Of course our goal is to get Substance integrated in every 3d software and engine to make it a standard in the industry, but those kind of deals take a lot of time to actually happen.
Autodesk and Unity are the first big steps in that direction but be assured that we are working hard towards integrating substance natively in all the major 3d apps and engines.
Thanks Jerc, glad to hear that - hopefully integration into a more affordable host will come to fruition soon.
I've already placed my vote on what package I feel is a good first choice.
"With THIS!, you could be like GOD!" - Kozer, Blake's 7
Windows 7 (64-bit): 24Gigs / Hex Core 4.0GHz (OC) / Dual NVidia GTX 460 1Gig
WinVista SP1 (32-bit) 4G / Dual Core / NVidia 86xx 256M (Dell XPS 1530 Laptop)
Thanks for the various inputs on Substances, great informations
Has Substance Designer 2 removed the limitation that you can't sell the substances? (that being said: I've turned the page upside down twice, back then and when 2.x was released and never found a single line that legally bound anyone to that mentioned limitation in any legal form as there is no such thing mentioned on the page)Regarding the prices: I'm not particularly interested in buying Substances. If I want something, I can create it. And if there's something that someone else has already done, I'm happy to pay the price because most of the time, it'll save me more time than what the money would be worth (otherwise, I wouldn't even consider buying it).
I would like to set my terrain's heightmap at runtime from the current state of a Substance texture. Can't seem to find a way to do it though since there is no Texture2D and no GetPixels(). Is there a way to do this that anyone can think of? Or if it's simply not possible, that would be informative to hear too. thanks!
Just started using Bitmap2Material and the sample substance but found some tradeoffs.
Bitmap2Material does a nice job of upscaling a 512x512 texture to 1024x1024 with spec/bump/height. It looks much better than the original material. The 'cost' of this is approximately 0.2 seconds on a fast CPU.
I tried two of the sample substances (concrete_049, Stones_01). For concrete_049 the goal was to just use the diffuse channel as a detail map, so I figured I could get a 1024x1024 detail map for free. And since it is a pure substance, I generated 2 different ones for some variety.
It turned out very pretty:
However, generating the concrete_049 substance on a fast CPU took 2.23 seconds. And since I made 2, it went upto 4.5 seconds. The stones substance took 0.83 seconds.
So for all the procedural textures it added an extra ~7 seconds to the load time. But many players don't have top end CPUs so we have seen 30 seconds to just under 2 minutes.
I ended up 'baking' the concrete_049 diffuse map by expanding its preview in unity, doing a printscreen and saving the file, not the nicest way to bake a texture but couldn't find any other way. And just used the single variation instead of 2.
It might be slow to generate pure substances since they always generate the Diffuse/Spec/Norm/Bump/Disp/Height maps even if you only need the diffuse, not positive. I have the trial for Substance Designer Lite, but you can't import .sbsar files to change them, and the sample ones don't come with the .sbs sources.
So the Bitmap2Material filter is awesome, and I want to like the substances, but its hard when downloading the texture is faster than generating it.
Hmm, I could have sworn there was an export option in the last version for the generated textures, but I can't find it now, maybe they took it out. Should be able to write a script to save out the data I suppose, sucks that you'd have to do that though.
I'll give you some answers to your issues.
- About the generation time being slow: the generation time depends on the substance and its complexity. Some generate faster than others, we recommend using the Free Substance Player to profile the generation and see exactly which substance is faster to generate.
As a general rule, all substances are extremely fast to render in 512 while 1k textures can get a lot slower to generate depending on the Substance complexity.
We are currently working on heavy optimizations to allow fast generation of high resolution substances.
- You are right about the substance generating all the outputs even when you only need one of them, we are aware of this and it is actually already fixed for the future 3.5 release.
- You can import sbsar files in Designer lite by creating a "New Layer from Substance" but you will need Substance Designer Full if you want to get and modify the sample substances sources (the .sbs files are shipped with Designer Full only, including the Trial version).
- You can export the Substance Outputs as bitmaps through the Substance material inspector in Unity. Click on the small gear icon on the top right corner of the inspector, there is a "Export Bitmaps" option.
Last edited by Jerc; 09-30-2011 at 11:54 PM.
