pro users forum section

I would welcome forum private section for PRO users. People who bought unity are not kids, they usually have some money and doing serious games. So such subforum will contain far more information and less stupid questions, good information will be not burried under tons of garbage.

 

And than us actualy serious learners, who dont have pro , would get no help , and no information , because you would hide in a pro forum, so the public forums might as well be closed .

 

Yea, been asked many times before. The answer from UnityTeam was pretty much no.

Its a good thing anyways, because all of the people who genuinely need help wouldn't get it as all the helpers would be in the pro.

 

Like Killer said, it's been frequently requested but so far UT doesn't seem to favor the idea. Personally I think we Pro / paying customers deserve (at the very least) a separate forum where we can ask questions and expect a reasonably quick answer from a UT staff member.

 

There already is such a thing...

http://unity3d.com/support/premium-support/

The bottom line is , that if all Pro users had their own dedicated forum , than us new guys learning and catching up with free version - would not get anywhere , cause not one of you would take the time to visit the regular forums. And this is why i highly doubt unity will do it. They will leave it as is, with premium support only.

After all , isnt the entire premise behind unity to be a indie friendly, hobbiest , pro. multi suiting tool? That kinda leans toward keeping the forums the same way ?

 

The pro user sub-forum would be read-only, giving those who genuinely need help incentive to actually search for their answers.

 

What happens when the question the freebie has isn't answered on either forum? Nothing, they don't get an answer.

 

That and possibly encourage people to buy the Pro version. There really isn't a down side for Free users, they still would have access to the same forums and forum members as they currently have. They just wouldn't have posting privileges on the Pro forums.

After plunking down $1000 a year for Pro I think I deserve some sort of after sales support from UT. It's great that people like Eric, Dreamora, and others are here to give a hand (and are willing to do it for free), but UT really needs to step up to the plate to support their paying customers. Otherwise what's the reason to continue paying for it? For me the half dozen additional features I need and get for $1000 is becoming more expensive every year. Especially when 3rd party add ons are available that offer nearly the same features. I can't think of any other product that costs that much that doesn't come with some sort of after sales support. From my perspective a dedicated forum with UT assistance is the least they can do.

 

Reasons I have the Pro version:
1. Remove the UT splash screen

And uh... that's it. From a business and marketing standpoint it is all about the branding, especially when dealing with clients who don't want to see it. Very unprofessional. Though reason 2 is about to pop up when I start integrating some custom input controller into the current project and I need to load a non-.NET DLL.

Reasons I am on the forums:
1. To troll the genuinely clueless and generally act unprofessional because it's not a professional forum.

Would I be the way I am on a paid-for forum or a "limited to Pro" forum? Do I act like this on the Epic professional support forum? Or the Havok support forum? Or SCEA? Hell no! I cannot get my genuine support questions, few as they are, answered on these unpaid for forums and Unity Technology has given me no reason or incentive to pay them extra money or any indication of how much it'll cost to directly ask them questions.

In essence, Unity's support is absolutely lousy, no matter which way you cut it.

 

If i had the money, i would most definately be buying unity pro, but with a wife , 3 kids, and a life ina crappy lil town in the middle of the canadian great nowhere ... im a lil limited atm. That said , if i get the chance ever i will be purchasing it, but i can not see me purchasing it until i have a foot in the door with one of my projects, or via other oppurtunity. But because i cannot afford it yet, (or maybe ever) doesnt mean i am not interested in bettering myself as a hobbiest student of this great industry.

Well, the thing is here, i have searched many many many times for answers to issues i have, google is my friend. Be it here , google , wherever , but people speak with different words. Sometimes the exact same issue i have had , someone else has had , but the topic name , is nothing even remotely close to the same. Its just a language thing. Theres always gonna me multiple threads relating to each other anywhere ya go. I agree, some dont read ever, just post, and than prolly dont even read the posts after *they* post. Not my poblem , people are people, look at the world much?

Lol, anyways , honestly , either way unity decided to go, i dont think it would affect *me* so much, but it would really suck if all you *Pro* owners went to a private forum and didnt visit us little guys sometimes.

 

Exactly, and when it came down to it, this is probably how it would end up in the end.

