Fix Your Parents' Mindset - Why Games Are Important?

Hey guys,

Most people [ especially parents ] consider playing games a waste of time. The next time when your parents tell you stop playing games and go to study, show them this video:

I hope they will change their minds

 

I don't know how old your parents are, but I'm a parent myself, and the only reason I know how to cross the road is because of hours of frogger.

 

Err... fairly sure there are a lot of people significantly older than that on this forum.

It is waaaaay more efficient to get a job, earn your money, pay your share of household bills and spend whatever is left on whatever you want, games included.

If your parents are telling are telling you to study to begin with, that means your grades aren't good enough and you need to fix that.

 

Lol. Kids these days.

I watched the video. There is nothing in there that would convince me to change my parenting strategy. Every thing mentioned in the video is better served by old school playing outside.

 

i learned to read when i was 3.. or 4?, before kindergarten, playing video games with my dad (alot to do with dad, having something i Want to learn to read lol)
in kindergarten, or 1st grade? i got some certificate signed by Bill Clinton, i was top 10? 5? 1?percent reader or speller or something i forget lol
Rings of Power, Zelda games i remember ... probably a couple more
Rings of Power had some pretty advanced words, remember my dad would push me to read and pronounce the words (and he'd explain the meanings) before i could press button to advance the dialogue

 

kids certainly learn to swear more from watching their parents playing games. All I want games to reinforce (not teach) my kids is critical/strategic/lateral thinking. Actual life skills will come from them getting out & having a life.

 

The main advantage of playing games is simply learning how to interface with a computer. And learning how computers think.

Those are valid skills. But certainly not enough to get anyone out of homework.

Now if one of my children wanted to present an interactive display built in Unity or something equilivent for show and tell, well that would be something I could get behind. And they would be praised to the skies if they wrote a program to do their homework for them.

But just spending hours killing time on COD or MineCraft or whatever isn't going to provide any relevant skills. It's simply entertainment. And entertainment is great. But it's not intrinsically valuable.

 

The purpose of playing games IS to waste time. It's entertainment, last I checked. And all entertainment is whatever you should be doing outside of work. If you have grades to work on, then do that first.

Games aren't going to change the world because they can't fix syria, poverty and disease. Probably can't fix the asteroid that IS on the way, it's only a matter of when.

 

Like all people, kids need to be well rounded. They need to be able to communicate verbally with people, learn to play well with others, share, treat others with respect, and all that jazz. Playing games is not always bad but if it becomes the only way a child knows how to entertain themselves, it could be a problem. Every parent knows what happens when the power goes out and the kids start going nuts because they can't watch TV or play computer games.

My kids have friends who are so addicted to games that they break down the door when their parents lock the game room to get them to sleep, study for exams, or other things important to their future. Games are fine as a normal part of a full life, but child cannot find anything else as fun or stimulating as games may have a problem. Parents have to be able to set limits until the kids can do it themselves.

Also, lots of alternatives...play a board game with your kid. Go for a walk outside. Watch some cool documentary on science or history. Read together. Go visit people rather than talk to them on Skype. Window shop. Visit a museum or a garden park. Go to a festival. Put the phones away for a while.

 

Not true! Think about a documentary or a movie that can teach something. Games or VR could be used to give a sense of reality to the issues in the world. What if you made a game where you need to hand out aid to people who are starving? Or maybe a game where you have to walk 15 kilometres to get some water from a well.

I get that this isn't what most people think of when they say "games" but it's all the same stuff in the same way a documentary is a film and so is The Avengers.

 

Or you could actually hand out food to starving people. Or go for a walk. Neither of these are experiences that can't be easily obtained.

 

In Greek we have two words that roughly translate to entertainment.

One "Διασκέδαση", translates to entertainment but also more towards "fun".

The other, "Ψυχαγωγία", means more like... "training for the soul". It's usually reserved more for culture and art. The existence and meaning of the word itself, implies that there is value to "entertainment" and not everything is mindless fun. So I don't get the "it's just entertainment" argument. Entertainment is important too.

And games are a part of that too.

Or at least, I do feel like my life was enriched by games, if ever so slightly.

 

Totally irrelevant, missing the point and inaccurate.

 

My parents have a tendency to go a bit stir-crazy for roughly the same reasons.

