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View Poll Results: Which real martial art would you love to master ?

Voters
437. You may not vote on this poll
  • Muay Thai

    71 16.25%
  • Ninjutsu

    87 19.91%
  • Taekwondo

    44 10.07%
  • Tai Chi Chuan / Qi Gong Jin

    28 6.41%
  • Jeet Kun Do

    39 8.92%
  • Pencak Silat

    11 2.52%
  • Boxing

    30 6.86%
  • Shaolin Kung Fu

    99 22.65%
  • I don't like martial arts / fighting games

    28 6.41%
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  1. Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by febulous View Post
    Quick coding question.

    I am doing a 3D fighter game for a university project. And I am having some issues with the characters flipping sides. In other words, when player 1 and player swap sides.

    So, whats not working is that they flip correcting, and if they do, there is still the possibility that a proctile ends up going off in some odd direction.

    Any help or tips on how you did it?
    There are so many different types of parameters which could produce this, I'm not even sure I could give a proper help :/
    But ... this looks like your projectile is parented into something that has the wrong direction when you're flipping sides.

    Anyway, don't hesitate to Private Message me for anything not related to Kinetic Damage

  2. Super Moderator
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    Personally I would like to see the hit buttons arranged 2x2 instead of 1x4, since 2x2 is very similar to what I'm used to on joypads or arcade. 1x4 layout means you could end up doing a little kick instead of a sweep once things get frenetic. Just a personal opinion. Perhaps an option for either?
    Currently working with Sony on our new
    PS4 and Vita game in Unity!

    This post is not representative of Simian Squared Ltd


  3. Location
    Paris
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    3,730
    Quote Originally Posted by hippocoder View Post
    Personally I would like to see the hit buttons arranged 2x2 instead of 1x4, since 2x2 is very similar to what I'm used to on joypads or arcade. 1x4 layout means you could end up doing a little kick instead of a sweep once things get frenetic. Just a personal opinion. Perhaps an option for either?
    Wish granted 3 weeks ago
    (no video shows it for now, but it's done in a diamond shape, as square would have hidden too much the fighters)
    You're right, the linear alignement was making it too difficult to reach the further left button.


  4. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Hey there,

    I thought it could be nice to expose the way characters strikes are animated in Kinetic Damage

    (Forgive me if the following is not perfectly written, as English is not my mother tongue.)
    Please let me attempt to transmit something I learned during my 11 years of Martial Arts practicing, and which helped me a lot into creating all Kinetic Damage animations :

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    The 3 steps of a Strike

    In any real life strike, may it be from a human, a beast, or whatever, there are always 3 steps :

    1) Arm
    2) Strike
    3) Recover

    And in any fighting game, the way these steps are represented is definitely important in how the player will "feel" his fighter, therefore how much he will enjoy it.

    If a strike feels bland, or powerless, the player will feel powerless, even if it has over nine thousand damage.

    So beyond the correct adjustment of these 3 steps, there are also 3 other very important parameters, which are not that easy to catch when one didn't practice a real life martial art.

    How muscles, limbs and motion are working together

    These are :

    1) Limb Balance
    2) Muscle Tension on impact
    3) Motion Logic

    Limb Balance is how your limbs are weaving between each other.
    ex : while giving a left kick forward, your torso will have to weigh backwards to counter balance the striking leg's kinetic force.

    Muscle Tension is how each muscle is acting and reacting at the exact moment of an impact. Put it broadly, in a strike, there is always a force and a counter force. A force which is the direction of the strike, and a counter force which is its opposite force delivered through the whole body.

    This very point can become quite complex to figure with some long, impressive moves. But it can easily be calculated by distributing the reverse force of the impact tipping point through the whole body.


    ex : a fierce front kick will distribute its impact force through :
    1) the leg
    2) which will make the hips rotate backwards
    3) which will make the torso follow and weighs backwards too
    4) which will cause the arms to counter the created weight unbalance by pushing backwards
    5) Additionally, we can guess that this unbalance counter is a "reflex", so the torso will search for the nearest tip point to throw backwards : the elbows. Which means retracted forearms.
    6) As torso + arms does not represent a sufficient weigh against a fierce forward thrown leg, the ground leg will impulsively try to put the final weigh balance in order not to fall. So it will be highly tensed, trying to go the total opposite way of the unbalancing force. That's it, opposite to the striking leg. Result will be a straightened, backwards reaching leg.

