What game women prefer?

Do you know what, if someone made a game about Erin Brockovich *or game about any 'activist'*, I would not play it. What she did was great, but in my point of view it wasn't about her being a female, it was about the fact that she didn't have a formal law school education, or any legal education, and still was instrumental in constructing a case against the Pacific Gas and Electric Company. Process that involved a lot of going from door to door, and looking for offical papers.. I just don't see a way to make it game mechanically interesting for real, my imagination just ends up seeing words "boring", "game mechanically poor" and this crappy "targeted for women" stamp. If someone seriously tried to recommend or push me game about Brockovich and started to talk about self esteem things in a same sentence, most likely, if I would still be in relatively good mood I'd probably just leave, or if I'am annoyed/pissed off I would probably tell that person to shove it into place where sun doesn't shine.

 

frankly, that's the answers i had to expect.

i don't want to target a market that already exists, i'd create a new one.

well, that wasn't my point. how many shooters have you played where the main character is some sort of a male elite soldier? i suppose a lot more than the females you know, otherwise youre a gross exception.
There are already programs designed for women only. These games aren't played by men. it's a fact, not a cliche.
The problem of this topic is that it already makes a difference between tastes, so if there are any criteria, it's the overall message of the game.

@saeria: The erin brokovich part was an example, i didn't think about game mechanics but about the philosophy the game tries to get across. once again, think about your desires, make a game out of it. maybe someone else knows how to make an erin brokovich game interesting (it could be an adventure similar to frogwares' Sherlock Holmes games).

a game about an average schoolgirl could be boring but a game about an average schoolgirl that suddenly gets super powers isn't (by the way, that's why harry potter games are so successful regardless of their players' gender or their graphical/gameplay quality. people who don't make games themselves and don't play WoW everyway don't give a damn about it.).

 

Generally women are not allowed in Special Forces in real life, for obvious reasons. I would be repulsed by a game with a female elite (elite being special forces) solider as the player; however a female character like Gordon Freemen I'll be happy to play as. Perfect Dark was one of my favourite games (second only to the epic Ocarina of Time) of the time period. Joanna Dark is a special agent and to me that's perfectly normal so unlike the female special forces I'm not repulsed and have no problems with playing the game. In the end I'll probably still play a game with a female elite soldier if it had good game mechanics, but the unrealistic female solider would be in the back of my mind.

 

Your quotes are 100% wrong, i din't even edited my only message which by the way is :

 

woops, edited the quotes.

well that's what im trying to say, as long as games don't have to do with the real life/desires of women they won't attract them as much as they do for men. that's why desperate housewives is successful, and other shows aren't (apart from the fact that the show is funny and has some good actors).

 

There are a number of contributing factors to that assertion, only partially related to actual % of women responding to surveys as the primary buyer and/or player of FPS genre titles. Many of those titles start with one or more female main characters, however, due to realism issues and reviewer expectations, simply grafting a female model onto a male rigging isn't acceptable. As is often the case with many features, the added costs of doing female model rigging, animation and realistic gameplay are the most often quoted reasons for dropping female characters. That and the anecdotal theory that the women/girls that do play have been satisfied to play male characters up til now, so there's little loss.

That last sentence, plus many "common" attitudes amongst male game developers is ... interesting... in the face of the most recent trends in game buying (more important to game developers) and playing across gender populations. Frankly, I don't fit into, nor appreciate the adolescent male "elements" added on to many "main stream" games. Not to be harsh here, but ... (there's always a but to these kinds of statements )... the "hard core" gamers market is failing financially, and the proportion of the video game industry globally has never been "dominated" by those "hard core" games in the first place (feel free to google the most successful game franchises).

Oh, and the soap opera comment... those post-war melodramas have been in serious trouble from a ratings perspective for over 10 years, with every major US television station regularly announcing the termination of all soap operas from their line up, including ABC this year. Frankly, that type of program was never as popular as "main stream" wanted the world to believe, falls right in line with "make it pink and girls will like it", and is going away despite all attempts to perpetuate it.

on the general topic:

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, women are not mysterious mythical creatures, nor, as the young lady who has responded, pointed out... any more "unified" than men. Yes, there is unfortunately a great deal of consistency amongst 16-25 year old males, at least amongst western populations/culture. IF, one was to try and specifically include females into a game design, I would recommend googling industry trends in buying, player feedback (that linkedin group sounded promising), and... ask some women? (do try and remember 50 year old women have about as much in common with 16 year old girls as men and boys of similar age)

Now... as with all things, game developers, male or female, ironically rarely fit into any consistent "average consumer" category. So, no matter what your gender, it's good policy to check the actual industry statistics, as you and I are usually not representative of "normal" buyers. Most "professional" game developers don't play video games, and even more rarely actual play games that they make (so the first group to stop playing the latest greatest whatever is usually the design/development team that made it ). Nothing like 4 months of play testing to make anyone wonder if the d*mned thing is even fun anymore

Cheers,

Galen

 

My two pence.

