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Amazon refuses to take down illegal copy of my game!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by derkoi, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Hey, I was alerted to an illegal copy of one of my games on the Amazon marketplace. They're pretending they made it and are selling it.

    I contacted Amazon but no matter what I tell them they're refusing to take down the game.

    This is the reply I get:

    Does anyone else have experience with them? I had a similar issue on Google Play and they removed the game within 24hours.
     
  2. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    What the?...

    I would like to know also, how can someone prove to be the author of a game, in legal terms?

    Can anyone just resell your stuff like this?

    @OP Good to know at least Google Play solved the issue fast enough
     
  3. derkoi

    derkoi

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    I'm assuming since I have the source code etc that I could prove I'm the author but I'm surprised that I need to go that far.

    I get the impression they think it's some kind of distribution agreement turned sour. I can't even find any contact details for the seller 'Nom Nom Adventure' who also has cut the rope on their listings.
     
  4. Mauri

    Mauri

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  5. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    What exactly happened? Did they just rip and post your game, or are they your distributor posting against your wishes? Amazon seems to think that is the case based on their letter. If it is a straight up rip, contact them again and try to clarify that.
     
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  6. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    It's sickening the things people do these days just to try and make a few dollars (or whatever). It was bad enough when people were just pirating the games to play them. This is a whole new level taking them and basically pirating a game dev business.

    All I can think of is maybe be sure and ask to speak to a manager (the droids have limited abilities) and tell them you had the same scenario on the Play Store and Google already took care of it. That may provide some small push for them to do the same.

    This stuff is getting insane but is to be expected I suppose when the goal these days is to bring the entire world into game dev/make money with games.
     
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  7. derf

    derf

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    A quick search against some of those titles shows that Nom Nom Adventure is simply buying them and reselling them on Amazon. This is a clear violation of Software Pirating.

    They are charging .99 cents for Mech Warrior yet it is free on App Store.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
  8. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Thanks. I'll try that.

    Yeah they just ripped it. I've emailed Amazon several times stating my company is the only company authorised to distribute the game but they just send the same canned email back.
     
  9. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    DMCA can't be ignored or Amazon itself will be in trouble, so use that. You do not need to use a 3rd party service, you can download and send a template.
     
  10. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    What is the game? And what is the ripped one? Did you ever publish your game on a portal site?
     
  11. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Thank You for Choosing DMCA.com
    Your DMCA Takedown request has been filed.
    You will receive an email shortly notifying you of the status of the Takedown request.


    This is my game: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DDI.CarpFishingSimulator&hl=en_GB

    This is the copy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B015VYJF8W

    I've only ever posted it on Google Play and Apple App store
     
  12. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Really sorry this S*** happened to you.
     
    Martin_H, Dantus, kittik and 3 others like this.
  13. AcidArrow

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    For some reason this happens a lot with prominent games on tha Amazon App store.

    I remember seeing Prune on there (a couple of times actually), and it's not official.
     
  14. Asyranok

    Asyranok

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  15. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Thanks Hippo.

    Makes me wonder if Amazon actually are ok with it as a way to get games on to their app store that perhaps wouldn't be on there otherwise.

    Thanks, seems to be the same item number so i assume it's all tied to the same upload.
     
  16. derf

    derf

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    They are trying to sell Mech Conquest and that game is free with in game app purchases. All of the games on their list are by other developers, in some cases you can get the game for free yet they want .99 cents US.

    Probably think they can fly under the radar and collect whatever they can get.
     
  17. Asyranok

    Asyranok

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    I doubt that because the only reasonable outcome is litigation. The stand to make so little money for each non-mainstream game, yet each one could result in many thousands of dollars if someone tries to sue. I have a feeling the associate(s) responding to your posts are just incredibly lazy and/or apathetic. This is not what Amazon as a whole wants, but maybe something some of their employees could care less about.

    When you get this to the right person, something will be done, because they sure as heck do not want to be sued.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
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  18. AcidArrow

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    Maybe it's their reluctance to take "serious" action that makes them places that this happens a lot.

    The Windows Phone store is sort of the same. One seller on Windows Phone had our game, a bunch of King games, Limbo, and a whole bunch of other titles I don't recall right now. None his. We filed a DMCA report (and I'm guessing others did too, since the games that seller had kept slightly changing) and Microsoft took it down, but the seller is still active. Shouldn't he be banned? Maybe a 3 strikes system?
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  19. Asyranok

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    That seems like the least useful action to take. The user could create a new account, rinse, repeat. What they need to do (and may already do for all I know) is implement a seller rating system like ebay. These thieves can get their content removed, and a major rating downgrade for these actions. Then they will be selling with a low rating. They could still create a new account, but that would probably be better than outright banning.
     