    At last, Motion Logic is how your joints are interacting between each other, and with the force they receive from gravity. It's different from Limb Balance, as it's not entirely driven by the fighter's will. It could be defined by a mix between limb Inertia, and muscle force.
    The more powerful the strike is, the more Motion Logic will be driven by inertia, muscle tension and limb balance.
    For example, this is why it "feels" not right to see a very fast, but yet very aerial and complicated kick.
    You have to think about how inertia will affect each moment of a strike, and therefore how Muscles and Limbs will try to counter balance this inertia.

    ex : After a heavily forward-thrusted roundhouse kick, you just can't animate the fighter directly towards its resting pose. There is a high inertia effecting the whole body after the 360 turn.
    So you'll have to put a recovery pose, slightly placed at the position where the body would have landed if it had jumped instead of kicking.
    Then animate the fighter from this pose to its resting one.

    Conclusion

    Whew ! Doesn't that sound really complicated ? In fact not really, as we all have this data inside our body and our brain, within what is called reflexes.
    So if you're having a hard time to figure those calculations, just perfom the move (or what could be close to it) in real life again and again, and try to analyze what you feel with your muscles and your limbs at key moments.

    But honestly, the best way to learn this is just to take some Martial Arts courses
    After you learns a few basics (I recommend TaeKwonDo, is heavily reliant on these balance/counter-force concepts), you won't have to burn your brain anymore, as everything will come naturally from what your body learnt.

    Try this for instance :

    1) Stand still, and throw a right punch to an imaginary face in front of you.
    Notice how your left arm will naturally try to fold itself. This is the counter-force I was talking about.

    2) Now do the same, but while throwing your right punch in front of you, throw a strong left elbow shot directed at behind.
    Repeat this 4 or 5 times, stronger and stronger. Can you feel how much powerful your right punch becomes ?
    That's it. Counter-force.

    Illustration :

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    (pic text here :

    In a lot of Martial Arts, it is taught that a strike must be “armed” to deliver power. Just like a gun.



    Generally, the upper limbs are the inverse pose of the lower limbs during the striking part of a move. The reason is to create a counter force running through the whole body, delivered at the tip of the striking limb.

    Not only is this more impressive visually, but physically far more effective.



    The Motion Logic is how limbs are moving together logically, adding even more power.



    I’m no teacher, but I would strongly encourage any fighting game animator to run at least 3 monthes of any Martial Arts course to fully understand these principles,

    as practicing definitely gives a better feeling than just visuals, theories and videos.

    Some facts are just unexplainable with words unfortunately
    )


    I hope it helped some !
    Last edited by n0mad; 12-15-2011 at 08:17 AM.


  5. Posts
    134
    Just noticed the Facebook page says "2nd Half 2012"

    Delay again?

    Hope development is still going smoothly. Whatever the case, game looks great and I'm looking forward to it!


  6. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Hello MABManZ

    Yes, I'm sorry ... It's a mistake, I meant FIRST half
    Anyway, It seems like every fighting game this year has been delayed :/ (Skull Girlz got the same treatment I saw)
    That's why I didn't want to make the game too much public or too much known until release, so that interested people would not be deceived
    (I didn't reveal 50% of the fight mechanics yet for that purpose)

    But I want to ensure that I deliver the best possible experience, with fun and original content, exciting animations, and most of all a capability for the game to be interesting for hardcore competitive gamers, while being different from existing fighting game mechanics. I'm actually working 6/7 days, 10/24 hours on it, and will possibly have to put myself into debt for one year to finish it properly. So there's a lot of personal investment

    Actually I'm 100% confirming that the game will be released before September, that's a sure thing.

