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Do you need a Degree in Computer Science to create a game or get a Programming Job?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by WalkingDead, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. WalkingDead

    WalkingDead

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    Just curious I heard maths is mandatory.

    I wonder if one wants to build somewhat complex websites with custom plugins etc do you need a bsc in computer science? what if you want to create a game with Unity?

    What if one wants to build mobile apps for android? would an employer want computer science? or a CIS degree with ability to create software be good enough and you can learn CS Algorithm Design online yourself? what if you learn all the math on your own? would that be enough?

    surely in programming the most important part is being dedicated and relevant right?
     
  2. goat

    goat

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    Actually, I can tell you from being degreed in Mathematics and Computer Science being dedicated and relevant are proven by being degreed. I've even had a co-worker that was fired at a business after a couple of years because he had a degree in music rather than a programmer relevant degree. I think it has something to do with avoiding hiring people better suited to being used car salesmen.
     
  3. ErisCaffee

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    For my own part I have a degree in Math and my boss at my first programming job said he hired me because having worked at a bakery while in college, coming in to work at 5am, showed him that I would be reliable. My programming skills were a secondary concern to him.

    Where I work now, one of our up and coming developers was hired while he was still in college. He should be finishing up his degree this spring.

    So no, you don't need to have a degree in CS to get a programming job.

    However, if you don't get a degree then you are going to need to spend a lot of time studying on your own if you really want to do well. There's a lot more to software development than just learning the syntax of a programming language! Once you are comfortable in the language of your choice, try picking up a copy of the book "Algorithms" by Robert Sedgewick. It's a very well written introduction to the common algorithms used in computer science and it should really help you to start learning to think about programming problems in useful ways.

    And of course, spend as much time as you can tinkering and writing programs of your own. The more practice you get, the better you'll become.

    And if you do decide to pursue a degree? Great! While it's not truly necessary, having a degree in programming or some other technical field can only help you in your job hunting, and you will learn a lot of useful things.
     
  4. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    No, you don't need it.

    However (if you're looking for programming job), you need skill level level equivalent or superior to that of the dude with science degree. You'll have harder time getting (programming) job without proper "papers", and learning programming by yourself takes time and passion. You'll probably want a portfolio, too.

    Keep in mind that you don't necessarily need to be a programmer to make games, since you can team up with people (and availability of many free* engines makes things easier). Working with unity would take less programming skill than writing software yourself.
     
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  5. cyberpunk

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    No, you don't need anything to create a game except a computer and some skills.

    Getting a job may be different depending on where you want to work. Some places will look for a Computer Science degree for a programming position though if you have a lot of relevant experience or a portfolio of games you can overcome this.

    If you are working on your own indie project then, of course, you don't need any credentials, and freelancing is usually based on your portfolio and clients won't care if or where you went to school.

    Also, people confuse programming and math. Math skills help, but it's a small portion of what game programming is about. Most of it is about logic and structure, so you'll need an analytical mind, sure, but it's not a math problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  6. ErisCaffee

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    As for math, if you want to do game programming you are going to need to understand vectors and how to use them. A good textbook and reference for games math is "Mathematics for 3D Game Programming and Computer Graphics" by Eric Lengyel. I highly recommend it if you get serious about the math needed in 3D games. Though to be fair, a lot of what it discusses seems to get done by Unity for you. Still, it never hurts to known how to load your own bullets before you shoot yourself in the foot. :)
     
  7. goat

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    For a fact most businesses have a requirement that you be degreed. 24 years experience and I won't be talked to at most businesses for an IT job without any appropriate degree. Can you be hired at lower level technical IT jobs that don't require much training or expertise? Yes. Those jobs pay less. That's why they had the higher paid developers design the software that way - so businesses could hire lesser skilled technicians using that software at lower salaries. That is ultimately what Unity and all software development is about.

    My brother was a baker for 30 years and got me a job I held for one night in college but I was fired from the only baker job I had on the first night because I was left alone with no training and the conveyor line of doughnuts were coming off the frying line too fast for me to gather and box - on a Sunday morning of a home college football game! The owner of the bakery was livid! LOL. If you've ever seen the episode of I Love Lucy where Lucy and Ethel fall behind at the chocolate factory you'll get an ideal.
     