Both my wife and daughter LOVE Unreal Tournament 3, deathmatches, in small rooms, with a small number of people that they know.

They both love the FLak cannon and close up "bamming" someone. My wife refuses to participate in any other game, this has been the case since UT2k3, the first video game she ever really got into. Prior to that she played a little Hitman, but didn't get right into it.

Upon discovering UT2k3 she introduced her friends to it. I happened to have a home LAN at the time, actually a render farm, so many computers, and would often come home to a house full of 30ish woman squealing like teenagers at each other across Unreal death matches.

They never seemed to care what player/character they were, they simply loved the weapons and the immediacy of the game in small levels with their friends. They smack talked and derided each other like nothing you've ever seen before. It was enormously entertaining to watch.

They were never interested in teamplay or other more "constructive" play modes. Just death matches. With lots of death.

They introduced their children and husbands to the game. I ended up introducing many of these families/friends to websites about video cards they could upgrade their systems with, JUST FOR THIS GAME and showing them how to insist on better ping times from their ISP's for online play.

My house became a popular hang out until we moved overseas, mostly for the women, the guys, none of them FPS gamers, became a bit sheepish about getting smashed by their wives/girlfriends, who, while not great, got good enough to destroy those of slightly lesser skills/knowledge. Particularly my wife. She got good enough that it required genuine focus to beat her in a 1v1.

 

So many opinions, I like this real world community game.


Anyway, so I want to target all men/women even before game making, but AFAIK, gamer's ratio in specific gender, women is smaller than men.
But I don't know how about that ratio in age 10~29 women. Maybe similar.

So then must I consider woman's taste?

Some pdf (googling this - Do Girls Prefer Games Designed by Girls? ) annoying me about my new game design. It is PVP game. But pdf says women don't like competitive game. So then must I make 2 vs 2 coop-pvp or turn over whole game concept and start from new?

 

That really depends on genre and platform, women dominate certain genres, game styles and platforms (casual online being most often quoted)

Hmm, that sounds suspicious, keep looking, there's some more recent stuff on the topic. Try the gamesindustry.biz, they've got some more coverage of the gender gap in design. I'd also setup some focus groups and present some ideas. As for considering woman's taste... in my experience that's just easy, don't do things that are offensive / turn them off from your game (ok, easy in that if you ask 10 random women, they'll tell you what you did or didn't do that was offensive). I've never found any concrete proof of any "woman's taste" or universal truths (oh, except a nearly universally accepted attitudes about men ... which they remember much more clearly, and in finer detail than any man I"ve ever known, so I simply can't argue with their logic ).

Cheers,

Galen

 

In my ears claiming that sounds little outdated or atleast quite limited opinion, and that document is pretty old. Being competitive is personality issue, some women are more competitive than others or less competitive and some men are more competitive than others or less competitive. I wouldn't abandon the design and start totally new just because of what that document claims. Why not make a prototype or small demo based on design and do little testing, and see how different groups of people respond to that? And pleasing everyone is pretty much mission impossible, there is always going to be someone who finds something to complain about even thought that reason why they are complaining might be totally ridiculous.

 

I guess it's my turn to stand on the soap box. I'm a female gamer, and I heartily resent "pink marketing" and people trying to figure out what I'd like based on their conceptions of what 'female interests' are.

Some of my favorite games include the Armored Core series, Valkyrie Profile (ass-kicking female protagonist for the win), Okami, Final Fantasy Tactics, The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Dungeons and Dragons.

If I was to break that down further, I'd say my favorite gameplay mechanics are ones that are complicated and have a lot of customization. I also like an element of randomization (RE: Dungeons and Dragons, Magic: the Gathering), as I feel like it evens out the playing field. When I played WoW and EVE Online, I was a dedicated PVP'er.

Thematically, I've always been drawn to games with a badass female protagonist (IE, Lightning, Fang, Lenneth, Diablo II) because it's awesome to have a character that kicks ass that I can actually relate to somewhat. The genre itself I'm not too picky about- I've played and enjoyed fantasy, sci-fi, and more reality-based titles. I'd hazard a guess that I'm most strongly interested in fantasy and sci-fi settings because they're usually not based on real history and therefore it's not as ingrained that woman always has to be second fiddle. (RE: Mass Effect.)

The idea that 'girls don't like competitive games' is interesting to me. If I was to guess the reason behind this, I'd say it's because most competitive games are dominated by men and are commonly viewed as a 'boys only' club. I'll admit that sometimes I refrain going to the weekly Friday Night Magic (card game tournament) because my local shop is usually filled exclusively with smelly nerd boys.

