Bootcamp into Multiplayer in 5 min, without writing a single code line

Discussion in 'Showcase' started by aidin, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. aidin

    aidin

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    Sorry If I might sound profound, but I been given this privilege by my team to share with you, the rest of the world, the absolute joy of using this fantastic tool. We call it uLink.

    Network is somewhat of an abused child when it comes to gamedev. People say it is so hard and troublesome, but the fact is that it is never done properly. That's why it needs to be reinvented over and over again. uLink has changed that. uLink was born out of disappointment but made to inspire and built to last.

    Instead of me ranting features, I made this short video where I made Bootcamp into Multiplayer.



    Try out uLink: unitypark3d.com/ulink

    You will love every minute of it. I will happily answer any questions that you might have.

    Yours,
    Aidin
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  2. scarpelius

    scarpelius

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    Nice demo, but i have my doubts about the price: €8,680.00 will be a no no for lots of people around here.
    And considering the prices and conditions offered by competition, i will go with them at this point.
    Also your server seems to be windows/mac only.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  3. Andrew_atl

    Andrew_atl

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    Yeah I was excited about this, then I saw the price.
     
  4. drewradley

    drewradley

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    five minutes PLUS $10,000...
     
  5. aidin

    aidin

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    Unfortunatly the price is not up to me, but thank you for the question!

    For commercial projects, this is a non-issue since it cuts your development cost into a fraction. Really nice indie projects will be given a license. Bribes, flatter and general niceness is encouraged.

    Regarding platform, we support all Unity platforms.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  6. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    I normally don't like to be a negative on such a scale either, especially if something looks interesting as yours does which to me looks a lot like "Unity Networking + what people consider missing on it" (peer to peer, unrealiable RPC, full serialize RPC datatype support), layed out rather well going by API and Manual.

    But I agree that the price is pretty high.
    In todays environment with so many network middleware in place it will be interesting to see if this will work out in your favor as you are in the upper range of all these technologies with full proofen MMO technologies being cheaper ( HeroCloud / Big World Indie)

    Unhappily your technology licensing reminds me a bit of NetDog which at release cost $30k for single server, undisclosed NDA private per project cost enquiries for the multi node real MMO technology, which has likely cost them any chance to hit market, resulting in a new low cost single node licensing which doesn't reflect how solid, easy and performant it is when used appropriately.

    I hope it will work out for you or that you decide to make it more approachable to Indies price wise which can not fork out 5 figures for networking middleware soon enough to not get "forgotten" again as other technologies with this kind of problems unhappily were, as I would love to see it in action due to the potential it has with talented developers that are capable of using it correctly and efficiently.

    The only negative I saw is that its UDP only, while you mention "all platforms", which with mobile networking in the mix might give some backfire.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  7. janpec

    janpec

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    Yes +1 to upper comment. Hero engine is 5k and is a full server-engine development tool.
     
  8. liverolA

    liverolA

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    wow,amazing,downloading and test
     
  9. Gaspedal

    Gaspedal

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    Nice tool but I Prefer to Ultimate Network Project, costs 80$ and can same thing and I need 30 minutes for this. :)
    For $10,000 I can license the Unreal Engine for my projects.... You should offer your project to electronic arts and not to hobby programmers or low-budget companies. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  10. ivanzu

    ivanzu

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    10,000 $ is just too much i could buy all the tools i ever going to need for that much of money .
     
  11. liverolA

    liverolA

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    there should be a indie version ..i think.
    7000euro is a big one .
    good product should be a popular product at first!
     
  12. gamenut30111

    gamenut30111

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    Alright, I admit that this pack is very valuable to someone designing a multiplayer game, however this price is insane, you are selling a pack for $10,000 on a largely indie forum. I'm sorry, but I don't think I have that kind of money available for one pack. This forum tends to want work for less than $200, as that is their limit usually. I personally don't think you will have much luck with this, however if you do even get one sale, you will have made more than me with all of mine.
     
  13. drewradley

    drewradley

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    This reminds me of a joke about someone selling something for a million dollars. The punchline was they only had to sell one.
     
  14. gamenut30111

    gamenut30111

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    Well, I think we can all say that this is one pack that even Evo-Gaming won't be able to get.
     
  15. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    @gamenut: I don't think that $200 is reasonable for such a power tech either, $500 - $1000 per project would be reasonable out of my view as you are still bound to unitys limitation on platforms, dedicated server, multithreading.

    The only thing that I dislike about the tech itself is the 30 day trial, that just does not work out for networking, a time unlimited version that allows your game to only have XX concurrent users in your game (make the trial license being forced to use a special trial master server which requires master server verification with the trial license to impose such a "per trial license" limit) so people can check if it really works for their purposes would out of my view be favorable (at the $500 - $1000 price tag it would be favorable, at 7000€ its just a must, after all you want to them to bind in and buy in into your tech not drop it cause they ran out of time)
     
  16. gamenut30111

    gamenut30111

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    I realize that $1000 is a perfectly fair price for something if it is worth it, however people here usually aren't willing to pay above $200. An example of this is the MMO Character Pack post that started on the gossip thread recently, those models were clearly worth $1000 - $2000 as suggested by one of the other members, however many people there were complaining about the pricing.
     