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  8. crag

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    a decent computer, time and sheer will
     
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  9. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    For games and a lot of tech, usually it will be something like "degree required or equivalent". Basically meaning your skills should be at least the same level as somebody with a degree is expected to have.

    In practice, experience trumps all. I would say roughly half (or less) of our studio has degrees in their given field. A majority do have degrees in something, and many don't have degrees at all. Several of or engineers are self taught, including some of heads/leads. One of my team's most experienced engineering leads has a fine arts degree. I have half of an art degree. ;). And we only hire at senior level and above. If you have the experience, a degree doesn't matter. But without experience it can help you land a job to start building experience.
     
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  10. WalkingDead

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    Hey guys thanks for all the input I just wanted to say that I have completed my Advanced Diploma in Computing thus far and I only need 1 more year to get a "computer information systems Degree Bsc" which I know obviously isn't computer science but it has a LOT of database programming and well database related stuff in it. But again no maths. I guess this kind of degree gets one a job in database administration.

    So what I was thinking was to spend a couple years learning programming on my own, algorithims and stuff aswell as the relevant math fields like discrete math, linear algebra etc and also produce a substantial piece of software on the google app store to show an employer so he or she can decide if I would be worth their time.

    I dunno I am just putting it out there, because if I was to do a computer science degree lets face it I would have to go back to high school and at 30 years old thats sorta out of the question right. Cause CS degrees at University of the West Indies require top scores in A levels maths and I don't even have A levels. All I have is 7 years experience of building websites using joomla and templates and a lot of people skills but thats about it nothing special imo.

    There is also this I can do

    http://www.ctscbcs.com/computing/bsc-computer-science

    ^ what is that? thats no real computer science, no math but has plenty programming, and hey atleast it isn't a music degree right? I can gain entry into that its a "top up" Bsc where it takes 1 year to complete if you have an associate degree or advanced diploma in IT.

    So I mean my avenues aren't that great but I was wondering if getting that comp sci top up and learning a lot of "real" computer science coursework on my own and lots of dedication to creating a real piece of software of worth, if that would give me some kind of opening to find a job or make money somehow in someway.

    I guess thats my story.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2016
  11. WalkingDead

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    With that said I can say for a fact that "info tech Caribbean" has told me personally they aren't interested in degrees for their programming positions but they are interested in what I can build. They told me that they value real world work and experience more than a degree, I am not sure why to be honest. So this was one of the reasons I was thinking I didn't actually need to do a real hardcore computer science degree.

    But instead I could get a algorithm book and some math books related to computer science and learn stuff for my own benefit. People have contacted me already to build apps for them, in this neck of the woods people want apps that basically does the same functions of their website. Kinda like how trinituner.com has an app just like tapatalk but the difference is its free unlike tapatalk.

    On this side of the pound people mainly do business related programming there is no research done here or game development. Just a lot of web design with databases from banks to credit unions to all sorts of things.
     
  12. Meltdown

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    A portfolio and experience is much more important.

    While the degree may help in many regards, and provide some good foundation knowledge and best practices, I would say after portfolio and experience, its the 3rd most important thing.
     
  13. WalkingDead

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    Hi there, I do have a website design portfolio and I can obtain a app development portfolio aswell, I know the know how to advertise and get jobs locally to develop websites or apps. I have even been contacted in the past to build apps but I said I didn't do app development because well it is the truth but in recent times I developed a real passion for app development and programming on the whole.

    Learning programming has sort of become an addiction to me. I will do my best with a algorithm book, data structures and some maths that I can muster up for my own benefit not sure how useful this plan is going to be but what the heck I gotta try something.
     
  14. Martin_H

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    I can't tell you much, because I'm one of those hobbyists around here that only has an art degree. You've gotten a lot of great replies already, but I wanted to add one thing so that those with the proper experience and education can either confirm or refute it: Personally I think acquiring the skills and experience needed to make and release good games is a LOT harder than getting a computer science degree. I base this on the subjectively perceived 99% "drop out rate" between people starting their first game and people releasing indie games of good quality. The hardest part isn't the math and programming, it's the "making good games" part. A CS degree won't magically turn you into kickass gamedesigner because designing games and programming are two different skillsets.
    And also you can still end up unemployed even with a degree, if a market is oversaturated.
     
