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SUIMONO - Customizeable Water System [RELEASED]

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by chingwa, Aug 11, 2012.

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  1. virror

    virror

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    I hope he will go with the lower price, that way i can afford to buy it earlier : p
     
  2. poboczny

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    this is really amazing ! :)
     
  3. cubez

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    Wow, Suimono is looking really great! (I also enjoy a good soup) :D

    We really could use some great water systems in the Asset Store. I've been looking for a water asset which could create a convincing ocean shoreline. So that's basically animating shore waves + foam.

    I'm guessing it's beyond the scope of things that you are planning to do with Suimono (which I guess is still water), but hey, it never hurts to ask. :cool: Would you consider implementing something like this in Suimono (scroll down to the bottom for a video example)?

    http://www.gamedev.net/blog/715/entry-2249487-ocean-rendering/

    I guess this is too mathematical for the non-mathematical brain, but it would be shiny to have nonetheless. ;)
     
  4. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Whoooo the month is winding down quick! I'd like to thank everyone for posting their encouragement, all the support and feedback has been great! I am still on schedule and have the next few days free to clean up all remaining issues. I'll keep you guys updated on when the final submission is ready.

    @cubez - the water in that link is pretty incredible :D I have been interested in doing waves like this for a while. When I see those mathematical formulas my eyes glaze over, but there may be a way to do this that is a bit less taxing on the ol' brain. Once the initial submission is out of the way I'll be looking into this type of feature for the first update!
     
  5. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

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    Triton is being ported over so if you need real ocean you should wait for that, but suimono looks great for the configurability and presets, i'll definately get both.
     
  6. cubez

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    @chingwa Looking forward to your "brain friendly edition". And good luck with finishing your first version! ;)

    @ronan.thibaudau If I understand this comment from Sundog correctly, Triton will be PC desktop initially (I guess because of the DLL). And I guess this could also mean no Mac support initially (which is a problem for me). It also looks like more of a solution for a full fledged ocean simulation with buoyancy. That being said, we need more high quality and performance friendly water assets, so keep 'em coming! :cool:
     
  7. chingwa

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    Just a note to let everyone know that a Webplayer demo is available for viewing. I've updated the first page of this thread with the Webplayer link, or you can get to it by clicking right here.

    Unfortunately the webplayer doesn't give an example of all the functionality (sounds, and custom colors for example!) but it gives a good impression of the interactivity and customizing that is included in the system.

    I've detailed some of the additional features that have been added since the original preview video had been posted. These details are on the first post as well. I would like to give a shout-out to cubez for convincing me to do shore-based wave effects. They aren't quite as elaborate as the example video that you posted, but you can see the effect running in the webplayer. Below is a short explanation on the technique. This is entirely texture based, there is no mesh deformation, and it runs entirely in the shader itself.





    I'm now just putting the final touches on suimono, and crushing some bugs, and it should be ready to submit to the Asset Store in the next day or two.
     
  8. cubez

    cubez

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    Nice! That's 100% delicious awesomesauce. Looking forward to playing around with it. :D
     
  9. virror

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    Hmm, getting a whole lot of different bugs with the webplayer.
    Does not work very well at all.

    Can post some pics later but a quick rundown:
    Splash particles never stop even if im just standing there it keeps splashing.
    Ice physics are broken, still goes down in the ice and it splashes and stuff
    I can see squares around the drops on the camera as well as around the circles in the water
    I always gets distortion around the player as soon as i look at the water.
    Controls are kind of strange, forward is the only thing that works good

    Edit: Ice physics worked if i set the checkbox, maybe want to set that in the presets to help ppl test quickly
     
  10. chingwa

    chingwa

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    @cubez - Thanks! Hope you enjoy the demo!

    @virror - thank you for the bug report! As for the ice physics I've fixed and reuploaded the demo, and this should be working correct now (that's what I get for coding a ui at 3am). Note now you will only be able to set the "physics" checkbox if you''ve selected the "customize preset" setting as well. The other issues you brought up will require a bit of time to sort out. I'm not seeing the squares you mentioned around the drops and splashes... I will investigate! If you get the chance I'd love to see a pic of what you're seeing. Thanks for the help!
     
  11. ronan-thibaudau

    ronan-thibaudau

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    Looking good but runs very slow for me (12-13 fps on a GT 540 M)
     
  12. sjm-tech

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    weird visualization also for me! (home pc with XP and old GF 7900GS)
    EDIT: UNity 4 beta

    Maybe the same issues pointed by virror:
     

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  13. chingwa

    chingwa

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    sjm tech thank you very much for the screenshot. I'll see if I can track down the cause of this bug.
     