  17. 2dfxman1

    2dfxman1

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    I did and after seeing this selling for 10k, I'd rather buy 10 mmo models :)

    TBH this doesn't seem worthy to anyone who actually knows what they're doing.
    As far as I understand, all this does is run one game as server and others as client with master server in the mix. Which I suppose means that all it does is bind default unity networking into something that is easy to set up. But for that money I think developing your own code with full control would be much better.
    I don't see small people using this because of the price, I don't see big people using this because they can do something like that on their own.
    As someone else said, that networking project for 30$ or so bucks pretty much shows everything.
    For 10k I could buy unity pro + iphone pro and android pro.
    And a modeling package.
    And since it uses the default unity networking, it means it's not even capable of mmos. So for enthusiasts who want to make their own mmo, this won't do either(but as someone else said, heroengine indie costs less and is a fully featured mmo engine)

    So yeah, the product is nice, the price is an outrage.

    Also on your site I saw that you compared with photon, and you said that photon doesn't support p2p. It's true, it doesn't by default, but with a bit of coding you could easily integrate that.
    And statistics? What kind of a feature is that?

    Whoever decided the price did his calculations a bit wrong. Even industry proven tools are usually cheaper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  18. drewradley

    drewradley

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    maybe there is a coma or decimal misplaced? Or a really bad currency exchange and it's supposed to be 10,000 Yen?
     
  19. 2dfxman1

    2dfxman1

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    No it costs 8,470.00(with tax) euros, which is 11 759.748 U.S
    10k yen is 120 usd, which would be rather nice :D
     
  20. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    it actually does much more than unity networking. Already that it supports any serializable thing to be send through (unreliable) RPC is a serious gain, but so is peer 2 peer which allows you multi node server backend ends (this is also backed up by the redirect feature) which communicate through p2p RPCs

    Thats why I think $500-$1000 per title is definitely in the reasonable range, given it works (not tested far), as this is definitely some usefull extra value over unity.

    With some luck (I kind of expect it actually) the system processes its messages in distinct threads unlike unity whichs main problem on networking is that all runs in the main thread which for message handling on a server becomes a major bottleneck extremely fast.

    Whats missing is information on the uGame related stuff when it comes to multi node server backend as you need some form of shared persistent memory. there is a note on it but thats all I found

    if it is just wrapping around unity networking adding a few nice features then a $1000+ price definitely would be over the top but the docs on serialization and communication indicate that its not a unity network wrap just something that looks like it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  21. theinfomercial

    theinfomercial

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    That price is a joke. The person who suggested the price should be ashamed. Unity Pro is 6.7x less expensive than that. I could buy Unity Pro + Unity iPhone Pro + Android Pro + Asset Server for half the price of this thing. That's just ridiculous.
     
  22. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    More like 1-2 times, cause a team requires 3-4 Pro licenses too, but thats exactly the problem, there are already major costs and another 5 figure hit "just for the networking" is out of reach for the vast majority
     
  23. minevr

    minevr

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    Wow~~~€7,000.00... :(
     
  24. theinfomercial

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    Wouldn't that also require 3-4 licenses of the networking engine? I was speaking on a per license basis. 10,000 for a network engine license, 1,500 for Unity Pro license. 10,000 / 1500 = 6.7.

    Also, it seems that it's licensed per title. Just wow.
     
  25. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    No it wouldn't require multiple licenses.
    As you realized, its per title and per title means 1 license per title, teamsize irrelevant
     
  26. Artimese

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    It should be bootcamp into multiplayer in 1 month, because you would probably earn that much working for a month-ish :p
     
  27. Frank Oz

    Frank Oz

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    Am I the only one who spat my coffee everywhere from laughing when I read this post? lol! Classic :D
     
  28. theinfomercial

    theinfomercial

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    Ah. I figured that since his price was ridiculous, I would have thought his EULA would have been as well. Lol :p

    Hey Now! Evo Gaming is obviously a pirater, or so wealthy he doesn't know what to do with himself (or is lying). Lets not count him out just yet! :D
     
  29. Frank Oz

    Frank Oz

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    lol :D

    EVO only downloads from illegal links to "test and scan" the contents, he wont use them, he promises. ;)
     
  30. Scoppio

    Scoppio

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    You do USD$10K a month?........ are they hiring at your job?
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  31. theinfomercial

    theinfomercial

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    +1
     
  32. Frank Oz

    Frank Oz

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    I know a girl who earns that in a month, but I don't think you'd want an application form. The only time her job involved computers was when she starred in cyborg sex demons from the planet clitoris..
     
  33. gamesurgeon

    gamesurgeon

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    On a side note, I like the avatar, Frank Oz.

