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Do you use Blender?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Grimwolf, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. Grimwolf

    Grimwolf

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    I'll start by saying that this is not a "Is Blender better than X" thread, since that wouldn't be very productive.
    I've just been leaning toward it personally. I don't have to worry about studios not accepting it since I only intend to do Indie/Freelance work, so I'm free to consider only its true merits.
    So, I was just hoping to have a civil discussion about who here uses it and why, and what its strengths and weaknesses are.
    From having used it and many other modeling programs, it has its merits and its flaws like any other program.
    I personally love the prolific hot-keying which is letting me model extremely fast compared to what I've found in others, and of course the price.

    I'm interested in how prolific it is within the Indie/Unity scene, and maybe where I might find hard limitations with it in my work, assuming there are any.
    There does seem to be the strong opinion that it is not a great option for "commercial" or high-grade work, but I don't know if that's just because you can't use it in a studio setting.
    For example, I've found that the thing cleans house with simple low-poly models, but I don't know how rough it might be with very high-poly or animated models. I haven't gotten into the animating yet at all, so I can't say how solid it is there. Videos I've seen of it look good though.

    Also, please avoid any unproductive general statements like "Blender is awesome/terrible". It'd be helpful to instead hear which specific features are good/bad and why.
     
  2. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    <stands and clears throat...>
    Hello. My name is Scott... and I am Blender user.

    I have a problem. I can't stop using Blender. I have tried, I have Maya and it is our standard tool. I am supposed to use Maya. The problem is I know Blender inside and out, and truthfully, I really enjoy using it. Every time I need work in 3d I am usually under a deadline. I monkey with it for about 5 minutes, say screw and switch to Blender. I then just export my work as an obj and import into Maya and deliver/export from that. It is my secret shame. I make games at the largest entertainment company in the world, currently building a game on one of the greatest franchises of all time, yet I secretly use Blender to create assets for it. Please don't tell anyone.

    <sits down>
     
  3. goat

    goat

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    Did you make that Donald Duck Alarm Clock for iPod touch/iPhones? It's nice!
     
  4. HeadClot88

    HeadClot88

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    I use blender currently making a very awesome series weapons that will be sold on the asset store :)

    Pics soon :)
     
  5. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Heh... no. My studio deals with more... um... space games. But my dream project is to make a Muppet Fighting game, I'm just having trouble getting it approved. :D
     
  6. goat

    goat

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    If you think the Muppets don't fight you've never seen the Muppet Show.
     
  7. prophet

    prophet

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    That would be AWESOME!!!

    I like Blender for the price and the resources available. I am still learning though. Personally if I could find a decent, simpler modeller I would probably use that cause no tool will improve my lack of art skills lol.
     
  8. BrainMelter

    BrainMelter

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    All the cool kids are using Maya. Are you a cool kid?
     
  9. shaderop

    shaderop

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  10. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Apparently not in the world of 3d modeling, I am dirty ignorant heathen in their eyes. My previous art director still mocks me for using it.
     
  11. BrainMelter

    BrainMelter

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    lol :)
     
  12. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Totally, that is what inspired the idea. I did a prototype last year, complete with the little rods on the arms. Though it only had two attacks, flail and slap.
    I figure, probably another year or so, and they'll let me do a full pitch/demo just get me to shut up about it up.
     
  13. FlyingRobot

    FlyingRobot

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    I created that thread. Thanks to the posters who helped me with various answers.

    I'm still discovering Blender. I'm using XSI and Modo presently and planning to switch over the Blender for my next project. I'll give you some highlights compared to other software, especially indie modeling software like Modo and MayaLT. From what I discovered so far. These are my personal observations. Not trying to start app war. Just using Modo/MayaLT for comparison.

    Blender has a very good workflow overall. Of course you are going to miss features of other software, like I miss replicators of Modo and Operator stack of XSI. But you will also be rewarded with new tools you won't find in XSI or Modo. Still testing it to find bottlenecks and deal breakers (hasn't found anything yet).

    UI and Viewport.
    UI is logical and doesn't have too high learning curve. Blender 2.70 is very stable (stabler than Modo). Good viewport, but MayaLT has better viewport. But it's better than Modo, as Modo can't display alpha transparency in viewport effectively. Imagine modeling in Modo viewport without that.

    Modeling
    I like the modeling tools and workflow. I'll stand it 2nd best to XSI. You can't beat XSI's non linear modeling with any other software. Better than Modo or MayaLT.