  15. neginfinity

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    That might not work out, because you need a PROJECT that is interesting for you and learn while implementing that project. Most likely you'll lose motivation if you'll start making project for the sake of learning discrete math and algebra. You need something that will get you fired up.

    Not sure what country you're in, but usually there are education programs for adults (that cover school course), and you can still enroll at the university even if you're 90 years old. Chances are you won't qualify for free education and will have to pay (assuming the country provides free education, though).

    You can get yourself a tutor, you know.

    Either way, you need to think whether you want to be a programmer or if you want to make games - because those occupation require different skill sets.
     
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  16. Kiwasi

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    Degrees are good ways to prove you have a base level of knowledge and commitment. The alternative is a long track record.

    Employers hire people to get things done. If you can convince a perspective employer that you can get things done, and then get things done once you get the role, you will be set.
     
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  17. tiggus

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    Most programming jobs say "BS required OR equivalent experience". To be honest at least half(maybe all?) my jobs have said they require a degree and it never seems to come up during the interview and have never had issue landing the job. That is with a long list of experience though, starting out as a newbie today I get the impression it matters more to get your foot in the door.

    I can say as someone who does a fair amount of hiring, when I see github links on the resume to projects they are contributing to it almost always boosts my perception of the candidate(if they check out and are actually contributors).
     
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  18. kaiyum

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    I came from civil engineering background. Have been with game development from 2012, mid. From 2014, I have been serving SoftWindTech Limited at first as a gameplay programmer and then now as shader programmer. All was basically self teaching if you omit somewhat 4 credit hour course on c/c++ back in B.sc. You would be pretty much surprised if you know more specifically of how I came into this field and how I am doing right now.

    One of our artist came from textile engineering and doing just fine with his art development, another artist was from computer science and is very good in GC art. One animator is from electrical engineering background. That is just in game department; the others such as robotics, web etc is another story however.

    Hope this help. :)
     
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  19. orb

    orb

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    Like others say it's experience above degrees that matters. I've even seen recent job ads where they want people with active GitHub accounts and *maybe* some apps for app development jobs. They're in other words more interested in people who can get along with others and know a little programming, than paper-programmers with a stack of diplomas.

    [QUOTE="Martin_H, post: 2495605, member: 883812"you can still end up unemployed even with a degree, if a market is oversaturated.[/QUOTE]
    That seems to be the case with civil engineers here. Many were even promised a guaranteed position after their education was over, but it didn't happen. Many angry people looking to change fields now :/
     
  20. kaiyum

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    My case was different. I was offered three times for decent salary, but I was in love with game development and found it hard to leave. Hope I never have to go to the dreaded RCC design books(specially nelson), horrified ETABS etc.
     
  21. WalkingDead

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    THANK YOU my Good Sir!!

    And this here is the response I have been looking for!! From someone here who has knowledge of the HR process in a company. My uncle who is a professor of computer science in Miami and who has worked most of his life in Canada has told me the exact same thing. He said companies are more concerned about your past projects what you were able to accomplish, how much experience you have and what you can do for a company rather than the specific type of degree.

    So I found it really strange that people keep saying you need a computer science degree with all the fancy mathematics to do programming. My uncle writes to me and says in the real world the vast majority of projects you will be working on require only high school mathematics and you do not actually need a comp sci degree to get majority of things done. he says computer science is mostly researched based, and that it is overkill for most tasks you will be doing especially when you first start off.

    He did mention to me about starting up a github account and get involved in a open source project. He said start working on projects find a goal and commit to it.

    When I emailed "Info Tech Caribbean" for a programming position the HR emailed me back and said they don't even require a Degree. They say what they hold higher than a degree is experience. The woman said if I create a relevant mobile app and put it on the google store it could actually hold more weight than a Degree.

    So I found it odd why are some companies are willing to completely ignore degrees in favor of past projects and experience.
     
  22. hippocoder

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    I don't have any degrees and I have to fight off job offers with a stick. Even years later, recruitment offers pour in from agencies and so on that somehow got wind of me even though I never advertise or seek jobs.