    And thank you for your interest

    ____

    Also guys, don't hesitate to give any critic about what you see/know from Kinetic Damage, may it be positive or negative (stuff that could really affect you while playing). I will really learn from that.
    For example I'm a bit stressed out by the overall graphical quality. Some people on the net say it's not pretty, while some other who played it say it's looking very good. I don't think it's top notch graphically, because I did lack of time to make it ultra polished. But I'll try to make a second pass on levels.

    ___

    Sidenote : I'm very happy to see that Sir Yoshinori Ono, the producer of Street Fighter 4, revealed in a recent interview that his vision of future fighting games is all about customization and character creation
    link : http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...street-fighter
    That's an honor to see the biggest fighting game producer sharing the same vision I started to have 3 years ago
    Last edited by n0mad; 02-05-2012 at 05:33 AM.


  7. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Hey there, I made a second pass over level graphics quality. As Kinetic Damage was formerly made for older mobiles, iPad version would be quite unacceptable on certain background scenes. Now I think it will be better. Tell me what you think ! (I put Antialiasing 8x, so the judgement is completely focused on artworks and design).
    That's how it should look on your iPad, minus the AA (or not, I'll put a settings option for AA anyway).

    First 2 levels : Alien Landing Station and Borrowed Mansion.

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    Last edited by n0mad; 02-09-2012 at 01:51 AM.


  8. Posts
    134
    Great news on the update!

    Personally I think the graphical weakness is not in your environment but in the character models. They are a bit lacking in geometry details such as the mitten fingers (as opposed to have 5 full fingers) and some clothing looking a bit blocky. If any dynamic cloth/hair animation is possible it would also make it more appealing.You could also play around with more advanced shaders and lighting for the characters (take a look how the character shader makes SFIV look so unique)

    However, If you intend to keep performance high for older generation devices, increasing character detail may not be feasible.

    Also make sure your animations transition smoothly between different states, in early gameplay videos you released, some animation transitions appeared quick and looked unnatural. You haven't released any videos in a long time so this may have already been addressed

    Overall though I believe the quality of this game looks a cut above most stuff on the market (at least on Android, I do not have an iOS device). As long as the gameplay is engaging I think it should be successful


  9. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Ah great, some feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by MABManZ View Post
    Personally I think the graphical weakness is not in your environment but in the character models. They are a bit lacking in geometry details such as the mitten fingers (as opposed to have 5 full fingers) and some clothing looking a bit blocky.
    Totally agree about the fingers ^^ In fact, I reworked them completely lately, and give every model 10 fingers
    (I thought there would be some screenshots showing it, but there seems not)

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    About clothing, it's a bit more complicated. As you said, I intend to keep the game playable on older devices, so I had to limit the number of polys per model (actually 1000). Making the clothes less blocky would require to make another batch of all of them (128 total), and I will never have the time.

    Although, there are some vids where I was testing a smoothing angle of 60, which became 80 since then, so less blocky feeling

    Quote Originally Posted by MABManZ View Post
    If any dynamic cloth/hair animation is possible it would also make it more appealing.You could also play around with more advanced shaders and lighting for the characters (take a look how the character shader makes SFIV look so unique)

    However, If you intend to keep performance high for older generation devices, increasing character detail may not be feasible.
    Yeah I loved SF4 shaders. I tried some different experiences with char shader, so they would be more glorified than the background, and ended with a custom written surface shader which just boosts contrast, + adds a backlight on the silhouette.

    I tried toon shading too, but it was decimating the textures too much. So finally, contrast + backlight + consistent work on textures (baking SSAO, for instance)

    Quote Originally Posted by MABManZ View Post
    Also make sure your animations transition smoothly between different states, in early gameplay videos you released, some animation transitions appeared quick and looked unnatural. You haven't released any videos in a long time so this may have already been addressed
    Absolutely ! It didn't feel right to me too. In fact I spent a whole week writing a mini framework to manage transitions
    Result is flawless : I tested all kinds of transitions (some of them mixing up to 5 different anims), and even at a TimeScale of 0.1, there's absolutely not a single start of animation twitching

    I also wrote a complete runtime manager which would suppress any offset when mixing 2 anims. For example, if Anim1 finishes at X = 0.5, and Anim2 starts at X = -10, the character would "slides" backwards due to interpolation. The manager I wrote nullifies that, with complex calculations based on determining the offset of the animation to play ahead of time, all with a minimal processing overhead (1 ms).


