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  1. Location
    Canada, Eh!
    Posts
    45

    Linux Support :D

    I've got a great idea for a feature: Linux deployement support!

    Come on, I'm sick of people leaving the penguin guy behind.. Or worse yet, only developing for X86 Linux.

    I wouldn't know, because I haven't seen the Unity code, but I know that:
    a) Javascript is available on Linux. Well, duh. What's it not available on?
    b) Mono is made almost exclusively FOR Linux, which is what Unity is coded in.
    c) The AgeaX PhysX engine is being ported to Linux (by AgeaX).
    d) OpenGL is available for Linux, and most Mac ATi Cards do support some form of acceleration in Linux (I've tested: Rage 128, Radeon 7500, Radeon 9200).

    Please don't say there isn't a big enough market, because although it isn't a very big market, it means that there are less people developing for it. Maybe if more people developed for it, there would be a bigger market. Also, if there aren't many people developing for it (Especially Linux PPC) you will have almost the entire 3D game market (or rather, your customers will). What other 3D games are there for Linux? Quake? Doom? Unreal? Sure, those are all great, but watching pieces of flesh being ripped apart and thrown all over the screen doesn't appeal to the whole market. I mean, wouldn't it be great if a game like the original Nanosaur was available on Linux? Yeah, of course it would!


  2. Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    750
    Isn't Unity mainly written in C++ with the Mono layer for scripting purposes.

    Has the AgeaX PhysX engine already been ported? If not, I would think it would be wise for OTee wait until that time. Of course, maybe it is just a drop in change

    The main problem I see with Linux is testing (besides Linux users have a reputation for not liking to pay :P ). Not only do you have no telling what configuration, but how many different builds do you test against. From a support perspective it would be major challenge. Perhaps they could charge $$$ for any Linux support. Of course that would dilute the focus of Otee. Could Otee reasonably expect that the extra development and support costs would be covered adequately?

    Of all the Linux boxes, are not business oriented and would be good candidates for gaming. It would be interesting to see the numbers on Linux for the titles that you listed.

    I think I would rather see the resources go to other features, preferable the ones I want or to console support.

  3. Administrator
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    1,586
    Our publisher of gooball tried porting some earlier games to Linux. Sales were horrendous. Far below what he got on the mac or on windows (around 10% of mac, IIRC).

    And just because we can publish to Linux does not mean we would get a lot of linux users, as they would have to get a Mac and OS X.

    So yes, the market just isn't big enough. We don't have the resources to cure the miniscule of the Linux-buying games community... If the linux community suddenly starts buying up huge amounts of games, then there is a case for us. So far, sadly, that is not the case.

    A small correction: Unity is not made with Mono. we just use it for JavaScript. The core of Unity is written in C++. It would take us some months to get Unity-made games running within linux, and seeing the quality of the ATI X11 drivers, most likely they would run a lot worse than on many other platforms.

    So yeah, it's a sweet dream. Unfortunately, it is not really a compelling business case. I'd much rather spend 3-4 months of my life making Unity cooler than spending them porting the system to Linux.


  4. Posts
    4
    No Linux market? In the meantime there are more developers who prefer Linux as their development system than Windows according to an Evans Data study:

    http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/article.php/3645766

    Mainly because it is very ease to develop platform independent under Linux e.g. with the Qt libraries.


  5. Posts
    5,283
    Well, at some point in the future i also would like to see unity beeing able to export for linux but before this there are more important things to be done in my opinion. It also isn't that easy as saying linux means a lot of distributions. Have you ever wondered why even BlitzMax restricts itself to certain distributions like ubuntu?!


  6. Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    No Linux market? In the meantime there are more developers that prefer Linux as their development system than Windows according to an Evans Data study:

    http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/article.php/3645766

    Mainly because it is very ease to develop platform independent under Linux e.g. with the Qt libraries.
    I have honestly never met one of these imaginary developers who is in love with Linux.

