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Chromaestro - Feedback thread

Discussion in 'Works In Progress - Archive' started by AgentParsec, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    As I've had a lot of major changes since posting the last Chromaestro thread, I've started a new one for feedback. It's getting very near completion, as all I really have left to do is the rest of the music. I've uploaded the latest version of Chromaestro as a webplayer:

    *webplayer link removed*

    (Choose "Rehearsal Mode" in order to play the tutorial and learn how to play.)



    Overview:

    Chromaestro is a puzzle game in which you draw paths to link Green Gems; the longer the path, the more points you get. However, Red Gems that block your path may appear along the paths that you draw. The Red Gems can cause nearby tiles to sparkle, which will either become pits if left alone or turn into Blue Gems if you include them in a path. Blue Gems can be used later to fill in pits and other effects (each song will have a different Blue Gem effect).

    As you play, the gems on the board will procedurally generate the game's music. You can also play with this feature by itself in Composer Mode.

    Right now I only have 2 songs (neither of which are entirely completed yet, they only have 4 levels worth of music before they loop), but hope to expand it by a considerable amount.

    I will eventually be taking the webplayer down, but for now I'd like some overall feedback, especially on:
    • The gameplay (it's hard at first but should get easier as you learn to play)
    • The music (this is where the game is supposed to really shine)
    • The graphics (I've done a graphical uplift and would like to know if it works well)
    • Chromie! (the cat in the corner as you play, it's my first time doing 2D animations)
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  2. Afilion

    Afilion

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    Love the Music! :)
     
  3. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Thanks! I'm also trying to decide how many songs I should have completed before I start on either Kickstarter or Greenlight.
     
  4. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Sorry to bump this thread, but as this is getting very near completion, I could really use more feedback, particularly on the graphics and the addition of Chromie.
     
  5. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Another thing I could use some advice on (from someone else who has successfully released a project) is exactly how to proceed with the release. This would be my first self-published project, and I probably need to go through Steam Greenlight to do it if I want to aim for Steam. Are there preparations I should make? If I'm going to Kickstarter, should I do that first or at the same time? Are there costs I should worry about? (So far I haven't had any besides my own work time.) Do I need to apply for trademarks? Any advice on these would be very helpful.

    Also, feedback on the current progress above is still very much welcome.
     
  6. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I've fixed a few of Chromie's animations and uploaded the new version.
     
  7. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Sorry to bump again, but I really, REALLY could use more feedback than just "Love the music!"
     
  8. Salim

    Salim

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    If this can help; I've read your explanation of the rules and then tried to play but I struggled in understanding what to do or how to win. The game board feels like alien technology. Maybe have a design that is more self-explanatory and adding more visual feedback during gameplay can help people get into the game more easily. Good luck for your project!
     
  9. SememeS

    SememeS

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    Hello @AgentParsec

    First off, well done.

    My sister really loves these kind of games but mainly on her phone and same for my mother but her on her pad, so I think it would be good to aim for mobile with this.

    On Gameplay:

    I had trouble with the rehearsal mode. At first I wasn't sure I could keep going(after you drag the dots for the first time)
    I thought the rehearsal was broken. You could potentially use a back to menu button here to exit smoothly.

    Then after playing a game and getting game over ;) went back to rehearsal and realized that I hadn't even done the rehearsal properly. Now I am starting to get a good hang of gameplay and it's very fun.

    I think if you had a better starting explanation in rehearsal It would make this fun gameplay shine more.

    what i mean here is just for the first 2 examples of rehearsal, be more direct. I realized the first time I didn't even take the time to read the explanation.

    On Music:

    Amazing. I really like it. I have to say this is the strongest point. I have nothing to comment on here other than keep up the amazing work. This music really gives a nice tingle inside and keeps me in the zone. The Gameplay driven music/sounds really makes the game fun and interesting for me.

    On Graphics:

    I really am not a fan of they grey slabs. Maybe more "transparent" like crystals? Your music sounds like crystals are playing so a more crystalline look could fit nicely.

    What I mean here is you can keep the same exact pic for the slab. But no cement texture. Just use the same shape as "glass" maybe a bit transparent so that it doesn't look like a cement slab?

    The half-alpha yellow on black for the lights make it look brown on my screen, maybe only ad yellow when its lit up? It would also help better see which are lit up. (the lights on the contour)

    I'm not a fan of the gauge on the right. It feels out of place. I understand I have to fill it but it just distracts me too much.
    Why don't you use Chromie somehow to show progress Instead of a gauge? I don't really know how or even if you should but somehow I think you could use chromie more :) Or maybe its also a gem and it shines more instead of filling a bar?