    You can see the two managers in action in this video :



    Char on the left performs 4 different animations, with an offset of X = 500 cm from Anim3 to Anim4 (armLock to stand), while char on the right performs 5 anims.

    Left Char anims are triggered on button push (it's a combo), so transitions can happen at any time.

    Char on the right even uses a part of the manager which interpolates between 2 mirrored animations (calculating a flawless visual from one anim facing right, and one anim facing left, resulting in both facing left).

    Timescale in the video is 0.2, so it will be even more unnoticeable at full speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MABManZ View Post
    Overall though I believe the quality of this game looks a cut above most stuff on the market (at least on Android, I do not have an iOS device). As long as the gameplay is engaging I think it should be successful
    Thank you very much for this precious feedback, it helps me to know where I should focus my efforts during the few monthes left
    (on top of remaining features to produce)
    Last edited by n0mad; 03-29-2012 at 11:56 AM.


  10. Location
    Paris
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    Also, Borrowed Mansion level was feeling a bit lifeless, so I added 2 bimbos and a cool dude buoy sliding in the pool

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  11. Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,060
    More bimbos, please.
    Colored Shadows
    Batching Tools
    : Batch draw calls easily.
    Toon Shader Mobile: Good for mobile, fast and beautiful.
    Toon Shader Desktop: Good for desktops, more advanced.
    Thyella : A small game prototype on Kongregate


  12. Location
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    lol, I would have loved to
    But poly number has reached the limit for this level
    If I'd have more time, I would have solved this by creating billboard bimbos in the background.
    (hey that sounds rythmic ! "Billboard Bimbos in the Background, yo")


  13. Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,085
    Obviously you're a hardcore fighter fan, but it seems like your target market is a little different?

    From what I can gather of your mechanics, timing and collision stuff you aren't aiming for frame level accuracy... is that correct?

    How would you summarise your market?
    2D Platform Controller - Solid, configurable 2D/2.5D Platform controls for Unity.
    City Builder Starter Kit - Create games like DragonVale, Simpsons Tapped Out or even Clash of Clans.
    Automatic Acrobatic: Parkour System - Spice up your games with acrobatic parkour moves.
    2D Character System - Say Goodbye To Programmer Art


  14. Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyA View Post
    Obviously you're a hardcore fighter fan, but it seems like your target market is a little different?
    Yes, I admit being what you can call the "hardcore" fan type in every games
    (looking for absolute precision in gameplay, competitiveness, and complicated strategies)

    Because I know hardcore fighting crowd is a niche, I designed Kinetic Damage's controls and mechanics either for those hardcore players, either people who just want to mash buttons.
    I can't reveal 50% of the core mechanics right now, but basically being precise and strategic in your moves decisions will grant a fair advantage. While just searching the "push button = break face" feeling will work too.

    I'm getting rid of complicated control mechanics, like quarter forward control types, 3 frames windows to perform a combo, etc.
    You want to perform a special, just push the button.
    Finger agility will still be requested, but will be more shifted toward right time decision making.

    All while keeping intact the fast paced action, indeed (most strike launch times are below 0.25 seconds).

    i'm also getting rid of anything we've seen in past fight games that could deteriorate the action intensity by abuse, like :
    - projectiles (I hate to fight people who just flee to spam projectiles when they feel in danger, and I've seen a lot)
    - grabs invulnerability (causing some player constantly searching to grab instead of looking for the right strike)
    - turtling (people being constantly guarding)
    - 20 seconds long combos (causing the victim being unable to play for 20 seconds)
    - long infight cinematics, etc

    I've really put a lot of effort to keep a perpetual mix of clash and decision making while fighting. I'm even thinking about putting a rule found in taekwondo which consists in giving a penalty if fighters don't exchange strikes within a 6 seconds time span ... I got yet to decide this

    I also designed a lot of specials to have a counter ability (at a cost).