Toning down the usual hypersexuality of women in games makes them more appealing to me. I like a sexy woman as much as the next person, but that appeal typically comes at the loss of respectability. (IE, Mia from the Phoenix Wright series. What kind of a lawyer walks around with her tits hanging out?) I dunno. Perhaps a better approach to making and selling games might be concentrating on universal appeal, rather than trying to cater to what guys or girls specifically like.

 

I agree with some comments and i can to remark :"women are tenfold times more competitive than men", specially if it against another woman. Even the more timid and shy girl is competitive.

Anyways, for girl, one important "selling point" is colors, for example pastel pallet.

 

Having a good color pallet is important for graphics, having a good pallet makes it easier to create cohesive look. Using for example that pastel pallet as a 'selling point'.. most of those 'targeted for women/girls' are pink/pastel stuff and they are pretty much failing, so using colors as selling point may not be the most effective way to sell. *This is little unimportant, but as long as I can remember I have disliked pastel colors.*

Desperate Housewives was mentioned earlier, and actually there is a game about that series... but it's not good. I have never played or even seen it in stores, but I have read couple reviews and seen few videos. First impression about it was 'Sims rip-off with Desperate Housewives textures', based on videos almost only think you're ctually doing is talk, talk and more talking, but hey you can talk almost everyone except gay guy to screw you, too easy to notice product placement/advertising, and few minigames. On plus side, based on reviews story is somewhat loyal to tv-series. That's pretty much it, simply only riding on a award winning tv-show doesn't make a good game or game that actually sells well.

 

Just to throw a few very personal observations into the mix..

I play 2 MMORPG's regularly.. EQ2 and WOW. Am a member of a large guild on each. In both guilds, the majority of players are women.. and no before you say men acting as women, women.. we have held enough Guild meets in reality to know which ones are trying to swap.

Interestingly, on both guilds, most players have alts and in the case of the women, most of these are on dedicated PvP servers.. the men tend to be much more care-bearish about this.

Probably n ot typical, but I don't think there is any such thing as typical.. in most cases, if the game is good and entertaining, then you will get players. What type those players are is mildly irrelevant I would have thought.

Regards

Graham

 

Most women I know play mind games... Oh, you mean on the PC... hmmm might have to think about that

 

The Greek God

You play as a bar maid who has to serve genuine customers in the style of diner dash, while avoiding the attentions of the greek god. He wears a gold medallion over his hairy chest and thinks you are in love with him*. The objective is to get everyone drunk before the slime-o-meter reaches 100%. You can spend talent points on things like "rebuke" which is a put down and stalls his slime offensive.

*actually, he's convinced, however he's wrong.

 

Just because companies have been trying to sell the public on the idea that girls should have pink stuff and boys should have blue stuff doesn't mean all women subscribe to that kind of thinking automatically. When someone tries to sell me something (other than a tasteful clothing item) in that color, I feel like they're trying to make the product seem trivial and 'cute', because they think that's what appeals to me. Guess again, marketing wizards. Generally I associate a pastel pallet with babies or other uninteresting stuff.

 

The election of a color depend much in the mood, for example blue when you are *ahem* blue (or in calm) and so on. It is not marketing but psychology, and while does not work 100% of the time, but it still acceptable.

For example :
http://www.girlsgogames.com/
Yes is pink, but mostly pastel color, and they are running a whole site based in this concept.

 

If we are talking girls and not women its a whole other discussion. Girls and boys are much more conformed groups. So sure targeting young girls the pink princess expression is a good way top go.

 

First off, the pink used on that site isn't pastel- it's way too saturated. Also, what is the mood they're trying to push with that color scheme, and who are they targeting it at? If you answered A) "cute/girly" and B) "young girls" you'd be right, and probably wondering what the hell that has to do with games that women like.

Also, I'm going to say this right now before any further madness happens: ditch the psuedo-psychology and consult a bonafide graphic designer.

 

I think most ppl here are getting confused with pink. Pink is a viable and great colour for girls, not women. Women like what looks good, same as anyone else. I think the general gender confusion is that a woman would appreciate a baby girl game, and while its easy for (let me be honest here) myself to appreciate the cute bright colours of a kids game, its hardly something I want to play, and I'm probably right thinking women don't either.

Why men think women are aliens I do not know. But if men do think women are aliens then they are primitive. It's the year 2011 last time I checked.

 

My wife plays Spyro, Ratchet and Clank, and other similar type games on the PS3 and XBOX. On the PC she likes those little farming type games, as well as cards, BustAMove type games and many more. One of my daughters plays Call of Duty and Black Ops on line, and card and puzzle games on the PC. Another daughter is SIMS crazy. I think it is narrow minded to simply categorize what women prefer to play as some will play anything that interests them whether that is planting crops, creating a virtual life, or blasting zombies.