 

This presumes that none of the Pro users are willing to post on the free forums. It is also based on the presumption that indie users are entitled to support. Unity need to either put someone on the free forums answering the true support questions or provide a venue, even if it is paid, and what the costs are, clearly and upfront, for Pro users. We're about to drop cash for two more Pro licenses at the end of the month for the new programmers coming on-board. $3K for software that has no support. Whoop whoop.

 

I 100% Agree with you if this is indeed the case, that Unity has no support setup for Pro users. I am assuming that the Premium support is not for pro users , but is actually a seperate paid service, in essence study tutor service? As we all know by now , i dont own pro , or have premium support , so im unsure of either. But in response to this ...

The part i chuckled about was the keyword "presumes". Thats a bet that if someone was playin bookie on , i would be placin large. human mentality is a pretty predictable thing in "most" cases, and outside of the forum moderators that are pro users, i think its fair to say, the other pro users would all but dry up almost completely here.

EDITED : just like to change the term "Human mentality" to "Herd Mentality", in this context , more or so what i was leaning @.

 

@willc - I think you're forgetting that the vast majority of users here are using the Free version. That goes not only for people who ask questions but also for people who answer questions and develop 3rd party assets (free or otherwise). It would benefit Pro users to continue to monitor and participate in the "Free" forums otherwise we risk missing out on some good stuff that might become available. And for those Pro users who develop assets their biggest market will always be the Free version users.

Unfortunately, as was said when this thread started, this topic has come up many times before but UT has chosen not to take action in this direction. I personally think that's a mistake, but it's their decision to make. When the next $1000 update comes along, I may not opt to buy it. For the half dozen features that Pro gives me that I wouldn't get with the Free version, it will be hard to justify (especially when some of those features have become available through 3rd party add ons). In years past the decision to buy the update was a "no brainer", I just did it. But next year will likely be different.

 

Exactly. Unity support suck. Terribly suck. I understand, that nobody cares for free users, because these people are 99% kids and cheapskates and they are obiviuosly not doing serious games, because serious game cant be made without pro. Who wants just toy, he is happy with free and he doesnt need any support. But once I am paying cca $1000 a year, I expect at least polite reply when reporting bug, not just total ignorance.

 

This is demagogic. Having some private section with devolopement team as support for paying users works very well. Even from marketing point of view, lots of people buy licence exacly because of such support.

 

Generally they are giving support for AAA companies who are paying them $ millions a year, they ignore pro users and of course free users. I remember, when developement team was active on these forums and helping people. And now? Nobody cares, they are not even polite enough to reply you on bug report. Just pay us $1500 for pro and shut up.

 

Trust me I won't help you if you ask the wrong questions, pro or no pro. It won't make ANY difference how much help I give people regardless of the pro forum. The pro forum would be to talk about pro related features, console development and higher monetary things without being barraged with people begging for $99 unity.

It won't affect how much I help people. Don't know why you think it would.

I have been hinting to unity for a while that mobile and desktop unity pro needs stronger reasons. Currently, there's very little reason to upgrade for a lot of people.

By stronger, I mean some seriously cool mobile effects like those new lights for mobile being pro only or something. That would justify people's faith in upgrading to pro.

A lot of people moan about the price of pro being too high, not because the price is too high but the perceived value is too low.

 

I have commonly available non-middleware software tools installed on my workstation coating upwards of $6,000. I know artists who have similarly priced packages. This isn't to brag, it is to point out that the price of unity is mostly irrelevant if you are using it professionally to make profit.

And I agree about the offering of help. Most of the time I am not interested in helping out because the question is poorly phrased or incoherent or google would have provided an answer in 30 seconds. Ask an interesting and proper question, I will gladly answer it.

 

Genius.

 

Yea , i dunno , theres a lot of very valid good points to all sides here. I will say though , that as far as unity goes in providing and presenting useable information and documetnation, they are definately getting a thumbs up from me. I started on UDK , and eventually came to find unity because although the documentation is there for other engines , none seem to have it wrapped up as nicely and completely as unity does. Unity makes it much easier for us beginners than most of the others.