    In short, I wanted people to give a real fight.

    Additionally, I'd say that Kinetic Damage is absolutely not designed to be a competitor to existing fighting games, but more like a parallel experience.
    I can perfectly see one hardcore fighting gamer to play both Street Fighter 4 for the agility based gameplay, and Kinetic Damage for its custom strategies and character evolution.

    Existing fighting games focus on popular characters too, while Kinetic Damage focus on creating your own fighter, and making him/her evolve. It's a completely different feel and purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyA View Post
    From what I can gather of your mechanics, timing and collision stuff you aren't aiming for frame level accuracy... is that correct?
    In fact, timing is even more important in this game than any regular fighting game, because of some level of required management during the fight. I will expose those mechanics soon (when the fight HUD will be finished, in fact), but there's plenty of food for the brain.

    I also designed every animation around a fixed template variation, so that chosing to perform strike X instead of strike Y is absolutely not a random decision for a player :



    To say how much I was maniac about precision, the collision manager I was talking about 2 posts ago was specially made to force every transition to respect every strike duration.
    Native interpolation via Animation.Crossfade() does crop the 2 animations due to interconnection, and would shorten each strike, leading to completely mess up all the balance I made with the Excel file.
    With my manager, there is no more cropping, as animation 1 will put itself on an automatic ClampForever as long as it is not crossfaded with animation 2. When it's fully faded out, it returns in its Once wrap mode, therefore stops automatically.

    Also, collision stuff is based on strikeBox vs hitBox, just like any fighting game, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyA View Post
    How would you summarise your market?
    1) hardcore fighting gamers who want to experience the same explosive, action packed fights but with a different gameplay and character approach
    2) people who just want to smash some faces for short periods of times, wherever they are

    When production cycle will be over, I'll produce some clear presentation videos, explaining everything in details. They will be available on kineticdamage.com for anybody who wants to learn more. Plus, the career mode will serve the learning purpose, taking players by the hand and ramping up their class knowledge.
    Last edited by n0mad; 02-10-2012 at 11:07 AM.


  15. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Business Center Ruins, final state.

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  16. Location
    Boston, Ma
    Posts
    2,441
    Quote Originally Posted by n0mad View Post
    Business Center Ruins, final state.

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    This is pretty damn cool man... this game has come a long way... I also love the Krav Maga demo too and it caught my eyes... if you are putting this on iPad, I will definitely buy it...


  17. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Thanks
    I had a hard time toying with Beast settings to bring some eye-catching lightmaps, it's like every knot little single nuance can change how the whole scene does feel ... I definitely give my respect to pro lightmappers who work on AAA huge scenes, they might become crazy at times, especially with the needed calculation time before seeing one single result.



  18. Location
    Paris
    Posts
    3,730
    Quote Originally Posted by jrricky View Post
    Wait a min nomad, I thought you completed all levels already. Still working on art assets?
    Past week + this week, I'm doing a second pass on every level, adding elements, refining, and reworking textures/lightmaps. I had to, because a recent test on an iPad screen would show some severe lack of details on certain levels.
    Results are coming quickly, so it's not a big hit into dev cycle
    You can test a comparison with old versions if you want :

    Business Center Ruins before :
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    (Against now, in the previous post)

    edit : crap, we can't really judge as the pics are too small ... But in short, lightmaps were badly managed (no real contrast), some parts of the view were filling empty, and some transparent textures did have aliasing. It wouldn't have caused any problem on tiny mobile screens, but iPad audience would have burried me alive
    Last edited by n0mad; 02-13-2012 at 09:07 AM.


  19. Location
    Boston, Ma
    Posts
    2,441
    Loving this... keep this going. BTW, did you use Excel to do your spreadsheet for taking down data?

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