  20. derf

    derf

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    The only problem here is anyone can send an email stating I am the Walrus Koo-Koo-Kah-Choo and want action taken. Without more than that; they will tend to ignore and send back those canned responses. You would really need to call them on the phone with some business info like company identification, fax numbers so you can fax them immediately with documents proving you are who you are and perhaps an official DMCA order.
     
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  21. AcidArrow

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    I don't know if it's because we are from Greece, but to open seller accounts in most stores, they usually ask us for a bunch of legal paperwork, ids etc etc. I don't see why they can't ban the actual legal entity/person itself and not just the account.

    (in all fairness I don't quite recall what Amazon asked for)
     
  22. Asyranok

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    Well, to be fair, even if Amazon requires things like that, a criminal will not often find that to be an insurmountable hurdle. They will just use fake identifications etc.

    Sure, that will make it difficult to the small set of criminals who only commit crimes when committing them is super-easy. I'm sure those exist, but it wouldn't stop this in any meaningful way.
     
  23. Dustin-Horne

    Dustin-Horne

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    The DMCA takedown is the way to go. Amazon cannot legally ignore it. The reason these work is that they provide protection for both sides. If someone filed a DMCA against you for something that actually really as yours and it got taken down, you could sue them for damages (as long as you can prove it's yours).
     
  24. AcidArrow

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    @Asyranok
    I believe you are wrong, but anyway :)
     
  25. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    Every time someone post a new game to US Google Play store: automated systems in China copy the apk, replace the signing and push it to the more than 200 chinese android app stores; because Google Play is blocked there...
    Then some take the apk from there and publish to even broader sites, in some cases amazon store.

    Long live Android..
     
  26. Asyranok

    Asyranok

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    You believe I am wrong in so much as it not being possible to steal someone's identity for these purposes, or provide invalid personal information? If you believe that is wrong, I can guarantee you that I am right.

    If you mean that I am wrong that someone having an account tied to personal information could be banned, and not find a way around it by using falsified or stolen information, well, that is certainly more debatable. I don't have evidence to show to you, but if I was worried enough about it, I'm sure I could scrape some evidence out of google searches. But either way; whether or not you agree is irrelevant (and whether I believe it is happening or not is also irrelevant), people can steal or falsify personal information in essentially every walk of life. It might not be happening on Amazon; idk.
     
  27. AcidArrow

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    I believe most of the duplicates we're seeing on Amazon and Windows store happen because it's so easy to happen and there are zero reprercussions.

    Having to go to the trouble of falsifying docs (ids) to post other people's games would already eliminate 99% (90? 80?) of the problem.

    This doesn't happen as much on the App Store and Google Play. They have stricter rules about these things.
     
  28. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Wow. They didn't even try to hide it or even change the name.

    Yea, it seems like Amazon is dropping the ball here. That sucks, I hope you can get things resolved, and without having to put too much effort in to it. Best of luck!
     
    AcidArrow likes this.
  29. Asyranok

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    Oh, I see what your point is. That is worth a try, for starters. When I said something to the effect of "Don't bother banning them", I was thinking of situations where very little personal information is tied to the account - sort of like in Unity's asset store. I wasn't considering situations where a significant amount of information is tied to the creation and upkeep of an account, such as credit card information, or possibly information as unique as a SSN. If that is the case, I agree that banning them based on that information is quite helpful. Like you said, that would eliminate a major portion of the issue.

    And, depending on the veracity and extent of that required information, the issue can be almost completely erased except in situations where someone has information on a user such as their SSN, address, etc (which is pretty hardcore criminal identity theft). Outside of those situations, users would have difficulty committing the crimes the OP is experiencing against them more than once.

    That being said, the issue could certainly still occur, which was what I was suggesting.
     
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  30. MurDocINC

    MurDocINC

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    Company name trademark connects you to your company. Game name trademark connects your company to your game. And to sue someone you need to register your copyright first which requires trademarks.
     
  31. goat

    goat

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    You guys should see some of the farces published in the Windows Store.

    I've noticed about half of my pittance of downloads on GooglePlay are from warez style sites but then I expected that. My Amazon downloads seem to be more legitimate though.

    One can't reasonably expect a App reviewer hired by Amazon, Google, or whoever to be aware of even the most popular games. Those sites need a legitimate shared industry registry of apps to check against.
     
  32. GhulamJewel

    GhulamJewel

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    Wow this is disgusting I hope you get this solved. Here I was thinking pirating is the worse..but stealing a game and uploading to another app store to make money off someone elses game is truly pathetic.
     
  33. Player7

    Player7

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    So the lesson here is to make sure you publish your game on Amazon and half a dozen Chinese webstores before someone else does it for you?
     
    Thorny2000 likes this.
  34. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    That's not how copyright works.
     
  35. derkoi

    derkoi

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    This, I think is exactly what Amazon wants, hence why they're not being very proactive in this matter.
     