That being said , as a new guy , sometimes all the technical jargon in the world doesnt matter in a reference document if you have misread , misinterpretted, etc. Thats where i rely on you guys all Cmon, how many people have found themselves reading the same line of a book a few times before they made the connection "something aint right here".

Either way , good points all, nice to see this maintained a level of decency and maturity as well.

~Will.

 

Premium Support isn't free for Unity Pro users. Its mainly for Unity Console Developers from larger studios.
Read below for detail:

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/73995-Premium-Support


All Unity Pro users get is email support, and forum. Same as everyone else.

 

THAT, IS JUST SPOT ON! MATE YOU NAIL IT.

I think that's exactly why people are asking for $99 Unity Pro.

I think in all the game engines I have seen that offers tier pricing, Unity stands out for being very generous - offering up to 90% of functionality of Pro version. If it had been reverse like Basic only get 10% of Pro's functionality, I don't think anyone would actually be making those absurd "$99 Unity Pro" requests.

As for the idea of a Pro forum, I for one also support it.
As a matter of fact, I support the idea of a Unity Free user's forum, and put every one of them Unity Freeloaders there! UT obviously got their priority wrong, the paying customers are lumped with non-paying whining teenagers who can't read or write or even do basic googling which is an insult to the paying customers.

This new thread just above this one is a shiny example why UT needs a Unity Free forum and put all Unity Free users there.
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/103284-Unity-Vs.-Cryengine-3

 

LOL @ that post you linked to Bawss. Cant defend anything one would say against that, but ...

And again i say, theres some very valid points here, i feel for ya guys, but not "all" of us free users are whining about unity. IMO that kinda defies the point of even being here using any version if your complaining about it. Find some new tools i would think.

 

This is merely a suggestion, and I expect the various merits and issues to be debated: How about a Unity Pro forum for the Pro users, but the Indie users can access it by paying a nominal amount per year to access it. Say, $99, they get access to the Pro forum, they get to ask their questions, they get read and write access, they're not excluded, but it cuts out about 99% of the people who want everything for free.

 

And the difference is?
You might realize that those who would want such a board won't help "newbies" anyway, so the difference to you or anyone else without Pro is pretty low, but the difference to those with a pro license though is far higher, as that means that the board offers a reason to visit it with much higher quality knowledge on average, a thing thats otherwise not needfully granted going by the serious progress in "piling the same trash more and more regularly" just cause nettiquette forbids the usage of simple things like RTFM and 'The search helps you' and cause the board lacks 15+ moderators to close every such thread right at the start (and yes, about 55-70% of all new questions would be covered if people read the documentation and looked at the provided examples, as for example near every single network question since mid 2010 has shown where people could have simply looked at the networking example and would have found the answer)

I originally requested that a "beginner board" is introduced, was smashed for a similar reason, "2 level world" where beginners might not get the attention they want. Out of my view it worked with 50k unity users, perhaps 100k, but its shooting towards 1M now and it just is required that we finally get a clear seperation of "the same S*** everyday" thread content vs meaningfull developer relevant questions cause the board search is worlds from solid and with these two types of content both sitting in the scripting board, it really degenerated to "useless" for anyone searching for answers. This impacts even "serious learners" as they will only find the trash flood and barely the real stuff (I've to fire up DevonAgent and generate some 3 figure MB amount for web harvesting of information to get anywhere commonly on topics I need to search answers).

 

And assumes only Pro users know anything?

Hello?

As a non-pro user who has helped pro users to the extent of being remunerated...

----


I've got no strong feelings either way. But considering there are a number of paying customers complaining about support a indy-read-only 'support' section makes a lot of sense for everybody involved.

 

I think you are creating an ad hominem argument. The statement is not what you are, or what you have done, but whether paying customers are entitled to support and whether paying customers should be given a venue that permits them to interact with other paying customers and the Unity support team in an environment with better SNR than what we currently have.

 

There is so much webspace out there in the net, why don`t you open a Pro forum by yourself when you need one so badly? When there is really this much demand then your Pro only forum will grow very quick.

The goal of a community is to have one community, not separated fractions. And no matter if i am a customer with the Pro version or a customer with the standard version, i am a customer. The code stays the same in most cases, the problems stays the same in most cases. So there`s no sense to separate the two fractions.