 

I missed your point then, apologies, it wasn't deliberate.

Sure games can teach things, like a documentary. But no one is arguing that spending all day watching documentaries is a good thing either. The games shown in the video are primarily entertainment titles. Everything is about balance. And not doing homework to play games is probably out of balance.

My argument is that most of the skills and experiences mentioned in the OP's videos are better obtained in other ways.

Deduction making skills? So does choosing to climb a tree or which direction to explore the park. And the real world consequences beat any feedback a game can provide.

Creativity and imagination? Playing with imaginary friends probably does this better. As do most toys. As does drawing or making sand castles.

Learning problem solving? How about actually building a fort or a rope swing. Or straight up doing homework.

Improve player mood? I will contend that this one is a straight out lie. In any case, the endorphins from physical activity probably beat games hands down.

Cooperation and team work? How about actual face to face talking with people? Building that fort again. Any sort of team sport.

A better way to learn? Probably not. For most skills kids need the traditional ways are better.

 

@BoredMormon Great points. You know if you happen to be discussing this with a kid they are probably never going to "click" with what you are saying because they are on a mission to prove why playing games as much as you can is the best thing to do.... right? lol

 

actually from my time playing cod2 and cod4 i realized the value of like... "acting on instinct" .. and revealed (made demonstrable) to me a greater power that a confident mindset can bring... "believe and you shall receive" and stuff.. idk like when u overthink in a twitch shooter end up sucking, but if u "get into" a certain mindframe where iam not consciously thinking at all, i was a TOTAL BEAST at cod2 and cod4 lol...
when i thought i was sucking, id suck.. when i thought i was a "total beast" , i was , and learn to activate that ability of the mind.

LOLS ...but yeah...

yeah i guess it falls in that category:

 

Lol. True.

Edit: Kids, take my comments as indications that the video will probably have no impact on your parents views. Its probably not worth the effort.

 

Not exactly accurate. "Film" is a medium, not reflective of content. "Video Games" are computer software applications built for entertainment. Documentaries and comedies are types of films, games and spreadsheet applications are types of software.

Certainly, like some movies that aren't documentary/educational, games may contain a message or content that promotes a certain point of view, thier defining characteristic is that they are first and foremost entertainment.

Now, software that has the primary purpose of education, training may certainly use mechanics (or tools) employed by games, but it would be inaccurate to call them simply games. Trainers, simulators and sometimes "serious games", educational games" are the more accurate terms. Much like movies/films are primarily entertainment, unless qualified by something like 'documentary'. (Though documentaries can be entertaining).

I totally agree with your point that the tools and tech can be used for more than just entertainment (and is). But '(video) games' are entertainment.

Sorry, I realize that was pretty pedantic. I have worked on, and still have friends that work on educational/serious games. And it is still a bit of a struggle to get people to understand that those types of projects are not 'just games'.

 

id beg to differ...
depends on the ability and motivation of the creators
hehehehhh

.. i mean many things can change with change of mind...
radio was very powerful in its time

 

When games try to tackle real-world issues, it is always cringeworthy or silly. (Anyone remembers Divinity: Dragon Commander?)

To see real-world issues, I can look out of the window.

And in game I would prefer to see a great story that doesn't have much connection to the reality. That doesn't have to be a happy story with a happy ending, just an interesting one.

Makes sense, but you can further split "Video games" into two categories: one which can be used as storytelling medium, and another that offers pure gameplay and no story.
In "storytelling" cateogory you'll have lots of rpgs and plenty of action games. In "non-storytelling" category there will be flappy bird and puzzles.

 

If your parents tell you to stop playing games and go study, you stop playing games and go study. The time spent living with your parents is just a tiny fraction of the time you will spend as an adult, living on your own (hopefully). When you are an adult, you get to make the decisions about what is best for you until then, it sounds like your parents are just trying to give you the best odds that you can become a functioning adult who can take care of yourself and not a loser, flipping burgers at 40 and still living in their basement. That is every parent's worst nightmare!

If your parents let you play - especially if they bought you that game - when you don't have homework, consider yourself lucky.

 

These games will never be made and if they are, due to some government grant in some country, they will never be on Steam or in the mainstream. Since my eldest children were little, the quantity and quality of education games have gone way down. My next two kids (there is a big gap between the first two and the second two) played very few educational games compared to their older siblings because they simply did not exist. The older games no longer played well on our computers. Today, those games do not play at all.

