forums for legal owners of Unity Pro only?

I'd like to see forums where by you can only post if you are a legit user of unity Pro.

Kind of like putting in your activation serial to be able to access the forum and shows you are a legal owner of the product.

Good Idea? Bad Idea?

 

HiggyB mentioned that the idea has been batted around. The forum could be viewed by anyone. But posts would be just from paying customer. (Including those that paid for Indie)

Since there's already a category for pretty much everything, I'm not sure what the forum would be full of. Maybe things that just focus on the Pro features? Like Profiler questions? But what about paying Indie customers?

I think we're all here so we could help each other out. Pro or non-Pro.

I'm not against the idea of a Pro forum. I'm just not sure what its purpose would be.

I'd much rather see a Pro section of the website where the Unity guys give paying customers little goodies before everyone else gets them. Maybe some free shaders and such.

 

Nothing says FU like a pro only section after the indie fiasco. :roll:

 

Indie fiasco?



Oh, the drama.

 

This sounds to me to be fair. Also, my proposal (in the wish list forum) here: http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=35896

 

Kinda agree, there would then be a whole bunch of spam posts on the indie forums about "WTF is with the pro only". I can see the flame wars now. And there would be barely any help for all those newbs. It would be better if indie users that help a lot and give good things can also post.

 

I understand the reluctance of segregating the forums between "paid" and "free" users, except for these two arguments:

a. Why should paying customers only receive the same level of support as non-paying customers?

b. Since UT's income depends solely on the sales of Pro, then Pro customers are in essence now paying for the free support that free customers receive.

As a paying customer, I feel we should get a higher level of support (ie. more UT employee assistance, access to more tools) than those who haven't paid a cent for the product.

 

I only own Indie personally, but it seems entirely reasonable to have a higher level of support for people who own Pro. Certainly, when 3.0 is released and if it has free and pro versions, it would be wholly reasonable to have pro-only sections of the forums which the support staff review more carefully.

 

That last part of the idea is lame. I paid for Indie, but you can't pay for it anymore. Why should I get better support than someone who would be willing and able to pay the old price for Indie? Should that person just make a donation to UT for support rights?

Anyway, I'm for the idea of better support for more money. I think that the way that should work is something like, if you pay more money, you get to create threads in a certain forum, and it's the job of higher-level UT employees to spend some time looking over those forums often, responding as much and helpfully as possible. One of the things that really attracted me to Unity in the first place was the awesome way that the big names at UT were always around here. Doesn't happen anymore, and it makes me sad. :cry:

However, I voted No! on this thread, because Unity iPhone Basic is still an expensive product to me, and I own a license for it, and the wording of this thread title doesn't suggest to me the idea that I proposed. (I think anyone should be able to post in the forum, but only big spenders could start threads.)

 

What extra tools are you talking about? The ones that come with Pro vs. Free like

Render to texture
Full Screen post
Real time shadows
Profiler
External version control (My personal favorite)
C++/Objective C plugins support
Script access to asset pipeline
No splash screen (A close personal second)
etc....

As for support, this is a forum, knowledge from the community and the company. I would prefer to have everyone's comments, even some of the dumber members of the community (Not saying that there are any dumb members, but hey.) And, maybe I haven't looked hard enough, but from my lurking I haven't been bombarded with threads complaining about UT not answering questions in a timely manner.

I am not trying to be negative, but past UT building my games for me, I feel that this is a pretty good support system.

 

@coreyb - I understand what you're saying, and I can see both sides of this argument, but the fact of the matter is that the -only- type of support available to Unity developers is this forum, and so my point is that if I've paid $1,500 for a product, shouldn't I get something more (in the area of support) than someone who hasn't paid anything? After all, doesn't UT owe their paying customers some level of support?

I think you haven't looked hard enough. Actually, UT staff very rarely answer questions. I'd venture to guess that 80% or more of the threads on the forums have been answered by users, and probably paying users at that. This wasn't the case 2 or 3 years ago, where just about every thread had some input from someone at UT.

What I'm saying is that the user base has grown exponentially and is likely to continue to do so. UT has limited resources that they can use to assist customers, so they have to prioritize who gets what support. I feel that as a paying customer I should get a higher level of that support than someone who hasn't paid. As for indies, perhaps offer the same level of support for $X per year, and those who have paid $200 for Indy already, grandfather them into that support for the first year.