    I'm not sure with that since many people seem to like filling bars but its just a personal suggestion.


    On Chromie the Cat:

    love Chromie the cat. period.

    I realized i was also bobbing my head with the cat at some point.


    After playing few times I'm starting to get the hang of gameplay and I'm really enjoying it. Once you have a flow going you can really get some nice music. And the want for more sounds drove me to play better so that's a very nice element.

    Keep up hard work, this is going in a very interesting direction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  10. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Thanks for all the feedback! I'm trying to think of ways to make the tutorial clearer about what you need to do. Maybe if the player has to click an OK button to move to the next part of it, to ensure that they're reading everything? (On a separate note, I've also considered modifying the text into a talk bubble to make it look like Chromie's giving the tutorial.)

    Replacing the texture on the tiles is doable. Maybe if I went for something more shiny-looking, like a silver or chrome. I definitely want it to be colorless though (so that the gems stand out), and at least visible enough to function as a tile (glass might be too 'clear').

    The sidebar is technically not necessary since the score and target are on the upper left, but it's always nice to have a visual of some sort that lets you know instantly how far you have to go. Maybe I could spruce it up and animate it some more somehow, but I don't think I want to get rid of it.

    In previous versions, there was a settings button in the lower left, but I replaced it with Chromie. I haven't put the Settings button anywhere else yet since I don't have a good place for it on the screen currently. Maybe clicking on Chromie could do it...

    One last thing about mobile devices: it's my understanding (unless I'm wrong, in which case could someone straighten me out on this?) that mobile versions of Unity games can only play 8 sounds at a time, while this really needs the PC maximum of 32 for the music to function properly. I discovered this while fixing a sound bug, and unfortunately it puts a damper on my ability to put this out on mobile devices, unless there's a workaround.
     
  11. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I'm changing the tile texture to look more like silver as I mentioned before, though I'm worried that it looks a bit too bright now. I want the gems to visually "pop out" from the rest of the board, so I might have to darken the tiles a little to compensate for the additional brightness. I'll update the webplayer once I settle on something.
     
  12. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I've re-uploaded the webplayer with the tile changes. I just need to figure out what to change on the tutorial. Could I get a little more information on what exactly wasn't made clear on it? After re-reading the feedback, I'm not sure what was meant by "At first I wasn't sure I could keep going(after you drag the dots for the first time)"...
     
  13. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Uploaded a small update. Chromie previously bobbed her head to the beat if you didn't do anything for a short time; now she has two different ways she does it.

    I've been thinking about the tutorial, and I think what it needs are some intermediate messages between the ones that are already there that describe the gameplay in more detail, with a 'Next' button to move on to the next message. I've also been thinking about turning it into a talk/think bubble and making it look as if Chromie is giving the tutorial.
     
  14. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Some more feedback I got recently says that the penalty when the guide passes over your old path should be changed to a bonus instead, because gameplay-wise, penalties tend to push players away, while bonuses push them to try and find better ways of getting the best combos. I think I might try that, and save the penalty for one of the blue gem types later on.

    Another piece of feedback I got was that the graphics, while nice by themselves, don't really match Chromie's style. The suggestion was to go with a style similar to Chromie, so that it looks more uniform. I haven't decided if I'm going to do that yet, so I could use some additional feedback on whether or not that would be a good idea.
     
  15. Whiteleaf

    Whiteleaf

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    GAAAAHHHH! GAH.JPG

    It's pretty addictive. :p
     
  16. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Uploaded a new version. This has simplified tile designs in order to match Chromie a little better. I also added some sound effects when choosing menu options. The biggest changes, however, are:

    • The tutorial (Rehearsal Mode) is now a lot more detailed now, and should explain everything thoroughly.
    • I took out the confusing "penalty for the guides passing over your old path", and replaced it with a bonus. The tutorial will explain in more detail. I also increased the number of points per level you need from 15k to 20k to compensate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  17. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I've updated again, adding a third song, "Excurse" (which currently only has 3 levels of music to it). I could still use feedback on the new tutorial as well.
     
  18. SememeS

    SememeS

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    The new tutorial is much better and is really easy to understand. I like alot that Chromie is giving us the tutorial.
     