 

Sorry, but neither Pro nor Free users get "email support", you only get that with their "Premium Support". The only technical support that is included with a Pro license is via the forums / Unity Answers / Unity Feedback which are almost entirely supported by other users. The only time UT staff gets involved is during new product/features announcements or to lock a wayward thread.

 

My point wasn't that I want to divide the "community" but rather that I want some company provided after sales product support. After all, Pro users spend $1,500 to use the software and then continue to pay $1000 / year to update their license. The only support that is included with your purchase is that provided on the forums, which is almost 100% user supported. I can't think of any other product I've ever bought, especially in that price range, that didn't include some sort of company provided after sale support.

 

Clarification: I'm saying that killer1390's argument that the 'freebies' wouldn't get any help at all is garbage... because it presumes only 'pro' owners provide help.

 

You look at it from the wrong angle. The "Pro" forum already exists. It is the current forum. It`s just that the "Free" users can participate too. Which is a good thing. Because even a free user can have the answer for a pro question. And a free user may become a pro user in the future. Or do some viral marketing so that somebody else does. And as told, no matter if Pro users or Basic users, they all are users. Trying to divide the community is not only discriminating, but bad for both sides.

 

Let's not overstate things. Just to be clear, you pay $750 per major update. Typically major updates are approximately every 3 years. So that comes to about $250/year. (Excluding sales...a lot of people paid $500 for the last update, so that's $167/year.)

--Eric

 

S i g n a l t o n o i s e r a t i o k k t h x !

 

Pretty sure in one of the email after I bought it they say you get email support. I will have to dig through my emails.

 

err... you're right. The updates are $750, thanks for correcting me, but they have been coming out nearly every year, not every 3 years as you've stated. Irregardless, if UT provided the same level of technical support that you give to your customers that buy Fractscape for $29, I'd have nothing to complain about.

 

Not at all. Unity 1.0 was released June 2005, Unity 2.0 was released October 2007, and Unity 3.0 was released in late September 2010. So that's 2.33 years for the first update, and a few days short of 3 years for the second.

Irregardless isn't a word, and Fractscape is $20. But thank you.

--Eric

 

On the topic of being correct: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless

It's a word! got you Eric *goes off to dance*

 

Actually, I completely forgot about competent free users. Sorry. I completely take back all that was said. Although I am still against a pro only section.

 

Erroneous words don't count as words.

--Eric

 

All I can say about it is that there's too much garbage on the forums.

Maybe a forum where you don't need to have Unity Pro, but need to pass through an automatic exame, answering some few questions in order to be able to participate into the forum, otherwise all you can do is read through it.
If you have not enough knowledge about Unity's overall functionality it means you have to first read the docs/research/whatever, you than may come back latter, when you have enough brain to not flood the forum with stupid questions and stupid statements.

 

He's spoiled my little victory dance.

 

I can agree with this very easily actually. Although the exam would need to change every few days, or just multiple exams.

 

It was for the greater good...a dancing hippo is just not something that should generally happen, sorry.

--Eric

 

+ 1 @ topic
Maybe this forum could work the way that only "Pro"-customers are allowed to create new threads. However anyone would be welcome to reply, to discuss or to ask for elaboration on the topic...
One could also introduce a system where any user would be able to achieve "pro" status via a reward system.

Of course such a forum would be really useful if those threads would get special attention from Unity staff.

 

Yeah, or maybe you have to pay a dollar for every posting. So that you think twice if you post garbage. Or what about when others mark your posting more than 20 times as moron post then you have to pay a moron penalty.

Or even better, you need to have 20 commercial games running already to proof that you know what you are doing. Well yeah, you don`t really need support anymore when you have 20 finished games at your list, but hey, no more moron posts !!! 111 !!!

Or you need to sleep with one of the admins before you are allowed to post something. Or ...

*/Ironicmode off*

A support forum for customers should be a support forum for all customers. And it`s especially the beginners who needs most support. I´ve seen lots of talented guys grown up from the almighty "i want to make a MMO" kids without clue to useful game developers over the years. It`s just a thing of how you deal with that. To block a whole, and the even bigger, fraction of customers is surely the wrong way.