  14. Mihai93

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    Is relased?
     
  15. chingwa

    chingwa

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  16. Mihai93

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    i have tryed it and looks excelent good work can i may request a new custom wather like that into skyrim?? you think is possibly?
     
  17. chingwa

    chingwa

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    @virror sjm - I believe I've tracked down and fixed the glowing box bug. I've updated the demo with the new edits, If you get the chance I'd like to know if this fixes this problem for you. I'm still looking into the other bugs that sjm mentioned, and I'm also looking into speeding the webplayer up . It runs great on higher end systems, but is almost un-playable on older cards/machines.
     
  18. sjm-tech

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    Notes:
    - Now the ripples effect are perfect.
    - Webplayer more responsive.
    - Same distorsion effect around the player
    - Total black water with waves enabled



    However the water is fantastic!
    soon i report my test in my work PC (high end machine) to see the full effects and global performance.
    Max

    EDIT: Unity 4 beta
     

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  19. virror

    virror

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    Here at work i have the exact same problems as sjm.
     
  20. sjm-tech

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    In my work pc (W7U 64bit - radeon HD 5870) all goes well except the distortion effect when the water is behind the player.
    The waves are awesome!
    Max

    Edit: Unity 3.5.5
     

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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  21. UnleadedGames

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    I'm having something odd going on as well, but it may very well be because I'm using the Unity 4 B7 web player.

    http://youtu.be/LAacJBW8r38
     
  22. chingwa

    chingwa

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    @sjm thanks for the updated pictures. The black wave bug is very strange indeed, still trying to track this one down, and also looking into the incorrect water distortion behind the player.

    @UnleadedGames - thanks a lot for the video! It seems it could be some kind of z-fighting issue. Could you tell me if this flickering still happens when you turn off the 'display waves' checkbox? also your system / graphics card? I have not done any testing of this with Unity4 as of yet, as it's still in Beta. Once I get all the current bugs sorted out and after the initial release I'll make sure Unity4 compatibility is included.
     
  23. UnleadedGames

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    My apologies I would imagine that information would be useful!

    Windows 7 x64 - 12GB Ram - i7 920 - 1GB Geforce 260 GTX w/ 296.10 Drivers

    The flickering does continue when waves are turned on or off. Aside from the flickering, I would like to note that I think this looks amazing so far! Can't wait to see the final product!
     
  24. chingwa

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    Thanks for the info, and the compliment! It's hard for me to reproduce this bug on my test system, but I believe there's a bug in the height depth calculation that is causing this. I've made some shader edits and I think it may have fixed this problem (or at least improved it). New Demo is uploaded... Let me know if this has helped at all when you get the chance.

    Has anyone else experienced any flicker issues?
     
  25. sjm-tech

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    Last Webplayer:
    - Work PC (High End): all works perfect. No more issues!
    - Home PC (Low End): same black water with waves enabled ...distortion with some preset (often near the foam of the shoreline). With custom settings..the issue disappear reducing to 0 the "refract strenght".

    some notes:

    - would be more easy, to test the webplayer, if you could use standard wasd( and arrows) keyboard layout instead of your custom configuration (this not is relevant regards your nice water system)
    - in the preset with not flowing water (like ice etc...) could be useful that waves and ripples were automatically disabled.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  26. ronan-thibaudau

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    I'm still getting a slow 12 fps on the latest webplayer with what i think is a rather decent computer (core I3, 8GB ram, GT540M), and that's with the low res of the web player i expect it would be even slower in native res. Could you look into this?
     
  27. jc_lvngstn

    jc_lvngstn

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    First: Absolutely awesome water system. I'm looking forward to seeing it on the asset store.

    As for the odd distortion around the character and other items...this looks like it's caused by the distortion effect in the water. I've seen this before, in other games. It happens on my system also.

    Unfortunately, I have no idea technically what is happening, or how to get around it. Maybe if a separate camera renders the water? Dunno.
     
  28. chingwa

    chingwa

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    @ronan.thibaudau - I'm trying to narrow down why the fps is so low. I actually suspect it is not having to do with the water, but something else in my scene, perhaps the controller. I've made a test version that only has the water asset, a light, and an fps counter. everything else has been stripped away. can you take a look and tell me what kind of FPS you're getting here?

    click here to try FPS TEST version

    @sjm - thanks for the suggestions and the help!

    @jc_lvngstn - Thanks for the compliment! I hope to get this all wrapped up and submitted to the store very soon. the refraction bleeding is extremely difficult to fix, which is why you do see it in many games. (I've even seen it on a few Skyrim videos... ^_^ ) the solutions to fix this are not ideal, which is why many developers say "the hell with it". have improved it in the current demo, but it is still there. I really don't want to add a second camera as that was one of my main criticisms of the built-in water, I'm still searching for a more ideal solution. ^_^
     
  29. ronan-thibaudau

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    Same thing, 15ish fps now
    Be glad to show you over on skype if that can help you debug (including providing a unity testbed for whatever you want to do)
     
  30. sjm-tech

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    In my Home PC (low end) the "fps test version" gives me a very low fps result than normal demo! :confused:

    TEST (low enf pc WXP_SP3_GF_7900_GS - Unity 4 beta):
     

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  31. jc_lvngstn

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    Does there have to be water refraction? Maybe something people could choose to be on or off.
     
  32. sjm-tech

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    Maybe i found the cause of the distortion fx issue: occur when the player is in front of a transparent water zone.
    Acting on "depth amount" I see this (seem that "refraction straight" don't likes the water transparence):
     

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  33. chingwa

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    what???? :-| That is certainly strange...! Thank you for sending the screenshots of what you're seeing. I'm still working on getting that distortion bleeding fixed. currently it is being partially hidden by the world depth fog, so on presets that have less fog you will have more bleeding. Hopefully I'll be able to get a better solution for this soon.

    @jc_lvngstn - I do plan to build in lower quality shaders once this full shader has all the bugs worked out. So one aspect of the lower shader will be to not use refraction, and then this won't be an issue. However for water in games these days, refraction is an expected attribute... so this needs to be fixed or at least made less obvious for the full shader. :)

    @ronan - I lowered the res of some of the textures, and also realized that I had the game camera set to HDR mode (I think this may be an issue with WebPlayers?). on my tests here I've seen a bit of an increase in fps, can you try out the below link on your system?

    TEST VERSION - lores and no HDR
     
  34. sjm-tech

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    this is the message that "unity 4 beta webplayer Development console" shows at the start:
    p.s. the last one version test_loresnohdr...gets rid of "all black water" with waves enabled...but remain very dark water and again no waves effect.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  35. chingwa

    chingwa

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    thanks again sjm, it's good to know that something is affecting that black water bug, I'm continuing to investigate...

    Incidentally I've just added a new preset to the system.... Skyrim :D

    this will also be available to preview the next time I update the webplayer demo with new bugfixes...
     
  36. Mihai93

    Mihai93

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    @Chingwa Thanks i will buy it and thanks for you exist for make this
     
  37. ronan-thibaudau

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    same results pretty much, 17ish fps range, doubt it's an issue with my system as gaming wise it's been running everything i throw at it just fine, and in unity i had no issues at all using SM3 shaders nor rendering 5milion poly terrains at 60fps
     
  38. sjm-tech

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    Hi chingwa, i have a little question .... i notice tha the demos webplayers are very big in Mb (44mb seems a complete level!) with a apparently simple scene ... how much resources are used by suimono in a projects? thanks!
    Max
     
  39. chingwa

    chingwa

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    I can't give you exact numbers at the moment... but I know the scene is currently over-bloated. I'm sure this has the effect of slowing down the web player and I was working last night to trim this down, and find exactly where the slowdown is. The water itself with all the textures and scripts I think is only around 10-15% of the download... The full shader in it's un-optimized state with all the depth/refract/reflect, caustic projection and waves is something like 10-15 drawcalls.

    when I get back from the office I can give you a more accurate account.
     
  40. Mihai93

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    Excelent Mane a question this scene will be included?
     
  41. chingwa

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    unfortunately no, the scene itself will not be included. I just wanted to show the preset it in a more natural "skyrim-like" context instead of the grid demo scene.
     
  42. chingwa

    chingwa

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    I've gone through and optimized the scene as much as possible, removing the time-of-day and also adding a few shader options to choose from for performance testing. I'd be interested to know sjm, and ronan, if you see any kind of performance increase either right away, or by selecting any of the test shaders...

    OPTIMIZED DEMO TEST (15mb)

    the refractive bleeding bug is still an issue unfortunately.

    @sjm - here's a breakdown of the draw calls I see on my side...
    water surface only - 2 drawcalls
    with refraction, reflection, depth - 9 drawcalls
    with wave effect - 10 drawcalls

    the projector caustics will be more or less performance heavy depending on the complexity of your scene. here in this demo scene it's adding 3 drawcalls, but it will certainly be more in a more complex scene. In the full package I have the option to do caustics using a shadow technique instead of a projector. It doesn't look as nice, but it only adds 1 draw call to the overhead. total download size for the entire Suimono package will be around 90mb.

