uScript vs Playmaker

We're in doubt since the two products are very similar, therefore we would like to hear the community opinion towards these two great solutions for visual scripting in Unity. What are the biggest pros and cons of each one? Which one do you prefer and why?

 

There is no vs, as they don't even target the same thing at all, PlayMaker is an FSM editor while uScript is a 'replace text by blocks' visual scripter with no FSM support at all, so its basically impossible to get more mutually exclusive

the correct binding word there would be 'with' and you can use PlayMaker with uScript if you want.


if you want a vs, then you must do Universe vs Playmaker Universe vs uScript as it competes with both and offers more than any of the two offers feature wise

 

You can create custom FSM nodes inside uScript (and follow the FSM paradigm by yourself). Performance wise, uScript is faster than Playmaker as what it does it generates real C# code behind the scenes.

 

You can yes, but you get the same unreadable code as with normal text and graphs. It kills the cleanness playmaker has.
Also when you do it, it will be at best as efficient as PlayMaker if not worse.
If you want the full flexibility + FSM then universe is definitely the winner. High performance and massive amount of nodes including full FSM.

Also just to warn you: don't missunderstand 'generates c# code' as 'generates fast and performant code' cause it does a lot of overhead too and does not generate code that has any meaning for reusing or maintenance. It just means that it goes to any platform but thats where the benefit of this feature ends.
And that at the price that visual debugging is missing and only on the planned list although its a clear 1.0 feature for any visual coding technology as it is a feature thats vital for non master coders to even find out bugs in the flow and a feature that both Universe and PlayMaker offer while uScript is still lacking it.

 

in term of easy to get in , and coding side how you can manage to implement your own stuff , i think playmaker is good , do not know much about vizio, nor uScript , did not get a chance to use it really.

so maybe for non coder PM seem to be a more simple approach..maybe ..^^

anyway it eat a lot of mono heap when on iOS ...can really climb skyrocket if you start to multiply a lot of Fsm node ( do some AI stuff along several Fsm multiply by X number of entity and well XD..).. in your project ..contrary to what you will get with regular script..so well..as many other will say, this is a trade off ..

I did not test it back since latest update tho , so maybe this got better on this part by now.

 

I don't use neither Playmaker or uScript, but i've tested both of them to prototype some gameplay ideas. Playmaker does a lots of reflections and runtime allocations/generation for their graphs, uScript generates c# code on the back, and it was faster for me. I've made my own FSM implementation and it works miles faster than any visual system out there.

 

Universe is much powerful in any cases or comparisions

 

And it's free.

 

the 'lite' one is free, there is a payed one too.
So on that end neither of them is that different especialy as uscript is in public open beta

 

My 2 cents

PlayMaker offers a higher level, state machine structure that helps non-programmers build interesting interactive behaviors. You can sketch out a flow using plain English States (On, Off, Open, Closed, Idle, Attacking, Defending, Dead...) and plain English Events (turnOn, turnOff, attack, lostTarget, hitByEnemy...), building a clearly legible diagram of the high level behavior. Then you can add Actions to each State - essentially just like Behaviours in the Unity Inspector, but tied to a State; if you can use the Unity Inspector, you can use PlayMaker!

PlayMaker focuses on making the development, testing and maintainance of these state machines as user friendly and accessible as possible.

In my experience making rapid development tools for cross disciplinary teams, a visual state editor seems to be the sweet spot for the whole team. Non-programmers can create interactive content without learning low level programming principles, and programmers can make new components without worrying about artists/designers making spaghetti code that they'll eventually have to re-write (visual coding is still coding). The idea is to empower each discipline to do what they're good at - not to have them doing each others' jobs (badly)!

So PlayMaker is not meant to turn an artist into a coder - it's designed to empower an artist to realize their creative vision WITHOUT coding! Although we also have a lot of programmers use it just because it's a fun way to develop!

Anyway, those are the design principles that drive the development of PlayMaker...

I also think PlayMaker works quite well with other visual scripting tools, e.g., the uScript guys have successfully made PlayMaker Actions using uScript, something I look forward to exploring further with them soon!

 

And it comes complete with the most fascinating user manual you'll ever see.

 

Well to be honest, the one of the reasons i stopped working with Playmaker (Rain and others awesome unity extensions) is because i hate having critical parts of my project (in this case AI behaviors) depending on external plugins (specially when they don't come with sources). I really hate to lose control, or encounter bugs that i cannot fix my self. I always want to control the inner deeps of my projects and what's really hapening behind every single system that i code. There's also others reasons as speed and runtime allocations problems, none of them can beat small hardcoded and well designed FSM system.

 

As a designer, who likes to pretend to code, I've realized that the manual for universe is really just the unity reference... ... and thats a good thing I think.

 

Totally agree with this vision and there is more to game development (or development of any kind) than control and performance. Such issues as code clarity, maintainability and productivity have as huge an impact as any other aspects, although trade-offs have to be made at every stage.