    All the developers I've met or talked to are in love with either Visual Studio, or XCode. Game developers, especially, tend to love VS. (Except for those of us wise enough to skip the hard work and use Unity...)

  7. Unity Graphics Developer

    Location
    Unity Technologies, basement
    Posts
    3,974
    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    there are more developers that prefer Linux as their development system than Windows
    I don't see how the study would target game developers. Web (or other...) developers are quite different and have different demands than game developers. I've yet to see a game studio where developers use Linux.

    Mainly because it is very ease to develop platform independent under Linux e.g. with the Qt libraries.
    Again, Qt is not the most often used library in games. When game developers care about cross-platform, that usually means PC vs. Consoles; I don't see how developing a console game on Linux would be easier (and some devkits only run on windows).


  8. Location
    32.71 N, 117.15 W
    Posts
    5,419
    As much as I would love to see the Unity editor running under Linux (and players for Windows, OS X and Linux) I know it will never be. As Aras and Nick alluded, it's just not economically feasible, not enough economic return for the investment.

    If you really want to develop under Linux, then (pardon me for saying this) your best option IMHO is Blender. Blender now has Bullet Physics, GLSL shaders, and a very impressive 3D modeling/animation toolset (fluids, mesh sculpt, etc. etc.). Work is currently under way to integrate the Ogre3D graphics engine into Blender and when completed will make it a real contender. Like many open source projects, though, development tends to happen in "spurts" and some bugs tend to be ignored for years. Even so, I've done some very cool work with Blender.

    It's not Unity, but for the price it's hard to beat.


  9. Posts
    5,283
    Holy cow if we're discussing Linux than I'm really much more for an publishing option for linux than for an IDE. You know we're missing still the Vista IDE!

  10. Unity Product Evangelist
    Location
    San Francisco CA USA
    Posts
    6,186
    FWIW, the OP (FelixAlias) did ask for it as a publish target, not necessarily as an authoring platform. To that end it is "easier" to port the player as opposed to the authoring platform. But that still won't necessarily make it the best use of time and resources...
    Tom Higgins - Product Evangelist at Unity Technologies ApS
    unity3d.com | answers | blogs | feedback


  11. Posts
    2

    Unity on Linux

    I am a big fan of Unity, and I would very much like to see it run on Linux.

    We are working through the legalese to have some folks inside Novell at the Mono team assist in porting the runtime of Unity.

    Hopefully we will be able to get the legalese out of the way, get the port in place, and Otee will be able to ship the resulting binaries and allow developers to also issue Linux binaries.

    Miguel


  12. Posts
    5,283

    Re: Unity on Linux

    Although it's up since a pretty long time i still have a lot of traffic for gridwars2.

    Since now the percentage looks like this;

    100% for windows
    57% for linux (out of windows)
    30% for osx (out of windows)

    So there are almost twice as much people playing the game on linux as on OSX. Question is how big the percentage of user would be who also would pay for games on linux.

    One thing which might be misleading is the high percentage of linux and OSX compared to windows. In reality the numbers of the windows version are for sure much higher due to the fact that the win version has been spread by a lot of other links as well. So don't think that OSX makes out 1/3 of the windows pie as this for sure won't be the case!

  13. Unity Product Evangelist
    Location
    San Francisco CA USA
    Posts
    6,186
    Taumel: yet somehow you've managed to secure 187% of people playing your game at all, well done! :P Can you explain those percentages a bit? What do they represent? Sorry but I'm confused as they sum to a number greater than 100% so I'm not sure what they're supposed to indicate.
    Tom Higgins - Product Evangelist at Unity Technologies ApS
    unity3d.com | answers | blogs | feedback


  14. Posts
    5,283
    Nope the numbers are correct but maybe i didn't explain them good enough.

    If we say the windows chunk is 100% of the whole market then linux and OSX numbers refer to the windows market and not to the whole one. And the stats result on what has been downloaded from my site since march this year, so almost nine months.