    Sculpting
    Sculpting is at par Modo, but it'd be unfair to compare with Zbrush. No software, Maya, XSI not even Mudbox can compare to Zbrush's Sculpting experience. You can use GoB to use Blender and Zbrush at tandem.

    UV
    UV tools are good and fast. at par Modo/MayaLT. With couple of very handy sweet surprises.

    Texture Painting
    I absolutely love it's texture painting, it's not problematic like Modo. Much better. You wont find a better integrated texture painting and modeling software anywhere.

    Texturing
    Texturing is wonderful and node based. Better than Modo or MayaLT even. Found it similar to XSI's render tree.

    Shaders
    MayaLT comes with shaderFx, which you can use to build realtime shaders. It's fun to setup shaders in MayaLT but, you won't be able to use them right away in Unity. May be you can make them and recreate the nodes in Unity. But I'm not sure you can effectively translate what you create in MayaLT. If not, the whole Shader Fx seems to be an eyewash. What will you do with the fancy shaders of MayaLT if you can't port them to Unity? But, anyway, looks better in MayaLT presentation.

    Baking
    Baking is right now not resulting good results, Modo/MayaLT does better as Blender Renderer is not good (no GI), but baking based on Cycles has just released. Trying that now. Of course you can use Xnormal for Normal map/AO map baking. But for Lightmaps with GI you will need this new build.

    Animation
    I'm yet to test the animation tools, but the export to unity from rigify based rigs are smoother than XSI or Modo. Modo is horrible in animation. Modo pitched 701 based upon it's animation tools but they are still under developed and can't be compared to Blender. Regarding animation IMO Blender stands 2nd to Maya (not Maya LT), if you put XSI out of the picture. It's rigging tools are fully featured. Not crippled like MayaLT.

    Rendering
    Rendering is good with Cycles. Much easier to get good scenes than MR. I'd keep Modo ahead here, I love Modo Renderer. But I'm yet to test Cycles thoroughly. Because of the better management of shaders Blender feels more flexible than Modo. Also, if you want, you can use VRay with Blender. This also opens up the possibility of using VRay for your baking purposes. You can use a range of render engines with Blender. Which you can't do in MayaLT.

    I'm yet to test the particles, FX tools and Compositor. Heard that it's comparable to Nuke.

    From what I've seen so far, in an nutshell, Blender is a very productive software (an understatement? :D)
     
  14. jc_lvngstn

    jc_lvngstn

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    I'm slowly coming around, after using it for a while. Blender is great for the price. They are improving the UI, even though I still feel overall that it can be very counter-intuitive in some ways. But honestly...almost everything has its quirks.

    There are some things that it is missing (the ability to adjust normals), and being free...you get what you get, and don't throw a fit :)

    Overall...I still wish there were a dedicated tool to game development assets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  15. Grimwolf

    Grimwolf

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    I read that one, but it degraded pretty heavily into just a bunch of baseless subjective opinions and "Blender is better/worse than X" statements, as well as a lot of arguments based on that very fact.

    @FlyingRobot:
    I'm not heavily experienced with Maya. They took away something critical to animation with LT? What was it? Because that would definitely make it a less attractive alternative to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  16. FlyingRobot

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    It's not that you can't do any animation with MayaLT. But it's crippled in strange ways. You need to work around with MEL scripts, but it'd be very difficult to implement essential rigging tools like set driven keys.

    MayaLT comes with HumanIK rig, it's a good rig. But, it's not for every purposes. This rig is mostly suitable for mocap workflow. But, MayaLT doesn't have Animation layers. So you can't correct mocap animations in it. For me, I don't like full body IK rigs like HumanIK, the normal rigs are better. But in MayaLT you can't make a rig from scratch or use any Maya rigs. So you are basically stuck with HumanIK. Need to rig a vehicle, or an animal or something, you will get into problem. Also, for Trax NLA is missing, so you can't preview the transitions of your animations.

    These limitations and feature removals are absolutely crazy. Absolutely decided on board meetings it seems.
     
  17. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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    Maya is standard and modo is what the cool kids use,at least on my radar that's how it seems... Blender is horrid imo.
     
  18. shaderop

    shaderop

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    Those are the exact nuggets of wisdom the OP was seeking when he posted the following:
     
  19. Venged

    Venged

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    I moved to Blender after sticker shock from Maya and 3Ds max. Blender has been very good to me. The interface, Hot Keys, and workflow in it is wonderful. There are few areas like applying textures to models that could use better tool-tips or documentation but once you learn it it works like a charm.
     
