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Game Design Challenge (PC)

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by Deleted User, May 28, 2015.

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  1. Deleted User

    Deleted User

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    The great PC Mega Game Challenge (or TGPCMGC) for short:

    Skill level: (Advanced beginner to Intermediate / expert)

    Updates: Project extended until November 16th, this will be the submission date for this project. Edit: Reduced end goals..

    Users involved:

    @ShadowK
    @Asvarduil
    @RockoDyne
    @Billy4184
    @Azmar

    Goals:

    • Design a small advanced 3D grade A worthy game in 6 months (Or a prototype)
    • Cover such topics as Concept design, Graphics, Shaders, Art, Level design, Animation, AI, PhysX, Core systems, promotion and third party SDK's (Steam integration). *(Last parts might be in part 2 of the challenge).
    • Give you a thorough overview of what it takes to start an impressive game in 5 months
    • Support each other as a community

    Game Design Theme / Start Date / Timings

    Science fiction (or variations of), the start date will be 1st of the June 2015 - October 1st 2015.

    Stage 1 (Intro)
    2 Weeks for concept / design / storyline
    2 Weeks for basic prototyping and Q&A

    Stage 2 (Main Project)
    1 Month for Artwork / Atmospheric effects / Shaders / Animation and sound
    1.5 Months for AI / Core systems / HUD and concept integration

    Stage 3 (Wrapping up)
    2 Weeks for optimisation and feedback (Some polish (Art, shinies, OMG GRFX! More than 10 FPS))
    1 Month for more polish (Controls / AI etc. and some Art if you have time), feedback.
    Artwork + Q&A

    Can I use third party assets?

    Of course, but try and make all major features your own. No point in trying to re-invent the wheel with small and common objects, but the plan mainly is to make this your own.

    Some rules to make sure this isn't a fluffy thread:

    • Big weekly updates, not look at my shiny crate.!
    • Think Big, look at some AAA titles (that are actually decent) and plan to make your own downsized version which is unique as can be. We can only achieve so much in 5 months, so don't bite off more than you can chew.
    • Research and ask, look around first then if you need feedback / help then post we will help :)

    There could be a small reward in it for the best game at the end of the challanges. Please jot down your interest below..!

    P.S Yes I will be taking part.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2015
  2. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

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    Very interested. I need to learn to work more effiiciently on my games, this sounds like just the thing to get that sort of experience. Also: I need to get better at 3D assets, period. Sign me up!
     
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  3. RockoDyne

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    Probably not a bad idea for me to try to actually commit to something.

    A few questions/thoughts.
    - what about a theme?
    - what do you mean by no small artwork?
    - what exactly are you thinking about with scale? Just saying "go big" sounds like a recipe for disaster, but aiming for a competent vertical slice is enough of a constrained target that it should be easier to scope.
     
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  4. dterbeest

    dterbeest

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    This sounds interesting. I already have a project in mind..
    At least thinking big is never my problem :)

    I'll keep an eye on this thread and see if i've got the cojones to join in

    A theme would be nice. Maybe a poll with a few different theme ideas?
     
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  5. Tomnnn

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    I like the idea, but I can probably only work on this a few hours on each weekend haha. I agree that a theme would be nice to get things started. Don't pick a genre, just toss out a phrase or something.

    Here's your chance to direct a unity game jam-ish thing.
     
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  6. Gigiwoo

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    It's a neat idea and kind of tempting. And at the same time, releasing 9 solo products has taught me a lot about myself. Specifically, I've learned that projects longer than three months are bad for me. I become too emotionally invested in the outcome. Then, it takes months for me to recover. So now, I leave the big ones for my day job. Besides, I'm really into simplistic, stylized 2D art. On a side note, finishing ANY project is challenging.

    Good luck!
    Gigi

    PS - If you build working prototypes, post them in Feedback Friday.
     
  7. Deleted User

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    No themes needed, do what your heart desires. But think about composition and what makes a game look nice, one of the easiest styles is Sci-Fi games (that's what I'd choose if we were to have a theme). Heavy use of metals and SSR type for super shiny, it's much simpler than making an outdoor game for example look good due to LM bounces and segmentation..

    What I mean by small artwork is, no point in showing us a crate or barrel you made. Basic scenes sure, new HUD system sure, new animation system with particle attacks etc. is all good.