I am working on procedurally generated content and can see some use in substances, as fe. a lot less manual texturing work and used texture memory, although I couldn't find out how to properly prepare the models for use with substances. I will try to explain on an example how the object is supposed to be textured, and if anyone could give a hint on how it could be done with a substance (preferably allegorithmic staff I would first of all be very grateful, and second will instantly buy the substance designer as all our models are done and are about to be textured, and this could be a potential time saver. (By the way allegorithmic video tutorials do not mention many many things and are not really tutorials (the TV video that says lets create a substance and then it jumps to where it is almost finished with no real information about how the TV model was setup in 3d modeling app so that it could be textured like that in substance designer)
Thanks a lot for any info. Here's the example:
Set up your model the same way you'd do it if you were using just a normal texture. Then you can use a layer graph to create a substance that matches the layout of the normal texture.
I'd be happy to make a video tutorial showing you how if you'd post a texture that you'd like to replicate as a substance.
You can easily create that kind of texture in Substance Designer by creating 2 layers from 2 different substances or bitmaps, then drawing a mask to blend the two textures, using a shadow fx on one of them and adding a bit of procedural dirt using the shadow as a mask.
The cracks could be hand painted through the vector graphics painter or created with one of the noises shipped with Designer.
We know we lack tutorials and we are working hard to get you more of them very soon !
EDIT: niosop was faster
Last edited by Jerc; 10-03-2011 at 09:42 AM.
Hi guys, thanks for the answers, I will try to discuss this with the person who will do the texturing.
niosop, the problem is the texture is not done yet, only the models, and if it was done, it would be a large atlas of different options. Something we are trying to avoid here
Basically, It is just 4 main polygon areas with tilable textures with some fancy stuff here and there. The point is just as I said to have a lot of controllable differentiation.
Is this possible with the mentioned masks, is this controllable with individual objects while working with the same one material that uses only one substance? Is it possible to create one substance material, that we will be able to tweak for each object that is using it individually?
Once again, thanks.
Still trying to figure this out.
Yeah, it should be totally doable with the layer graph. Basically you're creating a different substance definition for each layer, then using vector masks to make each one show through in the desired region. You can assign different parameters to each of the different layer substance definitions so you can tweak each section individually. Along the top of the substance inspector panel in Unity there is a strip that will allow you to make copies of the substance and tweak each one to look differently, then assign these different copies to different objects.
One thing to keep in mind is that generating a multilayer texture like this could take a couple seconds depending on the complexity of the substance. And a different texture set will be generated for each variation, so depending on how many you have, there will be some load time impact.
Also, when defining your layer graph, make sure to only specify the outputs that you are going to use. If you don't need normal and height maps, remove them when doing the initial layer graph creation step so that they aren't generated. This should save some processing time.
Thanks niosop, I will give it a test, sit with my colleague and see what results we can get. I'll post back
I'm evaluating Substance Designer 2 trial to see how it fits my pipeline. So far I think I hit a limitation?
I have around 12 large texture maps in my Substance, I'm using those for various mixes. But as I can see, substance is not cooking. When RAM memory hits 1200+ limit, I just get 1kb sbsar file as output.
On my another PC, it even do not start publishing at all - so I guess, I have to stick to lesser texture sizes or there are some other options?
What are your specs ? I already ran into the 1kb sbsar issue a few times, even on very light textures, but restarting Designer and cooking again works on my side when it happens.
8gb ram, 512 mb video card (maybe that is critical?), 3.5ghz processor. I'll try examining it more, usually reducing texture size/compression to jpg helps.
> cooking again works on my side
That helped me too, when I have texture limit "so-so" nearly. After reloading application, especially if I _NOT_ load the graph instantly (version 1 wirks this way), I can cook, as I guess ram memory space is not taken by this time.
I think this needs to be patched up somehow, probably it is a bug after all?
Do you have a 64bits OS ? If so, it's probably a bug as 8 GB of ram is more than enough to handle any kind of substance graph.
Yes, I am on windows 7 64 bit.
I wonder, memory usage never goes more then 1300, around near that point application drops working (CPU resets to 0 resting), and generates 1kb file. So maybe a bug. Well, I'll postpone my testing for a while and will see, if next release is going to fix that.
I forwarded your issue to out tools programmers. Could you provide me by PM with one of the substance that causes the issue ?