  36. dogzerx2

    dogzerx2

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    Release it in Amazon first, for 100 dollars a copy.
     
  37. Aurore

    Aurore

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    Really sorry this has happened to you and I hope it's resolved soon, even though you've had to go all around the houses.
     
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  38. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Thanks Aurore :)
     
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  39. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    let it be known: Amazon is crap tell your friends!! I will! :D
     
  40. Ony

    Ony

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    My experience with the Amazon App Store was... not good. I released a game on there and it was up for a month or so, then I sold the rights to the game to another company. That company then wanted to put it up on the store under their own account instead of mine, so I told them I would just remove it from my account and that would be that. All well and good.

    I followed the procedure on Amazon to take down my copy of the game. you know, the one in my own account, that I should have control over. In the mean time, the new owners added the game under their own account and it showed up in the store. And then I waited for my listing to come down. And the new owners started asking me what the hold up was, and I wrote to Amazon four times to find out. Here's what they sent in reply, every time:

    "Thank you for contacting Technical Account Management at Amazon.com.

    We received your e-mail message relating to case xxxxxxxxxxxx and have added it your case. A team member will follow up with you as soon as possible."
    It took a full month of waiting and writing to them to get a game removed from my own store front. What a pain.

    So, if you're going to use Amazon for selling your games, be aware that once you upload it to their system, it's basically out of your control. That was my experience at least, and it's soured me towards putting anything else up on there since.
     
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  41. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    Please update with the entire ordeal when this issue has been resolved. I find this practice absolutely disgusting.
    As of right now both illegal copies are still up and running with positive review comments.
    On one of the pages there is a review notice those versions are illegal copies, but not on the other one.
    I'd review the thing 100 times with the same announcement.
    And Amazon's inaction is pretty pathetic also.
     
    Amon likes this.
  42. Amon

    Amon

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    I posted that review. Gutted for the OP more so because Amazon are taking their time in removing the game. If Nom Nom Adventures are transferring the proceeds to a paypal account within 2 weeks that money will be in their normal bank accounts and that will be that. They pretty much won't care if the rest of the money they have made is locked or blocked etc. as they have already profited by being a bunch of flem like creatures that ooze a stink because of the devils bad breath.
     
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  43. angrypenguin

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    As frustrating as it is... reality is that since these things are ripped and uploaded by automated tools they probably *are* responding to them as fast and as well as they can. They're legally obliged to deal with DMCA Takedown requests, so they're going to get attention first, and I doubt that they're trivial to deal with... so while I see where you're coming from, I also see where the human being on the other end of that support address is coming from.

    The up side is that you can take advantage of that yourself.
     
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  44. JoeStrout

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    Wow, this is just awful. Another reason not to write games for Android, I guess.

    I would think going after these Nom Nom Adventures sleazebags legally would be worth a try. You can certainly sue for any sales that went to them instead of you; you might be able to make a case for some other sort of damages, too. I also wonder if there are criminal charges that could be leveled.

    Of course if they are based in another country (as I suspect), all of that may be prohibitively troublesome to pursue. But it might be worth talking to a litigation lawyer anyway, just to see what they say.

    I'm not one to encourage frivolous lawsuits, but in this case, there's nothing frivolous about it. They are scam artists who have stolen your work to profit from it, plain and simple.
     
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  45. Dustin-Horne

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    The law itself currently requires "expeditious" response but has not been given a concrete definition.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  46. Kiwasi

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    You don't have to target just Nom Nom. If Amazon has received a DMCA and done nothing about it, then they are a legitimate target for litigation too.

    Of course litigation is a difficult avenue to go down. You won't gain much traction unless the numbers are pretty big.
     
  47. Devil_Inside

    Devil_Inside

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    The amazon link leads to 404. Did they finally take the game down?
     
  48. JoeStrout

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    Yeah, but (I think) the goal should not be to get Amazon to take this one particular infraction down; the goal should be to make these monkeys pay (and if possible, throw their sorry butts in jail). Taking the page down has essentially zero consequences for them; they'll just keep preying on others.
     
  49. Kiwasi

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    But if Amazon has to pay it will give them incentive to be more diligent next time around.

    I'm not saying these big content distributors are entirely to blame for the prevalence of this sort of theft. But not acting on it when it first comes to their attention certainly doesn't help matters. And less face it, Amazon was profiting from every illegal sale.
     
  50. GarBenjamin

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    It'd be a good thing but likely as soon as they are "put away" others will pop up to take their place. You'd have to change the root of the problem. Fix the culture itself. Which I see no obvious way of doing.

    Whenever and wherever there is money to be made (and especially when there is so much noise about "everyday folks" making massive amounts of money) you'll have a lot of people running in trying to find the easiest way to make that money. In this case the easiest way is to simply steal the hard work of others and sell it as their own. Doesn't really get easier & faster than that to run a games business.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2015
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