I'm just making a suggestion, not a demand. I agree that users helping users is a great way for a community to grow. The blenderartists.org forum that supports Blender is a great example IMHO. But that's open source and everyone that participates in that forum is at the same level when it comes to what the software cost them. But for a commercial product, I feel it should be different.

 

Alternatively, perhaps the 'pro' user is actually someone who's had more than 100 (or whatever) posts

 

While this seems good for customers, I think it would undermine Unity Tech's purpose for making Unity free.

 

Not really...there's support@unity3d.com, plus submitting bug reports sometimes ends up in a dialog with UT employees.

--Eric

 

Although I've heard that if you email support@unity3d.com with a question about something like particle effects or rigidbody properties (or something along those lines), you are told to use the forum to get your question answered.

 

Well, that seems reasonable...there's probably no sense using resources to answer the simpler questions, which can usually be answered by reading the docs anyway.

--Eric

 

I've voted for no.

Unity's strength is the single community actually. Half the things that exist wouldn't exist with a Pro user only board.

Also there is actually a thing that makes this completely impossible and thats the Pro Trial, during which time the trialing parties would have to have access to the board too ...

What though could make sense is a "Pro User" wiki / resource area, but that would require that pro users get an account etc, doubt the effort really works out as the Unify Community wiki works well too.

 

WTF?

I mean, I paid for Unity, when there was something to pay for, but now thay UT makes it free you want to cut me off from forums? That clearly goes against UT's "every customer is the same" policy (dunno if that has changed).

I am all for a forum section where people can discuss the features of pro (like how to make shadows and such) but I dont really see a point in restricting usage of it. Since why would indie users care for a such forum?

What about those who paid for Indie?

 

This forum is far to noisy and crowdy to be really effective. It might help implementing a better Forumsoftware and better servers, because in the current incarnation almost everything sucks:

* Search only each 20secs - WTF
* haveing type AND etc. that's NOT state of the art
* the board is so SLOOOOOOWWWW !!!
* far to less user configurable

etc ...
i could live with the current status - if only unity would implement an up-to-date board software
(see cgsociety for example....)

 

How about requiring forum users to have completed at least two tutorials, and be familiar with the docs? There could be a test upon signup, which would ask some basic questions that all unity users would be required to know before they can post anything, for at least some of the categories (excluding things like gossip and collaboration). You'd still be able to read everything without this, of course. That should cut down significantly on the RTFM questions, of which there seem to be a lot lately. (I used to read 100% of the forum, now it's more like 5%.)

--Eric

 

Right, UT has indicated basically that there are two types of support free and paid. The forums are free support and if you want direct support via email with UT you'd have to pay for it. The problem is that some questions just can't be answered by other users and the docs, in some areas, just aren't thorough enough. For example, look at the docs for a "configurable joint".

 

They discontinued their paid support ticket system quite a while ago. If you want paid support, there's unity-studios.com, which is a different (but related) company. As far as I know, UT has no paid support.

--Eric

 

Ditto here on the number of posts I read now a days. I agree with your idea in concept, perhaps some sort of "noob qualification certificate" of sorts, but how in the world could something like this be managed and by whom?

I think we're really talking about two issues:

1. The exponential rise in forum "noise" caused by "hooligans" just picking fights and "noobs" asking questions that have been answered many, many times.

2. The fair division of UT's resources, whether they owe an additional responsibility to customers who have paid for the product versus those who have not (my point).

As an aside, I find it interesting that the two people who have helped more fellow users than anyone else (Eric and Dreamora) are split on this issue.

 

I've (thankfully) never needed to pay for support so I wasn't sure if this was the case or not. Thanks for clearing this up.

 

That's always the question, isn't it? I just come up with ideas, someone else can worry about the implementation. Still, I'd envision it as an automated system, so once the forum software dude implemented it, it wouldn't take any more effort. I was only half-serious anyway.

Well, not really...the original question is about Pro-only forums, which I'd be likewise be inclined to vote against, although I haven't actually voted....

--Eric

 

Ha! Neither have I for the same reason. I feel that people who paid for Indy are also owed some level of obligatory support as well.

 

Create a newbie forum, and new users can ONLY Post in this forum until they post a certain amount of times... like 10 or something.

That could reduce the 'noise' in some of the other forums (stop people from posting spam as well).