  20. djweinbaum

    djweinbaum

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    As a professional 3d artist who has spent years using max and Maya fulltime at various game studios throughout my career, I prefer blender over either. I really don't feel limitations in any of these 3d software's, but certain things in blender are really well thought out. Max has an annoying Uv modifier you have to add and collapse for any unwrapping. If you like to unwrap as you model (which is how every environment artist I've worked with does it) then it gets cumbersome. Maya is better for unwrapping but slow and cumbersome for modelling. Things like mirroring, instancing, combining, separating and cutting are just really clunky. Blender is the best of both worlds for modelling and texturing. I'm not experienced in animation. Blender has a bad reputation from its early versions, but these days I feel blender gives Autodesk a run for its money, and is perfectly suitable to production work.
     
  21. XGundam05

    XGundam05

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    Hotkeys. The best thing since sliced bread.

    I come from a CAD and Drafting background, and learned AutoCAD with one hand on the keyboard and one on the mouse. Hotkeys make things go so very, very quickly.

    Granted, I only ever do low poly stuff, I don't have a good grasp on sculpting at all >.>
     
  22. gregorsamsa

    gregorsamsa

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    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  23. Grimwolf

    Grimwolf

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    ...Isn't that a movie project? I don't think anyone here cares about making movies with Blender.
    If anything, that makes me feel like my donations would be going to support things that have no relevance to my use of the product.
    It's kinda like donating money to Unity so they can work on using it to create a fast food chain, or something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  24. mzprox

    mzprox

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    It's not just a movie, but to improve Blender and show what it is capable of. I won't make a list now about planned improvements, but many of those are useful for the gamemaking pipeline too.
     
  25. Ferazel

    Ferazel

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    I'm an engineer, and I work on a Mac. Often I need to create some basic temporary assets for "programmer art". Even though Blender works on my computer I hate the user interface. It is the most completely flummoxing UIs that I've ever used. I'm sure it's powerful and because it's free I'm sure a lot of people use it. However, I decided to spend a little bit of money (very little) and buy Cheetah 3D. I highly recommend it. The UI actually doesn't require throwing out everything I know about computing to use it. The delete key actually deletes selected polygons instead of X! Also it's powerful enough to create temporary assets until you can get some assets purchased. Cheetah paired with Pixelmator is money well spent for generating basic assets on a Mac.
     
  26. Grimwolf

    Grimwolf

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    Just for my curiosity, would you mind giving an example of something they're doing for the project that helps with game development? I'm hoping you don't just mean pre-rendered cut-scenes or something like that.

    Ferazel; I don't know about Mac, but on Windows both X and Delete will delete a vertex. X is actually better though because you don't have to move your hand all the way across the keyboard to reach it, hence why they did it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  27. pete1061

    pete1061

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    The interface, hot keys and workflow are exactly why I DON'T like blender.
    The interface doesn't seem very intuitive to me. And hotkeys, I don't use hotkeys, I never have, for anything That's not how my brain works, not to mention excessive hotkey use aggravates my carpal.
    And the workflow just isn't what I'm used to.

    I cut my 3D teeth on 3D studio. I got started when it was just plain "3D studio" a dos program. And then transitioned to MAX when that came out. It's just the workflow I'm used to. While I agree that Blender is a powerful program with tons of capability. It hard to transition to a different application once you have learned how to do things in another.
     
  28. MaxieQ

    MaxieQ

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    Honestly, and I don't mean this as an attack on you, but if people can use WASD in games - why can't they use G E R X in Blender? The only thing unusual with Blender's UI is that you select with the right mouse button.

    I find that with one hand on the keyboard, and another on the mouse, I model blazingly fast. I can concentrate entirely on the shape one hundred per cent of the time rather than move vertex + right click for menu which make me focus on UI for a bit + then look back at the model + select another vertex + right click for menu again.

    And if that's too hard, you can set Blender to use Maya's control system in preferences.
     
  29. kburkhart84

    kburkhart84

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    I use Blender exclusively, and though it wasn't the point of the post, it does indeed work very well with Unity. I don't have any issues with the interface either, though considering I didn't come from other software it wasn't difficult to learn for me.
     
  30. Teo

    Teo

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    Using Blender because:

    - is free
    - is doing anything I need for game dev (sure Max, Maya, Modo are "more" advanced in some way, but for game development, you probable will never use some of their advanced features)
    - instant startup and shutdown, small, easy to update, cross platform
     
  31. dbryson

    dbryson

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    Unity does indeed work very well with Blender and it is great that UT seems to make sure it does and I really appreciate that. Blender is a very capable modeling and rendering platform, especially with the new Cycles renderer. I don't really understand the hate for the UI, although I've never learned the Maya or Max UI's, so maybe I would hate it as well if I had. Although, I did have some problems with the 2.49 version, the 2.5+ versions (and the new 2.70) are much improved and quite easy to work with.

