differently, as self employed, because it was fun. I didn't spend my time marketing my game because it's fun. I didn't purchase webhosting and mobile developer registrations because they were fun. I didn't sign up for low premium health insurance because it was fun. Truthfully, it's all pretty f*cking scary. But it's a good scary. It's a calculated risk. A good risk. A risk that makes you feel like you're doing the right thing, that which makes you feel like you're alive and with your own creative purpose. The odds of succeeding are still better than winning the lottery.

Basically, I didn't take all these risks because it was fun. I did all that because I'm passionate, and I believe I can make it, and that it is my true creative self with every fiber of my being. And yet, it is still more than that. I'm not going to rely on just my own false hope on a whim of "panning for gold in some random creek". I've got years of development experience on my side, willing to get down and dirty to do all the administrative stuff to do what I'm most passionate about. As I said, it's calculated. If I go another year or two, I won't be out on the streets, I have a reasonable amount in retirement and savings. I have the mindset that there will always be fallbacks, so now's the time to really try to generate income with my passion.

Basically, if you want to succeed, you'd better learn how to be an entrepreneur real fast. It's not only about developing the game. That's only the "product" part of the business. It's about caring for this new business entity you're creating, a new brand, a new community, and growing and maintaining all of that. It's bigger than just a game. With that all said, I'm not even there yet. But I can only feel like, personally, this is the right path for me.

 

Fantastic response. I think you definitely have the right attitude about it. That's what I call taking it seriously and absolutely agree is needed. I think the part that is odd is that we rarely see anyone actually talking about this stuff around here. And maybe that is because the serious, truly serious people, are just too busy actually doing all of this stuff to start and operate their business to spend a lot of time talking about.

But yeah I've often thought it was odd to have so many people talking about wanting to do this full-time as an Indie and yet not a single forum dedicated to the business side of actually doing it and rarely a post other than occasional newbies asking how to get started what is needed to start their company and asking about licenses and filing taxes and such. Because to me (and maybe I am misguided based on my own previous business experiences) this "other" stuff is actually the really important stuff if you want to start and run your own business.

Thanks again for your excellent reply.

 

I've thought long and hard about the question of why I develop games, and I think I've finally figured out the answer:

Because I can.

Game development is an incredibly difficult thing to do, and I just happen to have the skills to do it, and - out of all of the things I'm capable of doing; mostly "computer" related - game development just happens to be the most interesting, creative, fun, and challenging thing I'm capable of.

So... what the hell else am I going to do with my time?

 

I do it because I want to tell stories and have adventures, it's a creative outlet that's got a bit of everything.

 

A business forum (or thread) could actually be an interesting idea.

 

agreed, perhaps @aliceingameland will consider it? I have asked over on mod slack too.

 

Poll seem to be missing the option which is a yes without assuming that you have to be stressed and work 10 hours a day.

When I was student I lived very comfortably on about 40k a year (scholarships, occasional part time work). I earn more than this from Unity, and I only spend around 2-3 hours a day, certainly not 10 (admittedly a lot of this revenue comes asset store not directly from games per say).

Can you make your magnum opus with a high level of confidence in a profit, probably not, this is where passion that @aer0ace mention comes in! But I'm very confident that someone with reasonable business skills who treats their game development work like a business has a good chance of making their living in games without having to kill themselves trying.

EDIT: Just noting this is a response to the poll options, restrictive poll options tend to 'grind my gears', the rest of the discussion is very interesting

 

No worries. That was the whole point just to get some discussion going on. It's always difficult to come up with the poll options to cover all cases so I just narrow it down to a few. Really could have just left that off completely but I thought at least it might help to catch someone's attention. I agree it has been a great thread so far!

 

Objective achieved

 

I'm only in it for the women, but that's not on the poll

 

I don't see an option for "Yes, but not for ten hours everyday if I don't feel like it, and I'm my own boss"?

Oh wait, I guess I'm echoing a previous post

 

OK Cliffy B

 

I'm not sure I really want to know, but anyway how's that working out for ya?

 

Not great, but it may be for certain reasons

 

I most likely won't continue doing it after I release this title. Way too much work.

But I gotta get this mofo done already, good lord. Fighting an uphill battle against the odds is fun and all, but I am pretty done with having to compromise all the time, finding work arounds for everything, trying to find some way to work a narrative around limited, often crappy art, etc.

The work itself isn't bad, but being wildly, wildly under funded and having to scramble constantly and jerry rig everything is just too annoying.

 

LMAO, the ultimate way to be a misanthrope.. Don't shower.

@frosted

I'll shorten this down.. Changing a camera perspective can make all the difference. In terms of art quality, time needed, optimisation, expectation and complexity etc.

For e.g. a top down game like torchlight is much more "coder" focussed than my Sci-Fi FPS thingy or your 3D thingy (no innuendo there).

If you're working in a small team or as a lone dev, you've got to be kind of multi-talented these days. I wonder how far you can actually get in a 3D FPS / RPG without being at least competent in terms of art?

I say no matter the challenge give it a proper go, it's all part of the journey.

 

It gets better ! Or so I've been told.
You might get a post launch rush that keeps you coming back -
Your next idea that pushes you to form a small team where you regularly are managing people coming and going cleaning up content, and moving forward while doing the same stuff, but with more experience doing it.
Then post launch rush -
next idea
....
...
..
.

 

The only way I would consider another game is if I make a dump truck full of money and can hire a good artist full time for the duration.

Otherwise there are just too many dumb and unfortunate compromises.

It's just not really worth the huge time investment unless you can produce something high quality, and realistically without a skilled, dedicated, professional team the quality suffers too much. So either I'll use the game as portfolio piece to join a company that's hopefully doing good work, or I maybe back to writing trading systems or something.