    I think it's basically what @zombiegorilla said - experience trumps all. If you're still in game dev and thriving this far along, chances are you're probably doing something worth something to someone.

    If you are new, you still stand a better chance having some degree or other AND a game you made yourself if you want a job. But I would hire based on if someone was genuinely smart or not. Because if they're genuinely smart, they automatically prove they're reliable, adaptable etc etc.

    Genuine smarts is something you pick up really fast based on a casual chat tbh.
     
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  23. WalkingDead

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    ow wow sir you have given me a lot of hope here, I had no idea that experience was this valuable. And the thing is I know for a fact I could get jobs to build apps within a week if I was good at programming. Which is why I decided to dive as deep in it as I can, but I was lied to in the early stages about computer science.

    People was telling me you need advanced mathematics to become a programmer it is then my uncle who is a CS professor told me its nonsense and that most apps will only require normal high school mathematics if so much.

    The other thing to about this field, you don't even need someone to hire you to produce experience, I am guessing I can put out a substantial piece of software on the google app store and this in itself will be experience?

    What I am thinking is look through some freelance websites and see what kind of projects people are asking for and just pick one and work on it till one day I get through with it? and I can use this as my experience yeah?

    So hippocoder I am guessing you never came across the need to have advanced algorithm knowledge and all those fancy stuff like calculus in your coding career? yeah? as my uncle told me most stuff learned in university would pretty much be forgotten after a while as the real world will by large not be using any of it as CS is research based.
     
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  24. Polywick-Studio

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    It's like artists...
    Employers demand an apps-portfolio as it's worth than your degree.
     
  25. hippocoder

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    Well, the reason a degree is less important *to me* is because you need a degree if you're going to be handling something like engine development in 3D - things that Unity and UE4 handle for us.

    Understanding vector maths, standard high school maths, is all that is required for general game development. Far more important is finding someone who is smart, and smart means being able to reason and think through problems to solve them. Solutions are everywhere on the internet, the key is being smart enough to understand your problem so you know what question to ask.

    Pretty shocking most people can't figure out what the question really is. They only think they do. In reality, they're assuming based on very little real knowledge. TLDR: problem solvers are people who understand what the real questions are, not people who have a degree but do not really use it.

    But having said that, it is safer for an employer to ask for a degree, because it ticks all the basics, and saves a lot of time. This way though, they do miss some very sharp cookies... which I'm happy to hire.

    Please note though, I'm speaking in context of Unity game development, not in general, because in this industry, a job may require engine level talent, and for that you probably will run up against a lot of problems a degree will help you with. Not the paper, the experience and understanding. Since a degree doesn't guarantee competence, only the ability to pass an exam.
     
  26. JamesLeeNZ

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    The world doesn't revolve around game development. Also, this is pretty much wrong. Someone that's got a degree is more likely to write clean/concise/maintainable code with a decent structure, and proper programming principles.

    Someone with 'skills' and a computer doesn't meet these requirements. It takes a while to get your head screwed on properly.

    I would hire a guy with a degree over a guy with one or two years of 'skills'
     
  27. dogzerx2

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    I figure someone with a degree would bring more and/or better solutions to the table, if doing, like... a game that creates very complex geometry on the fly, and puts UV on it, and procedural textures, etc. Simple solutions you didn't even know existed that could save a LOT of time sometimes... although this person would need to be good at applying his knowledge to games, in a practical way.
     
  28. WalkingDead

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    Ooh yeah thats why I am saving up to finish my final year BSc in CIS. ts been on hold for some years so I decided its time I finished it. Atleast for the very least I would land an interview since some HRs like to tick the box for having a Degree, I noticed almost every position requires a degree in CS OR Related Field. I have seen many programming jobs that require a Degree in "information technology" or related field.

    No doubt I can get my computing and information system degree, but as you say most job only require just high school level mathematics for most real world projects, plus with C# being the standard where I am from and Visual Studio no one is writing any kind of low level code or anything like that. Most jobs here are database related, employee records and these stuff.

    Plus my country has an On the Job training program where you get a 2 year contract in the field of your choice so I am guaranteed 2 years working experience and a stipend. So I guess all of that can assist me this is why i was saying I could finish my CIS degree and learn the computer science stuff on my own that I feel might be beneficial to me.