    But we are comparing a free program against programs that cost $4000 (or 3675 or whatever). If I was working on a Mac, I would definitely look at Cheetah. But Blender is a very attractive and capable option. I think that most of the posts by people putting down Blender in this thread and other threads like this, and recommending Max or Maya are done by people who have pirated Max or Maya (and probably pirated Unity Pro) and are not considering the costs if you don't pirate and actually pay for the software.
     
  32. MurDocINC

    MurDocINC

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    Blender doesn't have Maya's "marking menus" which are a godsend. I don't think many people who tried Maya knew about them cause most tutorials use the UI(beats me why).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W-kXWrQL8s
    The key being: Shift+Right Click gives you quick access to all the tools for the selected component, totally eliminates need for UI(full screen viewport) and remember tons of shortcuts.
     
  33. FlyingRobot

    FlyingRobot

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    C'mon, it's a pie menu. Nothing out of this world. Modo has it, Blender of course has it.

    http://blenderartists.org/forum/sho...nus-(2-66)-Update-01-28-13&highlight=pie+menu
     
  34. shaderop

    shaderop

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    Those projects allow Blender to be tested in real-world production settings and for its features to be developed based on actual artists' needs. Here's blog from the last open movie project, Caminades, which lists all the improvements that were added to Blender during that project:

    http://www.caminandes.com/development/improving-blender/

    And that was a very small project compared to its predecessors.

    Your analogy assumes that is zero overlap between 3D tools used for games and 3D tools for movies. I don't know about you, but I use the same knife tool regardless of whether the model is intended for games or for movies, and an animation graph is an animation graph regardless of whether I'm animating a walk cycle for an NPC or a lines of dialog for an animated movie lead. There's a lot of overlap. And a better Blender is a better Blender for all artists using it regardless of specializing.
     
  35. niosop2

    niosop2

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    The biggest weakness Blender has AFAIC is lack of a good FBX importer that will bring in animations as well. With some models you can convert to DAE and import and they come in ok, others don't.

    The workflow is much better for me than Max or Maya (haven't tried Modo). I totally agree with MaxieQ, one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard for hotkeys keeps the mouse and my mind on my current task/object/face/edge/vert/etc instead of having to find the icon/menu item I want or hunt for the right gizmo handle (I usually turn off the gizmo first thing to get it out of the way actually).

    So if you plan on having to make modifications to animated FBX files, you're going to have a bad time. If you plan on doing stuff with static meshes, or creating animated models in Blender in the first place, then it's WELL worth it getting used to the blender UI. It's fast, efficient and powerful. And you can't beat the price.
     
  36. FlyingRobot

    FlyingRobot

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    Already pledged for Gooseberry! . For selfish reason though. They are offering all the training and assets for $50 or so. It's a steal!
     
  37. FlyingRobot

    FlyingRobot

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    FBX pipeline sucks in most of the other DCCs too. For example Modo has a horrible fbx pipeline, they are working on improving it. XSI on the other hand can't import FBX if you create the FBX with XSI itself. Only can import FBX made by other software.

    Only software that is fluent with FBX is MotionBuilder. It should be, because its the native file format of MB. XSI, Maya and Max imports FBX, but to edit the animation is a different story.
     
  38. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    I use Blender from lot of years mainly for rigging and animation and some modeling.
    Skecthup to prototype sometimes , Silo 2 for intuitive traditionnal modeling.
    Blender is free, ever evolving and FBX export is pretty good, this is a great and adn free complete solution.
     
  39. Grimwolf

    Grimwolf

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    I don't know if anyone else here uses Digital Tutors. They don't currently have any Blender tutorials, but I found this link; http://support.digitaltutors.com/en...gest=57df9cf844fdd1cee1a71a3f687b6511b095023f
    If you have an account and just "Like" the post, it'll recommend to them that they start making tutorials for Blender.
    The only other major site I know of with Blender tutorials is CGCookie, but the quality level is not nearly as high. It's 80% just "I made this model, and here's how I did it".
     
  40. MurDocINC

    MurDocINC

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  41. Teo

    Teo

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    I don't really care about menus, Blender tools are super nice also, and most of peoples who DO stuff in blender on the daily basis know all shortcuts and do not use almost any menus, just because is faster. So this "menu" argument is just "esthetically".
     