Schools do use some games, but the companies that sell them sell exclusively to schools for classrooms and are too expensive for the average kid.

And the game market is run by what is popular. I can imagine only a tiny fraction of people who frequent the Unity forums playing a game about handing out aid or walking 15 km to a well. lol The fraction will be less among the average gamer population. Since the market controls what games get published and even more so, what games are noticed, it is doubtful that such games will ever be available to most parents and kids.

I miss the days when there were so many education games out there that I could use them to homeschool my two eldest kids. It is an untapped market but one that probably won't bring a lot of profits.

 

Somehow that reminded me of "America's Army" game (developed by US Army).

Speaking of educational games, turning education into computer games will probably get in the way of the education, most of the time. I could understand, say, virtual walkthrough of some historical landmarks, but in most of the other cases books (and the right teacher) would work better. So I doubt there's much "market" for this kind of thing.

 

Actually, there could be. My son had a very cool game that taught multiplication tables. Your character went through a dungeon fighting monsters. Instead of hitting a button to attack, you had to give the answer to a simple multiplication problem. Quicker you went, the less damage you took. He loved it.

Also, Carmen Sandiego was a great game for teaching geography. We also had games that taught spelling and language skills, as well as more complex math. All of they were games, not just walk throughs and they were fun enough for my kids to beg to play them.

 

Back in classic WoW you had to be pretty mathy at times to get the best out of gear, such as calculating damage from swing speed and so on, so there's a precedent for using brain power. Sadly not these days where any number of web applets will do it for you.

@Teila makes a good point. You can learn from games, but games will not give you vital experience. And experience is what is necessary (I'm pretty sure most racing games won't teach you clutch control)

 

Look, in my experience computer by itself is a huge distraction. Usually people get great ideas when they're not in front of it and are doing something else (brushing teeth, staring at the ceiling, etc). So, I'd say that by trying to learn something in front of computer brain processing power is halved, and when you turn original knowledge into game, it is halved again. It is not worth it.

Yeah, it might be fun, but it is definitely not efficient and will take longer than traditional methods.

People need to enjoy process of the learning by itself - that'll be much better.

You can pick up stuff from games, I can't deny that. However, that would require much more time than focused study of the subject.

The only exception I can think of is foreign language study - that one can be incredibly efficient. Videogame can provide placeholder "immersion" environment. But I doubt it will be a good way to learn anything else.

 

I never said it replaced traditional methods. In fact, my kids had math textbooks and reading assignments and all that stuff. I homeschooled 4 kids, one is a junior College and has had almost all A's (one B), 3.96 GPA out of 4.0 so far..in computer science. My kids are very independent learners.

Computer games were never a replacement for traditional methods, nor should they be. But they can add to the experience. Learning time tables with flash cards as opposed to killing monsters really isn't a big deal..unless you have a kid who finds flash cards boring. Then other methods can add to the experience.

Not every parent has the experience or education do do what I did, but every parent who has access to quality supplemental education tools, whether well-made education games or documentaries or a local museum can add to their child's educational experiences in a positive way.

As I said in a post above...children need to be well-rounded.

Wanted to add...biggest problem I see with my friend's children, especially the boys, is addiction to video games..and with the girls, addiction to social media. Hard for any supplemental educational experience to compete with that unless the parent is willing to deal with the problem. A lot of parents are just too tired and overworked to do anything, sadly.

 

The only leason kids leran from today games is that one who pays more wins. Seriously games would be healthy if people would not overuse them so badly, losing all the social connections they could have been made in time that was wasted on perfecting some useless skill in a game.

 

My son reminded me that a huge help to his math skills and reading skills was Dungeons and Dragons, the tabletop game. He said he learned division through creating characters and creatures much better than through his books. lol

So..guess it depends on the game. Reminds me of Hippocoder's comments about WoW. Problem is, today, kids avoid "numbers" and DnD's latest editions have dumbed down a lot of stuff. He uses only 3.5, even today.

 

I think this is the wrong way to enrich and improve educational experience. The kid will learn monster's AI patterns instead of flashcards this way.

Language immersion thing works great (provided you aren't trying to tackle chinese/japanese/arbic while being native english speaker with no knowledge of their writing system).