    Even if I tried to do a computer science degree, my country has no school offering it part time and at 30 years old I can't depend on anyone to send me to school full time for 4 years you know. So I am just gonna make do with what i have and I mean you seem like a pretty good coder aswell you even get lots of job offers to this day so what the heck anything is possible with enough hard work.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2016
  29. dogmachris

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    One thing I've learned is that programmers can easily find a job without having a degree.

    There's a lot of companies who actually prefer programmers who cancelled studying or studied something differend - guess why - if the programming tasks don't require some advanced math or logic, that requires knowledge in certain fields, programmers without a degree are more than good enough if they just have anough experience - programmers with a degree have no additional benefits in those cases - and guess what else - they can afford to pay less to programmers without degrees. I've seen a lot of devs being exploited just because they initially studied philosophy...

    This phenomenon though is pretty much limited to programming, I haven't seen it anywhere else. I'm a mechanical engineer and for us it doesn't matter what we can do, all that matters is the paper you can show.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
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  30. WalkingDead

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    Hi there someone was telling me a similar story like this, I have a friend who only had a diploma and he somehow got the programming job over a guy with an actual real CS Degree. Months later he learned that the company hired him because they knew they would be able to pay him less than the person with the CS Degree, and all the company cared about was someone who could program in Java. The company obviously made a lot of money off him but he didn't care because he got a job and experience over others.

    He then went to another job and they never even once asked to see his Degree paper. The only thing the interviewer was concerned about was what he could actually do and a test was giving for him to sit.

    I guess its true, for the vast majority of jobs out there you will never be actually doing anything that requires what you learned in your CS Degree this is why my uncle who is a CS professor told me not to bother doing a CS Degree he said most jobs out there won't require anything that the CS Degree teaches. And that programming can be like cooking, learning hands on real world projects makes you a better cook than learning the science of the food. Or like a car mechanic vs a mechanical engineer, there are more jobs in repairs than there are in engineering because everyone has a small issue that needs to be fixed in a car, and while you need to know a few complex stuff to be a mechanic, the actual engineering science is not needed and people get by just fine.

    Dunno if his analogy makes sense but he says unless you are going into research or building complex stuff like an OS, he says CS Degree knowledge are largely never used and you tend to forget what you learned in university after a few years.
     
  31. Kiwasi

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    Chemical engineering is much the same. I've seen people with 30+ years experience passed up in favour of young guys with degrees. And you are totally shot if you have to switch companies without the degree. Experience counts a lot on top of the degree, but without the degree it's meaningless.

    I'm actually starting to bump up against the ceiling where I need an advanced degree to go any further.

    A degree might not be needed for game dev. But it's certainly not going to hurt. And it gives you a fall back in case games doesn't work out.
     
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  32. WalkingDead

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    I want to point out something I was attending a University here for a Bsc in Computer Engineering, I dropped out due to financial problems my father lost his job and so I could not afford it anymore. But my time there exposed something to me, all of the math courses offered were easy stuff, stuff you do in high school.
    The exams were incredibly easy to pass.

    So one can have a computer science or computer engineering degree but it could be one of those degrees not accredited and are not teaching what you would really be learning in a top ranked university. What was thought in school was what I could have easily pulled up online. Or what I could have learned from a text book for free.

    This is why I decided on finishing my CIS Degree (that says "computer science" on paper but is really an advanced CIS Degree") and just learning programming because what the school thought was a bit of a joke. I didn't need a tutor to learn those stuff so I figured I can finish my final year in CIS and just learn those maths and algorithms on my own.
     
  33. dogmachris

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    A degree is a good thing in itself but there's a thing that'll get you much MUCH further than any degree in the world: A good and trustworthy network.
     
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  34. WalkingDead

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    Let me show you guys something here is a past exam paper of the courses an engineering math and discrete math paper look how incredibly easy those stuff are this is at University of trinidad and tobago, its simply just A levels mathematics, high school stuff. When I went to school the teacher would not teach us he would only write out the working and answers to the problems. He told us to go on youtube and learn these things and practice.