  42. SeanHoward3D

    SeanHoward3D

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    Iv been animating with blender for 4 Years, and personally Its all I had starting out at the young age."Its the artist... not the tools." - is the best quote to live by when working in FX. You shouldn't even have to use blenders intimidating menu because of its amazing hotkey configeration straight out the box. The only areas that I see it lacking in is its usefulness. Usually programs such as Maya and 3DSMax cater to a specific job/work. IE: Maya for Movies and Animation IE 3DS Max for modelers ,IE Z brush for sculpting. The problem is that Blender is a jack of MANY MANY trades but is a master of none. And that's the beauty of Blender. It's a stepping stone into finding your true passion in the field. I'll always love blender and it should forever be the game engine, sculpting tool,modeling tool, animator,and texture, and compositer that it is.
     
  43. FlyingRobot

    FlyingRobot

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    Actually that goes very well with indies.
     
  44. Tiles

    Tiles

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    No it is not. Not with 300+ hotkeys and hotkey combinations where you need both hands and a foot too. And a menu is also not only made by buttons. There are sliders, there are edit boxes, there are display elements, etc. . This issue is called usability.

    Always scary how so called game developers underestimate the importance of the UI. Try to sell a game with a Blender style UI, and then let's talk again about menu and esthetical.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  45. Teo

    Teo

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    At what UI are you refering? Development tool one? Game UI?

    I can say the same about every development tool. Why do you mix stuff? Dev tools with released game? I don't get it. Adobe Photoshop do not have a great UI, but you can do great things with it, like with many many other tools.

    Blender UI is pretty solid, if you don't like the style, is just a personal thing nothing more.
     
  46. techmage

    techmage

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    Blender is nice. It's modeling toolset isn't as good as Modo. It's user experience isn't as refined or simple as C4D. But I would take Blender over Maya or 3DS Max.

    Thing though blender updates fast, and is improving fast. 2 years ago I opened blender clicked around and thought, cool, but now way. Couple weeks ago I installed the latest clicked around and thought, cool, I'll keep a close eye. At the rate things are going, I could see myself going blender in a few years.
     
  47. Tiles

    Tiles

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    No it is not. It is not a style question. It's a perfect example of what you should better avoid when you design a UI. It has this much flaws that you can write a little book of it. And not long ago a well known user did exactly this. Andrew Price was the name. He told all weak spots of the UI. And it ended in a what is what in UI design. There was rarely a UI issue left that didn't end in a example in Blender.

    The Blender UI is definitely more programmers art than well thought UI design. It is inconsistent and unbelievable space wasting. It is slow, confusing, and cumbersome to use. When you don't see this then we don't need to discuss about UI at all. The you're most probably also just a programmer who prefers to make programmers art instead of UI design. Ooh, look, here's space left, so let's put the new element there. Oh, wait, this time i feel for radio buttons instead normal buttons. Ah, don't mind about standards. We make our own standards ...

    This doesn't mean that you cannot get your work done in Blender. But you get it done slower, with more effort, with a steeper learning curve. Feature is not everything.

    You didn't undestand the point. In Game design UI is even more important than with tools. One wrong placed button can scare the users away. One wrong adjusted input element can lead to a fail of your game. So every game developer should know about the importance of a good UI. When UI is this unimportant for you then your games will suffer.

    While this may not be this important for tools, it has also here a big effect. Slow and cumbersome workflow costs time. And time is money. And even when it's not about money, i prefer the tool where i can do the job with one click instead of a click rallye.
     
  48. BrainMelter

    BrainMelter

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    If programmers can figure out how to use it, the UI can't be that bad, can it? Though I'm not saying it can't be improved ...

    As for wasting space, I don't really see your argument. Blender does a pretty good job of letting you take screen space away from your UI, and give it to your art. On top of that, Blender gives you strong keyboard support, which lets you work with less UI. Perhaps Blender's button placement and sizing isn't optimal, but it doesn't seem to cause that many problems.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  49. goat

    goat

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    I'm getting used to the tabs but they've already improved it. It's much easier to go back and forth between different type tasks now (mainly back forth between modeling, UV, and texture painting). I still want improvements in texture painting although the UV part is nice.
     
  50. Akira_san

    Akira_san

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    Im using blender since the 2.3x versions. And im used to the shortcuts its much faster workflow, but yeah 2.6-7x need more work on the ui. Still, they will get there!