However, approach you mentioned (replacing flashcards with monsters) is definitely the wrong way to do it. Material being learned should be continuously being used all the time during fun activity, non-stop. Meaning information being learned should be primary focus, and it should be continuously being used during gameplay process at every single frame. This happens automatically when you play a game in foreign language. What you listed is turning information being studied int low priority goal brain will happily discard and forget very quickly.

Look, I would expect a kid to know how to add/subtract/multiple and divide before entering the school -> somewhere around age of 7 or so and be able to read at 6 or earlier. What you said basically means he had really bad math teacher. No offense.

 

I can't agree more. Baby hippos are indeed round in shape.

 

Sitting in front of computer skill can make you really anti social. Kids can start dreaming impossible with wired internet/game stories and what not. I used to play a lot outdoors but now I can't even talk to people comfortably.
But games also helped to learn to code. I loved a TD game and that's why I Learnt game Dev. Everything thing has a positive and negative side. Playing games like GTA won't benefit a child as much as playing Unity3D will.

 

Simulations made with game engines might help us with that asteroid situation. A little culture change in syria could make games more important to them, then the right game could bring peace. Think of how crazy americans are over games, waiting outside for days and fighting each other at black friday sales for new consoles etc.

Bringing that to other cultures could stop the fighting! Probably. Then there'd only be beheadings in the most extreme countries for people who camp too much.

 

xD

 

Sorry, but you did offend.

You know nothing about my son or his situation so you really should be careful what you say to people.

I absolutely disagree that it is wrong to use other methods to encourage kids to learn. Tools are tools, and as long as you don't become over dependent on one or the other, it is a good thing.

Secondly, we adopted my son when he was 4. He spent the first few years of his life in a horrible situation, with extreme neglect and physical abuse. When he came to us, he could barely talk in sentences. Schools didn't know what to do with him as he was very hyperactive. Medications helped but the teachers were always encouraging us to up the dose because he was disruptive. He tested with a high intelligence but his behaviors were out of control.

I took him out of school after 3rd grade to teach him myself. We had professional help as well to deal with the behaviors. At 10, he read his first full book. I cried. Soon after that he discovered DnD and his reading and math took off. I saw that this was not only encouraging him to learn, but also helping with his behavior. He was writing stories and reading fantasy books by the dozens. It literally happened all in a year or so.

As I said, he is now a college junior studying Computer Science with a very high GPA. He has high honors and was an officer in his honor society. This is a kid that the schools gave up on.

So do not tell me that I am a bad teacher. My other kids have done well too. They are smart, intelligent kids that impress most adults they have met. I am proud of them and proud of what my husband and I have been able to give them as far as education and experiences.

How many kids do you have? Did you teach them yourself? I actually studied education in graduate school, the developmental stages of children, etc. Did you?

Sorry if I offended...

BTW, kids here enter school at 5. And developmentally, most kids are not ready read or write at that age. Did you know that? Some do..but not most. That is a huge problem right now because schools are pushing kids to learn things well before they are developmentally ready. It is causing teachers to quit, and students to fail. Very bad thing. One reason my kids were not in the schools.

 

Years of playing video games has definitely improved my skills and ability to play video games. In fact, I don't think there is any better way to be better at video games than through playing video games.

 

Didn't mean to.

The original statement was made with assumption of normal upbringing during early years. Which turned out to be incorrect.

If you managed to fix the consequences of messed up early years, then it is a good job, I'd say.

No offense taken.

Actually, I did. I studied pedagogics/education in "college" and then in university. One of the aspects of my "official" profession is teaching children.

Yes, I do know that. Put overly young kid in a class and he might decide to just play on the floor during the lesson. Our lectures also covered what kind of problems happen when 12 years old kid manage to enroll into university due to accelerated education. The thing, is, if parents play the cards right, it is possible to teach the kid reading at 3, then by 6 or 7 he'll be reading a lot. Writing (in cursive) is another story, and probably will look quite horrible for a while. ("Teach to read at 3" obviously only applies to languages with small alphabet)

 

One things for sure, I would never be able to type as fast as I can now if i hadn't played minecraft. Calling people noobs and raging helped alot. With that being said, It would have been a better use of my time to program or something, but whatever.

 

Amazingly, doing anything a lot, makes you better at it. It also includes school work.