    So I was like what the heck am I paying this huge amount of money here to do? I decided to just finish up my final year in my IT/CIS Degree because I could learn all these stuff online which is what they even told us to do. Don't forget the IT/CIS degree I am doing is also heavily based off Databases and Object Oriented Programming so I will still be doing some stuff found in computer science anyways. Plus the Degree paper will be incorrectly named "computer science" even though it is not. Its some British university named Hertfordshire that offers computer science degree without any maths. Who knows why? I am not complaining I just wanted to know what is possible and whats not when it comes to the actual teachings of a hardcore CS Degree then I found out 90% of what is thought in CS will not be used for your everyday clients.

    https://u.tt/libraries/past_papers/2014/2014_MATH1028_EngineeringMathematicsII_April 2014.pdf

    https://u.tt/libraries/past_papers/2014/2014_MATH1029_DiscreteMathematics_April 2014.pdf
     
  35. WalkingDead

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    You are so right, my best friend was looking for a job more than a year now with a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering he settled for a job as a PC technician he also works for this company that sets up security cameras. Funny thing I make an alright living from building websites with Joomla and templates because I can convince people that they need a website and I make no mention of what a CMS is because if they knew they would just built the website themselves.

    Most of my clients still think only a genius can make a website so I say nothing and charge my quota.
     
  36. iamthwee

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    Because like all universities they get by on the premise that you want to better yourself at any cost.
     
  37. iamthwee

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    You'll be wanting to check out ignitedcms pro. I made it, you won't use joomla or wordpress again.

    https://github.com/ignitedcms/ignitedcms-pro
     
  38. dogmachris

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    Tell them about Joomla, and your jobs will still come in. Tell them about wordpress, and you'll be living off the welfare very soon. :D

    Also luckily most people don't realise how much of an overkill Joomla probably is for them. ;)
     
  39. WalkingDead

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    I will check it out but I mainly use Joomla etc because of the vast amount of templates offered someone can come and ask for a website on a classifieds site I will say ok that will be $1200 USD. And it would be so easy for me to spend $60 on a template and configure it for them.

    Funny how life works out, all what I learned in my IT degree about creating databases from scratch, I use nothing of the sort in the real world. Most of those theory stuff goes through the window because of theme forest. And with my clients always concerned about budget and cost they are always willing to settle for what the template can offer.
     
  40. iamthwee

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    The premise can still be applied to ignited-cms except you use a html template, it offers a vastly better customization.

    http://recordit.co/qP0WPRPU6l
    http://recordit.co/ErScplTq0r
     
  41. WalkingDead

    WalkingDead

    Guest

    LOl yeah the only downside to these stuff is the hacking, I swear joomla and wordpress get hacked so often I put the strongest passwords known to man and it still gets hacked. Maybe I should try doing updates more regularly or if only I could block the whole Asian continent and Russian continent would be great. lol

    You know I found out something that could be really useful to me, building custom plugins for wordpress or joomla. But even then you can get plugins for almost anything now and cheaply aswell. LOL but I wanna learn it, should be useful.
     
    dogmachris likes this.
  42. WalkingDead

    WalkingDead

    Guest

    Very interesting how long it took you to make this?

    Do you work for a company or something? what kind of degree do you have and where did you get it?

    I should mention that its stuff along this line I want to do in life, not make a whole CMS but you know create custom plugins, actually modify the CMS to do anything needed.
     
  43. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2013
    Posts:
    16,860
    This is more of a political question then a game dev question. It comes down to a failure on the part of your government to fufil some of their basic duties.
    • Provide affordable access to education for all citizens.
    • Regulate education so that every person who achieves each qualification level has the same basic skills and competencies, regardless of the institution attended.
    If you live in a country without these basic provisions, then the question of 'should I get a degree' becomes more complex. But otherwise a degree is normally the right choice.
     
    McMayhem and Ryiah like this.
  44. iamthwee

    iamthwee

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2015
    Posts:
    2,149
    It took me a month but was largely based around ideas like builtwithcraft, which is a much tighter CMS for fine grained customisation, wordpress doesn't allow.