  19. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Thanks, I realized the other day that Chromie's position next to the tutorial box meant only a small change to make Chromie give the tutorial. It also served as a good way to introduce her. :D
     
  20. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Ok, since my last update I've made quite a few changes:

    • There's a 4th song, "Circuitous", which I classify as a "hard" song since the blue gem's effect is detrimental instead of a bonus (you lose points if the blue gem is between the guides when you finish a new path). NONE of the songs are completed yet though; in particular I still have level transitions to finish and some other modifications to make.
    • Added some background effects, with different patterns for different songs.
    • When you get the scoring bonus from your old path, it pops up a "+10%" message so that you can see the effect better, and it also serves as a way of showing the player that something is happening.
    • Chromie now gives a worried look if the path you're about to complete has any possibility of resulting in a game over, even if it's infinitesimally small. If she doesn't look worried, you're safe. (I actually found one scenario where you could get a game over without her looking worried, but the board layout would be so difficult to get that I don't expect anyone ever to find themselves in that situation. Seriously, even TRYING to get the layout I can't get anything close to it. So I'm not worried.)
    • Added extra sound effects on the main menu and settings menu.
    • Added Chromie to the main menu (she sometimes goes by in the background).

    Same webplayer link as in the first post. Feedback very much appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  21. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Once again, sorry to bump, but I could really use some more feedback.
     
  22. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Bumping once more. I really need some more feedback at this stage.
     
  23. Itaros

    Itaros

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    Beautiful! It needs more polished graphics and this can hit the stores. I will definitely buy a copy.
     
  24. R-Lindsay

    R-Lindsay

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    OK, I'll offer some.

    I had a quick play and took the tutorial for a spin. The music is great and definitely your strong point, although the graphics are not at the same level (I think you already know this).

    After playing through the tutorial I have some criticisms about its structure (not your gameplay, just how the tutorial is presented).
    The tutorial walk through is very long and information dense; too long/dense for almost anything, much less a game.

    The way your tutorial currently works is by presenting a series of modal dialogs. Do you happen to know how many modal dialog steps there are in your tutorial? 26. Twenty Six. That's about 23 too many. I will bet money that you worked hard to make the tutorial and will be reluctant to change it. So I'm going to offer you another way to approach this kind of problem for you to think about, if not for this project, then for future projects.

    Chromaestro Tutorial V2.
    The problem we are trying to solve is how to bring the player up to speed with gameplay. We want them playing and exploring as soon as possible.
    We remove the tutorial option and incorporate a series of tutorial levels that unlock the rest of the game modes but which can be skipped for experienced players.

    We no longer have a single tutorial level with 26(!) steps. Instead we have a series of simplified levels with minimal supporting text.

    Level 1.
    In level 1 we are simply connecting two gems. There are no red gems, blue gems, holes, etc. The gem essence bar fills up much quicker to make sure the user isn't bored since the gameplay has been simplified. The supporting text is reduced to something like "connect the two gems to fill the essence bar" or whatever you call it. Through discovery play the users learns that previous connections create 'walls' that stick around for a turn. We do not need to point this out explicitly. We avoid text for anything that can be taught with animations. We quickly infer that the level ends when the collector is full. We also might notice that the position of the gems affects the music.

    Level 2
    We now introduce a new concept: red gems.
    Beware! If two red gems are next to each other a nearby tile will begin to sparkle.
    Try and cover sparkling tiles with your path to stop them falling into the pit!

    Again, we don't need to have screens dedicated to things like explaining you cant actually path over a pit. That is what discovery play is for (and it's intuitive).
    this custom has lots of red gems and sparkling tiles, but it is balanced to be trivially easy to complete.

    Level 3
    Last major concept for play: blue gems fill in holes, and double your points.
    See that sparkling tile? Your path will not only stop it falling into the pit, but it will turn into a blue gem.
    Collect blue gems to double your essence and fill in holes!

    This custom level has lots of blue gems and holes, but it is balanced to be trivially easy to complete.

    Benefits of this method
    Of course, my example should not be implemented exactly as given. I don't know your game well enough. Try and focus on the idea I'm presenting more than the specifics.
    By introducing the game in a more measured piece wise fashion the user is able to immediately put into practice what they have learned in each level. The current tutorial expects me to remember what I've been taught across 26 dialogues, and only then lets me freely try it out.