The only issues so fare are with detailed documentation. You guys could improve the documentation, add more detailed tutorials and have better support for Javascript to ease the learning curve of new adopters.

Cheers

 

When I first started using PlayMaker, I loved it - I was able to get a 2D game I was toying around with up and going WAY FASTER than if I had coded it the normal Unity way.

Opt'd to buy uScript as well and now I'm loving that also - a different take on Unity programming, not related to FSMs at all - I love uScript also.

What I'm hoping to see, as a lot of other folks have requested is a synergy develop between the two scripting systems!

To be able to call uScripts from PlayMaker states would be hella awesome and vice versa.

In fact I'm loving the power these two visual scripting systems bring to Unity - at one point I was wishing I could develop my mainstream Windows applications at work using Unity with these visual systems but I would at least need my basic Windows Forms widgets etc., before I could get anywhere on that front. (I can't see myself trying to make a native Unity TreeView or ComboBox control for example - ugh!)

But I can envision some really nice desktop applications all coded in a nice visual way - powerful stuff!

-Will

 

I've yet to really dive into it but I bought uScript .. . it seemed to me playmaker would let you handle various states and so on which is probably okay mostly but it seemed uScript is a more general development tool which will let you do a lot more. The user interface is really nice and easy to understand.

 

what about universe is it compatible with unity? i ask because im a beginning programmer and this could help me to get mockups running and then i can correct and redo code as needed. my main question is this. does it add to much junk code? and can it call from other pre existing code to keep the coding minimal?

 

Assuming you're talking about the documentation for Vizio, where on God's green earth is this documentation. All I could find after hunting around for hours was a bunch of low quality videos without sound, not good enough for a product that cost $150.

IMHO PlayMaker is the tool of choice and uScript looks good but haven't used it yet and I hear that PlayMaker and uScript will play together well in the near future.

Paul

 

Hence, the word fascinating.

 

I'm waiting for Universe to get its docs together as well before I bother trying to use it - I'm a stickler about documentation.
I would even posit that UT should place a standard on its Asset Store developers that they have to match the standard that Unity has set with its own documentation.

I'm very pleased with PlayMaker, uScript and ex2D tools and their level of support documentation. Moving forward you won't see me buying it, unless it at least matches the standard these other folks / companies have set.


PlayMaker is awesome and as I stated earlier, when I started using uScript, it was a refreshing difference from PlayMaker. Not so much that it was better, but it was just a different approach - and just as >liberating< as PlayMaker.

They both do very well with what they do - hence the typical "hey I want both PlayMaker and uScript in my peanut butter..."

The fact that I can program my games now using C#, Javascript and visually using PM or uS to me makes Unity a hella powerful development platform PERIOD! That's sort of why I wished I could even develop desktop apps with it.

I would love to use Unity to develop a multimedia video player app - where I can open multiple video windows; slide the panes around (let'um snap together or bounce off each other using physics), rotate and resize them with ease etc.


Prob is, Unity isn't a very flexible video player (only a few formats supported. I need the full gamut of video formats like what KMPlayer supports for example) and Unity also want to load each video, I need them streamed (not too many systems can handle opening 12 windows of 1.5gig .mp4 video files etc.)

Still, I see serious potential moving forward with Unity and these scripting systems - as Unity get more powerful, I can imagine, the type of apps I can develop will expand as well!

-Will

 

all these systems excite me as well, they're great exploratory tools for learning principals of coding, as well as getting things made fast.

I know the documentation situation for universe is not that great, theres some pretty good video tutorials that were made(little big tutorial) but it's not comprehensive compared to the other systems, BUT I find that universe has taught me the most allowing me to extend coding skills to other engines and languages.

 

My experience with UScript been pretty negative when it comes to putting a game together. Lack a documentation makes for a running blind experience.

 

I like playmaker FSMs for making on/off (Hold) state buttons and how easy it is to insert movies / audio / movement into the slots within the FSM states without giving coding much thought

When the sophistication of using the tool begins to look as complex as programming despite using flow charts or whatever interfaces i pause and wonder if i can ever produce the results from the tool that one envisions, Has nothing to do with a tools capability (per say) but everything to do with with my eventual understanding. Universe scares me because i think i will be to stupid too leverage such a powerful tool.

Sorry for not staying on topic with the uscript vs playmaker debate

 

I'll admit IMO, nothing matches PlayMaker's docs - I was able to learn how to create my own actions and stuff in PM very easily once I got the hang of it and started attempting more advanced stuff.

uScript docs are still in flux but IMO again, is better than Universe's (based upon my initial look though, getting pointed to soundless videos etc.)

I can understand when a program is still in beta and stuff is constantly changing, just PLEASE, release finalized docs WHEN the programs go v1.0 - don't have users needing to search though forum posts or watch youtube videos! (Videos are great for showing advanced techniques and specific use cases, not as mainline documentation!)