For garbage postings, which is always the number one argument when it comes to a Pro forum here, i have surely another idea what a garbage post is than you guys here (Needless to say that for me this whole thread is such garbage i guess ^^) . It`s the nature of a support forum that especially the beginner questions gets repeated again and again. That is what a support forum is mainly good for. Help when you want to help, and when not ignore the thread. That easy.

And to repeat myself, when you really think that a Pro forum is needed this badly, then go and create one by yourself. Webspace isn`t this expensive anymore. There are even free forum hosters out there. And you even have full controll then which morons are allowed to participate and which ones not.

 

cus·tom·er Noun/ˈkəstəmər/
1. A person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or other business.

All Unity users may be members of the Unity user community, but unless they paid for a license to use the product, they aren't customers.

As I see it, the topic has separated into two arguments:

1. That a separate "Pro" forum would help isolate professional users from non-relevant threads (to the extent that we'd have a place where only Unity relevant topics would be discussed), and
2. That a separate "Pro" forum would give paying customers more direct access to UT technical support.

I'm in favor of a separate forum because of reason #2. Since this is my only avenue for after sales product support, then I think since I paid for the product I should get some sort of after sales support from the company that I bought it from.

 

Tiles, Unity public forum is like the public facility - the ones who contributed and paid for Unity Pro are like the ones who financed the construction of it - we all have invested some significant resources and thus we have vested interest to see it become better. Those who didn't contribute to it, have no vested interest in it, and usually treat it as public toilet. They often demand Unity Pro to be free because of selfish, short sighted interest (The "who cares if Unity Technology go bankrupt, as long as I get my Unity Pro for free, the rest I don't care" mentality).


Making ALL of the forum available for posting for free users also means spammers get free pass. I have seen countless posts by spammers who spam the forum to peddle their iPhone/iPad softwares that were NOT made in unity, or people who just posts in forum to peddle their services (usually from India).

All we want as paying customers - is to see this forum (as only direct contact to Unity support) to become better. Is it too much to ask?


So what I am proposing, is to make the forum Unity Pro only - If you are not a paying customer, you can still view the forum, but you are not allow to post in the forum except in the Unity Free section. This is actually standard practice in many software forums where they keep a tiny section for the free users while the rest of the forum are only accessible to paying customers.

So, if you are serious enough to be part of the real community, you will go get a job, buy Unity Pro, and be part of the real community. If you are not serious, you can stay in the kiddies forum.This will significantly weed out the advertising spammers, trolls, and idiots.

 

Ah, the good old selfish argument. Who is selfish here? Who wants to kick somebody off the forum, calling all Non Pro users morons, not worth to post something useful or to contribute anything good, just good to post rubbish?

Once again you forget that Unity has grown this big because of the FREE version. Without the free version Unity would still be one of many engines. To say that the free users haven`t contributed anything, and needs to be blocked therefore, is simply wrong. Unity history has already proven the opposite. It`s the free users that has made Unity big. And everybody who doesn`t see this fact needs some big glasses.

It is simply wrong to block the free users because it is Unity`s business idea to provide a free version. That`s what made Unity big at all. A free user is nevertheless a customer. No matter if he has paid for Unity or not.

And one more for selfish, i provide free game graphics since more than 10 years. I´ve also been a admin for a small game making community for also nearly 10 years for another tool. I even already contributed a little Unity project that gets downloaded very regularly. I`ve helped zillions of people over the time. Now call me selfish again young man. And what did you do for a community so far besides posting nonsense in nearly every thread where i read your name, offending newbies and discriminating Unity Basic users?

You think too short as usual. The one you help could be the one you may need when you need help.

Back at twisting and ignoring facts as usual? I never said i want the Pro for free. And if Unity goes bancrupt is in Unity`s hands. So i don`t need to care at all. Unity`s heads are grown big enough to do their own decisions.

There are even business models where i could think of a free Pro version too by the way. Selling the product directly is not the only way to make money with. Funny that i as a hobbyist needs to tell it to you as the businessman.

Making a Pro forum would definitely be a step in the wrong direction. That`s for sure.

Even Unity free users buys in the assets store. Funny but true. Now what are they? Still thieves, or already customers?

Besides that, quoting out of context is a dangerous thing.To quote a bit more Wikipedia: