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Shuriken, the new particle system

Discussion in 'Developer Preview Archive' started by Artimese, Dec 25, 2011.

?

How is the new system?

  1. Its great as it is, nothing needs to be changed.

    195 vote(s)
    56.0%
  2. Its too complicated to use, it must be simplified!

    108 vote(s)
    31.0%
  3. Its too hard to learn, I will not use this new system.

    45 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. Django

    Django

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    @Muckel

    Well there is a shuriken demo project that comes with the Beta. Otherwise the best way to learn it, is by reading the manual to understand what each parameter does and then trying it for yourself to see the result on screen.

    The particle UV animation you're looking for is found in the module called "Texture Sheet Animation". If you're having trouble with it, post more details about your issue.
     
  2. rstorm000

    rstorm000

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    Hi I'm having a problem with the shuriken gizmo size. in b6 it was scaling up with the size of the object. But now it always remains in a 1*1*1 cube unless i edit the gizmo directly. Is there any way to access the shuriken gizmo size from code or way to fiz this bug?
     
  3. FrankB

    FrankB

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    Thanks for the help Django, I expected Sorting Fudge to have something to do with it but didn't know the parameters so it didn't give me any result. Now it's all good.
     
  4. profanicus

    profanicus

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    Small issue here - I don't know if this one has been mentioned, but the Texture Sheet Anim module shows one too many frames in the curve editor by default.

    That is, you put in say 16 tiles in x, it defaults the graph to 0-16 instead of 0-15.
     
  5. Muckel

    Muckel

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    @ Django thxxx.... i had no idea that there was a Shruiken Demo...!
    but well for future i would like to have a better Demo with more Effects... like great Explosions with sound and colliders... all the new features how they work...

    Request: a Editor Script or Tool that convert the legacy Particle System to Shuriken System...
    That would be very useful i would also Pay for it !
     
  6. WBDN

    WBDN

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    This is because you want all 16 frames to display for equally long times. If it only went to 15 then the last frame would only be visible for a fraction of a second.
     
  7. XeviaN360

    XeviaN360

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    Hi, i'm trying to scale Particle Systems according to game Quality Settings. I just want to scale the "Max Particles" parameter of shuriken, but this is not exposed.
    Any advice?
    Thank you, Christian
     
  8. Chongo

    Chongo

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    i just wanted to say i love the new system. way more control than what we had in 3.4 reminds me a lot of the trapcode particular plugin for after effects. I dont have that much experience w/ the systems they have in max/maya/etc but i'd image you'd have a lot more control in those. Shuriken may not be the perfect solution for everyone, but its definitely a good step in the right direction of making unity truely an awesome engine to use. So for that, THANK YOU team unity. :D
     
  9. deram_scholzara

    deram_scholzara

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    I just discovered something that really bugs me about Shuriken.

    Apparently when you use Billboard Stretched mode in the renderer module, and apply a scale, it stretches the particles backwards from the direction they are moving.

    I can totally see why Unity decided to do this - because if your individual particles look like they have trails, then this will make the head of the particle be the part that causes collision.

    However, I just came across a case where this is a big problem. I'm trying to make a jet thruster effect, comprised of very stretched out particles trailing of the rim of the jet engine. Unfortunately, because the particles stretch backwards from their positions, this means that the entire particle billboard actually starts off BEHIND the particle emitter. This makes the particles actually stick out of the front of my jet engine.

    Another problem I discovered is that particle systems are culled when the particle positions are off-screen, not when the billboards are off screen. This means that if you have highly stretched particles, the entire billboard will disappear as soon as the head moves offscreen.
     
  10. WBDN

    WBDN

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    We know about this bug and will fix it.
     
  11. J_P_

    J_P_

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    is the "Max Particles" value for Shuriken not available through script..? I'm manipulating particles entirely through script, and it's annoying not being able to scale that value in code.
     
  12. Spoot

    Spoot

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    Is the Tangent Velocity effect really gone? I'm a complete beginner going through Will Goldstone's Unity 3.x Game Development Essentials book and just switched over to version 3.5 prior to adding a particle system. These big changes are making it a bigger challenge for me to learn the engine, especially if things have been completely removed instead of just relabeled and relocated (the latter being the case with other particle system settings, some of which I've figured out the new locations of).
     
  13. Django

    Django

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    The legacy system is still there if you want to learn that one. All of the controls you had in the legacy system are there in the new system but its done differently to allow for more control. However, like you have noticed, some of the settings wont have a direct equivalent setting in the new system. For the Tangent Velocity, there is no exact equivalent setting because the legacy system was restricted to an ellipsoid emitter while in the new system you can have many options as emitters. (As a side note in the legacy system the tangent velocity option did not work when using a mesh emitter but thats another story.)