    You get the gist, I hope :)..

    Scale, well were not going to make Call of Duty in 5 months. But a smaller practical setup that could match a AAA game, just no where near as big. Which I can tell you is a massive slog in itself, even if you were to create a scene 1/20th the size of COD AW's single level it requires a hell of a lot of time, patience and skill. Perfect example is something like this:

    A bunch of students made that in a short term as a project:



    Even if you decide finishing it would be too much work / pain. I guarantee you will pick up some major fine skillsets..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2015
  8. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

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    I've decided on my project. No idea what the outcome will be, but I know 1 feature I want to focus on.
     
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  9. AndrewGrayGames

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    I'm thinking a basic procedurally-generated metroidvania sounds doable, since I'm working with building pieces that interact in cool ways, and not so much aiming at huge amounts of explicit content. Something a bit like Metroid Prime, actually.



    Obviously a good, playable 1.0 release should be the result of this challenge...but that doesn't mean it can't be patched/appended to later, now does it?
     
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  10. Tomnnn

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    Maybe the theme can be procedural-something ;) It's in part the core of my idea. Anyone game for having some aspect of their game be procedural? Though I'm pretty sure @ShadowK needs to approve that as a loose theme :p

    @Asvarduil metroid prime 1...

    kg.jpg
     
  11. AndrewGrayGames

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    I don't understand.
     
  12. RockoDyne

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    Might as well be if you're all going to rip off my idea (that I haven't talked about).
     
  13. Deleted User

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    Cool stuff, I'll keep it on the open loop for a couple of days and shall we all say 1st of October as our finishing date?

    @Asvarduil, that sounds like an awesome idea that'd be a good seller if you can pull the mechanics and graphics off.
     
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  14. Tomnnn

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    Someone who can internet => english better than me will explain it. Kreygasm is a twitch.tv thing.

    Procedural generation is da best!

    My idea only needs a few days :p but I'm looking for a full time job during the week so October it is.
     
  15. Ryiah

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    How much of the assets are we required to make ourselves? Mostly curious for those of us who are programmers but not really capable of artwork (aside from making adjustments to existing work).
     
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  16. Deleted User

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    That's the beauty of doing this as a community, we can share files. Give tips, show you how to be a "technical" artist capable of both code and art.

    But I for sure won't be making rock assets, fences / trees and general clutter. Haven't got the time or the will to do that, although for characters, buildings, HUD / UI, shaders, atmospheric effects and key detail art. I'll do that all by myself, I'd probably recommend against making your own water shaders if you can avoid it as you can easily sink a couple of months. If you have things like rust / alloy then knock yourself out :)..

    But there's tips and tricks to simple artwork that can look gorgeous. The only thing that's a real PITA is character creation and rigging in which I'd use something like makehuman and modify it in Z-brush or Blender. Then once you have a base model it's a matter of modifying and scaling. So you can create mass variation from two models (M/F) :)..

    I do tend to make river (flowmap) / spline stuff myself but that's a preference.
     
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  17. AndrewGrayGames

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    Another question - when does this challenge begin? I have some loose ends to tie up on my current project before putting it into hibernation.
     
  18. Deleted User

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    Next week, doesn't matter if you start a week or two late. Probably joining in around the month mark will be way too short a time..
     
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  19. AndrewGrayGames

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    Fair enough.

    Another question - is there an itinerary for certain landmarks of our projects? While perhaps a bit invasive to the creative process (in one way), it could help all those "competing"* to have a way of judging our own progress as well. A mixed bag, but I feel it worth bringing up.

    *: While the "Apprentice" aspect of the challenge is not to be understated, as it's a great objective worth stretching for, in its own way building a better mousetrap in record time is a supreme reward in and of itself; an improvement here can go a long way towards any of us improving our game (pun intended.)
     
  20. Tomnnn

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    The first post states you may post updates every week if you have something to show. We should probably find a way to organize this other than uploading things here directly. Maybe share drives or imgur links at most.
     
  21. Deleted User

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    @Asvarduil

    This is how I'd approach it, obviously the games will vary so it's hard to be definitive. But:!