    Following on from this you should be able to drastically reduce the number of words needed to convey how to play the game. Many of the dialogs are not really needed because they are teaching me the finer points of the game, but don't help me get started playing it (because I can play it whether I know that particular finer point or not). Or the are teaching me things that I can easily infer on my own through discovery play.

    Closing thought
    I like the music and the idea of the gems modifying it depending on how the outside bars are travelling.
    Keep working on it!
     
  25. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I agree about the length of the tutorial, but it used to be less than 1/3 that long and all the feedback I got about it was that it wasn't detailed enough. The concepts of the game are hard to get across without a sufficient explanation. While I agree that training the player through a series of small challenges is probably the best way to go, it would be difficult to do, both due to the way I wrote the system (it doesn't adapt itself well to short challenges) and in trying to explain concepts like the 2 red gem = sparkling tile rule and the previous path bonus, which have been hard for people to infer.

    Also, I realize the graphics are not super quality, but the entire project is being made by one person (myself), and I don't have much experience with graphics. That said, I've been trying to respond to feedback and have modified the style of the graphics a few times. Currently, they're made more simplistic to match Chromie's style a little better, but if there are any other specific things that look like the need to be fixed, I'd like to know what they are.
     
  26. R-Lindsay

    R-Lindsay

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    I suspected you would be reluctant to look at the tutorial. I even predicted it :)

    Perhaps just let this roll around in the back of your mind, for your next project "Is a 26 step tutorial the best way to introduce the concepts of my game? Can I think of another way?" If your game engine restricts short tutorial like levels, perhaps see if you can work that into your next game engine design.

    I understand that for one person game it's going to be tough to be a master of everything, and just finishing the game itself is a milestone. You should be happy with your overall idea (I think it's neat) and the music is really good.
     
  27. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    You misunderstand; I would like to do a shorter tutorial, I even attempted it before... I just can't get it to work with the way the game engine is right now, and simply shortening the existing tutorial makes it difficult to get the concepts across successfully.
     
  28. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I've uploaded the latest build of Chromaestro. New to this version is:

    • The 5th song ("Chromaestro") is new, and is also the first complete song (5 levels worth).
    • The 1st song ("Effort") is basically complete, though I might modify the level 5 to 6 transition.
    • Chromie now has accessories that can be changed from the options menu on the main menu. In the full game, these accessories will be unlockables, but for now they're all unlocked (just like all the songs are unlocked).
    • The webplayer build doesn't show it, but the PC build now allows you to modify the screen resolution (and fullscreen settings) from the options menu. (Webplayer doesn't need it, so it takes out those settings automatically.)
    As always, feedback appreciated.

    *EDIT* I just noticed a bug, it WILL display the resolution settings when you first go into the settings screen, but then take it away when you switch away from it. And, as it turns out, you CAN modify the webplayer resolution to some degree if fullscreen is on. I will fix this and re-upload when I get the chance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  29. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Uploaded a fix for the webplayer, the options menu should show the correct options now.
     
  30. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Not in the webplayer version yet, but I'm currently working on the code to lock everything that has not yet been unlocked. This code will probably undergo some massive changes when I eventually begin working on Steam integration.
     
  31. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    And now everything is locked (again, not in the webplayer version). All that's really left is to finish up the two remaining songs, although I MIGHT make some more songs.

    My biggest problem now is trying to figure out the right way to make a trailer for this. How does one make a trailer for a music-based puzzle game? I can't montage it since the music wouldn't line up, and it would also just be a montage of essentially the same screen.
     
  32. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Still looking for feedback, and suggestions about what to do for a trailer. Any help is appreciated.
     
  33. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I'm taking down the link for the webplayer version for now as I'm getting closer to completion.
     
  34. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    I haven't posted an update to this thread in a long time, but I've gotten to the point now where I need to get a trailer made for this. Does anyone know where I can find someone to hire who can make a good trailer, or would I be better off trying to do it myself?
     
  35. AgentParsec

    AgentParsec

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    Once again, I haven't updated in over a month, but I'd like to add that I'm making progress on a trailer myself now. As it turns out, I'm not that great with movie editing software, and it's even harder to make sure everything lines up with the music properly. I found a workaround, however: where I'm not that great with movie editing sotware, I am pretty good with programming. So instead, I'm just going to make an in-game trailer through programming. Then all I have to do is record it once, and I'm done.

    I've set an artificial deadline for myself of one week to finish the trailer (artificial meaning, if I miss it, I'm not going to be upset about it).