    I just wrote a Beckett-inspired piece of fiction the other night!

    And yes, $10,000 is way too much. I'm hoping he added an extra 0 somewhere.
     
  34. theinfomercial

    theinfomercial

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    That was a good movie. Excellent plot. :p
     
  35. Frank Oz

    Frank Oz

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    Agreed, very high production values and awesome acting, though the main protagonist was a dick



    ... *groans* It's way too early for me to be making jokes like these :p
     
  36. Novodantis

    Novodantis

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    Lol, same! =D
     
  37. Gaspedal

    Gaspedal

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    As said, I boycott tools assets with crazy license conditions.
    We want simple pay for a asset or tool and use it in all our projects.

    - no expensive price
    - no additional agreements
    - no royalties
    - no per Title license
    - no logos !!!!
    - no time limit


    I call to boycott assets with these conditions
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  38. WebWolfRussian

    WebWolfRussian

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    7000 ?? are you crazy?
     
  39. Christian_Lonnholm

    Christian_Lonnholm

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    Hi guys!

    I am the one at the Unity Park team that is responsible for the debated pricing of uLink. After carefully reading all your posts I see that the gist of the issue is that we are not yet offering an indie version and that the commercial price is too steep for most of your pockets. In hindsight, it seems as if we are giving the vivid indie community a stiff finger and showing up a much desired network solution just out of reach for the passionate but economically struggling Unity developers. Sorry for that.

    In time, we will be able to offer an indie licence but at the moment we need to grow our user base slowly to make sure that we can take good care of them. But until then, we have to realize our lack of marketing wizardry and not forget that we are just a group of engineers that make mistakes. So, e-mail me at christian@unitypark3d.com and I will be giving away licenses to the people that have been complaining here.

    As Artimese wrote, 7000 € is pretty much what it would cost to have an engineer in a company for one month. It is a lot of money but that is what companies have to pay or else another company hires the engineer to solve another problem worthy of their talent. We have spent 1.5 years of our lives developing uLink. It might look like yet another network product for Unity - but it is so much more. E-mail me and find out first hand!
     
  40. Frank Oz

    Frank Oz

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    Wait.. you're going to give everyone who complained in this thread, free licenses of a $10,000 program? For real? How will you know who's who?


    Edit: Edit:

    It's legit! :O :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  41. larvantholos

    larvantholos

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    Well, something to bitch about maybe, that email doesn't seem to exist ;) :p
     
  42. Christian_Lonnholm

    Christian_Lonnholm

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    Frank,

    Good point. I will of course not be able to be 100% sure, 100% of the time but it is better to be too generous than too cheap.
     
  43. megmaltese

    megmaltese

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    Well and this may be the best promotion step you'd ever do for your marketing campaign... after all if some of those licenses will grow into a final product worth of attention they will probably bring clients.

    Anyway, I would consider a "reduced" version for indies, with limited number of clients supported and such limitations for a very lower price... that would make also good money I think.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  44. Frank Oz

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    You could contact each user in the thread prior to your announcement, with a download link and personal license key. At least that way you know who's getting what, and if anything ends up in the wild, you'll know who did it. Probably the safest way you can do it I would think.
     
  45. Christian_Lonnholm

    Christian_Lonnholm

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  46. Frank Oz

    Frank Oz

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    Ok, emailed both addresses this time haha.
     
  47. Christian_Lonnholm

    Christian_Lonnholm

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    Great idea Frank! I'll do just that. I'll send you the first one!
     
  48. larvantholos

    larvantholos

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    I emailed the second one, it seems to not have bounced this time ;)
     
  49. Elmar Moelzer

    Elmar Moelzer

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    I think that this is a fine product and truly for a non- indie- game, this price is very justified, especially given the licensing conditions.
    Aidin has the right ask anything he wants for his product and while IMHO it is OK to ask for a lower price or an indie license, bashing and ridiculing the developer for wanting to make profit from their development is neither a professional behaviour, nor very nice.
    Behaviour like this can backfire, as it might discourage other developers from offering simillar products for Unity, greatly lowering the value of the package. This can not be what people here want to happen. What you would want to happen, is to encourage other developers to see the possibility to make a profit with such tools for Unity, so they will also enter the market and bring competition to it, that will then enable the forces of the market to drive prices down.

    My company also develops plugins for a different software package and our plugins also cost more than the base software package. It is however serving a very limited market with very harsh requirements (and is among the cheaper products in that particular market segment).
    I too have to face the lack of understanding for the pricing of our product quite often. Our situation is slightly different than Aidins, because our market is much smaller (in % of the base product).
    Still, I can sympasize with him and I feel like such behaviour as I have seen in this thread should not be encouraged.
     
  50. Tinus

    Tinus

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    Just wanted to chip in and express my interest in an indie version and the trial licencing scheme that Dreamora suggests. uLink seems to offer quite a bunch of features that I'm currently missing. :)