    Anyways, if you want the same type of control with Tangent Velocity in the legacy system, while using a "sphere emitter", your best bet would be to use the "limit velocity over time" module and use the "separate axis" option to control velocity on specific axis of your choice. An easier option is to use a custom mesh emitter depending on how you want the particles to be emitted. This is what I usually do and works quite well. It really depends on what you are trying to do. What effect are you exactly trying to achieve ?
     
  14. andererandre

    andererandre

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    I like the new system. Good job, Shuriken improved something that desperately needed an improvement.
     
  15. Spoot

    Spoot

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    Thanks for the reply, Django.

    The effect is simple enough, but I'll let Mr. Goldstone do the talking, just so my beginner status doesn't cause me to misrepresent anything:

    It's a campfire with a vertically-oriented ellipsoid collider.

    I actually think Shuriken looks pretty nice, specifically the curve editors. I just wish, for my own purposes as a beginner, that it hadn't included the removal of anything. 'Course, maybe it was my own fault, for not reading more on the changes before I installed 3.5.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  16. Django

    Django

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    @Spoot

    Sorry I wasn't more clear but you can still use the legacy system in version 3.5 if you are planning to follow the book exactly. Create an empty gameobject in your scene. Then in the top menu, go under Components/Effects/Legacy Particles/ and make sure you add the following to your gameobject 1) ellipsoid emitter, 2) the particle animator and 3) the particle renderer. Now you can follow the tutorial with the older system and Tangent velocity is there in 3.5. :)

    As for your effect, there are a few ways to have the flames of your fire a boost out horizontally with the new system. For something like a fire, personally I'd start with a cone emitter or an hemisphere and then limiting the velocity over time so that the fire boosts more horizontally and less vertically.

    However, I would suggest recreating the effect using the legacy system first by following the book to see what the intended result is. Once the effect is done, I'm sure it will be easier to try to recreate it with the new system because you will have a result to compare it to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  17. Spoot

    Spoot

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    Note to self: Check the drop-down menus when upgrading to a new version.

    Thanks again, Django! You've made things quite a bit easier for me! :)
     
  18. crafTDev

    crafTDev

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    Is this good for iOS development?
     
  19. Django

    Django

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    Yes, it works on iOS.
     
  20. shinymark

    shinymark

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    I have some feature requests. First, some info on our project.

    Our game is presented in 2d via an orthographic camera. Depth sorting is of course very important to us, thus I need to be able to control particle systems' depth completely. In most cases this means killing all motion on the depth axis. In the old system, I could easily make the ellipsoid emitter and all velocity/forces ignore the depth axis. This isn't as easy in Shuriken.

    I have these requests:

    1. Sphere / hemisphere / cone should have 2D equivalents or ways to get that behavior. Circle, half-circle, and 2D cone (angle?). Currently box is the only built-in emitter type that can function in 2D, which is pretty limiting.

    2. Ability to constrain "random direction" to two dimensions.

    The per-axis curves for most parameters are great once the particles are spawned but I can't get them to emit the way I want.
     
  21. WillBellJr

    WillBellJr

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    I'm coming in late to the party (I just installed v3.5 last nite)...

    I got sort of a great-ish starfield particle system going for my game, and now I'm at the point where I'm trying to control the emissions though scripting.

    I'm having probs finding what's exposed and how to access the new system from scripts - can someone kindly point me to what scripting docs are available for the new particle system?

    One link I clicked sent me to a missing page (local docs)??



    I see from quickly reading and trying to catch up, not everything is exposed (yet) - I'm hoping what I need (Start Speed, Emission Rate etc.,) are exposed??


    Any pointers to the scripting docs is appreciated!

    -Will

    PS - To answer the poll, I really like the new system, however I think it can stand for a bit more polish - time along with a couple of updates will make this a hella great system within Unity!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  22. Django

    Django

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    Hi ShinyMark,

    Could elaborate more on this ? I don't understand, for a 2D orthographic game, why it would matter if the particles went in depth (z axis) since depth does not really matter when using an orthographic camera. If you leave enough room in your depth to place your particles in front or behind objects, it should work without a problem.

    Anyways, you can pretty much get the type of control you want by using the module that limits the velocity on any axis on all types of emitters.

    You can also turn on random direction and then limit the velocity on the depth axis and it will do what you are asking in #2. Granted the emitters are still 3D so they will have some depth since the particles can be spawned anywhere inside the 3D emitter.

    Otherwise if you want no depth at all you can use your own mesh to emit from it. You can easily create a shape that will not emit in depth. Even when choosing to emit randomly, you can still limit velocity on the depth axis of your mesh emitter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  23. Django

    Django

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  24. WillBellJr

    WillBellJr

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    ^Thanks, I was looking though the docs - first local then online but kept falling on the page that discusses the GUI part...

    -Will
     
  25. shinymark

    shinymark

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    Thanks for the response, Django.

    The problem with motion on the depth axis is sorting. The particles can get behind objects that they should be in front of and vice-versa.

    Also, emitting in 3D shapes causes some undesirable visual artifacts. For example, if I use the sphere emitter to create a particle system that is "sucking-in" to look like charging energy, the motion of some particles is nearly parallel to the camera's eye vector. With an orthographic camera it makes those particles look like they aren't moving, or at the very least aren't moving at the same speed as the particles moving perpendicular to the eye vector. What I really want in that case is a circle emitter so that all particles are moving perpendicular to the camera eye vector.

    You're right, I can make a bunch of emitter meshes to get the behavior I want in different situations. It's definitely less convenient but for the short term I suppose I'll have to do that.
     
  26. Django

    Django

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    If you leave enough space in-between your objects (characters, environment etc...) for the particles depth this should not be that much of a problem and you can get the particles to be in front or behind very easily. So if your character is at depth 0 your background could be depth 20. Then if you want to have your effect behind the character but in front of the background you have 20 worth of space in the depth for your particles to move in if needed.

    As for the emitter meshes, they are not that convenient for the simple reason that they can't be resized. So if you need to emit using a mesh emitter of a different size, you're stuck with having to export another version of the mesh with a different size... It can really be a trial and error thing to get the size right and it can become time consuming. Fortunately, I read that it will be possible to resize particle systems in a future version which if I'm not wrong should resize the mesh emitter along with it. That will certainly make it a lot more convenient.

    I agree that this could certainly be useful in many situations even in 3D so something like a ring shaped emitter would be great. For now, however the best solution is to make it with your own mesh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  27. shinymark

    shinymark

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    True, if we designed our game from the start to have that much space in between depth layers it could work. Unfortunately, we are way past the point of no return on this project due to the amount of assets that have already been created.

    Our characters are rigged meshes with numerous layers, with each layer separated by 1 unit on the depth axis. Hence why I want 2-dimensional emit / control on all parameters, to fit within those restrictive guidelines.

    And about scaling meshes - that's really unfortunate. I tried that earlier and noticed that but I was hoping it was user error. Having to make multiple circle meshes of varying sizes is an annoyance. I suppose I could duplicate them and use different import scale on the model to make it a bit less painful.
     
  28. shinymark

    shinymark

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    If it's useful for anyone attached to this post are two Maya files with a circle and half-circle for use as 2D emitters. I had to write a little Maya Python script to point the vertex normals in the right direction. That was a little tricky so I figured I'd share these since I took care of that.

    If you need to rescale them to fit your needs be sure to freeze their transforms first or they wont be the correct size in Unity.

    View attachment $2d-emitter-shapes.zip
     
  29. m.mario

    m.mario

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    Is there a way to edit the curves (like the velocity over lifetime curves for each axis) with exact values instead of clicking and dragging?
     
  30. numberkruncher

    numberkruncher

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    I have just started using Unity and spent a good few days tweaking the legacy particle system for my effect. Then a few days later the new version of Unity was released and I found the new particle system initially quite daunting because I had only just familiarized myself with the legacy system.

    Overall though I have found that the new system is significantly better now that I have had a chance to get used to it. The options all seem a lot different, but I do find it easier to get the effect that I want with the newer system.
     
  31. J_P_

    J_P_

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    Where do I find the shuriken demo project? I thought there were some explosion examples, but when I imported the particles package I didn't see any. (I'm not using dev preview - using the released 3.5)
     
  32. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    Why is the font size of the new particle system so unreadable small? with the new high resolution screens on the macs they were way to small, I would love to see an option to make them standard unity interface font size!
     
  33. IMTRIGGERHAPPY9

    IMTRIGGERHAPPY9

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    I love how you can make them interact with the enviroment alot more. i made a blood splatter effect in about 10 mins! its great!
     
  34. AdamWaters

    AdamWaters

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    Is there any way to reverse the direction that particles are moved?

    For example, I have an effect that I want to start out wide and end narrow, a reverse cone. Also, a sphere that pulls images inward.
     
  35. WBDN

    WBDN

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    Negative start speed should do that. :)
     
  36. shinymark

    shinymark

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    Is there a way to apply a force along the starting direction over time?

    I don't see any way of doing that. I can't enter a global force as an X/Y/Z value because the direction of each particle is different.
     
  37. shinymark

    shinymark

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    Feature request: add the ability to set the starting rotation of a particle to the angle implied by the starting direction.

    For example: I am emitting particles with a lightning bolt texture on them and I want all the billboards to point outward away from the center of the two dimensional emission circle.
     
  38. Django

    Django

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    Time to answer some questions ! Here we go !

    @m. mario
    Not right now.

    @JTown

    Get it here: http://beta.unity3d.com/3.5-preview/ShurikenExamples.zip

    @ShinyMark

    hmmm... Let me know if I don't understand the problem correctly, but the only way I think something like this is possible at the moment, is by bunching up some cube emitters. Rotate them in a way so that you can fake the circle or half circle shapes you are using and then apply different forces one each individually. Kind of tricky workaround to do, but it technically should work.

    @ShinyMark

    The way you explain this is a bit confusing for me. What you want is for the rotation of a particle to be aligned with the normal of the vertex it is emitted from ? That would be a nice feature, I second that. For now, you can use the same idea I proposed above with the cubes it should work fine for the moment.

    Another solution depends on how your texture looks like, so might not work for some effects but works great with some others. It consist in using a stretched billboard and playing with Speed and Length Scale.

    A third solution would be to have your bolt oriented in the texture itself. That works great but only if your particles stay in place and do not move away from the emitter (you'd also have to use a cube emitter with size 0). If your particles have to move away from the emitter then this technique wont work unless you animate the bolt moving away in a texture but you'll be limited by texture space. Anyways, with this technique you should be able to have different rotations for the particles but its all a trick. If the bolt is animated, you can create the illusion that the bolts are coming out of a circle emitter.

    In the end, it really depends on the effect you want to achieve.

    Oh and by the way thanks for sharing those emitters ! ^_^
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  39. shinymark

    shinymark

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    Yeah, that would probably work but would be tiresome to setup. I'll give it a try.

    Basically what I want is a single force value that can be applied along the initial direction of motion, either positive or negative. And of course controlled by a curve as well.

    That's exactly what I want. Let me show the issue visually.

    Imagine this is my mesh emitter, each red "X" is a vertex with normals pointing away from the center of the circle.

    $emitter.png

    And this is my particle texture.

    $particle-texture.png

    Here is what you get currently if you spawn a particle at each vertex.

    $what-i-get.png

    And finally, this is what I actually want.

    $what-i-want.png

    As you said, if the rotation could be set by the normal then this would be easy.
     
  40. Django

    Django

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    @ShinyMark

    Try using the stretched billboard method. I just did a quick video to show you. There are some limitations but it might be a better workaround then setting up a bunch of cube emitters.

     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  41. shinymark

    shinymark

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    Thanks Django, I appreciate the effort you put into making the video. I'll give it a shot.
     
  42. Django

    Django

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    No problem, hope this is useful for you. If your game is on iOS, the stretched billboard would also be a more efficient solution (performance wise) than the numerous cube emitters as each emitter costs one drawcall of course.
     
  43. WBDN

    WBDN

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    We have actually fixed this and batch emitter draw calls together if they have matching materials. Will be in a future version.
     
  44. Django

    Django

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    Thank you William this is great news ! You guys rock !

    Will it work when emitting meshes too ?
     
  45. shinymark

    shinymark

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    Your suggestion worked, thanks again. The only part that felt kind of like a hack is that I didn't actually want the particles to move but the stretched renderer requires that they be moving. So I set their speed to some tiny float value and it worked.

    Something else popped up while working on another system. In our game we have equipment. Some equipment is more valuable than others so we attach a particle system dynamically to it to make it look more powerful. That works fine, but equipment comes in many shapes and sizes. To make the particle system visuals more closely match the piece of equipment we want to be able to change emitter size properties in code.

    So, another feature request: the ability to change emitter bounds (and types, why not) via code. For example, changing the X and Y values of the Box emitter type.
     
  46. Muckel

    Muckel

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    @ Unity Dev's
    Request: disable Camera Facing via Script would be really great.... that you have much much more possibilities as now....

    background: i try to do a Shuriken System for Skidmarks and Slpat's Maps..
    Like if you driving with your Car on Terrain based on Speed and other nice parameters you can great emit some nice particle that have Gravity > 1 Collusion with the Ground.... and in my first Demo that seams to work but the only Problem is the Facing of the Particles....#
    maybe is there a way for a workaround to disable Facing of Particles ?
     