As for folks asking the same questions repeatedly, I think Unity needs a FAQ at the top of each forum, with an actual list of frequently asked questions for that topic and brief answers to each.

 

...actually, they've got an FAQ posted at the top of each forum already.

 

They are FAQs only in name. Most don't list frequently asked questions, and most don't give the answers... they point to a thread where the answer MIGHT be.

 

Touche. The FAQ post is a relatively new thing to the forums so they are far from complete. And how many of us even check the FAQ's before posting a question? UT has also started that "Unity answers" thingy, which is supposed to end up being something more like what you're talking about (although I question it's viability, as IMO we don't need info to be anymore fragmented than it already is, but that's a subject for another day).

I don't fault UT for not trying to fill the gap. They've done a number of things to try and make things better. And there are a number of things that have yet to be done that would help organize and deliver existing information more effectively. But the most effective and dynamic means of getting questions answered, IMO, has always been and will likely always be, this forum.

 

I think if UT just regularly assimilate forum issues into actual documentation, these issues would not arise.
Alternatively, being able to sort forum issues based on "experience level" would make these forums less "noisy/boring" for the old school.
In my view It's more about that, than free vs paid.

 

I think there should be a seperate forum for Pro Users.
There software is different enough and it gives them the feel of working in a more proffesional enviroment in their own forums.

A cool idea would be having two forum pages in one forum. (Complicate yes?)
Its like you have this forum, and a Pro forum. They are seperate forums on same page, same log-in info. But if you click newest posts on indie forum, then you won't get info on newest posts on pro forum.
Less Noise, still together.
Have one below the other.

 

There have been a few "trial" users who have shared some of what they have done with the rest of us.

Even then, a free user might be wanting to test out Unity to see if he can create the type of gameplay features he wants and if he can make a go of it then upgrade to Unity Pro.

So I wouldn't exclude the free users.

I own Pro btw.

 

Spacefrog has the right idea. This would be much better.

 

Joomla

 

There are no gameplay related features present in pro only.
Networking is available to both, physics is available to both, terrain is available to both.

Pro separates from the regular unity through features related to "professional size content amounts" (-> asset bundles, streamed loading, async loading) as well as professional games and their optimization (headless client, profiler, render textures, ...)

Thats why there is so little reason to separate them, most things apply to both sides (HiggyB once put it quite easily: Unity (Indie) has 90% of Unity Pro without costing 90% of it)



I think that people with the desire to feel like "elites" are kind of wrong about what a community is and potentially with Unity in general, as Unity is not about elitism but about beeing productive and professional and elitism is a sign of arrogance and noobness, not of professionalism.


I agree with spacefrog, a more feature rich board would solve some of the problems.

 

I second tonyd's suggestion of creating a "Newcomers to Unity" section.

Having a section like that would mean that those who dont want to see "noob" questions, dont have to and they can avoid it. It also opens it up to easy and fast access to newcomers for frequently and commonly asked newbie questions where they wont feel stupid or be ridiculed for their questions or "brain farts".

I'd also suggest getting "Newbie forum ambassadors" who dont mind dealing with with newbies, and the same repeated questions and make them feel welcomed here.

Then when these newcomers get the hang of Unity and when they feel like they got the grasp of Unity they will naturally move their questions out of the section, and in turn will feel good about helping out newcomers the way they were helped out.



I voted no to the Pro only section, but I'd vote yes to a Pro features section.

The #1 reason, for those considering to buy Pro, should see the ins and outs of the features and work arounds to see what its all about. It would also localize Pro feature questions into one spot for easy and quick access. That way the Pro features questions wont get lost in the crowd of non-Pro features questions.

 

I like your idea QFS.

Agreed. I had voted "no". I was just trying to say that I've seen a lot of new people come on that can do some pretty good things with Unity in just 30 days. I had stated that I owned Pro because I'm a Pro user who wants to include everyone as this forum topic wants to exclude non-Pro users.

We can always just put "Pro feature" in front of the post subject, too, rather than seperate forums.

 

Well, I don't mind dealing with newbies, as long as they're not asking us to write their game for them!

 

I've always said that one of the best things with this product is the community. I am honestly ashamed from even seeing this idea.

It's one thing to pay for other features but then to be denied participating in what makes this great? I participate and offer help a lot on this forum because I enjoy it but also because I feel I'm being helpful. And now you're saying you should put up a fence and keep me out? How many others on here are a great asset to the community but only have Basic?

There should be better organization, filtering, and searching with these forums. Maybe a tag system to tag threads and a way to subscribe to threads and watch threads you've commented on, etc. But keeping people out? That really makes me sad it's even been mentioned muss less has 50% vote.

Luckily, I think UT is smarter than that.

 

No : this forum would be too much vague.

The only direction would be "hey, look, we are Pro users ! Others aren't !"

Useless, imho.

 

NO, I don't see pro owners as gos, "Every customer is the same."
--done.

 

Agreed.

 

The way I'm reading this and how I think others are reading it, I see it as a option to make a seperate forum, and I think some people are seeing it as only pros get the forum.
The second one is just a dumb idea and I hope no one is for that

 

I think the solution is simpler than indie vs pro. It should be if you have been at the forum for longer than X time ( 6 months or more ), OR you have pro, you get to post in this new forum.




Remember it isn't about the money, its about the influx of newbies. Some people have complicated problems that require more attention, and some people just need a link to the Docs that they didn't know we're there. The problem now is when looking at the thread list they are all mixed together.

 

I voted for 'no'. And I would also have voted for 'no' if I had a Pro License.

That's kinda lame. I really hate all the whining about it being free but this really is not what I think Unity (as a company) is about.

Faster email support ... well - okay. That's something I can live with (it's not that I'd notice anyways if I hadn't experienced it for myself). The forum separation: NO!! It's not like I opted to have Unity for free now. Giving Pro Users a forum for themselves would feel like an affirmation for all the whining about Unity being a two-class product for some people.

That sounds pretty reasonable, though. A problem about that is that Pro Users might not have the time to accumulate 100 posts to access the needed forum. But it sounds like an idea to build upon, IMO
Maybe also something like a Karma system. As long as all that doesn't start to complicate and clutter up the forums ....
It's a thin line.

 

Would people be satisfied with a little badge on their avatar saying 'Pro User' or something like that? You could give them to big community contributors with Indie licenses, too.

It might seem superficial, but it would both let paid license holders feel particularly valued, possibly lend more weight to their postings/advice, and without balkanizing the community (It's UNITY after all! Mr. HiggyB, tear down this wall! )

 

If beginner questions filling up the forums are a problem, you could create a beginner questions forum to help filter out the questions from the rest of the board. I also agree that the search limit is set way too high.

I believe that fracturing the community will only be negative in the long run. Unity Indie going free definitely increased Unity's exposure (though, dragging in many undesirable people as well), but those who end up using Indie productively are likely up to Pro in the future. If Indie users find that it is hard to find support for legitimate questions, they may just leave to hunt for other engines. While I understand that the Unity3D forums is not the only place to find support, it is the central hub of knowledge.

I'll admit that I have not licensed Pro. I was looking at Indie back before it went free, and am willing to go Pro when I have the money. While I have yet to have a major problem so far, if I ever have problems finding support, I would just give up on Unity for the next project and move to the next thing.

 

maybe they should have a section for pro only users,but they shouldnt make every thing pro only.

 

Look, as i see it, the forum separation is rather strange. Reason: Pro users have paid for the SOFTWARE (technology and possibilities the product can used for) ONLY. If you find that not enough as pro user (and require more for the buck), than maybe, you should reconsider the pricing of the PRO vs the free edition (meaning PRO being too steap compared to free). Nowhere on the features list, was a mention of advanced support, that the other license did not have. So don't come complain for an seperate "We feel more competent/elite" Pro only tea time channel. it's utter nonsense: :x
Those complains would to be expected by MAC type of usergroups, but not a Developers group, with multi levels and most of all thight social community around it. Or should i conclude that the social element that made these products so great well known (and the forums therefore) is gone?! :cry:

Anyway:
Forums are archives of knowlegde, community and feedback. Those shouldn't be limited, in any way. That's a form of discriminating people on several levels. e.g. :
1) discussing potentials, 2) seeing what endusers struggle with (in relation to possible purchage of the PRO)
2) Sharing insights (brainstorms)
3) Community building (why would a PRO user be more knowledgeable than a Free user? It's unity's choise, to make it free.. was back then the indie user less competent/knowledgeable vs pro?, NO! it's just a money thing, nothing more)
4) Knowlegde should be free and open.

and i can think of more, but just to give a headstart, i posted these 4 points.

My2cents..and end of rant