    Essentially, I use ignitedcms-pro for the backend and spend $20 on a themeforest html front end. The rest is history. I've never used wordpress or joomla since.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  45. dogmachris

    dogmachris

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Posts:
    1,375
    Plugins are what makes cms vulnerable in the first place. Whenever you allow a user to bi-directionally exchange data with the server, it's only a matter of time until your website shows up on some speed cracking contest forum for script kiddies. Ever used plugins that allow users to upload an "image"? :D
     
  46. RichardKain

    RichardKain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Posts:
    1,261
    I am currently working a job as a web-developer/programmer. I spend most of my day writing C#, javascript, HTML, and CSS. I produce controllers, models, and sophisticated SQL queries. In my free time, I develop custom Unity editor assets all by my lonesome.

    My college degree is in graphic design, with minors in business management and theater. It is a Bachelor of Arts, not science. I only took one math class in college, College Algebra. (one of the easiest of all college math courses)

    So no, you do not need a Bachelor of Science in order to be a programmer. In all honesty, you don't even have to know all that much math. Such advantages certainly wouldn't hurt, but they aren't prerequisites. If you really want to program, you can just roll up your sleeves, fire up your IDE of choice, and get cracking. And as long as you have proven programming experience, there is going to be someone out there willing to hire you. (programmers tend to be in high demand at most employers)

    Granted, it took my career the better part of a decade to get where I am now. I learned gradually how to do all of this stuff on my own time. And I turned out to have a natural gift for problem solving, which is extremely valuable to programming. So this course is not for everyone. But yes, it is entirely possible.
     
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  47. Steve-Tack

    Steve-Tack

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Posts:
    1,240
    It seems like you're asking at least three different questions in your original post, but yeah, I agree with your uncle on that.

    1. Do I need a degree to get hired as an apps or games programmer? That clearly depends on who's hiring and what they see as important, but I can say that if I was hiring, it wouldn't be a huge factor.


    2. Do I need advanced math to create normal applications? I've been doing boring "push data in and out of databases" type business apps for 25 years, and the most advanced "math" I can think of needing to do is a standard deviation. And it was just a matter of calling the Oracle function STDDEV.

    Now there are situations where you might need to come up with a tricky algorithm for something, but that's about logic, not math. Those are two different things.

    That said, there *are* programming jobs that do require advanced math, even in the boring business world. There are some pretty hard core data analysis jobs out there for example. That's not typical though.

    I had to take calculus, differential equations, and some other junk, and it was all completely gone from my brain after I graduated (I do have a comp sci degree). Sometimes I think college/uni was a massive waste of time and money. There's no exotic knowledge I acquired that you couldn't pick up from books, online content, and some practice. I get that part of having a degree is proving you can stick with something, but I don't know if it really proves much. Where I want to school, there were a lot of business majors who just partied a lot and still managed to graduate.


    3. Do I need advanced math to create games? Absolutely not. If you were going to code up a 3D collision system from scratch, that could get pretty intense, but almost nobody does that. You more often use a game engine or at least a physics engine or whatever. Or, you know, make 2D games that don't need much tech anyway.

    It depends on the type of game a lot, but normally you just have to know a handful of things. For 3D games, you may need to get comfortable with some vector and matrix math in terms of knowing what you're doing, but the actual calculations you need are often handled for you in a math library and/or game engine. If you're going to program custom shaders, you may need a bit more, but most iterations of shaders you'd need are either built into your game engine, or in the case of Unity you can just buy what you need.

    Some people even make simple games with zero programming. If you use a node-based state machine like Playmaker, you can do a certain amount without any programming at all. That's not my cup of tea, but I think it shows how much you can get out of the tools available these days.
     
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  48. elmar1028

    elmar1028

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Posts:
    2,359
    If you open any AAA game companies' careers page, most of them require you to have "a minimum of 3-5 experience in the game industry and/or a Computer Science degree".

    But it doesn't mean you don't need a degree.

    Studying computer science will grant you knowledge and understanding of concepts of programing, which can be applied in your future career.
     
  49. WalkingDead

    WalkingDead

    Guest

    What about hacks? any issues with malware and "this site has been reported as an attack side" what to do get me out of here.

    Wordpress and Joomla are magnet for hackers
     
  50. WalkingDead

    WalkingDead

    Guest

    ow ho yes I use Dj media tools and stuff for people to upload images because I thought that filezilla access to the server might cause the virus as they might have virus on their PC or something maybe I was wrong all this time.

    So what are your thoughts on alternative to plugins and these sort of things?