  47. LucidMovement

    LucidMovement

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    I finally got around to playing with Shuriken.... great job! This is great improvement and feels much closer to home. The original got the job done, but this will definitely allow us fx artists to dig in and create some goodies. I've been hoping for this for a while! A few feature thoughts for future versions... (some of these have probably been mentioned, my apologies for the duplicates)

    A ribbon beam particle render module.
    -Emits a connected stream of particles. I often use these in trails for explosions and other effects where a stretching billboard just wont cut it. Options for UV tiling or stretch from start to end, emitter type: billboard, X/Y/Z facing, cross, tube (# of sides from 3-8). Ability to add some noise and smoothing to the resulting particle ribbon is always a good thing. If you apply the motion on a per particle basis without smoothing it out with it's neighbors it tends to get funky pretty quick.

    Texture sheet animation blending modes
    -Adds the ability to choose a blending style for the texture sheet animation module. Linear, Linear Blend, Random, Random Blend. Blending here is just a basic lerp between the current frame and the next. This smooths out the transition allowing for a higher quality look without having to increase the number of frames/size of the texture sheet. This may be something that could be done in the shader alone, but I'm not really certain about that. I use this one all the time and really helps create the illusion of actual evolution off of just a few frames of animation. Great for smoke.

    Driven parameter module
    -This one allows you to drive values in a shader based on curves in the particle system. This is ridiculously useful. This was used on nearly all of the effects in the reference video provided below. I often use it to control things like texture scaling, driving a lerp for complex texture blending/morphing, rotational values, etc. Controlling it from within the particle system makes it simple to tweak on a per particle system basis as opposed to creating numerous shaders for each specific instance. More info on this here: http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/ParticleSystemReference.html#Parameter Modules Note: This would likely require the addition of a new shader node as well. I think there is a workaround now if you sample the vertex color in the shader, but I've not actually tried it.

    Influence module
    - A module that allows you to define a sphere with x radius or xyz scale at xyz location, relative to the emitter, with a force magnitude value, attenuation value, and axis rotation value. This would fix several of the issues people have mentioned about creating vortex-like rotation in the particles. Being able to push and pull particles at will is always handy. I used them a lot to create mushroom cloud-like effects. Anything along these lines would be much appreciated. Side note, these are also most useful when you are able to have multiples on the same emitter.

    Kill Volume module
    - A module that lets you define either a spherical or cubic volume for the deletion of particles that enter it or exit it. This is really handy for some effects where life/velocity/collision or any number of other factors make controlling the exact death a bit more difficult than normal. No doubt this could be scripted, but it would be nice to have it integrated into the system as an add-on module.

    - Ability to delete a sub emitter through the particle editor instead of the hierarchy...not a big deal by any means, just a bit simpler.

    - Ability to create a preset of a curve. I'll often create rather bizarre curves and it would be nice to be able to easily apply them to other values. Though, the copy/paste feature for them is really nice, thank you.

    - Curve driven scale and rotation of mesh based particles. To augment the current system you could set it up similar to Cascade. In Cascade the scale and rotation parameter values are xyz but it chooses which it ignores depending on the type of particle you have selected. So, a billboard particle uses only x, a non-uniform billboard particle would use x and y and a mesh particle would use all three.

    Camera distance fade module/emitter setting
    - Allows you to fade a particle based on its distance to the camera. This is great for reducing overdraw when wandering through a cloud of particles. I know you can use the max screen scale parameter to scale the particles, but sometimes that can ruin the look of an effect and it is more advantageous to fade them out.

    Camera offset module
    - Allows you to offset a particle towards a camera. This is really useful for doing large flares, explosions done on texture sheets and host of other random things. There are workarounds for this, but it would be a nice addition eventually.

    Cuda/Apex/Turbulence Module
    - A low priority pipe dream I'm sure, but still one can ask. :)

    Visual reference for some of the above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGf-7Z_AdOQ&feature=BFa&list=PL089D83C29EA0A70B&lf=plpp_video

    Thanks again! You made my life so much simpler.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  48. WBDN

    WBDN

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    We already have the transform scale affecting the emitter shape non-uniformly (i.e. x, y and z independently of eachother for all types). This never ended up in 3.5 but will be in a future version.
     
  49. crafTDev

    crafTDev

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    Posts:
    1,820
    Hmm, I don't think I've ever gotten a response and how good mobile can handle this particle system...anyone?
     
  50. Django

    Django

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Posts:
    120
    Come on, I did answer your question. Please don't be lazy and check back a few pages next time. Its on page 11 right after you posted your question.

    Now for a more elaborate answer : It is more optimized than the older system so it should be better performance wise. How much is hard to tell unless someone does a comparison of a same effect in an empty scene. Also with batching of emitters coming up for Shuriken it will be even better. Bottom line is that it works great on mobile. Pick Shuriken over the old one if you have the choice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012