Unity iPhone Support Group (UISG)

I always wanted to make an Acronym for a group

So, after reading the topic titled "App Store Ranking Sales", UVRadiation mentioned we could help each other get our apps into the top spots in the app store by buying and rating each member's app when it is released.

Why would this help you?
When you release an app to the appStore ... it's lost in a list of over 10,000 apps.. and the only way someone will find it is if you drill down through the menus. The average iphone user won't do that.

To have a successful app you need to land in the top 100. Once there you will get enough exposure to generate a user base and maybe even Apple's attention to feature you on the main appStore page.

So why should you invest in others?
When you support another member of UISG you not only help them reach the top 100 .. but you potentially help yourself.

When you join UISG, members will work together to purchase your app and help you get into the top 100 fast.. in return you will do the same for other members.

So I'm sure you're asking yourself "So how does this REALLY help me?" Here's how...

When you view an app in the app store you will notice on the right hand side a section called "users who bought this app also bought..." If we work together and by each other's apps.. we will all share this space. So if a UISG member makes it into the top 100, we sorta all make it into the top 100 which will increase our sales.

This will also help Unity
If we do this the right way and everyone works together.. not only will we help ourselves but we will help Unity as a whole. The Unity splash logo that we all "LOVE" :wink: will be a trusted sight to users after awhile. And also other developers will want to use Unity for their games.

I know this may sound like a long shot, or too good to be true. But I really think it could work if we give it a try.

If you're interested please reply and we can get something started.

 

How many members would be required to achieve the desired effect? 50? 100?

 

Also if every member puts out apps regularly then the monthly fee for this club could be a factor.

 

Reading that other thread ( http://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=16474 ) where the consensus seemed to be that those most bought/most downloaded lists are updated very frequently based on numbers in the last few hours i think such a support act ( ) would only require few participants but also only have short term effects mostly, so maybe good to kick things off or revitalize em in between.
I like the idea of helping each other, i already buy any iphone games by people here, on one side cause i´m curious to see what others make with unity and what´s possible on the device, on the other side i think its nice to support the others.

 

Well said TouchSoft!
I think we need some kind of system, so that people will know who bought their game from the community.
people are afraid that they will buy other peoples apps and the other people wont buy theirs back (self included).
Perhaps a screenshot image sent from the iPhone (clicking both buttons on the iPhone at the same time does that) to a specific email account, as a confirmation of purchase.
Also if people are afraid that they will have to buy loads of applications , I think we could start of by giving each UISG member ( sounds solid!) a limit of something like $3 worth of apps for per year that he can tell the members to buy.

Remember that if we buy loads of apps , this means loads of people will buy ours , so that's a good thing!

Another problem we need to figure out , is that some people are members of different app stores , so if f.e I buy your app from the Israeli app store - it's not going to have much of an impact, so we all have to find a way to make all of our purchases from the USA app store.

Anyway , I think it's well worth the hassle for us to unite , we are competing with companies like SEGA , Namco and EA. the only way for us to succeed is together, not only in buying each others apps. Also by creating joined press releases, perhaps a joined site to display all of our apps , or maybe even putting a recommended app list with links inside our apps in the menu with links to the app store.
I am willing to pay a participation fee in advance for something like that , so that we'll know that the members are serious about working together.

 

Count me in as well. As far as the site to display Unity iPhone games, Tom mentioned to me on IM that he's planning to turn my "List Your Game Here" thread into a section on the Unity website at some point. So maybe if enough of us have content, we can get that bumped to a higher priority. Tom?

 

You know, I wasn't seriously suggesting this in the other thread, but I am glad you ran with it. I mean, I've been buying copies of all games I see in the "unity iphone apps in the store" thread, so why not coordinate and help each other get into the top lists?

To make this work, you'll need to pick a date time for all of us to make the purchase. Since we're not totally sure of the 2-hour window (or when the window begins or ends) we'll probably all need to buy the game around the same time.

Since Martin started the other thread, I'd say we should start with his game, but since most of us probably already have it, we need to wait for something new.

As a test, someone should release a new title (in as many store internationally as possible), and whoever volunteers to be in this group should buy it simultaneously (rather, within an hour or so) and report back here with which store they bought from, and the developer should share the sales and ratings metrics with us.

Any volunteers?

 

my first iphone game should come out sometime next week, anyone´s coming out sooner?

 

I've seen some great suggestions. I'm currently compiling a list of those and will present them to the community so we can plan a course of action. We definitely want this to be organized and fair.

A few suggestions I have:
- Each developer gets the support of the community only once per quarter (every 3 months).

- Target price range for community support is $0.99 - $1.99 (I personally think a price limit needs to be set on community supported apps, any apps higher than that are optional support).

- When submitting an app for community support you must supply the community organizer (whoever we select for the position) with a cropped screenshot of your iTunes app purchase history (only showing apps from the community since the day you joined, just blur out other purchases or crop them out). Once the organizer approves your app for community support we will set a target date and time to push you up to the top (the best we can).

These are just some personal suggestions.. but I would love to hear from others.. I've done a lot of community organizing growing up and during college so this stuff is fun for me

 

I've always wanted to see a community support each other like this. Great initiative.

 

Haha, oh MAN you have got to be kidding me!

My first peruse of the Unity forums, and what do I come across? A bunch of losers trying to figure out a way of conning the Ratings system, and their customers, by forming a "secret club" on a public forum!

Hilarious. And incredibly sad. This has got to be shared. Maybe I should link to this in reviews of your apps; see if that helps your sales, eh?

Seriously guys, get a life and act your age. You're a disgrace and an embarrassment to people who actually sell games based on worth. Shame on you! Bad dog!

I just can't stop laughing. I have this image in my head of Dad's Army. Fantastic

 

It's public because we have nothing to hide,
We are talking about buying each others apps, amongst other things, on a strategic time (instead of what we are doing now, which is on a random time) , paying money fair and square.
Trust me, this wouldn't put anyone on the top paid apps by itself, only give a little kick start. still only the good games will rise and most will sink.
anyway I am glad we made you laugh, it's healthy to laugh.
Peace and Love
UV

 

Shows again that everything in live can be seen from various angles.

"A bunch of losers trying to figure out a way of conning the Ratings system, and their customers"

It wasn´t intended to conning the ratings system, the idea was to give games the chance of a short time boost to get noticed, as UV said good games would then have a chance to get into the public eye, bad ones would be off the featured list again as soon as the next cycle kicks in (which seems to be around every two hours).
In case you weren´t aware big companies use all sorts of marketing ways to boost their sales, among those also to buy their own content several times.
I don´t see anything bad if indies buy others´ games to help them get noticed.

"forming a "secret club" on a public forum!"

You basically already have the explanation for why your statement is nonsense in the statement itself. If it was a secret club people wouldn´t talk about it on a public forum.
One could debate if it has to be done in such a structured manner, personally i already bought all games i liked from indies to support em in the past anyway, but yeah, again, i see nothing bad in helping other indies, if you don´t like to support others, well, just don´t, but its nonsense to try to sell that as if something illegitimate was done.

 

Oh come on, you can see I'm tickled pink, so the "secret club" jab can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Marketing companies use all sorts of terrible tactics to sell products and get airspace, but it doesn't make it right.

People spend money on good faith - if you want to abuse that, and that's what you're discussing here no matter how you try to dress it up, then you should expect nothing less than derision and criticism.

A lie is a lie...

 

What is the lie? That 10 people buy something?

 

A lie is a falsehood.

The lie here attempting to fake the popularity of one or more paid products for personal gain.

You argue that you're doing it for the "other indy developers". You mean the other indy devs in your "club".

I'm an indy developer and I don't need any help promoting my software: I may have to work my backside off promoting my stuff, but that's graft for you. That's what it means to work for a living. You think you're going to be able to win an argument with someone who works for a living to promote their work?

Anyone who claims they're doing no more than a marketing company has a lot to learn, and there's only one type of marketing company that I know of that would resort to fixing charts; the cowboy variety.

Which is exactly what this thread reeks of. Cowboy marketing; done badly at that.

And why the hell it's in a development forum is way beyond me.

 

It wasn´t intended to manipulate anything, its not faking when people legitimately buy something.
It was also not the idea to write false reviews or anything, if people don´t like a game they would either not buy it or if they buy it write a negative review about it, the only thing such a group buy would bring would be that a game appears in a list for two hours so that others see it.

Hm, no, i support other indies where i can cause i feel as part of the indy group, i recently bought world of goo and regularly buy various indy games and i also pimp good indy games when i get to it like here:
http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=759637&highlight=live

Overall i´m sad if it gives a fishy feeling to someone, i felt like its a nice thing to support each other, didn´t think others would see it as such weird thing. Well, how do others here see this?

 

It figures that someone would look at this with a cynical eye. In truth this is just a simple way to get Unity games in front of a larger audience. Then that audience will decide what games are actually good. It's a simple gesture of good faith among the members of a small community. We'll make sure to exclude you though. Afterall, it would be a shame for you to lose your spot on the moral high ground.

 

Here's what I think:

First off, this topic is WAY to big for a single forum post. This should be a website all to itself. Also, there has to be a way of monitoring who buys what to make sure it's ever (we dont want everyone to go to one app and leave other developer's who invest their money left behind)

With an entire website dedicated to this, we could have "accounts" and somehow find a way to make sure the account-holder actually bought the app, maybe just taking a picture of their SpringBoard with the App Icons and names (these are very hard to copy and ensures the account-holder actually bought the app.

This interest's me greatly and I'm glad to help out my fellow developers!

 

also, can someone sticky this?

 

Yea, I see this more as an advertising pool, some of us don't have the budget of EA. I fully expect honest reviews of my game if it sucks, it helps me improve it.

 

removed

 

Excuse me?? Are you talking about the fact that I pushed back the release of my 3D app? :roll: Please... get a life.

 

sorry touchsoft i was a bit pissed off at you. it would have been nice to have been told the release date was pushed back. it took a while to find u

 

So, we need a time to test our first app boost "top secret operation" .
tommosaur - time and date ?
If that's fine by everyone.

 

get a grip, Operatus. no one's talking about beating people up to get them to buy games... if some of the people here are buying every unity-made game anyway, they could just as well do it all at the same time...

btw: count me in on this secret operation... For the most part... I'm not buying any no-gameplay-for-999$ stuff... but if something looks fun, I'm in with no questions asked...

 

one more thought though: If we're all in different regions, the chances of boosting something might be a little slim...

then again... in a small country like Austria maybe my one sale will boost it straight to the top...

 

Sounds like a fun idea. I think this is a really nice way of peer support. Maybe we could use http://www.timeanddate.com to "synchronize" the time to buy. You can create customized count-downs on that site which makes it much easier to have the same time across different time zones.

I really wouldn't worry about people wanting others to buy their app and not buying the other devs apps, though. I mean, unless someone puts up a game for $10 (which probably would have no chance of any sales anyways), it's the kind of amount you just "click away", even if it's a couple of games.

 

LoL. You guys make me laugh, honestly.

I'll come back later when you've worn yourselves out with cleverness.

 

This isn't about being clever. It's about making a living. Not everyone up here is a hobbyist.

Where's the fake popularity? If it only takes a dozen purchases to vault an app onto the best-seller list for a short time, why is coordinating the timing of independently-decided-upon purchasing decisions a lie?

All the presence on the list signifies is "for a two-hour period earlier today, these 10 apps sold more copies than all other apps". If that happens by virtue of a coordinated purchase, it's still true.