I was a bit frustrated with uS at one point when I couldn't figure out why my external connectors weren't working when trying to create some nested nodes.

I posted on the forum and got help (the info was on the 1st page of documentation, I was looking in the advanced sections of the manual - doh, and searching the forums.

I will say I HATE searching forums for information, I don't particularly like web based documentation either (I prefer a PDFs) but UT has set such a high standard with their online docs for Unity, I can live with it, especially when the quality is that good!

Basically I just hate following a link for a function (that you happen to really need info on) to end up on an empty page that hasn't been fleshed / edited yet!

Ultimately I'd still prefer to see Unity add-ons match Unity's documentation style so that it's a seamless experience when using Unity and the add-on!



As far as using uScript, I haven't tried to create a complete game with it, I love it for adding intelligence to my individual game objects etc., - their videos show great examples of these cases.


I would use PlayMaker to control my game states while I'd have uS controlling the functioning of my game objects.


Ultimately I'd like to call uS functionality from PlayMaker (and at other times call PM from uS when I'd like my objects to have states also...)


-Will

 

Which I'd like to know, does playermaker documentation or official tutorials cover making a full game, or does it only cover "press spacebar to start run around and look for switches" method without covering important things like main menus and ending levels?

Plus do you have experience with brain builder?

 

I haven't done any coding for a week or so after my initial playing around with PM and uS (I'm at the stage now where I need to get my >artwork< to catch up now with my coding capabilities with these new tools!)

But from what I remember with PMs docs, they didn't cover creating a full game (new tuts may have been added in the short time I've stepped away from coding, dunno?)


Frankly I don't know if they need to though?

It would be nice if they did, and I'd say you can certainly contact them and suggest such a tutorial but I think you should just dive in, absorb the training that is provided and see where your ideas take you from there.

Once you understand PM and are >comfortable< using it, that's where IMO, the artistry comes in - your creativity will spark and you'll get ideas on what you'd like to accomplish and take it from there.

I'd be interested in a tut on managing the major game states; controlling menus, option selections, switching scenes etc., but that sounds like a huge topic, and with my current comfort level with PM I believe I could accomplish that once I get to that point where stuff like that is needed with my game (I'm still prototyping game play and subsystem behaviors...)

As an exercise for myself, when I was first learning PlayMaker (and ex2D), I decided I would take my old GameMaker's Apprentice book and try and convert the "Dragon" game they had you work through to Unity PM.

For me I found when try to match Game Maker's logic blocks it was easier for me to create my own custom action nodes to simplify things - which led me to more a advanced usage of PM which was a good learning experience.

I guess I'm saying all this to say I don't know if they need to show you HOW to make a complete game, but just teach you how to fish as it were and show you best practices on how to use PlayMaker to accomplish certain things.

The docs on the various nodes helps you to choose what to use but you still need to understand a good bit of Unity to know what you need to use and why in the first place...

The ideas do start to flow once you get the hang of PM. The artistry come in at that point also because there's usually more than >one way< to accomplish something so given a task with PM, two programmers would most likely implement the PM graphs differently to accomplish the same goal.

Sometimes you'll get something working and then realize later there may be a better or more flexible way to accomplish it and redo your graph - that happens pretty often also.

If you're looking for tuts to show these things before you buy in then all I can say is make your tut requests pronto cause you're missing out! (I don't remember if there's a PM trial or not), if there is, you should definitely be playing with it right now!

I certainly don't regret my purchase of PM one bit!

-Will

 

As for game states tutorials that would be a bigger reason to get it, but money is tight right now.

From what I remembered, I message one of the playmaker devs on here, and they mentioned either trial or non commercial was going to be released, but haven't said when it will be released. 100 dollars for something I haven't tried isn't what I have in mind.

 

Hi, I can appreciate your concern plopping down cash sight unseen - I typically buy wares like this on Paypal credit and then resolve the bills over time.


I realized I forgot to answer your questions about Brain Builder - that also seems like a good tool to have for game object controllers, but having PM and uS, I haven't been pressed any to try it out - the graphs look a little strange to me as well, that's prolly another reason why I haven't bit yet.

I see there is a demo so there's actually no excuse not to take a gander I guess. I've just been busy brushing up on my ZBrush texturing and reading Sue Blackman's Unity development book...

-Will

 

...I tried galaxies cause you usually seem to be ahead of the game. I gotta say though, I absolutely loath it's setup, kinda hard to read/see (even though you can set your own skins, but that's more time wasted)

I really like uScript, it's setup pretty nice and seems to work for what I need (for now anyway) BUT with that being said, it also just hard crashed my entire projects file. Sooooooo, pointless as this comment may be. I guess I should have listened.

 

As an artist who knows absolutely nothing about coding, I find Playmaker to be awesome. Not only the add-on itself, but also the community and support.