    Still show progress every week, it's that driving force. If you want to update with Q&A / progress before hand coolio..! Just trying to avoid spamming the place.

    Stage 1 (Intro)
    2 Weeks for concept / design / storyline
    2 Weeks for basic prototyping and Q&A

    Stage 2 (Main Project)
    1 Month for Artwork / Atmospheric effects / Shaders / Animation and sound
    1.5 Months for AI / Core systems / HUD and concept integration

    Stage 3 (Wrapping up)
    2 Weeks for optimisation and feedback (Some polish (Art, shinies, OMG GRFX! More than 10 FPS))
    1 Month for more polish (Controls / AI etc. and some Art if you have time), promotion, third party SDK (Steam) integration

    First major tip, don't get too hung up on how it looks until stage 3. This is something that has majorly slowed down my own productions.. Make it OMG beautiful when you only have to tweak and modify instead of neglecting other systems that are very important.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    @Gigiwoo makes a good point, in a project like this the biggest issue won't be making an OMG shiny AAA game. You get too deep, or you become completely indifferent and it NEVER ends...

    I've set some timelines.! Let's see if we can do it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2015
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  22. RockoDyne

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    Probably are going to need to be self imposed. I think the issue there is how much would our needs overlap. The best we could probably do is come together while doing character models, but I imagine this would quickly become a bunch of programmers bitching about how terrible blender is.
     
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  23. Tomnnn

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    @ShadowK hard? Psh, I've already got my proof of concept! Expanding this system just a little bit will be the beginning of something unspeakably terrifying.

    I intend to make my own art, so don't expect anything remotely decent looking from me.

    And people like me who think it's the best thing ever :p
     
  24. AndrewGrayGames

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    I am shocked. You didn't include your level design as contributed by @GarBenjamin, either.

     
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  25. Deleted User

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    Ok I've updated the summary a the top, if you want to add me on Skype send me a PM. Finally best of luck to everyone involved, there's still time left if anyone else is interested...

    @Tomnnn

    Not sure if joking or not :)..
     
  26. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    @Asvarduil LOL! You seem to really like the random whales thing.

    Good luck to all of you! Please try to make actual games not just movies like that video showing the person moving through the church! Unless, of course, the focus is just to make the best presentation demo possible then more power to you!!
     
  27. Deleted User

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    I plan to have at least interactive scratching my nards idle animations, sheesh! :D Thanks GB.
     
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  28. AndrewGrayGames

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    I don't know why I find it so funny. It's the dumbest (in a good way) thing I've seen in a while...yet, it's mesmerizingly hilarious. It's not that funny. But it is, to me. I just don't know why.
     
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  29. GarBenjamin

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    I threw it together and posted originally as a bit of helpful humor so I am glad someone at least got a laugh from it. It is also kind of an attempt to show how we sometimes make things out to be very complex and yet if we just do something... anything... we can see hey this may not be so difficult after all.
     
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  30. RockoDyne

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    It better be a raccoon.
     
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  31. Tomnnn

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    Given that core features of my game are procedurally generated, there are things I can't fully plan and show at this point. I'll have to let the system do its thing and then post the results here.

    The results are more shocking when you don't think ahead. You just build a few systems that interact in a fun way, then get spooked by the results.

    You said you wouldn't judge the art :p What's going on in that photo I want to say very badly, but that would spoil the surprised.

    In fact, after thinking about it, I've begun to recreate my old scp idea without realizing it haha. I guess that's the direction for my game now :) SCP-esque. Also lucky for me, this is the 1 organic thing I've ever actually been able to model and have it look ok!
     
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  32. AndrewGrayGames

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    That's how I feel. I've had the idea of a Metroidvania/FPS for a few weeks now, but I know the quicksand of making static content well from a few failed passes on Sara the Shieldmage. I've almost got the main procedural system of that game - the Nemesis system - coded, except for a few bits I can't quite figure out (yet).

    I think that's why Rogue-likes and other uses of procedural content are becoming more in-vogue though; sure we grow/grew up playing AAA content with static content, but you add replayability and relative inexpense with procedural content (at the cost of firm control over the level design, and development/debugging time.) Since one-man-bands can make games now, it only makes sense we'd automate whatever we can to focus more on the game and fail - or, succeed - faster.
     