 

Thank you.

I was being sarcastic.

That was one of my guesses since teachers are often huge critics of home schoolers and feel they can do better. I have lots of friends who are teachers who questioned our decision but all of them are now huge supporters. My experience is there are good and not so good teachers, as with any thing else.

As a teacher you should know better than to make assumptions about children and families without all the information.

Many kids cannot learn to read at age 3. The majority of kids who learn to read at age 6 or 7 do just fine even if they are not reading a lot by 6 but instead by 10. Let them play for a while longer, let them be kids for the very short time they have as a child. I see no need to push a child to read or do math before they are ready. What I see now in the schools here, where they are pushing 5 year old children to do math and read is that they hate school, they fail young because some kids develop at different rates..and are normal kids. Failing young sets them up for future failure. I know children who have failed kindergarten....and forever after saw themselves as stupid.

Our homeschooling group is growing with these kids, all smart, healthy kids, who just need a bit more time for their brains to be ready. Amazing to see our teens sharing physics books, reading about astronomy, and challenging each other at chess...and yes, discussing ethics in games and the depth of art and music.

I also know many kids who read late or learned math late and did fine, even excelling later.

Again, as an educator, you know that a child who can't read at 5 or even 6 is not forever a failure.

Anyway, to get this back to the subject, a child, whether 3 or 10 can benefit from making learning fun. At our house, a trip to the grocery store can be a learning experience, or a hike in the woods, or making a video game. We live in a world where there is so much around us. To ignore all that wonder and limit learning to only traditional methods would be a waste, in my opinion.

 

Like many topics these days, this one seems to be needlessly polarizing. Games can have value without being the only thing that has value. Parents who think that games are nothing but mindless entertainment that won't help with problem solving skills or hand-eye coordination and children who think that games can provide all of that without the need to also study or play outside can both be wrong.

 

This. Games aren't the cure all proposed in the OP. But they are a long way from all bad too.

 

I wonder how that's going to go in china with preschool coding courses.

I was a really disruptive and hyperactive student myself, and luckily my mom resisted taking any advice on medication until I hit puberty, because my personality did a 180. I'm so calm in person you wouldn't even know I was italian!

 

Yeah, I took my son off all medications when he was about 12 and he was fine. I wish that I had been a more experienced mom but when you have a kid who comes pre-diagnosed, it is scary to not follow the advice of the professionals. I have a younger daughter who was easily distracted and never put her on anything. She is fine.

As for China, my guess is that some kids will fail and some will do well. The failures will work in the sweatshops and the fields while the small group that does very well will become engineers and scientists.

But that is China....where the determination of a child's future happens early. We know that kids who can't read at 5 can someday become Einsteins. We don't determine our child's future at 5.

 

My son with Down Syndrome knew the alphabet by age two and could sight read over 150 words when he was three. My three year old daughter did not know her alphabet by age two and I think that the only word she can read right now is her name. I am not the least bit worried about my daughter's reading ability.

 

Next time your parents tell you to go study. Go and f***** do it.

I was gonna say, theres no-money in playing games, but there's people earning 10x more than me playing games.

 

Video games are useless.
And there's absolutely no problem in that. We aren't machines, we need to waste time once in a while.

But if I had children they would have to earn their time wasters paying with their own efforts.
If you want no responsibility, you have no rights.

 

That makes the assumption that spoiled kids will turn out spoiled. My life serves as the example that not only is that assumption wrong, but it's a wonderful life to do as you please while you still have few to no responsibilities!

 

My parents were always a little hesitant and some cases regretful about video games but over the years they understood it as a growing field similar to card and board games earlier in history. It really depends on how you use them. Are you giving up your real life to just play games or simply taking time to exercise your brain, relax, or hang out with family and friends? In response to the video, I agree with its points. The issue though is people tend to go overboard and just play video games. If you're just playing games, those skills you developed from playing games are useless.

My parents used to be worried about my interest in video games and making games because they thought I couldn't support myself on that career. When they found out about the pay for the job I landed at the end of high-school, they knew I'd be able to provide for a family.

Unless you're studying a game's design or testing a game for a project or work (both of which are WORK and need STUDYING SKILLS), playing games shouldn't be your job. It should remain a hobby or past-time. If you can learn to say "I don't need to be playing right now." Your parents