It's not nearly as ugly as the publishing world. Have you ever seen the New York Times bestseller list? There a many titles there that are vaulted into the top ten by "bulk purchases," which the Times notes usually happens when the author or publisher buys many copies from retailers in order to get into the top ten list. They don't blackball titles, authors or publishers who do this -- they just note it with an symbol.

Likewise, there are a dozen ways music publishers try to get their titles onto the Billboard 200. Ever hear a Blind Mellon song? It's because their label made bulk purchases of their album, at retail, to push the album onto the Billboard list. Once it's there the marketing guys could argue with MTV and top 40 stations that it's got a hot single and deserves to be in the rotation. (And this is totally separate from illegal methods of song promotion, like payola /pay-for-play.)

Whether we like it or not, the point is to create exposure for the band/song. Once listeners hear it, they make their own purchasing decisions. No one is forcing listeners to buy the song. However, if the song is never heard, the listener never gets to make a purchasing decision about it.

How does this apply to us? Like music, our apps have zero chance of success unless user sees them. For iTunes, this typically means that they are on an iTunes top-whatever list. If the user can see the app, they can make a purchasing decision about it. If they never see it, they never get to consider it.

The only other way to promote your game is through third-party game review websites, but there are far more apps made than review opportunities (especially since most app review sites also review general-purpose apps, not just games).

I'm not at all happy about the state of iTunes retailing. I have discussed this at length in other threads. I think Apple has a long way to go before iTunes is great for all app developers.

Compared to the other things you can buy in iTunes, apps have additional hurdles. Music is generally discovered outside iTunes. Same for movies and TV shows. But (in most cases) apps can only be discovered through iTunes. So iTunes needs to have some really great ways to browse and discover apps. But so far, the best it can offer are the top ten lists.

I would love to see the app store gain more "frontage," with more apps prominently features, and with the app screenshots featured instead of 57 x 57 icons.

I would love to see Apple implement a 3-day-trial for apps, using the same DRM technology they are already applying to video rentals. That gives buyers a real chance to try out an app and make a truly informed purchasing decision.

The only other way I can think of to promote you app is to get your app onto devices in the Apple retail stores. I have participated in such a program with Apple -- my first game is on three devices in every Apple store worldwide. (Which is pretty awesome, by the way, to walk into an Apple store and see people playing my game. And occasionally very humbling.) However, I was invited by Apple. You can't ask them to include you. And I can't get my next game included. Unless Apple had a station where any app could be downloaded and tried out (and I have suggested this to Apple) it's not marketing that scales to the entire dev community.

 

I have my doubts that this type of thing would really work. But would like to offer myself (my app) to be the proverbial guinea pig. I'll be sure to let you know if it works. Please feel free to all starting buying my app.....
in 1... 2... 3... Buy now!
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=296185768

 

oops, missed that one.
Well, my first thingy for the iphone will be released as free app initially anyway, its more a toy than a game, me having fun getting into iphone dev distribution
So dunno if you want to try it with a free game, those usually end up in the top apps lists by themselves anyway so it would probably make more sense to help a commercial game get noticed.
That first thingy i made is in review in the appstore now and i´m meanwhile working on my first fulll fledged commercial from the getgo game, it´ll take a while though till that is done, so yeah, maybe we should go for another one thats released earlier
We could go for randyedmonds´or another
Jashan´s linked thingy for handling it seems like a good idea.

 

so touchsoft; please reply to pms. sim city came out. i did not know you had pushed back the release date of the urban tycoon update (since u put a sale saying it was near and kinda dissapeared). so when can we expect the update? please reply.

 

Hahaha; get a life". Classic. Well; I rather be like this and not rip off ppl. Listen; I apologized (Check you pms). I did not know the release date was pushed back since you dissapeared from even your website. Eventually you will have to reply. :wink:

 

is the project still alive?
i would like to help.