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  33. Tomnnn

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    Procedural content is nice. How about procedural characters as well?

    My idea is an organism that, given any starting limb, will procedurally build up the organism. If you start with a forearm, 1 end may sprout another forearm or a hand and the other end may generate a forearm or a shoulder. The picture I posted was of a torso that generated a neck and 1 arm. Each piece contains a transform which indicates the normal and position for the next limb's "back" end to attach to. Each limb's start / init function generates new limbs randomly for the pieces that are still null. When this torso generated a right arm, the right arm's "back" became the torso and the torso's right became the arm.

    Any starting segment can generate a full organism or messed up little series of segments of a failed one :) The starting segment is the heart and destroying it destroys the organism. My old SCP idea was a hand that, given any material except glass, would begin to construct other limbs for itself. Without even thinking about that, the idea just sort of happened, and now the game will be you trapped in a facility for containing this thing. If you wound it, it will flee and regenerate limbs. If you wound the heart piece, the heart might move to another limb. The heart will have a starting generation of say 5, so each limb beyond the heart will have generation-1 limbs proceeding it.

    If you spot a messed up humanoid creature with arms, legs and a head... the heart is likely the torso. If you spot an arm crawling around the a torso dragging behind it, the hand is likely the heart. Cubes now, models later :D

    The only work done so far is my system for lining up connection points between limbs to get the correct orientation and position. The stage after that will be a dynamic skeleton / armature for low quality animation. The organism will be generated in a sort of starting pose and then register all of the limbs rotations and rotate each limb within a limit of the original angles, similar to my procedural pose code from an old project with living mannequins :p

    So much for keeping it a surprise. And sorry to let everyone down, but it will probably end up as a horror-ish game.
     
  34. Deleted User

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    @Tomnnn

    Seems interesting, looking forward to see how it progresses.

    Myself is a lot more bog standard, might procedurally generate some of the foliage but for the main part it's a cut down RPG.

    This came around out of a bet, I opened my mouth and said I could do better in 5 months than useee lot have done all year. They said prove it :D..
     
  35. Tomnnn

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    Sounds scary. Foliage has been the bane of computer graphics for so long, and now you want procedural foliage? Getting that alone done would be impressive. It'd be like my idea if it were for trees. Imagine a branch can either end at a point or split into another branch.

    --edit

    Phase two is complete. Look at them little guys :3

    --edit 2

    Aww, look at all the torsos joined by arms :) All this from a single object, heh.

    organism.gif
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  36. AndrewGrayGames

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    It has begun! :D

    So, what are you guys working on?
     
  37. Tomnnn

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    Procrastinating. Staying up way later than I should. Thinking about how terrible the performance is for larger organisms. But it's understandable.

    The little gif I posted was for a generation limit of 5. Check out what happens at a generation limit of 15. Oh, I added in the possibility for arms to be generated at an angle, so this happened.

    Screen Shot 2015-06-02 at 1.53.34 AM.png Screen Shot 2015-06-02 at 1.53.49 AM.png
     
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  38. Deleted User

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    @Tomnnn That's actually pretty damn sweet.

    Ok my turn, so I decided to do one single map that leads onto a sci-fi corridor where all hell unleashes..! So I beavered away in World machine making a small "island" type thingy.
    World Machine 2.jpg

    World Machine1.jpg

    Then I worked on some custom / post and shaders for a bit... Didn't bother to optimise, used some prototyping tools to get some basic stuffs together. Trying to optimise and sort out this:

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/smaa-for-unity-subpixel-morphological-aliasing.201241/

    Downloaded a bunch of textures from CG Textures, figured out how to half use substance designer, created a decal mesh tool for painting IVY and stuff. Ivy planes on my list of stuff to do..

    Oh also working on the first character model.... End of day1!

    EDIT: Forgot to show a picture of the shader tests, BUT! this is where I leave it alone and keep building the city and sculpting the landscape, lightings off but not fussed for the moment:

    FSTest.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2015
  39. AndrewGrayGames

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    I've started doodling in a notebook, trying to get a basic, pre-vision of what I want. Hilariously awful images to come.

    I also forced myself to re-watch the ExtraCreditz MVP video, and have began moving foundational assets from Sara the Shieldmage to the new project. It's amazing how my work on Sara produced a firm foundation for me to build off of.
     