  15. Unity Product Evangelist
    Location
    San Francisco CA USA
    Posts
    6,186
    Quote Originally Posted by taumel
    If we say the windows chunk is 100% of the whole market then linux and OSX numbers refer to the windows market and not to the whole one.
    To be sure I understand you then, for every 100 windows users that visit your site, you get 57 Linux users and only 30 Mac users, is that correct? Wouldn't that then really be numbers like this (and thus easier on my eyes, sorry):

    Windows: 53.5% (100/187)
    Linux: 30.5% (57/187)
    Mac: 16.0% (30/187)

    Sorry if I'm being daft here, but when you show percentages my mind wants to assume that each is supposed to be a slice of one whole. If the above is true then I'm quite surprised at those numbers all around (Windows seems low, Mac seems high and Linux seems very high) based on my experience. Interesting stuff...


    Edit: and you know I still don't think that I quite understand the numbers as even after posting this I feel like I'm off in my understanding. How about a nice clean set of percentages, what percent are on Win/Mac/Linux... :P
    Tom Higgins - Product Evangelist at Unity Technologies ApS
    unity3d.com | answers | blogs | feedback


  16. Location
    UK
    Posts
    244
    And gridwars isn't the best of indicators to show which operating systems people use to play games - it's not like you've been advertising gridwars to mac sites other than this one... And I guess that the more tech savvy people are, the more likely they are to have a linux installation - and I bet you've mentioned gridwars on blitz/director/whatever-you-made-it-in forums/mailing-lists. No offence or anything, as the game is enjoyable, just not the greatest of indicators.
    I have no money! And my website is http://www.benlovell.co.uk/ and email is: ben.j.lovell.spam@gmail.com (remove ".spam").


  17. Posts
    5,283
    There are 19 people sitting at the table and discussing which features should make their way into the next unity version.

    Now 10 of them, the windows users say: "Ohhohh we miss the windows IDE so badly you immediately have to make the port otherwise the world will stop turning." Sitting next to them the 6 linux users are trying to get noted and trying to object: "Don't you know, no one uses windows anymore. Linux is the future and it will be a glorious one! Everything is possible with Linux and it's free and free and ..." Now don't let us forget the rest of the guys the 3 left OSX users sitting there murmuring: "We don't need support for other operating systems. Pah! Can't you idiots just understand?! It's an OSX program!"

    I was just too lazy to cummulate the whole chunk in the calculator. Now if i had known what confusion this would cause i would have done it the other way...holy cow!

    What i wanted to say with these numbers is that there are a lot more linux users playing around than osx users. But as i said keep in mind the game is for free. I've no idea how the numbers would look like if gridwars2 would cost something.


  18. Posts
    5,283
    @socksy
    Obviously the game has also been shown on the Blitz site but hey a) BlitzMax is crossplatform, that's why there are three version available at all and b) the percentage of users who come from there is small, and even smaller the amount of linux users, they are less than little. Be asured there come more mac user from BlitzMax than Linux Users.

    Most of the traffic comes from google and other sites which link to my site and these links come from windows, mac, linux and general forums (overclockers,macuser,happypenguin,stumbleupon,..) and i've never promoted the game anywere beside of here and BlitzMax, just let if flew...

    And before you even accuse me of wanting to promote a linux version i'm more for console publishing if it would be the right one! :O)


  19. Location
    32.71 N, 117.15 W
    Posts
    5,419
    Quote Originally Posted by HiggyB
    Windows: 53.5% (100/187)
    Linux: 30.5% (57/187)
    Mac: 16.0% (30/187)
    Thanks for trying to clarify that, although those numbers still seem way out of whack with what our sites and the rest of the world are seeing.

    Last I checked, of the people that visit our sites: about 80% are running Windows, 13% OS X, and 7% Linux. That's more in keeping with the market share info I normally see floating around.


  20. Posts
    5,283
    Well, it's all clear that these numbers only have truth about this specific case but to be honest i was quite impressed about how many linux users there are around AND PLAYING!

    If i go after OSs for the same period and domain than i would get:

    100% windows
    41% linux (out of win)
    23% osx (out of win)

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