    Also @Mihai, this test version does include the new "skyrim" preset if you'd like to see it in motion.
     
  43. sjm-tech

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    Big speed increase!

    At Home (without waves enabled):

    At Work :
    I made a clearing of "Unity Island Demo" (evergreen demo scene) that i use to test water solutions...could you try to add your system (now unity water4)to show it in action in a realistic developing stage.
    - Island Demo low
    - Reference webplayer with unity water4 (only 3 MB... usefull to detect the weigth of SUIMONO )
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  44. raoul

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    I had the same flickering going on as mentioned by UnleadedGames. Much better on the lastest builds but still flickering going on near the edges over here. This is on a on a nvidea GTX275
     

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  45. KRGraphics

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    This is very good looking... I had a chance to view the web demo and I noticed that the lava is still refracting/reflecting and generating ripples when it obviously would never generate ripples... and i think this would definitely work with my project... :)

    And I would love to see a real time scene rendered with Beast, especially with the Lava water...
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  46. chingwa

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    @SJM - OK Great! Thank you for your speed breakdowns. I feel there's probably a bit more optimization I can do in the shaders but this is very encouraging. Also thank you for the island demo scene. It's a great idea for comparison purposes! I'll download these files and upload a new demo webplayer later tonight.

    @raoul - yes that flickering bug is really elusive to track down. I'm certain it's from the depth shader calculation. I am continuing to look into this, thanks for your card specs!

    @Neptune - I can tweak the lava preset. Currently I'm actually stacking multiple water surfaces on top of each other to generate a more interesting effect, but this is of course not ideal. I can look into doing a webplayer demo in a lightmapped scene as well, for comparison.

    THANK YOU everyone for the assistance!
     
  47. UnleadedGames

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    Sorry about that chingwa, got side tracked and forgot to respond! The light flickering still happens but as Raoul mentions, the new build is much better but still there. I've updated to the latest nvidia drivers. I don't seem to have any issues with my wife's Geforce 8800, and my HTPC uses an AMD Radeon HD 4970, and both play the scene just fine. I do have to wonder if this is a problem for other geforce 200 series users out there as well?
     
  48. ronan-thibaudau

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    I'm still getting horrible performance with much better and more recent graphic card than than those reporting 40-60fps (2006 card vs 2011!)
    It seems really weird to me
     
  49. chingwa

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    OK, I have two new test demos based off the island scene that SJM posted here:

    Reference island scene

    The first test is using the "Hot Spring" prefab, and is the full shader. The second test is 1/3rd the size because I took out the caustic textures and animations. I'd like to now if you guys notice much performance difference between these two, and obviously if they're is any performance difference compared to the original scene above...

    Island Test Demo 1
    Island Test Demo 2

    @UnleadedGames and Raoul - no specific idea what is causing this flashing though I know it has to do with the depth calculations. I'm still doing some tests to try and narrow this down so this has not been specifically addressed in the test files mentioned above, but I would be curious to see if the second demo has any affect on this problem. I've been searching for gtx200 series issues but nothing that informs this problem has come up yet. I assume you're getting decent fps, and it's just the flashing that is the issue?

    @ronan - Can you try the original scene from smj above, and then the first test demo to compare the fps? That should definitely narrow down the problem if you're still getting low performance.

    Trying to fix all these issues has been a very frustrating experience for me, but also a very necessary one. The end of August has come and gone, but as you can see Suimono is getting very very close to release. I'd like to thank you guys for your help and patience, and I hope everyone bears with me until all these kinks are addressed!
     
  50. sjm-tech

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    Hi chingwa ... could you add an option to disable the waves because in my home pc i see the dark water effect!
    In an half hour I do a test in my Work pc.
    excluding (my) aesthetic issues...I don't see any performane difference compared the reference scene (cool).
    I'm very curios regards the oversizing of the webplayer (in the first demo)...but is another thing! (if you want a beta tester...i can find some time to do!)

    Edit: Work Pc...no display issues...fps same as reference scene (very good).

    Some esthetical notes (i think already available by some tweak of your system):
    - The shore line seem not well faded on the edge in the contact with the terrain.
    - I don't see any reflection of the terrain environment!
    - No enough transparent near the water (except near the shoreline)
    - Some pixelate fx near the water plane.
    - maintain the waves effect near (now is present faded also in the rest of water) the shoreline and add a falloff to rest of water.


    Another note...the waves effect is awesome!
     

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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
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