  40. Tomnnn

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    I'm sure in a few weeks I'll wish I started there.

    My abomination appreciates your compliment, but sadly that'll probably be all noise if I swap out the basic shapes for models. It would look like some kind of body part meatball.

    Your terrain looks nice btw :D I think my project is just going to be a never ending museum of experiments gone wrong lol.

    Ahh, shaders, proper normal maps, good looking textures... I wish I could do at least 1 of those lol.
     
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  41. RockoDyne

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    So far this is starting to look a little bit more like a jRPG than I was originally intending. At the very least, the combat should be presented in a curious way (basically like chrono trigger where you don't have to keep hitting attack), but I don't imagine it's going to have much depth/variety. I'll probably be skimping on monster types and items just to avoid creating assets and database editors.

    I thought I was going to do a procedurally generated dungeon, but I'm likely to end up monkeying with the editor to create it by hand (the map/graph of it). The actual structure of the dungeons with be generated in code, so it could be done procedurally, but I won't.
     
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  42. Deleted User

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    I use all sorts for Normals, Quixel 3DO, shader2map (takes a picture and makes a normal map from it), Xnormal, or some are just supplied with the textures purchased..

    The interesting part comes from detail, so I'll photoshop Ivy onto a plane and vertex paint it :)..

    The hardest part was getting the bump offset / parallax mapping on the terrain.. There's a couple of issues, usually I'd rack my head over.. BUT! I did manage to sort out an issue with tessellation, some of the terrain had seams in it causes splits on the edge loops (

    As this is a 5 month challenge, I shall plough on and keep building.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2015
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  43. Tomnnn

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    @ShadowK my anti-art prevented me from understanding most of what you said there. But it sounds like your project is going to look good. I think I'll leave the project as is and try to make some art for it. 5 months to do a little art.

    Unity forums, prepare to see anti-art talent like never before. I feel that I should invite hemimg and boredmormon to the final result, to make a point in another art forum. They didn't seem to believe / grasp the depth of anti-skills.

    You could define how rooms connect and which rooms are allowed to connect to which rooms, then let the procedural code do its thing :D That's basically what's happening in the screenshots I posted there, and that took a few hours of last friday & saturday while being distracted by sodapoppin starting at $500 and ending up with >$10,000.
     
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  44. AndrewGrayGames

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    The problem is, when skill and anti-skill are released in the same location, the two annhilate and produce great amounts of energy. Unfortunately, this energy usually manifests in the form of gamma nerd-rage.
     
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  45. Deleted User

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    @Tomnnn if you need help, don't hesitate to reach out..! That's what the GDC is for.
     
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  46. Tomnnn

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    Lol well there's no skill to worry about regarding art, so no issues.

    This is a path I must art alone.
     
  47. RockoDyne

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    That's the easy part. The difficulty is that I intend for the rooms to be multi-tiered, sort of in the vein of the 2d zelda games. At that point you start needing graphs to connect all the tiers both per dungeon floor and per room. Once I started thinking about bridges both underneath and above other tiles, this would just start becoming a pain in the ass to generate.
     
  48. AndrewGrayGames

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    This is the same sort of challenge I need to overcome in my game. I was thinking of having the generation system work relative to the doors as opposed to the rooms.
     
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  49. Tomnnn

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    that sounds familiar :p

    Screen Shot 2015-06-02 at 4.22.24 PM.png

    There's a string array of all possible connections on each possible mounting point for each object. The second half of each string is which mount point on that object to align with and connect to.

    Sounds like it would only be a pain if you want it to make sense. Are you planning to load the entire map at once? If not you could generate rooms on the fly as users try to go to new rooms. If you go with a system like that, users could go through a left room 10 times and not loop around to a previous room :D
     
  50. RockoDyne

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    That was the first idea. You have a subdivided space, with doors connecting straight to neighboring rooms (without halls) at whatever tier it's on, then connecting tiers with "room features" i.e. stairs and ladders. Connecting all the tiers is one headache, while fleshing out the rooms is another. It's a weird space to be in to dictate that a room needs specific features.

    It was intended to be in a finite space, and at one time I was thinking it would be revisitable, so I was going to need to serialize it out regardless.
     
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